Adjusting Right Angle swing away binder

[bobbin]

I bought one of these several months ago and have tried to adjust it (unsuccessfully, so far!) on and off since then. 

Here's the problem:  I am using 3/4" standard acrylic double fold bias binding but I still can't get the the stitching to catch the lower half of the binding on an outside curve.  I spoke with my local mechanic and he suggested levelling out the folder which I've tried.  The idea is that levelling out the folder allows slightly more binding to be fed through on the bottom.  The result is better, but it is still not catching the lower portion of the binding.  I am trying to bind 2-3 layers of sunbrella and I know this should be easily within the capability of the binder because I used to use one in another shop I worked for; it's pretty standard fare in marine canvas construction. 

I have tried using a binder foot with the set up, but it doesn't make any difference, the trouble seems to be within the folder... any bright ideas from any of you?  I really don't want to package it up and send it back and forthe to the supplier if it's something I can figure out on my own, but I may just have to admit defeat and do that.  It just seems like a waste of everyone's time. 

[JuneC]

Maybe open up the binder a bit with a flat-head screwdriver so the binding feeds easier?  Maybe pull some binding through the right-angle part at the beginning of a curve and feed it into the needle path manually?  I'd guess that the bias is stretching just enough on the curve to cause the binding to narrow and then the needle misses.   I love bias binding, but I've found that it gets seriously narrower if your start pulling on it.  Have you tried this binder with straight-cut double fold?  I'd guess it doesn't happen.

Having said all that, I've given up on my right-angle binder because there's just too much drag on the binding.   Sunbrella binding doesn't like to make a right-angle turn then fold back on itself.  It's way too stiff, in my experience. 

June

[bobbin]

Good thoughts, June.  I've not tried the straight cut binding as it never rounds curves nicely, at least in my experience.  But for purposes of experimentation I'll see if I can't scrounge some up and see if it helps. 

I've used this same type of binder before, with bias 3/4 acrylic binding and it worked like a charm.  But that was many years ago and it was already adjusted for the machine and the goods so the "learning curve" wasn't part of the equation. 

I will look more closely and see if the binding is not feeding through the folder easily, it seems easy enough to feed through when I start it, but you may be right about that.  Back to the drawing board.  :)  thanks!

[Mike8560]

I've got one but don't use it
I saw the lady at the palmetto school zipping away with what I thought was sunbrella
but thenway it folds vsckwrds lime June says it just drags sommuchnincsnt see how it could work.  It allot easier with chepo binders   

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

I've long wondered how poeople can get away with selling things to people that don't work.  I know I can't. 

[baileyuph]

Precision binding capability on automotive and marine requirements is a custom requirement.  One that requires the binding head to be made of machined steel.  Not the soft metal that can be bent with a screw driver.

From previous contacts with services that provide such equipment, I learned that not only does the steel binder head have to be machined for the specific materials used, the feed dogs, pressure plate and feet required for demanding operations are mated to the requirement, just as the binder head is.

Sometimes a customer can get lucky and the off the shelf equipment may work well enough.  However for some binding requirements, they usually don't work well enough. 

We in the auto trim who perform original type binding on some items, for example, sunvisors of many years ago cannot meet our requirements except through the speciality engineering providers.  

There comprehensive services, machining, testing to verify results will cost considerably more.

Binders can be made to work as proven by review of what manufacturers have done and done well for over 50 years now.  For sure, they did not use off the shelf equipment made of soft metal that can be bent with screw drivers.  

Folder requirements by contrast are less demanding making those attachments more satisfactory.

Just my limited experience talking and perhaps someone else has a different one.

Doyle

[fragged8]

funny this cam up Bobbin, i just dug out a binder for 7/8 sunbrella center fold.

I have tried different binders on and off for a couple of years with very mixed
success.
Mostly I use one for straight runs only but even then i find the binding doesn't
always cover the edge of the material correctly.

It has to be the way i'm doing it ?

Rich

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

DB had it correct up front.  He is talking about a comparison between a generic piece of sheet metal bend and soldered, as opposed to a custom single piece steel folder costing substantially more.

I love threads like this as I can learn a lot and share a lot when it comes to folders and attachments, and what people's perceptions are, other than what they tell me, or don't tell me!

To play off of DB's post, NO two machines are the same, NO two attachments are the same, and NO two operators sew the same.  This is even BEFORE we get into the binding material and goods being sewn!  What may be the best attachment in the universe for one may be unusable for another, even though the attachments work correctly, as intended.

Thankfully, it's been a few months, but it seemed like I was getting every few weeks someone coming in to our shop or on the telephone asking for an attachment, and doing what they thought was all the needed by verbally explaining to me "OK, I'm looking for folder, you know, just a folder, for my machine."

And I would ask, "OK, is it a lap seam, double fold, single fold, how what margin, for what model?"  Just to feel them out.

Then it would be "Oh, come on, you know, just a fold!" with a bit if spirit in their voice as they turn their hands over in a folding motion.

OK, so, I go over,take out a catalog from one of our custom attachment suppliers, and BTW it's the size of a small telephone book, with seemingly 100s (there are 1,000s really) of attachments. and say, "OK, show me what it is you want out of this book, because I really have no idea."

THEN they seem to get the point.

Do I sell sized generic binders, cross my fingers, ship it out and hope for the best?  SURE.  I also swap them out for ones that will work if the 1st one does not.  I usually insist on seeing the materials being used at this point. 

The reality is that 3/4", 7/8", and 1" is not always that; I've seen 7/8" binding NOT flow properly with a 7/8" binder, BUT it worked GREAT with a 1" size binder.  Also very common is a woven bias binding that narrows out as it's being run through a binder, going from 7/8" relaxed to a 5/8".  How can I correct this?  By actually taking the binding, and running through our 1" binder we had at that time in my hand.  Had the brand of generic binder been different, it may have been a different story.  THIS is why we need to see sewn samples, finished products, threads, materials, binding materials, and know what machine is being used to find the best possible attachment.  It's also why we use domestic US made attachments so they can be returned and adjusted properly by someone who knows what they are doing.

So, when it comes to binders and attachments, it really is a two way street; the person selling and setting them up must ask the correct questions, and the end user really has to provide as much information as possible up front, and in most cases samples.  Doing this up front can help eliminate a lot of going back and forth, and save on shipping charges, frustration, and wasted time. 

[scarab29]

I bought   mine from Gregg @ keystone. He set it up for the consew machine I have before sending it. I use 1" binding on my covers. Works like a champ !! I also have a straight 3/4" binder for straight stuff. I like the 1" way better. Also used the same attachment on the same machine @ MCTI when I took a course there. That is what they recomend there for binding covers.

[bobbin]

Scarab, that's the one I have but I'll be jiggered if I can get it to catch the lower portion of the binding on an outside curve.  Nothing seems to be "hanging up" anywhere along the line, but it's not gettin' the job done at all.  I know it's just some minor adjustment, because they should would smoothly and easily.  It's not supposed to be this hard or this frustrating.   ::)  I'll give it one more "college try" before boxing it up with samples and shipping it out. 

[fragged8]

can you post a pic up Gregg showing the difference ?

Bobbin, have you tried different materials in your binder ?
if you really get fed up with i'll take it off your hands
my week isnt complete until something drives me crazy heheh

please

Rich