Fabric supplier cutting practices.

[SHHR]

I just discovered what could be a potential problem for me while working on a pontoon (the one I mentioned in my other post on my arm) and had to come in and post on it. I don't think it will effect me at all, but it could've been a serious matter. Anyway, I'm out in the shop cutting vinyl for some seats and as I'm unrolling one color down the table to mark and cut it, I come to a splice in the vinyl and I'm now by this time approximatly 1/3 to 1/2 way through the roll now. Each piece had a clean square end and was taped together from the bottom side of the vinyl using masking tape. I really wouldn't mind if I was told from the beginning that it was there. In the past when ordering I've been told if they don't have a full cut they could put it together with smaller cuts and I'm most always ok with it. When that happens though the larger cut is rolled up with the smaller ones on the out side and not taped to one continuous piece. I want to add this is NOT from any supplier on this site and am not implying anything. I just would like to ask if anyone has ever encountered this before. If I had a job that required several long pieces this could cause major problems.
I have to take blame too though because all material I receive is marked to inspect before cutting and I seldom do that on a 15+ yard of vinyl. I guess I should start though.
Kyle

[bobbin]

I would be rippin' mad if I discovered that, Kyle.  And I would be right on the blower to the supplier to register my irritation.  I would also follow it up with an e-mail and a letter.  Any "cuts" should be flagged at the supplier; and the little stickers that tell you to inspect the goods should reflect that you didn't get one continuous run on the roll!  A break in the run is obvious to whoever is cutting and noting it shouldn't be a big deal.  I am OK with a minor flaw being passed along (those are usually tagged with a red tag) because it's usually pretty easy to cut around them.

It drives me nuts when I use the premade vinyl welting and hit a place where to ends are butted up to each other with the white stitching.  Sure, I can cut and splice it, but the point is that it ought to be noted on the reel (I remember when it used to be).  It takes time to do that and when I buy a reel of anything I expect it will continuous. 

[ahkahn]

Guys, this is a serious issue that all fabric suppliers hear about all the time.  I can certainly understand your frustration, but splices are a necessary evil to all of us.  If the seam was taped or flagged, it definitely came from the manufacturer like that. 

I would love for Miami Mike to chime in on their standard practices, because this has been one that we struggle with internally, as do most of our suppliers.  At the end of the day, you just can't make everyone happy. 

We follow CFFA (industry) standards for what we cut and send.  Here is (cut and pasted from our internal policy manual) what we do regarding cuts and customer notification:

----------------
DLT Cutting Policies

All cuts are overcut by 3-4 inches to ensure we don't short the customer.

If there is a cut in any order 10 yards or less, we should call and advise of the cut lengths unless you know for sure the customer can use them. 

Marine topping material should be 20 yards or less.

Before the warehouses cut the materials, we should contact the customer.

You should offer a little extra yardage (allowance) at no charge (ie. 1/4 - 1/2 yard).

We can not guarantee anything more than 10 yards due to factory splices.

Below are CFFA industry standards. 

Maximum number of pieces:
     
        6-30 yard roll- 2 pieces
        31-60 yard roll- 3 pieces
        61-90 yard roll- 4 pieces
        91 - 115 yard roll - 5 pieces
        116 - 125 yard roll - 6 pieces
Anything from the mill greater than what's above qualifies as seconds.

Width stated is a minimum - so 54" is a minimum.  Nothing narrower. 

Each flag  (marker) for a flaw on the roll should include at least 1/8" yard from the factory for imperfection.

    No less than 5 yards between flags
    Only 1 flag (flaw) per 20 yards
-----------------

I hope this helps you guys.  If you see an issue with this, how can we improve it?

-Andrew

[kodydog]

Thanks for the post Andrew. We usually inspect fabric we order before we start cutting. When we find a splice we draw a cutting pattern to work around it. If we have a problem the suppliers have always been very accommodating. They used to send a extra 1/2 yard when there was a splice but that seems to be happening less these days.

My question is, say I order 15 yards. And your guy in the warehouse is getting it ready to ship. When he sees a splice at 10 yards, why doesn't he set that aside and use it later when you get a 10 yard order?

[sofadoc]

My question is, say I order 15 yards. And your guy in the warehouse is getting it ready to ship. When he sees a splice at 10 yards, why doesn't he set that aside and use it later when you get a 10 yard order?

OK Kody, now you're just making sense.
Rational thinking like that has NO place on this forum. STOP IT!! ;)

Seriously though, I would bet that they do exactly that until that option has been exhausted.
So when you get a splice, it's probably because they were "scrapin' bottom".

I rarely need long unbroken cuts, so on those rare occasions, I always tell them in advance that I can't deal with any splices.

[gene]

I just got 1 yard of fabric delivered to my studio. NO! WAIT! IT'S NOT 1 YARD!!! It was 33 1/2 inches. Why didn't they set that 33 1/2" piece back on the shelf, send me the 1 yard that the interior designer ordered, and then wait for someone to order 33 1/2" of that exact fabric?    :o

It is my belief that companies send out crap and hope the customer will take it. For the cost of a few items being sent back by pissed off customers, they save more money by not stopping the order, cutting the 10 yards at the splice and then marking that roll and setting it on the shelf to wait for someone who some day might, maybe, possibly, order 10 yards of that specific material, and then send kodydog his 15 yards unspliced order.

It's called  :-* the customer.

gene

[bobbin]

I think maybe I was not clear in my post, Andrew.  I understand that splices are necessary when dealing with welting.  But it would be nice to have them noted on the reel, so you know in advance how many splices you will encounter before the reel is exhausted.  It used to be that way, but it no longer is and it's a drag to find one when you believe the reel will be continuous. 

As for yard goods; a yard is a yard... not 33"!  It is generally courtesy to "overcut" a yard, esp. when dealing with smaller amounts of goods.  Sometimes you really do need a full yard! esp. when dealing with a repeat that is large.  You simply can't "make the match" when you don't have the required amount of inches.  ;)

When ordering yard goods it is the supplier's responsibility to call the customer and ask if pcs. would be acceptable (and offer an appropriate discount!); to receive yard goods that arrive in pcs. is not remotely acceptable.  End of story.  I am willing to inspect goods, but for Pete's sake, where is the responsibility of the vendor in "quality control"? 

[sofadoc]

I just got 1 yard of fabric delivered to my studio. NO! WAIT! IT'S NOT 1 YARD!!! It was 33 1/2 inches. Why didn't they set that 33 1/2" piece back on the shelf, send me the 1 yard that the interior designer ordered, and then wait for someone to order 33 1/2" of that exact fabric?   

Maybe it's like a box of cereal......"Some of the contents may have settled during shipping". :D

[gene]

LOL.

And if I had ordered 33 1/2" they would have sent me, and billed me, for a yard.

If they hadn't shorted this yard of fabric I would have gone all week with nothing to complain about. See. You can find gratitude in anything that life throws your way.

gene

[SHHR]

I just got 1 yard of fabric delivered to my studio. NO! WAIT! IT'S NOT 1 YARD!!! It was 33 1/2 inches.


gene

Gene, back when I was a toolmaker and did a lot of sheet metal fabrication, we would hire an occasional helper or apprentice. I had one once go up to our sheet metal shear to cut a very expensive sheet of stainless steel. I didn't watch him and he ended up cutting it too short. To have some fun we sent him all over the plant to hunt down our "metal expanders" to stretch it out a bit :D  Maybe you could adjust the torsional pressure down on some of those to handle the stresses of lengthening fabric for just such an occasion ;D
Kyle

[Mike]

I never had a splice but once inhad some quilted seabrook that was missing a heatpleat. Luckily it was right were i was going to cur but indid let the  dist know of it.  I like to place my roll on a pipe at the end of my table then i roll out as needed and cut my pieces out i roll it out backside ip and mark the back do tou guys mark the face to cut  ?  Thats how its rolled if to roll it out

[ahkahn]

Wow guys, lots to address here!  Let's go:

My question is, say I order 15 yards. And your guy in the warehouse is getting it ready to ship. When he sees a splice at 10 yards, why doesn't he set that aside and use it later when you get a 10 yard order?

Kody, at face value that makes perfect sense.  The only problem is that we have no idea whether we'll get a 10 yard order in the next day or the next 5 years.  

What happens if I have 25 yard on the shelf, and a splice at 5.  We dig into the roll and send you the 15 continuous you ordered.  I now have a 5 and a 5 on the shelf.  It's a lot harder for someone to use a 5 and a 5 vs. a 5 and a 10.  

What happens if I have a 25 yard on the shelf, and a splice at 10.  We dig into the roll and send you the 15 continuous you ordered.  I now have that 10 on the shelf.  A customer orders 9.  We now have a 1 yard cut that is essentially waste.  

We try to send what we can, but still accommodate as best as we can.

Thanks for the post Andrew. We usually inspect fabric we order before we start cutting. When we find a splice we draw a cutting pattern to work around it.

Kody, This is the necessary evil of the upholstery business.  Thank you for your feedback!

It is my belief that companies send out crap and hope the customer will take it.

Gene, my company doesn't.  If anyone ever feels like someone at my company did, you have a direct line straight to the top.

...it would be nice to have them noted on the reel, so you know in advance how many splices you will encounter before the reel is exhausted.  It used to be that way, but it no longer is and it's a drag to find one when you believe the reel will be continuous.

Bobbin, The supplier doesn't wrap/roll the welt, so we can't control that.  I have some very old (30+ years) welt in our warehouse that is not labeled.  That said, it was probably an old manufacturer that was doing it.  I would imagine through automation and mfg process changes the manufacturers are no longer doing that to keep costs down.  That said, it's a great point!

As for yard goods; a yard is a yard... not 33"!  It is generally courtesy to "overcut" a yard, esp. when dealing with smaller amounts of goods.  Sometimes you really do need a full yard! esp. when dealing with a repeat that is large.  You simply can't "make the match" when you don't have the required amount of inches.

Bobbin, I agree 100%.

When ordering yard goods it is the supplier's responsibility to call the customer and ask if pcs. would be acceptable (and offer an appropriate discount!); to receive yard goods that arrive in pcs. is not remotely acceptable.  End of story.  I am willing to inspect goods, but for Pete's sake, where is the responsibility of the vendor in "quality control"?  

I can't speak to other suppliers' practices (still waiting to hear from Miami Mike on their policies), but if you read ours, we will definitely call customers if it falls outside of industry spec (ie. a 5 and a 5 for 10) unless we know the customer well and know what they can and can't use.

I hope this helps you guys understand the other side of the coin.  That's why I always frequent these forums to give a supplier's perspective on issues raised.

-Andrew

[Mike]

Andrew ive had mismi ask me id i can take say 10 and 5 n
Ok i usualy will it when i order just enought to do kne seat licly on my pleated problem i had a bench seat i needed just enought to the flaw where i cut and the rest was enought for a smaller seat.
If im doing a whole boat and get say 16 yards.  I can usualy work around a cut   As in 9 and 5 yardd pieces.  Im willing to helpmthem out  also  and have always taken it