It had to happen...

[bobbin]

OK, I delivered a handsome slipcover a couple of weeks ago (sub-contracted).  Went to the site, patterned, returned home and received  goods, worked up the slipcover, and delivered it a week later.  Looked great.  (contractor verified the quality of the workmanship and fit). 

Now, contractor wants to "talk price" on future work.  Methinks NOT! 

I have the equipment.  I have the requisite skills.  I know what my margins are.  I have ZERO intention of minimizing my margin to bolster that of a "contractor".  My quandary is how do I politely and unequivocally convey that to the contractor in question?

Given the above, I clearly need to more effectively promote my manifest talents to the general public.  I don't care a fig where the fabric is purchased.   I only care that it will be of suitable quality and in suitable quantity.  Need your good thoughts on how to most effectively use "print" media...

[sofadoc]

Many customers think that if they give you a lot of work, they should expect a volume discount.

And they're right........IF the work involves mass-produced identical pieces.

But if each piece is custom tailored, then they should not expect a break in price IMO.

I would tell the contractor that I will be happy to figure in a price break on any identical repetitive work. But the normal stuff is already based on thin margin prices.

[MinUph]

Need your good thoughts on how to most effectively use "print" media...

  bobbin,
  I have never had much luck with "print media" I have advertised in local papers getting the most bang for the buck. Larger venues never gave me any return on investment. I'm sure you have heard word of mouth is the best and it still is but this takes time. Also the web will get you call but this also takes some time to get indexed well no matter what some vendors will tell you it takes time or money (lots of it) to get listed near the top and the money only works as long as you're paying it.
  If memory serves me you started fairly recently on your own. Give it time and deal with whatever comes in. Your name will get around.
  Also some free advertising on your vehicle works. As well as cards.
  Whatever the case don't give your work away to some contractor. If they like your work they will pay for it.

[byhammerandhand]

While you might want want to handle your defense by producing a good offense and asking, "What areas do you think I can reduce cost of material or labor by doing more work for you?"   it could give you some talking points.

If the jobs are not just repetitions of the same thing over and over
- will you reduce your effort to go onsite and do patterning and measuring?
- will you reduce your layout, design, set-up, cutting, sewing, and fitting time?
- will you save on material costs?
- what automated process or productivity tools can you employ and cost justify purchase, if any?

Now if you were making, say, bolts,
- one design / sales trip would be the same regardless if you were making 100 or 100,000,000
- you might have an area dedicated to your #208 bolt if you're doing them all day, every day
- one machine set up / programming spread over a different number of bolt / multiple machines
- you get a better price buying a box car of bolt stock over 3 pieces because of your supplier's cost of sales
- you might be able to buy that new automated machine that will spit out 5,000 bolts per hour instead of 500.

[JuneC]

Ok, devil's advocate here...  I give "wholesalers" (marina's) a break for several reasons - 1)  I don't have to find the customer 2) they're on the hook for getting paid - I get my pay regardless and 3) if the customer doesn't like it, they're the ones answering the calls, running defense.  So they get a bit of a discount, but that only goes so far... the power company still has to be paid.

June

[baileyuph]

I have followed the practice Paul mentioned, word of mouth.  It is the best way IMHO.

I haven't missed a beat, even in this downturn due to word of mouth.

I don't like a sales person trying to cut my price to make a buck for him (unless they are really bringing in the business.  Another reason I don't like that relationship is they quickly think they own you, not good - unless you want to be owned.

If you have a fabric vendor, who understands your quality they might be your best relationship.  Get with one who sells upscale fabrics and feels the obligation to encourage their customers to go to the best craftsperson.

Word of mouth and work with the best fabric vendors (which will even boost WOM work).

Last and not least, continue to assume the reponsibility of getting even better and faster.  Diversification has worked very well for me.  Working for a quality vendor can quickly lead to expanding wom and diversification.  Working for a contractor doesn't really expand your exposure - which is a bad situation because they want the one who does the work in the back room because they might sense you becoming their competitor.

Getting wordy here, but it is probably worth commenting that a contractor who wants to beat you down will not make enough out his business to be around long.  He probably doesn't have enough business and a good reputation either.

Just a comment, not suggesting anything, but if one likes to just do the work and do it very well, but in a corner.  Maybe being a high classed employee is the best way to go.  There are advantages to this approach, especially in an upscale market.  You make decent money and the job stays there when you clock out.  

Doyle

[kodydog]

Bobbin, you did an outstanding job and made the contractor look good. Is your contractor a decorator?

I love working for decorators but when they ask for special prices or kick backs its time to dump them. Never go down on your price. It'll always come back to bite you in the ass.

My quandary is how do I politely and unequivocally convey that to the contractor in question?

Be blunt. No other way. Unless you want to be known as the shop that produces excellent work at cut rate prices.

Did you ever get that web site rolling? I think this is the future of advertising. And if you want to be a "work room only" nothing beats hitting the pavement and meeting the designers in person. Gotta put on your salesmanship hat.

[SteveA]

Bobbin,
Years ago a contractor came to me and offered up some very high end work.  Work that I would have never had the opportunity to be exposed to.  It thrust me into a market that I liked being.  Yes he got his big share but for me - I would not have gotten the fees I got from him anywhere else - never mind the exposure.  Advice = be smart - keep him on the hook - negotiate - and smile all the way to the bank. 

30 years have passed and I still work for this contractor - and he's now a best friend -

SA

[bobbin]

I have a crummy website that does not allow me to add/subtract photos as is necessary (at least not easily!).  Need to deal with that (my weapons of choice are the sewing machine, the tape measure, and scissors).  My website is not generating much "traffic".  I need to remedy that failing.  I also am now thinking about copyrighting  my pictures...  (see below)

I did the nice slip. for a decorator (not a designer!).  Many of the photos on the decorator's site are not her own work... (see above).  My work is MY work and I would like to have it so noted.  She is very nice and gets more calls that I do... but she hasn't a fraction of my manifest skills and has virtually no equipment.  "All hat and no cattle"... perhaps Sofa. will have something to offer?  ;)

I'm cool about establishing a working relationship with a marina/decorator/designer.  I do a decent amount of work with a very POSH marina (Port Out/Starboard Home is where that abbreviation originated) .  My work is priced to accommodate their desired mark up and we both prosper as a result.  I was irritated that having seen my finished work, the decorator seemed to think there was room for negotiation with respect to my price.  I had to make two trips to the site, I patterned in a COLD home, and my price was fair.  I was clear in my response that the quality of the work was due to my years of expertise, attention to detail, and excellent equipment, and my price was my price.  Negotiation was not (which is why I asked about local print media advertising). 

The price I quoted was what I'd have quoted someone who contacted me directly.  As such, I have so room for "negotiation" if I wish to maintain the margin I desire.  (note to self:  smarten up dummy!).

[JuneC]

Bobbin, if you want to share your website URL, I'll be happy to look at the source code and see if it's structured in a way that you could change and add photos with some simple step by step instructions.  Also, I'd be happy to look at the heading code that might improve your SEO ranking in Google.  At the time I built my website, I managed to land on page one of a Google search (and this is a very crowded canvas area) but have to admit, I haven't touched the content in years.  

As for copyrighting photos, I'd certainly go for it.  I'd be totally pissed if someone stole some of my photos and marketed them as their work.  You can add a watermark easily using PIXLR.COM.  It's a free photo editor on the web and there's a youtube video with step by step instructions on how to watermark.

June

PS:  I would not need nor want your id/password for whatever web service you're using.  I can look at the source code just with the web browser.  You could make your own changes.  Also, for those of you who dabble a little, Firefox browser and the free Firebug app are a killer combination for working on websites. 

[baileyuph]

This is just  voice from "out there":  "No" to a designer using your work under the pretention that it is their work.  That would only be permissable under an employer employee relationship, merely my opinion.

I do not know the procedure nor the cost to copyright a picture.  There is considerable wisdom to keeping the big picture of any business relationship in place, and understand it.

When I do an auto interior for an auto restoration shop, my part - the interior/top and whatever is fully credited to me.  It pays dividends in the form of more work from that and other customers (all understandable).  That is just another form of WOM.

A web site, I know it has its place, it is not essential in my case.  Actually, it would be a distraction as long as my current game plan is in place.  Equally important, for example any awards the car or automobile wins, owners of the cars always list who did the upholstery.  Further, one of these vehicles I created interior for, did win "best of show" at a national meet and the associated monthly magazine affiliated with the car type (Classic Chevy) gave recognition to me for my work.  They did this by asking questions and printed it in their next monthly.  With friends and respect gathered like this, I enjoyed all benefits of a copy right.  In contrast, my experience (credit for auto interiors) and your experience (perhaps no recognition for your beautiful work) does make one want to run a smarter activity.  

In parting, keep it all in mind and insure proper credit goes to where it should, you will be on your way to growing through WOM.  

The posture I sense you want to be in is:  Do the work, get a fair price for what you do, and develop a trademark for yourself.  An example of what I am saying, if it is necessary, work for whoever can pay your price (a fair one) but somehow your work needs to bear the emblem who created it, not sold it.  From here is where I need help and that is; how to have your emblem on your work?  You don't really care who sells it, the more the better, as long as your emblem is there - your word of mouth (WOM) objectives will surely be satisfied.

I have been lucky from my described working relationships with body shops and the owners of the interiors done to date.  Admitted a slightly different angle than decorators/designers relationship.  A good decorator/designer will play the same game, after all, as your name becomes valuable, so does their buiness of designing and decorating.  

Another way of arranging a fair relationship with designers/decortors is everyone gets their fair shake in the deal.  That can be accomplished if they perform as a dealer (vendor) and you as the manfacturer.  Manufacturer of Chevrolets (GM) gets full credit for every car they build and in the process every dealer receives the same for every Chevrolet they sell.  You are the manufacturer, you can use good dealers, both deserve recognition for good job performance.  Just think if a renown designer marketed with the lable furnishings from your expert high quality manufacturing techniques.  That is a win win in the grandest fashion.  That is the type of WOM to have going for the manufacturer and the dealer!

All of that and about a buck will get you a cup of coffe at McDonalds.  

Doyle

[SteveA]

June,
If you rework my web site you can not only have my password, I'll add my kids, the van, and a subscription to the RNC !
SA

[sofadoc]

I have a question.

In her original post, Bobbin asks about the best way to stand firm on price  with a contractor. Let's assume for a moment, that by "contractor", she means an interior decorator/designer. For the purpose of this conversation, we'll just refer to all of them as ID's.

While at the same time, she also wants to market her services to the general public.

I have a commercial location that is highly visible to the general public, which may be why ID's tend to shy away from me. They prefer their upholsterer to be invisible.

Many times over the years, an ID's client has by-passed them, and called me directly on the next job. And I've had a few ID's that get PO'ed about it. They expect me to turn away any customer that they had "dibbs" on.

Do you guys work and play well with ID's, while at the same time maintaining a high degree of visibility with the general public?  I'm mainly asking this of "one-man" shops. I realize that large to mid-sized shops may be different.

As for an ID using pics of my work to promote their service, I'm not sure that would bother me.
If they have a photo on their website of an entire living room that they designed, and my work just happens to be part of it, I guess I'd be OK with that. It's actually happened to me a few times back before the days of internet, when ID's would have brochures printed up.

BUT, if I were to use a pic of a couch that Gene had done, and proclaimed "HEY! I DID THIS COUCH!", that would be a true act of plagiarism. 

[Mike]

I do a decent amount of work with a very POSH marina (Port Out/Starboard Home is where that abbreviation originated) .

I never heard that bobbin  doese it have to do with the markers like red right return?

on the cppyrite photo I wonder how that would work your taking a photo of a item you don't own like I take picture of my work done on boat nut if a photo is take after im done so what its there boat.

when I first started this in 91 I had a dealer next dorr a real niec guy who built his dealership to be one otf the best at the same time I gave him ciscounts and he gave me a lot of work all new boat cover in custom colors unlike the oem offered and I did most all installs of oem canvas on new boats . one time when I was low on money coming out of a long winter he found me sone work in march and dug work out of the snow for me I consider him a friend also m but ive got a dealer here who I did a good amout of work for then they moved 5 year ago only to move back into town thisyearm thwey were going to have so much work and wanted a good deal again I hot 3  cover initialy and havnt heard nothing on over a month no more deals

[JuneC]

SteveA, I'd be happy to help (no, I don't want anything in return).  You can PM me your URL - I didn't see it in your profile - and what you'd want to change and I'll tell you if I have the skills and/or tools to do what you'd like. 

June