Whats going on?

[SteveA]

Kody,
I realize as was mentioned - salaries are regional -  but come on the public doesn't think a salaried upholsterer worker earns around $ 10.00 / hour and they certainly don't think a self employed upholsterer only commands $ 10.00 / hour.  Are you kidding as well ?   No one could stay in business at that level and do things the right way - have credit - pay taxes - health care - food - car - insurance - let me stop there ?   Yes an occasional swindler may stop by looking for a budget job but don't assume the general public thinks  $ 10.00 is doable in this trade. 
The only way that amount ever is considered is if you do something for a friend, charity - goodwill - etc.
How can you work with fabrics that cost $ 20.00 - $ 100.00 / yard and charge $ 10.00 for labor -

SA

[byhammerandhand]

Just as a point of reference, when I managed a group of 17 people, we budgeted a "loaded" cost of an employee as double their salary.   This included things like SSA contributions, health insurance, office rent (including utilities), computer time, education, travel expenses, etc.   This did not include cost of manager's salaries, human resources, advertising, cost of sales, distribution of product and services, technical support, interest on operating capital, etc. -- all the other "burdens" that accrue on the worker bees actually spending time making products and providing services (in our case, time on the project)  Even at that, we were expected to spend 6 hours a day in production and the rest of the time in ancillary activities -- communication, education, meetings, reports, etc.

[kodydog]

My original post at the top of this page was getting wordy so I left out the final conversation. The husband had retired back to the house and the wife and I continued to talk. She said he has been to the VA for tests. Stomach problems. She thinks its cancer. Their still waiting for results.

He's a truck driver. He hauls high dollar military equipment from the east coast to Seattle. Million dollar stuff like jet engines. He has high security clearance. His Kenworth is specially fitted to preform this task. Not just a sleeper behind the cab but a camper with kitchen, bathroom and computer desk. Its nice. It is fitted with chains that automatically deploy around the tires, at the touch of a button for icy conditions. The truck is worth more than their house. He makes good money.

The wife's point was if hes sick and can no longer drive, there goes their income.

Having those chairs upholstered would have been the last thing on my mind. I don't know what they are thinking.

Originally the sister was going to recover the chairs. They went to Jo-anns and bought every thing to do it. Foam, fabric, staple puller and even black bottom. He bought a small compressor and staple gun. After striping the second chair the sister lost interest.

They also bought dacron and when I brought the chairs back I forgot to load the dacron onto the van.

So today Rose called her just to keep in touch. The first thing the customer says, Ed forgot to bring the dacron back. Rose said yes and you can come by any time and pick it up. She said she would be by today but never showed up. I still hold some hope that we will still get the job but if we don't that's OK too.

Kody,
I realize as was mentioned - salaries are regional -  but come on the public doesn't think a salaried upholsterer worker earns around $ 10.00 / hour and they certainly don't think a self employed upholsterer only commands $ 10.00 / hour.  
SA

Steve, I kid you not. these people told me they found two other upholsterers that beat my price by 1/2. My shop fee is normally $30 and hour. I cut them some slack because they have 6 chairs. I charged them $25 an hour. If another upholsterer is beating my price by 1/2 he's shop fee is $12.50 an hour. Take out overhead and your looking at about $10.50 an hour.

Of course the customer doesn't know how long each chair takes or how much over head an upholstery shop has but my original quote was $300 per chair. I guess they think I should do it for $150. IDK

Here is the chair. The legs get covered too. The foam also gets replaced. Their foam but I still gotta do the work. Am I way off?

[sofadoc]

Ed:

I've had a few customers down through the years that were dealing with serious health problems, yet they focused all their attention on the furniture that I was recovering. I don't understand it, but I guess that's how they cope.

Your customer may have stomach cancer, yet they have time to worry about some Dacron. Go figure.

$300 each is a little more than I could get around here for chairs like that with a plain tailored skirt. But if you have to do that flange thing again, then $300 sounds about right. If someone offered me $150 to do those chairs, I wouldn't even roll out of bed.

But I'm convinced. If I were to do those chairs, present them to the customer, and say "Just pay me what you think they're worth", they would pay me about $300 for the two of them. Maybe less.
Because they aren't thinking about overhead, taxes, insurance, supplies, etc. All they're thinking about is that they can buy a new chair for even less at the nearest discount furniture store.

[SteveA]

 
I think with all expenses an owner has - it's much more then double.  But more to the point - babysitters make $ 10.00 / hour. 

The public will try to diminish the value of your services but deep down they know what talent costs.
SA

[kodydog]

Your right Steve. And I shouldn't make it sound like all my customers are like this. In fact most of my customers never bat an eye when we give a quote. We weed out most tire kickers with e-mails and phone quotes. What gets me with this couple is the deal was done, deposit in hand, van loaded and already back at the shop. Then they decided to shop around.

I don't think there is a way to weed out people like this. If I had already started the chairs the deposit would have been mine.

[baileyuph]

Consumers have their reference point on pricing and on furniture like, at issue, can be bought new for about half what an upholster in the US needs to live.  Bangladesh (we have covered this subject a few times about US labor cost v/s Asian cost) labor rate to build furniture/upholstery is $3.  That is not per hour, it is per day.  

That directly or indirectly is the reference point of the US consumer on these two chairs or furniture in general.

The market in Texas, east coast, or are slightly different but not that much.  So, what Dennis is experiencing, I see it too.  So, at the end of the day, someone else will yield and do the job for this customer and maybe earn half per hour compared to the Kody reduced bid.

This story is just one of the challenges upholsters experience which makes it understandable where the trade is going.  Plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc., do not compete as directly with Asian labor, as the Bangladesh example provided, for many reasons of geographical nature.

Today, in my business, I cannot easily get $30 per hour to work on typical furniture work.  Note the word "easily", but I understand there can be variances to anything.

But, I can get more than $40 per hour working on heavy dirty tarps.  One should easily catch on to what is meant by consumer references.  Consumer cannot go to Walmart or? and buy a heavy fitted tarp as we see used in industry (trucks, cargo, etc.) like they can buy furniture (upholstered chairs as is the subject at issue) that is imported and produced at $3 labor per day.  

Change and continues.

Doyle

[byhammerandhand]

Where's the "like" button for Doyle's response.

[gene]

Yep, good response Doyle.

These fully upholstered straight back dining room chairs with covered legs and skirts can sometimes take as much time as a fully upholstered club chair - each.

Get a hard wood frame with those thin copper colored wire staples that they use in factories that break off instead of pulling out, and you can spend 1 to 1 1/2 hours each just taking off the old fabric. I would think that these chairs get the old fabric covered up by the 'cheap' prices, more than any other style of furniture.

I price these chairs to compete against new chairs. If someone wants to cut my prices in half they can have them.

gene