Sunbrella 303 High Tech Fabric Guard???

[hdflame]

I just bought a 16 oz spray bottle of this to try on some "Waterproof Cordura" that was not really waterproof!  I have not had a chance to see how it performs yet.

I was also under the impression that it had UV protection too but I don't see it listed on the bottle.

Has anyone used this and could give me your opinion?

Is there any other product that you are using that you like for water proof and UV protection?

[Saddleman]

I use Nikewax's products on my riding gear.

http://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/how_nikwax_works/introduction.php

or

http://www.grangers.co.uk/product_search.cfm

[bobbin]

On awnings and marine canvas we use AquaTex to rejuvenate water repellancy.  The only thing that is "water-proof" are plastics/vinyls... anything woven is treated and is therefore considered, "water repellant".  Water repellancy wears off and can be washed out over time.  Important distinction!

I use it whenever I scrub the canopy I made to cover our deck or whenever I wash the awnings for our home.  It's petroleum based and it smells when you apply it, but the stuff works great!  Best of all, because it sort of wicks over the fabric via the weave you don't have to saturate the fabric to get the benefit.  Great product.  I cover the canopy for our deck with 1/2-3/4 gallon (12'x18', and the canopy is stretched over a ridgepole with a fabric gable on one end, not a shed style awning, so more area to cover).  I apply it with a pressure sprayer and let it dry for several hours before putting the canopy up.  It will kill grass so apply it in the driveway or be careful where you aim the spray nozzle. 

You can buy it in quarts in a squeeze bottle, too.  It's expensive, we charge $60/gallon so it probably costs my employer in the neighborhood of $40-45.  We buy from Tri-Vantage or Bainbridge. 

[Mike8560]

dont you meen Aqua-Tite Bobbin? i just tried some new Aqua-tite green today. il let you know what it think,. it has a bit of a different smell. I really like the smell of the original. this isnt as strong smelling  ::)

[bobbin]

Yup, Mike, that's be the one, lol.  Why can I never remember the name of that product??  I think you will be pleased with it, too.  I've used it for years and it's been great. 

[hdflame]

.....The only thing that is "water-proof" are plastics/vinyls... anything woven is treated and is therefore considered, "water repellant"......

Bobbin,

The Cordura that I bought is listed as Waterproof, Urethane Backed.  I think it is seconds, the urethane coating is VERY thin.  I have bought this material in the past that the coating looked like it was as thick as 4 mil poly!  This material, you can actually see the pattern of the weave of the material.  Some I've bought in the past was slick on the back from the thick coating.  If I hold this new stuff up to the light, you can see through it, before I couldn't see light through it.

You get what you pay for! :o

[Peppy]

We used to use Aquatite but have since switched to 303. Someone told us that Aquatite can only be used on old canvas as it interferes with the factory waterproofing whereas 303 doesn't. Whether thats true or not I don't know, but 303 is awesome stuff too. Smells loke almond cookies or something. Aquatite used to give me a headache. I fill the spray bottles on a mesh screen (like pfifertex but not) over a sink and the overflow 303 has waterproofed the screen so well it holds water. It works.

Bobby 303 also sells 'aerospace protectant' which they say is 'sunscreen for your stuff' It's a different product than the waterproofing. It looks like milk. We got shipped some by mistake and have it on the shelf still since nobody's ever bought it. In fact it went moldy.  'Green' to the core.

[Mike8560]

Sunbrella usd to endorse aqua tite but switch some time ago to 303 what I hard was because the silicone based aqua tite will atract dirt and breakdown the fabric   But if you keep the boat cleaning see no boggie.
I think it's a money thing

on a side note who remembers back when sunbrella site had a FAQs about starch holes weeping water for a time untill dust particles actually plugged the holes?
My customers thought I was crazy till I would show them. But the pag is gone now.

[bobbin]

If you have a solid urethane backing laminated to a woven you effectively have a vinyl!  But they clearly lied about being water-proof, lol.  And let me assure you after making backpacks out of Cordura for several years it's not waterproof, no matter what the manufacturer wants you to believe.  I say that because even the expensive Seamark (Sunbrella laminated to a vinyl backing) degrades, cracks and leaks before something like Stamoid will.  Sometimes you pay good money and still don't get your money's worth!

We use Aqua TITE to replace the factory finish water repellancy treatment.  Generally, we don't have to treat a canvas much before 5 yrs. time, but if it's been washed to remove accumulated grime the life span of the factory finish is more quickly diminished.  My own canopy and awnings come down every year and I give them a bath before putting them away for the winter.  Because I choose to launder them regularly, I've always retreated them for continued water repellancy. 

[hdflame]

Bobbin,

You made mention of several different materials.  If I wanted a heavy weight waterproof material, which one would you, (or anybody else) recommend?

Sounds like it would be Seamark or Stamoid??  I have samples of Sunbrella, but have not seen Seamark or Stamoid.  Where do you get those two from, and is my assumption correct?  Which is best?...Heaviest most waterproof?

[hdflame]

As for the waterproof treatment, I've been reading about them.  I found this on 303's website so you have to take it with a grain of salt.  I'm sure they would point out the benefits of their product, but it does make sense to me.

From this site:
http://www.303products.com/shop303/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=89


Silicone water repellents: These products are not true fabric protectors. You can make your own silicone water repellent product with one part silicone oil and 9 parts mineral spirits. Fabrics treated with a silicone water repellent develop good water repellency, that's true. But silicone water repellents retain a tackiness that attracts dirt. Silicone-treated fabrics soil much more rapidly than untreated fabrics, have zero resistance to oil based stains, bond in oil based stains and make fabrics much more difficult to clean when finally soiled (than untreated). Manufacturers of outdoor fabrics, fabric convertible topping, carpeting and upholstery and breathable outdoor wet weather garments such as Gore-Tex® recommend against silicone water repellent products. Unfortunately, most fabric and leather "water repellent/fabric protector" products available to consumers contain silicone. For full information on silicone water repellent products go back to this link and scroll down to the related text and chart. http://www.303products.com/shop303/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=88

Silicone Water Repellents - How to tell the difference if you are not sure:
One good guideline is price. If a "fabric protector" product has a Manufacturer's Suggested List Price of less than $12.95 per 16 oz, there is a high likely-hood it is a silicone water repellent. To tell for sure, get two bathroom tissues, treat one with 303 High Tech Fabric Guard, treat the other with the product you're unsure of. Allow both to dry completely (speed it up with a hair dryer if in a hurry). After both are completely dried, dribble a few droplets of water on each. Both should bead water. Then put a drop of oil on each (animal, vegetable, mineral or petroleum oil).  The fluoropolymer fabric protector (HTFG) treated tissue will "bead" the oil. On a tissue treated with a silicone water repellent, the oil immediately jets in and spreads.

Any thoughts??

[Peppy]

If I wanted a heavy weight waterproof material, which one would you, (or anybody else) recommend?

Samson.

I don't think there's anything really wrong with sunbrella. I like that it's cloth. I make tents. Top gun is as rubbery as I like to get. Oddyssy is good for light stuff. I abhor Seamark. I say that the 'Seamark' is the little bits of mold that form on the inside of tops. And I know some people love Stamoid, but to my eyes it's the ugliest material that exists. Makes your boat look like a kids pee-proof mattress. I saw it used as a shower curtain in a boat and thought it even looked ugly there.

There was a sales rep showing us some Weather-max? Anyone use it? Supposedly it has waterproofing 'built in' to the weave, and can stand abrasion. It seemed interesting but has been on back order so I haven't seen it yet.

ps- Good link Bobby, interesting stuff!

[hdflame]

Peppy,

Thanks for your comments.

I'm not going to be using it for marine tops.  Right now I'm making a lap robe for a motorcycle "hack" sidecar.  It attaches around the front of the motor and lays across your lap and wraps around the front of your legs.  Keeps you dry and warm in inclement weather.

I'll try to post some pics as soon as I can.

For that, I need something heavy and waterproof.  I may even make it double layer all over.  It will definitely be double layer in some parts.  The rubber/urethane backing cannot be too heavy as far as I'm concerned.