Aerospace 303

[Mojo]

I do not know how many of you are familiar with these products from this company but in the RV industry it is king. Two of their products pertain to boats and RV's and one of these probably also applies to furniture as well.

Their original 303 product is an awesome product to use on vinyl, rubber, etc. It contains no PD's
( Petroleum Distillates ) and offers a 40 spf UV protection. It is used in place of Armor-all which is horrible for vinyl and rubber.

The other product is their Fabric Guard. This is very similar to scotch guard but also provides exceptional UV ray protection. It is the only product that is approved by the fabric manufacturers
( Sattler, Recassen, Sunbrella, etc. ) for use on their products.

The reason why I am mentioning this is because you can order these products in case quantities and sell them as a distributor. There is no charge for being a distributor and they also supply you with free brochures to hand out to customers. I look at it as a service to my customers since they wont have to order it or chase it down at an RV dealership. I am now going to start carrying this product. I thought that maybe you marine and furniture people might also want to sell some of it as well. Wholesale/retail prices will give you about a 4 to 5 dollar per bottle profit. I am exploring the idea of also offering for sale a bottle with each order.

This is the contact info if anyone is interested.

Roger Dyer ( Marketing Manager ) - Roger@303products.com
Phone - 800-223-4303

You can contact Roger and he will e-mail a wholesale price list to you.

Just wanted to drop this info into your lap. For what it is worth. :)

Chris

[Mojo]

This is some useful info on fabrics. I found it interesting. I am going to have to split this into two posts because of the length.

Chris


ALL* outdoor fabrics, INCLUDING automotive fabric convertible topping, come new with a protective "fluoropolymer" fabric finish put on at the mill.  The reason for this protective chemical finish is THREEFOLD:

1)   To resist soiling.  Treated fabrics stay cleaner much longer before soiling
(than untreated fabrics), and clean up easier when finally soiled.
2)   To protect against indelible stains.  Stains that otherwise would be
indelible, are usually quite easily removed from fabric because of this finish.
3)   To provide and maintain water repellency.

No matter what type of outdoor fabric you have or what company manufactured it, the protective fabric finish will diminish over time. Eventually routine care, "cleaning and re-treating", is required.  An informed person will know when to do this by observation....noticing the lessening and, if not done then, inevitably the complete loss of water repellency. It is best to clean and re-treat when diminished water repellency is first noticed. Don't wait until there's no water repellency at all.

Diminishing water repellency is also the time at which when one starts to notice soiling. Diminishing water repellency....often accompanied by the onset of soiling....these are indicators that it is time to clean and "re-treat" the outdoor fabric.

So, should one "treat" outdoor fabric when it is new?  NO.  It is not recommended or necessary.


THE FOLLOWING TEXT

Overview:  What to do for best results with a fluoropolymer fabric protector.

Performance:  With a fluoropolymer fabric protector product one gets performance
on all fabrics except polypropylene. Typically seats and carpeting in an
automobile are NOT this material, though some aftermarket automotive floor mats
are (Reason - Low Price).  Fabric Convertible topping and the better quality
marine canvas, residential, commercial and RV FABRIC awnings and the patio
furniture fabric are all "solution dyed acrylic".  Only fluoropolymer fabric
protector products should be used to "re-treat" outdoor acrylics after cleaning.

A quality fluoropolymer fabric protector is safe and effective for colorfast
fabrics, carpeting, upholstery and other textiles, including:  polyester, nylon,
acrylic, other synthetics, blends, and natural fabrics such as wool, Haitian
cotton and fine silk.

Textiles treated with a high quality fluoropolymer fabric protector are
protected in several ways: Treated materials stay cleaner longer, and clean up
much easier when finally soiled. Protection against both water-based AND
oil-based stains. This includes protection from stains from grease, oils,
lotions, body oils, sweat and other biologics, food and beverages.

NOTE: To get best results with any fluoropolymer fabric protector product, one
must give particular attention to:

[Mojo]

USING ONLY ON A THOROUGHLY CLEAN TEXTILE: Any soiling residue or cleaning agent
residue that is NOT removed from the textile interferes with the bonding and
performance of the fabric protector. With outdoor fabrics this means a thorough
cleaning and a double-thorough rinsing (cleaning agent residues do NOT rinse off
easily). On carpeting, upholstery, furniture fabric, this means cleaning with a
machine extractor and, when the fabric is judged to be "clean", going over it
one more time with water only (to remove cleaning agent residue). On garments,
proper cleaning means a normal cleaning/rinsing cycle followed by at least one
additional rinse cycle.

USING ONLY IN WARM TEMPERATURES: Fabric protector chemistry likes heat. This
means using such products in warm weather...on a hot day and in full sun is
best. 70°F is at the low end of marginal (OK but not good) conditions.  But one
can get good results on outdoor fabrics if the clean, dry textile is positioned
in, and heated up by, the sun. Below 70° or 70° & humid....wait for a better
day. The quicker you can get the treated fabric to dry and cure, the better
bonding and performance is attained. This is why after cleaning and rinsing one
allows textiles to dry completely before treating.

Hints with Garments: In marginal temperatures after the re-treated fabric has
completely dried (and when there is no longer a solvent smell), you can put the
garment in the dryer for about 5 minutes to increase the level of
curing/bonding. (at a temperature no higher than the garment manufacturer
recommends"). Or one can use a hair dryer, passing the hot air back and forth
over the treated garment.  Again, only after the fabric has completely dried and
there is no more "solvent" smell. Of course, when doing the "hot air trick"
avoid touching the textile with the hair dryer itself.
The hot air trick with the hair dryer (only after the treated fabric has dried)
can be used on convertible topping and other smaller outdoor fabric
applications, too.  In marginal conditions this is a good way to enhance the
curing.

Safety:  When using fabric protector products, follow all label instructions,
warnings and cautions. Please read product label instructions fully before use.
Note, with 303 High Tech Fabric Guard all label warnings and cautions no longer
apply when the treated fabric has dried.

Label Instructions...one of the first Main Links on 303's Home page Page: 
http://www.303products.com/shop303/index.cfm/category/169/303-high-tech-fabric-guard-instructions.cfm     



*"All outdoor fabrics".  The main exception with respect to water repellent is
nylon tenting.  Most tenting fabric utilizes what their industry refers to as a
"durable water-repellent(DWR)" which is actually a thin layer of urethane.  This
"DWR" is not permanent, so tenting fabric also needs to be cleaned and
re-treated after a time.  For best results, fluoropolymer fabric protector
products can be used to restore lost repellency.  The same cleaning and
re-treating procedures/rules apply here, too.

*Convertible Topping:  There are two types of convertible topping.  Vinyl and
Fabric.  Care for each is NOT the same.  ALL fabric convertible topping has
ACRYLIC fabric as the top layer.  The inner layer is a water barrier film
(urethane in recent years) and the inside outer layer is the polycotton
headliner.  Fabric convertible topping is finished with a fluoropolymer fabric
protector in the mill for the same reasons as other outdoor fabrics....to resist
soiling and to protect against indelible stains.  CARE for fabric convertible
topping revolves around keeping up the protective chemical finish and is exactly
the SAME as for other outdoor fabrics.

[Bob T]

Ok, count me as one dissenting opinion.  Back about 1999, I ran across the 303 UV Protectant and was impressed by the literature.  I was, and still am, into windsurfing and repair windsurfing sails. It occured to me that since windsurfing sails are degraded by UV, a product like 303 could give sails a lifespan 2, 3, maybe 4 times longer than normal.  So I bought the stuff by gallons and started treating sails with it.  I'd put it in a garden sprayer, hang the sails up, spray them with the 303, and work in the 303 using a soft bristled RV wash brush. At first, it seemed like it was working, but then I got skeptical, so.....I decided to do a test.  
For the test, I mounted strips of sail cloth in an aluminum frame.  I heavily treated one half of each strip with 303 and left the other half unprotected.  Then I put the frame out in my back yard exposing it to the sun.  Every couple of days, I'd move it to a new location to reduce the possibility of "shade" induced error.  Every week or two, I'd spray some water on the sample to simulate rain.  

For the first month, yes, the 303 seemed to offer protection, but not much.  By the end of the 6 month test, the fading of the protected side exactly matched the unprotected side.  Testing the strips for tear strength, I could not tell any difference between the protected side and the unprotected side.  My conclusion was that the 303 did offer some protection, but within a month or so the protection needed to be replaced by recoating.  If you did not recoat, then within a couple months the protected side soon degraded to about the same degree as the unprotected side.  It didn't extend the life of sail making materials by a factor of 2, 3, or 4, but more like just one month.  303 is expensive and my conclusion was it was waaaaay too expensive and ineffective to use to protect windsurfing sails and kitesurfing kites from UV damage.

You can draw your own conclusions, and I do suggest you do your own tests to determine the effectiveness of this product.

[Bob T]

Oops, I must have had a senior moment.  It wasn't in 1999 it was in 2003.  You can see the post I made about the results here:  http://groups.google.com/group/rec.windsurfing/browse_thread/thread/6ca126178bd38943/1b498b43439590d5?lnk=gst&q=303#1b498b43439590d5

[Mojo]

Bob:

Did you use fabric guard or the 303 protectant ? The fabric guard is for fabric where the 303 is designed for rubber, vinyl and hard surfaces.

Chris

[Miami Mike]

Just to let you know we sell all the 303 products as well. The cleaner works great as well.  ; ;D

[Bob T]

If I remember correctly, there was only one 303 product at the time, Aerospace Protectant.  It was not the Fabric Guard.  I bought cases of 12 or 16 oz.  spray bottles and gallons of the stuff to spray.  It looked a bit like skimmed milk when first sprayed out.  I thought that would be good because I thought the white was zinc oxide which is used in many UV sunscreen lotions.  Years ago, it was popular with life guards as a nose protectant.  Remember the "white noses"?

Don't believe the claims of the literature, do your own tests.  See it for yourself.  There's always the possibility they have figured out how to make the stuff work.  

For the record, I hate telling people about a product that doesn't perform as claimed.  It somehow makes me into the villian and makes people feel I must be proven wrong.  Plus... I don't get a single dime for trying to protect people from  claims I can't replicate.  If you love the stuff, good for you! I hope you make a million dollars off it.

[Mojo]

The fabric guard and the protectant are different stuff. The Fabric Guard I believe was developed a few short years ago. I do know that the fabric guard is the only protectant recommended by all the fabric manufacturers - Sunbrella, Recassens and Sattler. It is really good stuff and works great.

The protectant I use on my car's and coach and it works great as well. When I use it the black plastic on my car and truck stay black. When I don't use it or let to much time go by it turns grey and I have to work my azz off to get the grey off.

I know there has been a lot of independent testing of it in the last couple years and the results were very good for both the fabric guard and protectant. I would be curious to see you repeat your testing on the sails with the fabric guard. Want to buy a bottle ? ..............lol......:)

Maybe you got their earlier version and they have since perfected it. But the 303 protectant was never developed for use on cloth type fabric. The fabric guard would probably do what you need to do.

Chris

[Mojo]

Just to let you know we sell all the 303 products as well. The cleaner works great as well.  ; ;D

Mike:

I forgot you sold 303. I remember now that I bought a bottle from you. I bought direct from 303 at wholesale because I was buying case lots so my price was much cheaper. I am going to sell the protectant at $ 20 a bottle which will give me approximately a $ 6 a bottle profit. The Fabric Guard I will only make $ 4.00 a bottle off of.

Chris

[Can-Vas]

Been recommending it for several years now when I finish a job.  Not a great mark-up on the product though...

[Mojo]

Very true. The margins are so slim it has kept me from stocking it for customers. I ordered some case lots simply because I know I will be able to sell out at the upcoming rally. I will probably only stock a few bottles at the shop after the rally as I am sure it wont be a huge seller.

I know a guy who goes around selling 303 products at shows and rallys in many different industries. It is all he does for a living. But I believe he has a special distributing contract with 303 and thus much higher margins.

If I had to rely on 303 sales only I would starve to death. :)

Chris

[Mike]

I tried selling 303 and some  inyl window cleaner atthe shows and money to be nade on the spot but it didn fo assome. Maybe if i did. Demo on the sindow cleaner and had a side. Y sid eof treated and unfreated canvas to catch there interest like this one guy selling that polish that will. Lean tour cars headlight   Mothers i think the mother polish ball.

[Mojo]

I just got off the phone with MiamiMike and discussed the 303 products. They do carry all of the 303 products and their prices are very close to buying directly from the 303 factory. I would assume that us right coasters shipping would be a wash when compared to buying directly from Mike.

I bought two bottles of 303 from Mike a year ago but forgot. I will buy my future 303 products from Miami now that I know he carries it all, stocks it and is competitive on price. It is a sure way to guarantee that I will collect on that free dinner from Mike. :)

He was telling me that he has a Marine fabricator / customer who includes a small 8 oz bottle of protectant with each order. The customers then go back to him to buy more 303 products. The guy is making $ 80 - 100 a week selling this stuff. Not bad and that money would help pay utilities and other costs around the shop. I am always being asked at the seminars I do where to buy the fabric guard and Mike and I discussed the possibly of including a bottle of fabric guard ( 16 oz ) with each order. This is something I am going to strongly consider.

So if you do need any 303 products MiamiMike can hook you up. :)

Chris