Does Your Supplier Sell to the Public ?

[gene]

Oregon and New Jersey are the only states where you cannot pump your own gas.

The local foam and upholstery supplier here no longer sells wholesale. Often when I am there to pick up supplies there is a homeowner in there buying foam and other stuff and asking for details about how to do it.

I can often buy foam out of town cheaper depending on the shipping charges.

We have a fabric supplier here in town that only sells wholesale. I occasionally will send a customer there to look at fabrics, but the store will not give prices to my customer, only to me. Last year I gave a customer my wholesale price, no mark up. She found it cheaper at JoAnn Fabrics with her 40% off coupon. Then she found it cheaper on-line, including shipping. The shipped bolt of fabric was directly from Robert Allen and said "3rd party". It didn't even have the name and address of the internet seller on it.

gene

[SHHR]

When I started taking interest in this business I used two local suppliers who were within an hours drive of me. One not only sold fabric and trim supplies, they also sold and serviced machines. That's where I purchased my first machine and the lady who ran the fabric/supply end of the business set me up with a commercial account with the reasoning of just spending what I did on my machine I must be going to do that type of work.
Anyone could walk in off of the street and look at or buy materials, but would pay retail cost. The shop was very tight lipped to me about what savings I would incur until I did receive the commercial account, which I thought was very good for the reason of the whole markup thing in business.

When the economy tanked back in 07-08 that 100+ year old business folded, so I started with this other supplier in the same town. They too automatically set me up with a commercial account, since I did business at the other place and they hired many of the former employees who lost their jobs too, so they kind of just "grandfathered in" those customers from the other supplier.

They too were tight lipped about the savings of a commercial account, but after I had it a short while and did business with them, they had a sales rep at my shop giving me many sample books, price sheets, even some possible customer prospects and business advice.

I've been in their showroom before when someone walks in off the street to look for a material and they always check to see if they have an account before discussing costs. Once a man came (a walk in) in while I was there wanting "some type of material" to do some trunk panels for a stereo and they suggested he bring it to me for a proffesional job.

The shop manager went on to tell me they really work to protect the shops who buy from them regularly , and it's something I really appreciate. They even have no problem suggesting another supplier such as Miami if they can't help with a certain material.

Those are the type of things that really impress me when using a supplier. With all of that said It's difficult many times when a potential customer likes to set on a computer doing research and comes across sites like Rochford and sees prices that we would be paying, especially AFTER I provide a quote. I don't begrudge them for being frugal, but I always let them know the price is what it is and don't expect me to bend from what I told you.

Back when I did body work I quoted a front end damage once. They brought the car, but asked me to not start on it or order parts until they called to make sure they had the insurance check in hand. a few days later here they come with all new parts ordered from e-bay (and much cheaper than I could even pay for them) after wanting me to adjust the estimate accordingly, I politely declined and said it wasn't worth my time to even attempt to explain why I wouldn't do a straight deduction for the parts they brought in and that it's best the car goes down the road to another shop.

Kyle

[scarab29]

Back on topic , I have a warehouse that has a retail store. I use them as a last resort. You feed the bear , he gets bigger and eventually eats you !! Retailers who do wholesale business are trying to keep their numbers up and turn enough product to glom the extra discount. I too would like to buy direct at a better price but being a small shop , I need distributors. I have no interest in becoming a distributor. The internet is another story all together. Don't get me started there. I've found the easiest way to battle price wars there is to bump the labor for customers bringing parts to me for installation. My other avenue is trying to make the customer understand that I am a spet in what I do. They came to me for that service and i do charge for my services accordingly. Don't forget to ask the customer for their business too , sometimes that is all it takes.

[BigJohn]

                              LET THE FIREWORKS BEGIN

    The point I'd like to bring up is many people on this board started in upholstery without a tax number or business license as some refer to it, and many remain without a number paying tax as they go due to the small volume they do. Thru my past experience in another industry I was made aware of Blue. Green, and Buff price lists all with different mark ups and I'm sure a similar system is at work with many of our suppliers.

    I'm against trying to regulate small upstarts and hobbyists out of existence but rather I believe a better way of competing is to offer a better quality product and knowledge than the other guy at a fair but not always a lower price. If demand for your professional services dwindles so low that you fear the addition of a moonlighter/part timer in your area will put you out of business then maybe it's time to diversify or move.

    You can draw a line in the sand and try to deny your supplier the ability to make a living by blackballing them, but you'll only contribute to the further shrinking of the supply chain as fewer and fewer customers are available to them in this throw away society. This all goes back to much the same scenario as I posted about in the auto parts industry.

    I'd like to hear from all the posters on this message, did you get a tax number before you started sewing and do you have one now?

[Joys Shop]

When I first went into business, way in the last century  ::), I didn't have a tax number.
I paid tax on the wholesale fabric.
Illinois does not require you to collect tax on fabric when it goes on a piece of furniture.  You only have to collect, and pay, if you sell the fabric separate to the customer, for them to put onto something themselves
The tax I paid on the wholesale fabric went to the state that the purchase came from
but
I eventually got a tax number, and incorporated
I now collect tax, and pay it to the state
and pay no tax to the supplier

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

One of he biggest slams to the Mom and Pop places have been E-Slay. They have killed alot of the businesses out there who have store fronts like Bob and Greg. They cannot compete on price in some cases because these e-bay sellers have no office or storefront so therefore their operating costs are much less then Bob or Greg's shops.

E-Bay has been great in some ways but damaging in other ways.

Chris

Thank you very sincerely for your consideration, but I don't see this entirely as true.

Do I have a store front, and stock items?  YES.  Do I offer support, and spend time with people who show up or call?  YES.  But this does not in anyway shape or form push me to the top of scrap heap.  Does an EBay change the way we do our business?  Sure it does.  Some good, some bad.  BTW...I, too, sell products on EBay! 

When my folks started our business, you could open up the telephone book for Philadelphia and see 26 sewing machine dealers listed who do exactly what we do.  You NEVER had to leave the greater Philly area to find customers or work.  Today, in contrast, relying only on local yokel business would be suicide.  We HAD to find customers outside of our area, and in fact many today are.  There may be a local car mechanic or body shop, but there is not a competent sewing machine dealer on every street corner, next to your Chinese food or pizza shop.  In fact, you can drive through many states before you find someone in some areas of the US.

[Mojo]

Greg:

No offense but I do not see how you or Bob cam compete with some of the importers. A perfect example is M bobbins. Kevin and I just paid $ 18 dollars for one hundred of the black bobbins. If you or Bob can sell them that cheap then bring it. :)

I was surprised to see that Bob was offering feet for less then $ 20. They are the nice chrome finished heavy models. I was buying them off E-Slay for $ 14 - 16 dollars and basically they are the same feet. Chrome and very heavy duty. I will gladly pay him or you a few extra bucks to order these feet. I just didn't realize the prices dropped like they did.

I know you both offer excellent service, something E-bay sellers do not offer, but many times people shop on price alone. How much service can you offer on bobbins and welt feet ? What I was trying to say is that these e-bayers have driven prices down and have hurt the mom and pop shops margins.

A perfect example is the Consew 206rb5. Your price is more then what you can find on E-Bay ( I just echked your site and your higher then several of the e-bay sellers ). So now you need to match that price for a shopper who is looking at price alone. ( Remember you said you will match prices ). So you match the price and what happens ? Your margins drop which equals less profit. Do you now see what I am saying ? before E-Bay you could set a price and not have to match some importer on E-Bay and enjoying healthy margins.

Yes I know all about the service you provide and no one is going to argue that fact with you. But the fact is you could offer to mow John Doe Buyers lawn for him and he will still shop based on price alone. You can beat service into some peoples heads and it wont matter. The end dollar amount is all that matters to them.

I was not trying to dice you or Bob's mom and pop shop. In fact I was trying to stick up for your predicament because I truly feel bad for you both because of the onslaught of cheap prices brought on by these e-bayers. If you took offense to that I apologize. Kindly give me your address and I will gladly ship you some ............lol.......... :P I was on your side with this so chill out young man. :)

It is extremely tough for the Mom and Pop's. They have alot of overhead that some importer does not have. They buy in smaller quantities which equates to slightly higher prices. I do not envy you and Bob at all in some of these situations as the competition is tough and in many cases the playing field is not level.

So what I am saying is E-Bay has not been a pleasant experience in many cases for the store front owners. It has demanded that they change their operating practices and obviously you figured out one of the clues to being successful............sell on e-bay. If you cannot beat em..screw it......join em.  ;D

Chris

[christwo]

I got a tax number before I even started doing business for the sole purpose of getting a contract with a wholesale supplier. All the suppliers I inquired with required a taxid number to open a wholesale account.

[BigJohn]

     Yes Chris but that same importer deals in quantity on just several items not the broad spectrum of items that Bob or Gregg stock and sell. Yes they are hurt by that flash in the pan importer on a few items but Bob & Gregg still have a place in the market offering a full service supply house and service to back it up.

     The computer age has made it much more obvious that merchants are seeking more than one market, we do a search and we find advertising that isn't aimed at us but yet it's hard to ignore a good deal as well as it's hard for a merchant to turn away a sale.

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

Greg:

No offense but I do not see how you or Bob cam compete with some of the importers. A perfect example is M bobbins. Kevin and I just paid $ 18 dollars for one hundred of the black bobbins. If you or Bob can sell them that cheap then bring it. :)  No offence ever taken by you, I'll check my cost.

I was surprised to see that Bob was offering feet for less then $ 20. They are the nice chrome finished heavy models. I was buying them off E-Slay for $ 14 - 16 dollars and basically they are the same feet. Chrome and very heavy duty. I will gladly pay him or you a few extra bucks to order these feet. I just didn't realize the prices dropped like they did.  Again, people are free to charge what they want.

I know you both offer excellent service, something E-bay sellers do not offer, but many times people shop on price alone. How much service can you offer on bobbins and welt feet ? What I was trying to say is that these e-bayers have driven prices down and have hurt the mom and pop shops margins. I'm quite aware many people shop on price alone.  I make it a point to find out what my competors are up to best I can.  In terms of service, I spend probally more time answering to the best of my ablity questions about presser feet than anything else.  You are thinking becasue I post on an upolstery message board that all of my customer are sewing canvas, upholstery, and auto trim.  This group only represents a portion of sewers that we service.  You have no idea what kind of feet tailors, alteration shops, dress makers, custom home furnishings, drapery workrooms, or many other types of customers I can think off the top of my head after 11:00PM use.  That's not to metion the custom feet we have made domestially, or the standard foot set I ground, polished and gun blued this morning for a customers speical request on his walking foot.  Bobbin questions come up a lot, too.

A perfect example is the Consew 206rb5. Your price is more then what you can find on E-Bay ( I just echked your site and your higher then several of the e-bay sellers ). So now you need to match that price for a shopper who is looking at price alone. ( Remember you said you will match prices ). So you match the price and what happens ? Your margins drop which equals less profit. Do you now see what I am saying ? before E-Bay you could set a price and not have to match some importer on E-Bay and enjoying healthy margins.  Understood, but we have been dealing with competitors WAY before Ebay and Craigslist, but understand your point fully.  I'm rarely price matching an importer.  As for Consew 206RB-5s go, a great example...we buy them by the dozen, and it's one of our best selling machines.  I prefer to take stock of the machine, sew it off, offer lamp options, stand options, and motor options.  We set up the stand, knee lifter, pan, legs, motor, the right way, so the customer can use it the way it's intended.  We offer the customer value.  I can EASILY buy em', drop ship them direct, never see them, touch them, and make my way that way, and compete with EBayers all day long.  I'll have them call you when they need out of the box service on thier machine, or can't figure out how to put thier new stand together.  BTW, they would be the 1st to bad mouth me and ruin my rep on Get-Up-And-Go!@#  

Yes I know all about the service you provide and no one is going to argue that fact with you. But the fact is you could offer to mow John Doe Buyers lawn for him and he will still shop based on price alone. You can beat service into some peoples heads and it wont matter. The end dollar amount is all that matters to them.

I was not trying to dice you or Bob's mom and pop shop. In fact I was trying to stick up for your predicament because I truly feel bad for you both because of the onslaught of cheap prices brought on by these e-bayers. If you took offense to that I apologize. Kindly give me your address and I will gladly ship you some ............lol.......... :P I was on your side with this so chill out young man. :)  Again, never taken offence to any of your posts, and I'm chill as a cucumber.

It is extremely tough for the Mom and Pop's. They have alot of overhead that some importer does not have. They buy in smaller quantities which equates to slightly higher prices. I do not envy you and Bob at all in some of these situations as the competition is tough and in many cases the playing field is not level.  No idea why you think I buy in small quanitity or even worse, don't know how to buy.  

[Mojo]

Greg:

LOL.................. You crack me up.

When is the last time you bought 500,000 bobbins ? Or 200 servo motors ? Or 10,000 welt feet ?

Those are the quantities I am talking about.

I checked into importing some hand tools for a client of mine a few years back. Minimum order direct from  the Chinese manufacturer was 10,000. Another tool was 20,000. And another was 30,000. The prices were drop dead cheap but my client had no way to move that many tools. So he bought from a middle man.
I am curious do you or Bob import anything directly from the factories in China  ? ( Just curious )

Your right a lot of the e-slayer sellers drop ship machines. They never even see the machine. All they do is handle the transaction. And you will NOT get service from them either if you have a problem. I know......been there and done that with my Tuffsew and if I ever see that rat bag SOB who sold it to me I will stomp the moose crap out of him. He was a flaming jerk and offered no assistance or help when I had a problem. He took the money and ran. I despise these machine dealers on E-Bay.

The guys who sell the little things like bobbins and feet.....no worries. They do not bother me in the least. But the big ticket item sellers like machine dealers and those who sell servo's etc. I cannot handle. If I could make $ 100 to $ 200 on every machine sale on E-Bay and never see the machine or touch it I would be your next competitor...............lol...... It would beat the hell out of using the machine for a living. :)

Chris

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

Half a million bobbins or 10,000 pressed feet?  Really?  LOL.  Don't know any importer who has that kind of stock of one style bobbin or pressed foot, or who they would sell them to in the next decade.

A more realistic scenario is the 200 motors.  I think I have in total that number in stock, easy including our cluch and other type motors.   and yes at on point I was bringing them in direct when I had a model I really liked.  This was short lived but very good with the motors, but I'll stop there.  That's my business and I'll keep that to myself.  

Good points and questions, but some I don't want to go too far into.   I mean soon people will have me posting international waybills or my shipping log.  I don't have secrets to keep, really, but come on now.

[Mojo]

I know I can get you a good deal on 500,000 bobbins Greg. Give me a chance. :)

Thinking about this all reminds me of the dealer network with cars. Just imagine if GM, Ford and Chrysler allowed the friendly used car dealer on the corner to sell new cars. :)

Now what is funny is I was contacted yesterday by an RV'er wanting to know about awnings and he was wondering if his wife could make them for him on her " vintage, all metal suzy homemaker " machine. I said sure and proceeded to give him a list of materials ( Recacril, tenara, etc. ) he would need. I also told him that exactly how to make them. I told him what tools he would need right down to the thread and needle size. At the end of my e-mail I told him I had no doubt that since your wife had sewn " heavy " materials on this machine before she could probably sew Recacril. And then I explained  in the last sentence that hopefully after going to all that expense that her machine does not damage the thread as it feeds through and into the material ( nicking, scraping and damaging it along the way ).

The point is that John Doe really can go buy all of this stuff online, either through dealers or off e-bay. Think back 20 years ago, it would have been extremely difficult for the consumer to build these awnings because his/her access to the materials would have been hard to get.

Pretty amazing to see how far we have come since Al Gore invented the internet.  ;D

Chris

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

I know I can get you a good deal on 500,000 bobbins Greg. Give me a chance. :)

Thinking about this all reminds me of the dealer network with cars. Just imagine if GM, Ford and Chrysler allowed the friendly used car dealer on the corner to sell new cars. :)

Now what is funny is I was contacted yesterday by an RV'er wanting to know about awnings and he was wondering if his wife could make them for him on her " vintage, all metal suzy homemaker " machine. I said sure and proceeded to give him a list of materials ( Recacril, tenara, etc. ) he would need. I also told him that exactly how to make them. I told him what tools he would need right down to the thread and needle size. At the end of my e-mail I told him I had no doubt that since your wife had sewn " heavy " materials on this machine before she could probably sew Recacril. And then I explained  in the last sentence that hopefully after going to all that expense that her machine does not damage the thread as it feeds through and into the material ( nicking, scraping and damaging it along the way ).

The point is that John Doe really can go buy all of this stuff online, either through dealers or off e-bay. Think back 20 years ago, it would have been extremely difficult for the consumer to build these awnings because his/her access to the materials would have been hard to get.

Pretty amazing to see how far we have come since Al Gore invented the internet.  ;D

Chris

If you like, you can show up, ask me to quote on a quantity of 500,000 bobbins, and then ask for the same price for 100!@#  LOL.

Nice story about 'educating' your potential competition.  I find that when I tell people exactly, in detail, what they need to do in order to accomplish certain things, they find for themselves they are very quickly in over thier head, and need help!

Seriously,all good, thought provoking questions on this thread, and I really enjoy going back and forth answering them.  Makes me think a bit, for sure.  

Anyway, Crhis, have a great day, let me get back to work a bit here.   ;D

BTW...anybody notice I just put up Chandler's entire line of sewing machines on my website.  My new shopping cart software and rudimentary CSS skills are starting to pay off.