Messages

Chris:  Very well said, you are fortunate to have such business savory people to bounce ideas off and get sound advice.  Sound like that son of yours has a bright future ahead of him! 

Darren: I don't think I could be happy anywhere else, probably my down fall.  My sister left the state for greener pastures and is doing very well for herself, but I would spiritually die where she lives.  The marble industry was the big employer here back in the 20's, 30's and into the 40's but is just about dead now.  The town I live in never really recovered, the holes and cranes are all over the place.  When I was a kid we used to climb up into a huge gantry crane and ride it back and forth, should have got my but kicked good for that one.

I have most of the equipment needed to clearing the land.  I bought a chipper to chip up all the brush and limbs.  The chips will be applied over the garden space.   The Back To Eden gardening method uses wood chips as a heavy mulch.  Which in turns creates compost, compost tea and retains and regulates soil moisture along with protecting from soil erosion.  I don't have a sawmill yet, new ones are to expensive for me at the moment, my son is chomping at the bit to start building our own, I do have some old cars sitting around that are starting to look like a sawmill LOL.   At the moment all my efforts are going into rebuilding a dump truck.  It was one of those purchases where half way into it you realize it might have been a better idea to keep looking.  But I'm stuck with it now, it will be a good truck when I'm done, but it's holding me up right now.

Granted you need to reduce 40 pints of sap to get it, but that doesn't have to be an expensive operation.

Unfortunately in order to be Vermont Certified you have to have some very expensive infrastructure in place.  Although expensive is a relative term, it would be expensive for me and I will have to ease into it slowly over time.  Most everyone today uses plastic hose and vacuum pumps. when I do it I want to do it the old fashion way with buckets a wood fired evaporator and turn the operation into a destination for tourist and locals who want to see what Sugaring in Vermont used to be like.  I might even use horses to pull the collection tank, but that one is to be determined at a later date, at least an antique tractor. 

Gene:  You would get an A in business class, I cant argue with your answer its always good to have a plan on paper.  My wife is the same way, she loves to see it all written down, in alphabetical order! LOL I guess the point I was trying to make is that having to have a business plan was being used to discourage the woman, some people become very intimidated by things they know nothing about.  I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from making a formal business plan, or if they don't know how, to research it and learn how to do it.  But I would never tell someone they cant be successful without one either, which is just what the posters were implying. I have actually written several business plans for my upholstery business when I needed to borrow money from a bank.  But I'm not looking for money this time and would rather work for myself than the bank. Yes the points I made are what one would find in a business plan, I just tend to go about it a little different, but thats just me.  Yes we have SCORE in our area and I have also used them in the past, it sounds like you had a better experience than I did, unfortunately the guy I talked with did not understand the upholstery business at all.  I have some friends who are doing a similar business that I am contemplating and I will defiantly be bouncing ideas off them.  Nutritional info on beer bottles?  What a joke.  Maybe they should list if they use GMO's, bet that would nip that in the bud.    I agree they are trying to push the little guy out.   Why don't they try to gain market share by offering a Superior product?  I guess thats to hard.   Vermont passed a law a few years ago now, that lets farmers sell raw milk and we have been buying it ever since.  I don't like that we have to sign a card with our names and address that stays on record with the farmer, but it's a steep in the right direction.  Good info here for anyone who is interested  http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/

I was poking around the internet yesterday, just looking at gardening and farming forums looking to see if any other people are considering the same type of venture as I am. 

I found one place where a lady had posted a question very similar to what I am considering doing, using the same methods that I want to use.  And boy did she get a ration of sh#%!  First out the door was how she needed a business plan, well I understand the importance of a business plan, I studied it extensively in college  and yes you have to have one if you are looking to get a loan from a bank.  But in the real world you can kiss all your best projections goodby once the rubber hits the road.  That said, does not mean anyone should fly by the seat of their pants, it's good to have a plan. You need to know your market, what looks like it might sell, how you are going to produce it, market it and fund it, etc.  This plan can be on paper or in your head, that depends on the person, but unless you are going to a bank it does not have to be a formal business plan and keep ever in mind, all your research may very well be obsolete by the time your operation is up and running.

Next up.  She was ever reminded on just how expensive it was going to be to get started,  all the equipment needed, the tractors, the implements, and don't forget irrigation, water is so expensive and the cost of irrigation infrastructure is so prohibitive!  They asked her questions like "where are you going to get your water?"  "can you drill a well where you live?"  Valid questions you might say, but the people asking these questions have absolutely no idea how the methods she plans on using work.  How come no one ever wonders why the forest does not get watered, but it grows just fine?   

Of course there was some support for her venture, but the thread quickly degenerated into hostile back and forth posts.   Did I find the negative points discouraging?  No way! in fact I found them inspiring!  Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the negative and discouraging comments were all from shills for big ag who are threatened by the movement of locally grown produce and sustainable agriculture in general.  Can you say Monsanto?  I knew you could.  Makes me wish I was 20 again. 

 Keith:  I agree with you, I am also not interested in the work load of dairy farming!  I like the idea of having a Jersey Cow just for our own and raising a couple grass fed beef though.  In order to compete in dairy the operation has to be very large and automated, I don't have that kind of money to invest, nor would I if I did.  Family farms in the 200 acre range once so numerous here in Vermont are struggling just to survive.  I have a feeling that factory farming is going to loose out to small locally grown and harvested produce, they are calling it sustainable agriculture.  call me crazy, but people seam more aware and interested in where their food comes from and what is in it than they did a generation ago.  The methods that many organic farmers are using today have made it possible to grow enough produce for market on only a few acres.  I have been experimenting with them for the past 5 years and grow most all the vegetables our family needs.  I only have to weed for a few hours, and thats for the whole season!  My parents had a organic market garden when I was a kid and the weeding and tilling was a daily chore for all of us, not any more!  When I first started using these new methods my mother did'nt believe it was possible and I will admit I had my failures the first couple of years.  I have the system down now and like I said hardly no weeding this year at all.  What made me think I could actually do this full time for profit was a guy named Jean Martin Fortier this guy grosses like 150 grand a year on only 10 acres without even using a tractor!  Although he does use a walk behind tractor, kind of like a big roto tiller that accepts attachments. he has a lot of interesting YouTube videos and a book.  I bought his book now that it is available in English.  He lives in Quebec Canada and English is not his first language.  Anyone interested in guarding especially vegetables should watch his videos, also the Back To Eden guy named Paul Gautschi, also on YouTube.  Paul is a little bit into the bible, but if you can over look that he has some really great things to say.

Hi Mike:  The buss is still a work in progress.  I have a few things completed but I haven't been working on it much lately. 

Thank you everyone for your insite.

the land I have is all wooded, so I have my work cut out for me and will probably continue working in the upholstery shop for a few more years,

What type(s) of trees do you have? My knee jerk reaction is selective logging and selling specialty wood until you have cleared enough land to start gardening. With your wealth of experience it seems a logical transition. The guys/gals who steam bend wood for example pay huge money for air dried ash, alder, etc...because you can't bend kiln dried wood. 3/4"thick is the most common size and dries fairly quickly so you should be able to pay off a bandsaw type saw mill with the what you dry this winter. There is a guy back in Kenora who has a small saw mill. His claim to fame is that he makes tongue and groove lumber, 1/2 log siding etc... that no one else even brings in. All of the marginal wood can be cut and split into firewood. If there isn't a large call for heating wood in your area, bundle it and sell it at camp sites etc...Locally 7-11 and several service stations sell a bundle about the size of a 10 lb potato sack for your fire pit etc... for around $8-10.

Darren:  I think of you often and remember the difficult times you endured a few years ago, while I go through this. I think your area my be similar to mine.  I have a variety of trees, mixed hardwoods and some softwoods.  Lots of maples, so maple syrup production is something I have been looking into.  We have also been looking at the many different saw mills on the market and possibly building our own. Heating with wood is big here, we have spent a lot of time just collecting dead falls for our own heating.

People have a whole different mindset now. If they had the option of buying quality furniture that would last a generation, they would turn it down.

Doc, you hit the nail right on the head!  I actually had a woman come into my shop and she had me reupholster a piece of @$#% chair with leather.  I explained that with the cost of leather and labor she could actually buy one of my handcrafted chairs for only a couple hundred more and she refused.

I miss it and hope you get to where you want to be in your new venture. Your a great person and deserve this farm and success and a great ending to a long career in stitching.

Thanks Chris:  when I was young, around 13 a young couple rented the farm next door.  Some how I wandered over there and became friends, they were great people and influenced me in ways I wouldn't know for years.  I worked on that farm for 4 years, never expecting any pay, or receiving any.  I got up early to help with milking, after school I cleaned stalls, I learned much.  I even learned how to use a block and tackle to help a cow give birth.  They bought their own farm and moved away, eventually they had 8 kids of their own and are still farming, although their operation has changed over the years.  What once was a large dairy, is now surviving on locally produced produce and milk.  Vermont passed a law that allows farmers to sell raw milk to the public.  Once that happened I became one of their customers.  I am convinced that locally produced produce and agriculture is making a come back and right now is just beginning, especially with the war going on between gmo and non gmo and the labeling.  It's odd, people may be dumb when it comes to furniture, but they seam to want to know whats in their food, on second thought maybe in these hard times people are making choices and decided food is more important than furniture.  Also all the "new" methods coming out for growing organic vegetables is exciting.  Although it's not really new, it was just forgotten during the industrial age, things like wide row raised beds and the Back To Eden method, I just find exciting and inspiring.

I will keep in touch with everyone, I'll let you know just how this all works out. The good, the bad and the ugly! LOL

Thanks guys,

Mike your videos are triple A  - I hope you'll continue with them.  Your name has been mentioned here several times over the last year - but it was all good !

LOL glad to hear it was all good!

Chris:  Thanks for asking, yes we are all doing good.  I hope the same for you and yours. 

Good to hear from you Mike. Whatever you decide to do please check in with us once in a while. I have always enjoyed your posts.

Thanks Kodydog,

SofaDoc:  LOL Don't I wish!  but really Doc, I could never be to rich to hang out with you guys.  It's people like you that make the post I put up on the business section so difficult.

I would like to ask how business is in other areas, but what does it matter how business is in other areas?  In the area I live and work in? it's really bad!  I have had a very successful career in the reupholstering field for over 30 years.  I have upholstered everything from autos, heavy equipment, boats, furniture and added handcrafted furniture to the business over 19 years ago. 

In all this time I have watched the local economy die around me.  When I first went into business I had 5 local competitors,  I hired 4 full time upholsters and rented a store front on a major thruway.  My area had a good manufacturing base, jobs were plentiful for anyone willing to work and the area was in the midst of being rejuvenated. 

The future looked bright, but unfortunately things started to go south, or maybe in this case "east" would be more appropriate.  We started to loose our manufacturing base, slowly at first, but once the dominoes started to fall it went fast.  We only have a few manufactures left now, the only major one is GE.  The mall "our only one" is a ghost mall  the anchor stores have all left except for Kmart.

Over the years as my competitors died, or closed shop, I keep waiting for the influx of customers from my competition to come to me, but it never happened, sure I got a few, but not enough to see a difference.  I am the only upholster left in the area now, I have no employees and work out of my barn that I converted to a workshop.  Work is somewhat steady, but mostly I'm only working part time.  I haven't been putting much effort into handcrafted furniture because it has become a very hard sell. 

My largest account is a furniture store that I do warranted work for, it's steady and I make good money doing it, but I hate working on that junk.  It's so heavy and I feel sorry for the poor delivery guys who bring it into my shop, as I watch the sofas bend in the middle as they carry it.  I am very fortunate that I do not need to survive off what I earn in the business, if I did I would of closed years ago. 

I haven't been around the forum for the past year or so, because I have been seriously considering closing the shop.  It's a very emotional decision, I go back and forth over what to due, but after 30+ years I'm feeling like it's time for a change.  I guess I have already made the decision mentally, but have yet to take the emotional plunge. I have bought a fairly large plot of land and plan to start an organic market gardening business.  Unfortunately the land I have is all wooded, so I have my work cut out for me and will probably continue working in the upholstery shop for a few more years, maybe, if I can take it that long.

So thats my rant!  Upholstery has been good to me and I have enjoyed it over the years, it wasn't all roses as we all know, but overall it's a good life.  If I sound a little bitter, yea I guess I am.  My plans for the future were different 30 years ago, but I guess whose weren't?  I have really enjoyed the friends I have made here, you have all been so helpful in so many different ways and I thank you all for your help and support. 

Mike.

Well, it's been over a year since I last posted here!  Hard to believe I have been away for that long.  Thought I would pop in and tell everyone hello.  I am still in the upholstery and furniture building business at this time and when I was working on a sofa the other day I started thinking of everyone on the forum and realized I hadent been here for a long time and thought I would like to just say hello to you all.  I am going to post more about this in the business section if anyone cares to know why I have been away for so long.

This article says the woman was handcuffed when the cop punched her.

http://rt.com/usa/248125-texas-woman-punched-police/

The maker of this video says the shooting of a black man in the back by a white officer is fake.  He makes a good point that I did not notice, but I thought this video was odd because of how the man getting shot reacts.  I consider myself a rather tough individual in good shape that can take some abuse, but If I got shot in the back with a 45 ACP yea I'd drop like a stone, this guy doesn't. ?

https://youtu.be/ZZkNIZzv8lY

CPS officials had a warrant to remove an 18 month old child from the home because of recent domestic violence allegations. The woman was about a week away from having another child.

The key word here is "Allegations"  Anybody can make a claim to CPS anonymously!  Thus starting a nightmare ordeal for any family.   CPS has, and can do good, but often they are used by people to get at people they dont like, or have a vendetta against.  In this country we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but so often the opposite is true.  How would any of us act if cops showed up to take our children, especially under false allegations?  Obviously the video is only a small peek into the situation and can not give us the whole story, but that woman sounds like an woman would if cops showed up to take her child away.  I supposed the cop feared for his life, I mean one pregnant woman surrounded by a room full of officers, two of them attending to her alone!  I think the guy should have stuck with upholstery.

I only spend around 2 to 3 hours sewing on a furniture project depending on if it has a skirt or not.  Automotive work is much more sewing intensive than furniture.  Most of my time is spent measuring, cutting and applying the fabric.  If I have to match a pattern that time can increase dramatically depending on the complexity of the pattern.  I'm with Sofadoc, sure do wish I could sit down and do trained monkey work on many days.

Wow you guys have a long way to go to catch up to my class, we only have 40 left!  But than again, we only started with 40.

In a past life, when I actually went to work for someone else, we built a table similar to the one in the video.  Except we did'nt glue the top together, we just pegged each board in the center on each bread board end.  That way the expansion and contraction of the boards were visible and you could watch the gaps close and open with the change in seasonal humidity.

as far as Watco go's we only used it on the inside of case pieces because boiled linseed oil needs additional air flow to dry thoroughly than what is available on the inside.  Every time we used that stuff it gave me a splitting headache, I wont have it in my shop.