Understanding Coil Zippers?

[baileyuph]

Imagine a length of coil zipper laying on a table in front of you.  There are two zipper pulls threaded on the coil zipper with their trailing edges butt joined.  This means that pulling the two zippers apart actually closes the zipper in both directions.

With that situation, how are the zipper pulles threaded onto the coil zipper?

It is clear to me that if the coil is separated, the two ends of a separated coil can be threaded into the pull which will enable it to close the two halfs.

But, in the initial example the two pulls are closing the coil as they are pulled in opposite directions.  When the two pulls are pulled toward each other, the center of the coil, the coil separates or opens.

I don't know how to recreate this situation , installing the pulls such that they close the coil when pulled in opposite direction and like wise close the coil when the pulls (some call the pulls "races") toward each other.

Anyone got a handle on this issue?

Doyle

[zanepurcell]

you must thread one on the regular way and then thread the second one on backwards right behind it. it helps if you hold it in a was such that you are lifting the puller tab and raising the inner little tab that locks the zipper pull in place when not being pulled.

Zane

[MinUph]

Why you would want to do this in this manner is unknown but if you have the slides off the zipper and open an end place one slide on going in it will close the zipper behind it. Then open the same end and place a slide backwards on the zipper and it will slide to the middle and keep the zipper closed. You will then have what your talking about. I make my zippers like the second slide example as it keeps the zipper closed until I am ready to fill the cushion. Much easier sewing.

[baileyuph]

The short question is:  Are you informing me that a slipper pull (slide/race/etc.)
can be threaded on a closed coil?

I wasn't sure either way but tried to get the slide to go on the closed coil, could not.  I can only get a slide to go on with the two sides of the zipper tape separated.

Paul, this has nothing to do with furniture work, it is sports stuff.  

It can be done, or was done by a factory because the other side the situation exists.  I am still using the original tape and two slides.  

Maybe a new start, but I cannot get a slide to back it's way onto an already closed coil tape.  That is the thust of the dilema.  Never thought zippers came in such variety and types.

Doyle

[JuneC]

The short question is:  Are you informing me that a slipper pull (slide/race/etc.)
can be threaded on a closed coil?

Doyle

Absolutely!  And I did it this way for years.... until I figured out it was easier to put it on an open zipper  :-[

June

[zanepurcell]

out of curiosity, I just did it. it helps to pull on each side of the fabric tape to open the coil once it is inserted in the back of the pull until it stops. so, stick it on backwards until it stops, spread it inside while pulling in opposite directions and then put it the rest of the way in.

Zane

[Darren Henry]

I've done this as well. It's fiddley---As Zane says,once the slider "bottoms out" you have to pull the tapes apart and wiggle the slider and then pull some more and wiggle the slider........Eventually you separate the zipper and pass one side out each entrance.

I always cut my zipper tape longer than usual if I'm doing this in case I mess up a bit of tape pulling it apart. ;)

[sofadoc]

out of curiosity, I just did it. it helps to pull on each side of the fabric tape to open the coil once it is inserted in the back of the pull until it stops. so, stick it on backwards until it stops, spread it inside while pulling in opposite directions and then put it the rest of the way in.

This is the ONLY way that I've ever done it. I'll try the "open" method tomorrow, but I can't imagine it being any easier. I can back a slide onto a closed chain with my eyes closed.
Maybe different types of zipper chain vary in difficulty? I use #4.5 nylon.
Back in the day, we used #4 aluminum (with the red arrows). I always backed the slide on against the arrows. I do it the same way with the nylon, except that I can start the slide on either end 

[gene]

Howdy,

1. I put the slide on a closed zipper and then pull the slide down which opens the zipper. I do this for when I need to sew a zipper into something, such as a knife edge pillow cover.

2. On boxed cushions, I sew the zipper onto the two pieces of fabric. I put the slide onto an open end of the zipper. Then I pull the slide down which closes the zipper and this puts the slide into the middle of a completely closed zipper panel that I can easily sew onto the ends of the boxing. A seamstress showed me how to do this.

I've done enough now that either way is just as easy for me. Which one I do depends on the application.

Next: Doyle, when you say "closed coil" are you referring to a zipper that has stops at both ends?

1. I have on occasion been able to take a slide off such a closed system by prying the slide open a bit. More times than not the slide will break. On jackets the stop is often molded along with the zipper teeth. I have shaved away the stop and slid off the old slide and slid on the new slide and then added a new stop.

2. Christmas is 15 days away.

gene

[baileyuph]

Thanks gang!  It is good news, that it works, the bad news probably is, I am trying to do this with a used zipper and there is some zippers tape fraying going on.

I don't want to cut any off, altering the length is not good.

I knew it was doable with a tooth zipper, metal or plastic but since I was experiencing difficulty with the coil, I had to raise the question.

Like I said, now to get rid of the fraying someway.  Heck I might try separating the coil a bit, because you guys are essentially separating the coil, again coil zipper, with the race, that should be equal to me separating the coil a smidge at the start with my hands.

Thanks again.  everyone.

Doyle

[Mike]

ive done it a couple times for some reasob it is hard to get the tapes to separate.  I hekp someone once how to install a slider easily on open tapes as Darren I always cut a bit longer to start then I insert one side of the tape fitst but if you vut the other side shorter about 1/4" enough to insert the one side then you can easily start the other/with the tape in my left hand  I insert the right side closest to my body with the other side cut. when doing a u zipper with 2 pull facing each other cutting one side like this im able to get the tapes even very important when the two pulls are closed together with now extra length on one side.  if you try toi install a pull without cutting one side short you will see how it is much easier my way . I ce install a pull pretty fast normaly in a smooth motion insert  zip.

[zanepurcell]

http://www.sailrite.com/Installing-a-Zipper-Slider-or-Puller-on-a-Zipper-Video

that might help.

[baileyuph]

As time permits, still working with this issue on coil zippers.  Learning some things, hopefully can report the conclusion soon.

I have learned that coils are a different issue than teeth zippers and the rules are different.

More to learn,

Doyle

[JuneC]

Once the slider "bottoms out" on the closed zipper, if you insert a pin (try a "T" pin) in to the opposite end and pry the first two teeth apart it goes more easily.  Trick is to not let the zip end pull out of the slider while you're doing this. 

June

[baileyuph]

Success! 

I threw this little project aside to work on jobs coming in, just looked at it now and then, then tried a few things.  Today I took what Zane said and pretty much incorporated what June said and Bingo!  Darn thing started sliding through.  I use a seam ripper to get it start spreading but it didn't go because I had spread it to much on one side, then a small flat screw driver pushed it back in to help it pass on through.  I had to pinch myself because it has been on my mind for a while.

I have another one to sew but I am not going to let the slider come off!!!  It was fun but I don't want to pig out on this! ;D

I was working with the existing zipper and sliders and suspect some or most of my difficulty was due to a little shredding and possible deformation in the coils.  It did have a cross seam at the end to tie things off, the needle could have deformed the coil, don't know for sure. 

One thing for sure, it is a lot easier to start at the front of the slider, again this is a coil zipper.  I played with a tooth zipper and it started easier closed than the coil.

Any who, as someone said, that knowledge and 99 cents might get you a cup of coffee at MCDonalds. 

I believe there are more types of zippers than one can imagine, I was working on a factory made decorator pillow couple weeks ago and it had a zipper that was only about 5/32 nds inch wide.  It was a neat little item for the decorator pillow.  It did cause me to wonder what type of foot was used to sew the thing in?  Probably a drop feed of a sort, I do have a couple drop feeds, however.  That can be filed for future reference.

So much to have fun with in this business.  Now, I have a contract to make upscale dining room table covers.  This customer has a patent on them (he said), but he can't explain how to make one.  The corners are like a linen cover, very formal and drape nicely.  This is one of the many projects I have going, too date the count for the year is probably around 300, and still counting. 

For my experience, an upholstery shop is a bit different from when I first started, especially if you look for the specialty products, something that doesn't compete with Walmart. I admit, it does become fun.

Back to the thread, no zippers, well what ever.  LOL.  It was a great feeling to see that slide going on backwards! 

Thanks for all the help.

Doyle