Interesting POV

[sofadoc]

There is a factory here in town that manufactures church pews. They've been in business over 60 years, and ship their pews all over the US.

I've had a very good relationship with the owner for the last 30 years. He subs out his small cushion jobs to me.

He was in my shop today. He says that business has been way down the last 2 or 3 years. Most new churches are comprised of members that split off from an older more established church. Usually a younger crowd, that wants a multi-purpose building that will serve both as a sanctuary and activity center.

In other words.......no pews. Just movable chairs.

Over the years, he has observed many changes in the "business" of religion (yes, he considers it to be nothing more than a business now). Churches are taking a more relaxed stance on many lifestyles that they previously left no "wiggle room" on. I don't have to tell you guys what lifestyles I'm talking about, and I'm NOT trying to spark a debate on them. He firmly believes that churches have eased their standards simply to "put more butts in the seats".

I used to do at least 1 large pew cushion job a year. It's probably been 4 or 5 years since my last one. I've bid quite a few, and found out later that the cost caused heated arguments at budget meetings.

Do you guys get many church pew jobs? And without getting into a religious debate, are you seeing your local churches doing more to affect their bottom line? Even if it means relaxing their beliefs?

[baileyuph]

The impression I have the pew mfg. business is not good anymore.  Several reasons and I witnessed one that died.

As for the cushion market - it too has changed.  No market almost anymore.

As far as the changes in churches, some of what you say has been observed.  Things from the news and printed reports (new papers), churches have been in a state of flux for the last 20 years, possibly longer.

But, some continue with a lot of support.

Doyle

[kodydog]

I like doing churches. I can get in there, work long hard hours. Assembly line style. Get the job done and get paid. I realize the funds all come from donations but as much as I'd like to I just cant afford to give them a discount. This makes it hard to compete with out of state companies that bring a crew in and knock it out in a day or two. We've done about 10 churches in the last 30 years. Some big, some small. Its been 5 years since our last church job.

When I was growing up my family attended the United Church Of Christ. This is where Rose and I were married. Back then I didn't pay much attention to politics and I don't remember them being much different than other churches.  The United Church Of Christ has grown into one of the biggest religious organizations in the United States. And they have become very liberal. My mom still goes. They welcome gay and lesbian parishioners. Her minister is lesbian. Moms pretty proud she belongs to such an open minded church. They also have no issues against abortion. My take is what ever floats your boat.

I never pondered why they went this way. I just thought they evolved. More butts in the seats? Interesting point.

[SteveA]

My Church which is RC....... and yes overall the Pope is more accepting of lifestyles but the Parishioners are still old school  - our attendance is slightly up though !   However many other Churches here in NY are closing and combining due to lack of attendance.  Furnishings, upholstery is restored - , wood pews are not replaced because the old woods are better figured - and constructed better.  I'm seeing renovations rather than replacing of furnishings.  Old stained glass windows, - marble stations of the cross - the celebrant's chair - all have been renovated over the years -      Most work done in local Church's here must have the approval of the Archdioceses and use someone who is in the system and approved by their office - it's a short list - smaller contractors here in the Parish usually donate their work. Payment comes in other ways.
SA

[gene]

I quoted on one church's pews last year and they decided to try to do the job themselves. They never got it completed. They finally recovered only the few worst pews and said they didn't have the money to do any more. It was a small evangelical fundamentalist church. By the way, the most worn pews were those in the very back of the church.

I realize the funds all come from donations but as much as I'd like to I just cant afford to give them a discount.

Tax free donations and countless hours of volunteer work from the church members to run the church. Most of those volunteer hours are from women who are in dead marriages and find a bit of purpose and meaning in their lives by being a part of the church.

I know many people who were members of churches and got involved in the business side of the church as volunteers and they were shocked to see how cut throat the business can be. Guilt is as good as anything else to get someone to give them a discount.

I just thought they evolved.

I hope that was a pun intended. I certainly got a chuckle out of your choice of words.

and yes overall the Pope is more accepting of lifestyles

Another chuckle. I had lunch with a friend yesterday who used to be RC and he said he knows a RC woman who hates the Pope. She said the pope is just another man who's defending the boys' club and he will never let woman be priests. To use sofaDs' words, this Pope still gives no 'wiggle room' on certain life styles. He gave only 'lip service' against the culture of priests raping little boys, and only recently took action against a few priests. I see the Pope as speaking more politically correct with no changes other than to kick the Italian mafia out of the coffers of the Vatican. One of my best friends is a very devout RC and he loves this new Pope.

Like anything in the world of faith, it is what you believe it to be.

Religion overall is not growing here in the USA. The only growth is new 'box' churches who's members are not new believers but religious people coming from or having been members of more traditional churches who no longer agree with many of the old school fundamentalist beliefs.

are you seeing your local churches doing more to affect their bottom line? Even if it means relaxing their beliefs?

On my more cynical days it's all about money. On most days, it's about human beings trying to live a better life by allowing others to control them and demanding that others be controlled.

gene

PS: I've read about the growing number of Atheist churches. (Another chuckle from me here.) I would think that there would not be many church pew opportunities here either - other than those churches who kicked out god and kept the pews. LOL

[bobbin]

Interesting discussion.  I spoke with a fairly recently consecrated Bishop (Episcopal="Catholic Lite") and indeed the move in churches is to a more "relaxed" approach to the congregate.  Pews are passé and the present move is toward seating that can be more easily moved/rearranged to accommodate other functions. 

Gone are the days (daze?) when the preacher "held court" and the flock sat rigidly in the pews awaiting the word from on high!  The trend is indeed toward a more inclusive atmosphere; one that more readily accommodates a more relaxed approach to worship. 

[sofadoc]

I like doing churches. I can get in there, work long hard hours. Assembly line style. Get the job done and get paid.

Same here. When I had a pew job to do of around 30 pews, I would break it up over 3 nights. Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. I would work my regular day in the shop until 5, then go to the church and work until around 11 PM.

I once bid a pew job where the congregation had agreed to each pay for the row they sat on. It came to an average of about $38 each. The church disbanded and closed over several financial issues, including that $38. They held a "funeral" for the church. At the ceremony, the open casket that you walked by contained nothing but a mirror. 

When handsome young Sofadoc used to sit in the pews on Sunday mornings, I was told that the scriptures were VERY clear on issues regarding sin. Apparently, they weren't so clear after all.

I last attended regularly back in the 90's. The church that I belonged to at the time encouraged a complete boycott of Disney World, and all Disney owned businesses. Because they were among the first to provide benefits to same-sex partnerships.

It was funny to see how many of the members were very tight-lipped about their summer vacation plans.
And you could spot them stealthily sneaking in to the movies when a Disney pic was playing.

[SteveA]

Gene
I know this isn't supposed to be a religious discussion but briefly - it's not just women in bad marriages -
Yes there are bad apples in every organization - including every church -
The Christian Church helps people !  All this good comes from the Parishioners  pls don't chuckle that away
SA

[byhammerandhand]

Many of the "traditional" churches that I'm familiar with seem to be struggling.   Some are for politics, some are because the congregation is aging and dying.  The mega-churches seem to be thriving.   I just don't see the attraction of worshiping with 1000 people you don't know.  My wife and I think at those mega churches you need to be involved in a small group to get a feeling of belonging.   Then again, I went to Ohio State with 50,000 other students and that's how I survived there.

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

My in-laws have belonged to an ALS church for years.  I really like Pastor and the Church building is fabulous.  Not too big, not too small, updated due to a fire in the late 1990's.  But, they are on the verge of collapsing.  Mostly elderly parishoneers, all the children have either switched to a more fundamental church or quit going altogether.

I was raised Episcopalian (we don't consider ourselves Catholic Lite BTW) and that Church is thriving.  Does a lot of Community-based things and so far their congregation continues to grow steadily.  Perhaps the difference is in keeping their name out their.  Don't know the answer of why one is doing more than surviving and one is gasping.

Virginia