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Responding to reviews, especially negative ones, is very important.  Calm and rational is important.  A well written response to such a bombastic review will leave the response looking better than the review.

Also, I always encourage anyone who calls to send me an email photo before they drive over to meet me.  And I almost never give sight-unseen prices over the phone.   I don't want that above scenario to happen.  Both the client and business wasted a lot of time and energy.

Yesterday a guy called and asked "how much to reupholster a sectional?"  I went round and round with him, politely, that I couldn't tell him without a picture and dimensions because there are just too many variables, sizes, styles, etc...  He got angry and I finally tried to explain "You might as well ask 'what does a car cost.'  I just can't tell you without knowing a lot more about what you want."  He said "F** it" and hung up.  I don't like that at all, and it still bothers me, but I don't have to worry that I quoted him a generic price, then he shows up with a 3-piece sectional with recliners, tufted with double stitching everywhere...  And wants to know my I can't honor my generic price...  And then goes online and tells the world it's my fault.  Right now, the worst he can say about me is that I don't give prices over the phone.  That's fine, I don't!

So, the banner ad (today?  Always?) is an uffy decorative tack gun.  Anyone have any experience with these?  Do they dramatically improve efficiency?  Is there a compromise in quality (I'm watching the video and perhaps it's wasn't meant to be but it looks like the operator didn't produce a straight line just before they cut the video.)

Thoughts???

That's interesting Crosin, when you quote for a Hotel do you keep this change in efficiency in mind. I'm saying do you charge the normal rate for the first 10 chairs and a discounted rate for the chairs following or do you charge the same rate for all the chairs and put the profit in your pocket. No mater how much schmoozing I do I haven't done a hotel job in years and am pretty sure its because the competition always under bids me. Maybe I'm not thinking right.

My bid price reflects the efficiency, and specifically to your point I price all the items in the job as if I'm efficient.  It follows the old advice that you never pass your problems on to your clients.  That I'm inefficient to start is my problem.  I never think "Am I loosing money on one piece?"  I always think "am I making money on the project?"  I've been running the shop for 12yrs and we do usually 2-3 big jobs (like $80k+) a year so we've got some experience.  A 2-man crew can strip, tack up and finish (stuff cushions) in just about 2hrs once we're moving.  (We cut and sew everything in advance but I know the costs involved in that pretty well too.)   

To tackle big jobs, I think in mass.  I get a sample piece.  I sometimes offer to do the sample for free in fact because it teaches me a lot about how to bid.  I break it down into phases, cutting, sewing, tacking, touch up.  (That's actually the division of labor in our shop too.)  I then tackle each phase as fast as possible but completing each phase before moving on.  That tells me what each laborer can do (cutting is a little different because when we cut a big job we're rolling out multiple layers and using a bigger electric cutter, but I generally assume $1/per piece to cut is about right...)  Tracking each task and not trying to multitask makes it very clear to me what each phase costs.

The reason I don't jump around like I normally would is that you loose a lot of efficiency moving around the shop, stopping and starting, etc...  Even simple things like setting down the stapler and walking over to the sewing machine to sit down... 

If you spend the time up front to shmooze / form relationships, do you go back after you aren't awarded the job and ask why you weren't?  Commercial work involves a lot of factors - insurance, trust, confidence, price, previous history, etc...  I find once I'm the embedded vendor, price is usually not the deciding factor.

Well we started off the year busy as could be, but things have tapered off a bit so I'm drumming up new business.  Got a call from a good client asking if we could do wall panel upholstery.  So, I go see them and they want an elevator cab reupholstered.  Anyone done that?  Know how it's done?  We're about to find out, but if possible I prefer not to learn in front of the client!

Jeff

Does anyone have a booth pricing formula that sonsistently works for pricing large jobs?  When I first started 12yrs ago, someone told me to use $45/ln foot for standard plain straight booths to do seat&back... So, that's what I've consistently based my pricing on.  But corners/curved booths, high backs, etc...  I don't have standards for those. 

Thoughts?  Do you just wing it?

Most of my work is COM, someone else does the fabric purchasing.

I know I'm bumping an old thread but one of my first business partners told me to try and obtain a 4x multiple on job costs to get the sales price.  For a service business, that works out pretty well.  If you are doing the work yourself, you should figure what it costs to hire an upholsterer in your area and pretend your paying him to do the work instead of yourself.

For COM jobs, I've met several shop owners who charge a COM fee per yard.  They explain to their clients that they roll out the fabric, inspect for damage & flaws, and are always taking a risk (customer's fabric in your shop becomes a liability to you)...  That justifies the fee.  $7/$8 per yard is a reasonable fee but can range from $5-$10.  Basically, it covers what you lost by not selling them the fabric.  You can also bury this fee in the labor cost if you know up front it's a COM job but most times you don't.

As for commercial jobs, LOVE THEM.  After 10 dining chairs or 10 whatevers, the shop efficiency goes through the roof.  We get a lot of hotel jobs.

Holy cow, how in the world did he move the thing!?  I've looked at moving them when a client one time asked if we could refurbish all the metal work too.  I quickly decided I wanted no part of it.  They were in a second floor clinic and I seriously wondered if the elevator was load-rated for as much as that thing weighed!

Thanks for the response.   I really appreciate the insight.  These odd-ball items I always wonder if I'm in the right "neck of the woods" on pricing.

Jeff

Anyone do these as a business and if so, would you care to talk method and prices?

I'll go first.  We're doing one that we just bid at $500.  I'm planning to go onsite, pull all the panels off, bring them back to the shop and upholster.  Then go back onsite and reinstall.  Figure it'll take about $100 in vinyl.  I'm thinking I charged too little but I'll see soon!

But, the thing that got me thinking is the client will be without a chair for a week.  This time it's okay, but does anyone do these without taking a chair out of service?  Is there a better method?  I've done a little research and there seem to be a few guys doing these things who have patterns all premade and will ship you new upholstery/foam/backing so all you do is screw on new panels.  But I'm guessing that's pretty impressively expensive!

Anyway, just curious.

IMHO, you need to contact some distributors and talk to a sales person not just the guy who picks up the phone.  I don't use Miami and maybe I'm breaking protocol, but I do buy quite a bit of vinyl.  I go through Keyston Brothers - they have branches in several states.  (You can call Dallas and ask for Pete if you want 214-765-6360 -- tell him Jeff from Markham sent you).

Keyston has a 3 roll set price and it's around 20%-30% less than 1yd.  But just as often, I find that calling three different suppliers will get me three different prices with significant variation.  Douglas Industries in New Jersey is another good low-cost source.

As far as I can tell, the bigger the distributor, the bigger their discount is from the manufacturer--and that means the better your able to get discounts.

I can tell you though, you need to buy literally truck-loads of vinyl on a routine basis to get to the mills.  I work with clients who order 500-1000yards at a time for hotel renovations...  They can't order from the mill because they don't qualify in terms of regular volume.  (And often they get 50%-off list straight discount pricing.)

Doing commercial work, you should be familiar with fire retardant specs.  Anything you install (foam & fabric) should be CAL-117 (a common standard) or whatever your local standards require.  And aviation work apparently requires a whole load of specific regulation requirement of which I know nothing.  Maybe someone here does?

I always ask for a 50% deposit on commercial work (50% deposit, 50% balance net 30) because you basically have no recourse if a client doesn't pay (not entirely true, but hopefully you'll never experience finding out!)  And having the deposit cushions the anger/anguish over some client's liberal use of NET-30 terms on the balance.

Also, know your client.  If it's a small GC, a small restaurant owner, etc...  I'll ask for 50% completion payment on delivery instead of NET 30.  Especially if it's a first time client.  Sometimes, I waive the deposit if they will issue me a check (or pay via CC) on completion -- this is particularly effective with small businesses who will usually slap it on a credit card. 

Don't be afraid to ask to be paid upfront if you get the feeling your restaurant job is owned by a couple of sleezy operators who are never going to pay you and sell the business as fast as they can open it.  That happens.  If they won't pay you up front, be prepared to walk away -> better to leave empty handed than leave empty handed after you've done the work!

And I've had the opposite experience of most of the people here.  I'd rather work for a slow-paying hospital any day (doing 100 cookie-cutter lobby chairs) than work in the restaurant where, at least here in Dallas, I worry a lot about getting paid at the end of the job.  I've NEVER been left unpaid by a hospital.  I definitely have in restaurants (and worse, clubs/bars.)

Every shop does it differently.  There aren't particular right or wrong answers.  However, when I've had people come in who can only sew and can't cut or make patterns, I generally find their real experience is in garments.  They may make or have made slip covers but not as their primary business.

In my area, there is a lot of competition.  Someone who isn't familiar with the in's and out's of upholstery isn't worth hiring.  And I've learned it takes one or two bad reviews from "average" work online to do damage to my overall business.

I don't agree that anyone can sit behind a sewing machine and seam.  Not at all.  Getting the tension right to eliminate puckers, doing corners properly, etc...  Like most trades, the knowledge itself isn't hard, but it takes practice, experience and a willingness to do it over and over.

Jeff

Congratulations on bringing in an experienced employee, getting a great deal on tools and avoiding any complications in ownership/partnership.  Sounds like a fantastic week!

Jeff

Does anyone here regularly work with leather or do upholstery work which involves a double stitch?

I've thought about buying a double needle machine but never have.  One of the questions I have a hard time with is how best, and what machine to use, to handle leather box cushions for sofas.  Do you need a split-needle bar?  Walking Foot?

Any advice or help would be much appreciated.  Those things aren't cheap!

Jeff

As I read this thread I thought "No money, no tools, no business -- this guy is offering you *what* for a share of your business?"  I don't think you really are getting a partner because he can't share in the financial risks of the business - the worst partner in the world is a guy with no financial skin in the game.  Maybe he's a salesman with contacts in the design community, maybe an upholsterer with serious skills.  (Maybe both!)  But is it really a partner?  If you have a business, you have value and you need to be compensated for that existing value.  It doesn't sound like he's in a position to do that.

I second everything else that has already been said - particularly bring him in slowly (think contractor or employee).  Be honest about what your doing and why.

Jeff

I've bought several electric staplers and haven't found one that reliably drive staples into hardware frames.  Does you DuoFast?  Or do you hammer staples in the last 1/8"?  Any other brands anyone recommends?  I've purchased a small Makita compressor (really nice - takes oil but relatively quiet and efficient compared to most small compressors) for portability but would love to know if there is a reliable stapler that can be used.  We do a lot of commercial work also, so a fast recovery rate is also important.

Thanks,
Jeff