Speaking of Furniture :)

[Mojo]

My wife and I were just talking this morning about our couch and bedroom outfit.

First let me say my wife is a tight wad. I know that somewhere hidden is the first dollar she ever made. :) When it comes to certain items though, she will gladly pay more for top of the line quality items. Her saying is " buy top quality the first time and you do not have to buy again ". This is where our furniture comes in.

I had a fit over our couch when we bought it. She wanted this couch because of the quality yet all I looked at was the price - $ 2,200 ( 12 years ago ). It has all solid oak construction ( this thing takes four men to move its so heavy ), and is done in a nice Italian leather. Today it still looks brand new. The cushions are just as plush as it was when new. The arms show no wear or breakdown. The frame is tight as a new one.  We do treat the leather twice a year and it is in excellent shape.

Our bedroom outfit which includes 2 night stands, large headboard and foot board an amore and a double
chest of drawers with a mirror. The furniture is all made by by Bentwood and is solid oak. It includes dove tailed joints on everything including the drawers as well as some awesome tenon joints elsewhere and hand carved decorative pieces. It was expensive as heck - $ 5,000 but it too is showing no wear whatsoever and is a family heirloom piece that will be passed down for generations. The same set is now
$ 8,000 to 10,000. Yikes....

My question to you furniture experts is this. I really do not know whats out there as I haven't been in a furniture store in years. I read about the cheap Chinese crap stuff we have out there that many of you have worked on but I am wondering, do they still make high end furniture and is it as good as it was a decade or two ago ?

Just curious.  :)

Chris

[Steve at Silverstone Fabrics]

Chris, Since I retired from operating an active upholstery/custom furniture company to pursue owning an internet upholstery fabric company, I am in and out of some the largest and most famous furniture manufacturers (I will not mention their names....I still want to buy from them) located here in North Carolina. What I see is extremely sad.

The most shocking thing is plywood frames. They cut it from 5 quarter plywood (1.25 "....this is the standard thickness of traditional furniture lumber) and they have very detailed and strong joining techniques (think of "dove tails" you normally see in cabinet making) for each piece.....but it is still plywood.

When I ask management "Why?", they respond that they can cut a sofa from on a CNC cutter from 2 pieces of plywood (with 82% yield) in under 3 minutes. They go on to say, "A plywood frame is stronger than a stick frame and is easier to cut and assemble"......but is is still plywood.

In some of the lower end manufacturers, they have specialized upholsterers........you will have an upholsterer that only trims (applies the out backs, out arms, skirts and dust covers) and others that only "inside" the piece. I actually know of several plants that have an assembly line.....their upholsterers are so specialized, they have upholsterers that can only do the "right in arm".

There are exceptions but in order to compete, most NC manufacturers are adjusting their standards that confirm what we already know.........a 30 year old sofa is made to better stands than 95% of the furniture made today. Steve

[sofadoc]

The sad part is, America's perception of "High end" furniture has totally changed.
Most of my customers think that they've bought a high quality sofa if they pay $700 for it. And when they buy one of those $399 sofas, they expect ME to re-cover it for a fraction of that cost.
Their jaw drops to the floor when I tell them "If price is your ONLY concern, you'll be happier just replacing it".
As the years roll on, those "true" high quality sofas are gradually disappearing from our landscape.
I'm very well versed in the upholsterer's spiel about why it is better to re-cover than buy new. I find myself reciting that spiel to potential customers less, and less these days, because frankly, I don't believe it myself. There's just too much "Throw-away" furniture on the market now.
I did a job at a house just a few doors down from ex-president George Bush. Needless to say, he lives in a very affluent neighborhood. There was a Rooms-To-Go truck delivering right next door.

[Mojo]

Steve:

First let me say I forgot to call you. Sorry about that. I just remembered when I seen your post. :) I need to go back and find your message. It has been a frigging zoo around here and I got busy and dun plain fergot...No excuse I know. :)

So are they still making good quality high end furniture ?

I am currently looking for two 30's or 40's matching chairs that I can recover myself for our living room. The carved handles and ball feet type. I am going to hit a few auctions and sales to see if I can pick them up cheap. These vintage chair's seem to be very well built with good wood and I am assuming I couldn't find anything today that could match their quality.

Or am I wrong guys ?

Chris

[byhammerandhand]

The vast majority of my business is fixing furniture for retailers, delivery services, and warranty companies.   It is rare that I see a piece that I consider well-constructed (of course, I see the stuff that fails.)

Even some of the old-line, high end brands seem to have kept the high price, but shipped the manufacture off-shore and the quality is "cut corners and save a nickel wherever possible."s  I can remember working on a $12K sofa from a retailer (who has since folded up) where the springs were largely supported by metal straps nailed into the frame with roofing nails.  Before it got off the floor, most of the nails were loose and up to half out and *surprise* the unit squeaked when sat in.  But to me, the most shocking thing is frames that are simply stapled together "engineered wood"  Sometimes there is a dab of glue, not enough to do much good and the staples pull.

There are a few companies out there that are low-volume and still manufacturing in USA (or Canada) will skilled workers.  

I also watch a local estate auction service and am generally surprised at what good quality "mid-century" (a way of saying the recently deceased bought when setting up household in the '40s or '50s) go for quite little.  It's rare, unless it is a collector piece, to see something go for more than a couple of hundred dollars.  It would definitely pay to have have these pieces re-upholstered or refinished and go another generation or two.

[MinUph]

When I did this in my last life I always said when I have to cut corners to keep up with the new crap coming out I will close the doors. I did that back in the late 90s. Now that I'm back into it for the last year or so I can't believe the furniture I see come into the shop. It was a rarity to see a piece of plywood in a frame. When we did back then it was Wholly S#$t what are they thinking of?
  We bought out last sectional from a company close to Syracuse where we are from. I have worked on many pieces of theirs through the years an it was top notch stuff. We bought this around 2000. And paid something in the neighborhood of 3000.00 for the two pieces. I was was very disappointed when it was delivered. Nothing like a few years past. But still no real bad. Today I don't think anything is of the quality of say 15-20 years ago. Made in USA doesn't really make it with furniture. China and other off shore countries are hard to compete with.
  As for the younger people. They just don't know quality at all. Same for service but that's another thread. I hear about the great piece of furniture someone got at the Rooms to go place. We have gone there a few times to look for furniture. What a joke. But it is what sells.
  Even watching commercials on TV for the local stores. Patterns don't match, cushions done fit. And that seen on the tube!
  Anyway. You have the right idea Chris. Finding an old piece to recover. Best way of you want quality. I don't think I will ever be able to buy new furniture again. What a shame.

[Steve at Silverstone Fabrics]

I had a conversation yesterday with a friend of mine that builds true custom furniture and he is looking to expand his business.

In a nutshell he is what he is looking at:

      --Provide a KD frame (just the frame parts...you put it together)
      --Providing the frame glued together )ready for springs....of course shipping would be more costly
            --options for this frame would include:
                  --maple or poplar lumber
                  --Webbed and 8 way tied springs
                  --several cushion options (spring fiber, spring down....etc)
                  --all of the padding components for the piece (deck padding, arm and back rubber...etc)
                  -- 5 different staining options for the legs
                  -- 1 frame minimum

I know that other  frame companies like Chervan have been offering small quantity frames for years but here is what my friend will do that Chervan doesn't offer.

#1.On his website, you can watch him build each frame that he sells.....40 years of high true custom upholstery experience.

I have seen his frames and watched him upholster for over 15 years.....there might be better upholsterers than him but the line in front of him isn't very long.

#2. Each frame will come with a paper "cut" pattern....I know that everyone cuts differently but I also know that if I am doing a math problem, it does not hurt my feelings if someone else does 75% of the work.

Think about this, you just finished your 1st sofa that came from my friend (you ordered the sofa, with 8 way springs and spring down cushions), now you get another order for the exact sofa.

With your pattern (along with your notes) that came with the 1st sofa frame, you could pre-cut  and pre-sew the entire sofa and would be able to "knock it out" once the freight company dropped it off to you.

Do you think my friend should put more effort into this thought? Steve

[MinUph]

Yes I do.

[sofadoc]

I'm intrigued. Of course, it sounds expensive. But then again, that's what we're talking about here anyway.
I wouldn't expect the general public to jump all over it right away. But if we could convince a few customers to spend the extra money, it might get the ball rolling.
I hope your friend is able to put his thoughts into action.

[Mojo]

Steve:

I am speaking from my marketing background. :)

I believe the plan has merit but he needs to understand that he will be operating in a very, very small niche market.

I can see DIY'ers grasping this but the general public will pass on the idea. We have a completely different demographical setup then a few years ago. We live in a disposable ( and lazy ) society where they want something now and do not like to wait. Time constraints also move people to hire out many things these days.

For example, people do not have the time anymore to do much for themselves because of work hours. etc. This is why we seen a huge explosion of new service businesses. Everything from dog walking services to lawn care and everything in between.

It would also have a small market with upholsterers. I would probably take a plunge and buy one or two to see how it would sell. But I would need to see how time I had into the project and it would have to make my time worth it.

I am not raining on your buddies parade but simply stating a few facts. I do know if he takes to challenge he is going to have to have a marketing expert next to him to sell this plan to the consumer. And that is going to have to include some marketing materials that are big in educating the customer as to the benefits of buying his product.

He very well be able to carve out a small niche market that would create enough income for him to soldier on in life. :)

Just my humble opinion and that is coming from the marketing and business consultant in me.

Chris