I would like to ask how business is in other areas, but what does it matter how business is in other areas? In the area I live and work in? it's really bad! I have had a very successful career in the reupholstering field for over 30 years. I have upholstered everything from autos, heavy equipment, boats, furniture and added handcrafted furniture to the business over 19 years ago.
In all this time I have watched the local economy die around me. When I first went into business I had 5 local competitors, I hired 4 full time upholsters and rented a store front on a major thruway. My area had a good manufacturing base, jobs were plentiful for anyone willing to work and the area was in the midst of being rejuvenated.
The future looked bright, but unfortunately things started to go south, or maybe in this case "east" would be more appropriate. We started to loose our manufacturing base, slowly at first, but once the dominoes started to fall it went fast. We only have a few manufactures left now, the only major one is GE. The mall "our only one" is a ghost mall the anchor stores have all left except for Kmart.
Over the years as my competitors died, or closed shop, I keep waiting for the influx of customers from my competition to come to me, but it never happened, sure I got a few, but not enough to see a difference. I am the only upholster left in the area now, I have no employees and work out of my barn that I converted to a workshop. Work is somewhat steady, but mostly I'm only working part time. I haven't been putting much effort into handcrafted furniture because it has become a very hard sell.
My largest account is a furniture store that I do warranted work for, it's steady and I make good money doing it, but I hate working on that junk. It's so heavy and I feel sorry for the poor delivery guys who bring it into my shop, as I watch the sofas bend in the middle as they carry it. I am very fortunate that I do not need to survive off what I earn in the business, if I did I would of closed years ago.
I haven't been around the forum for the past year or so, because I have been seriously considering closing the shop. It's a very emotional decision, I go back and forth over what to due, but after 30+ years I'm feeling like it's time for a change. I guess I have already made the decision mentally, but have yet to take the emotional plunge. I have bought a fairly large plot of land and plan to start an organic market gardening business. Unfortunately the land I have is all wooded, so I have my work cut out for me and will probably continue working in the upholstery shop for a few more years, maybe, if I can take it that long.
So thats my rant! Upholstery has been good to me and I have enjoyed it over the years, it wasn't all roses as we all know, but overall it's a good life. If I sound a little bitter, yea I guess I am. My plans for the future were different 30 years ago, but I guess whose weren't? I have really enjoyed the friends I have made here, you have all been so helpful in so many different ways and I thank you all for your help and support.
Mike.
I don't know if it's this administration - your area specifically - or the availability of cheap web furniture.
Years ago I was a little slow and went to work 2 days a week for a cabinet shop that was swamped. He made furniture and displays for macy's - Bonwit tellers - Hermans - Lord + Taylors and a few others. I kept my business going the remaining days and when I finally was busy on my own I left the shop.
We're still friends although he is about 85 - retiring, and the kids aren't interested. Mike you can do anything and if it farming we're loosing a top craftsman - Organic weed ! I mean gardening - that will be a change !
SA
I did some work for a husband and wife retail store a few years ago. They lost their lease and decided to take some time off. They were very busy during their "store closing" sale and even ordered a bunch of new inventory in. I did work in the store, in their warehouse, and even a job or two in their home.
They specialized in Southwest furniture and a couple of times a year, he'd fly down to Mexico and pick out some goods, rent a truck and drive them back.
A couple of years later. they bought the lease from another infrequent customer and re-opened. About six months later I heard on the news that they had arrested a group of people for selling pot at a local high school. Turns out the guy I worked for had a hydroponic pot growing facility in his subsequent warehouse. He got out in about 5 years and shortly thereafter, he and the Mrs. closed their second store.
So I guess he want from furniture retail to drug smuggling to farming, in a way.
I've always had more work than I could do.
But then again, there used to be about 10 multi-employee shops within a 25 mile radius of me that could've said the same thing.
Now, there are only a few individuals working from their garage.
So basically, as the other shops fold up, it means more for me.
If I had any real competition, I'd be starving.
People have a whole different mindset now. If they had the option of buying quality furniture that would last a generation, they would turn it down.
Would you buy a piece of electronics that was made to last 20 years? Probably not. Because even if it did, the technology would be obsolete. People feel the same way about furniture styles.
A lot of upholsterers feel the same way you do. They have no sense of satisfaction for working on cheap junk.
I still do a few quality pieces here and there. But for the most part, I'm doing mid-grade stuff that used to be considered low-grade (before the furniture industry set a whole new standard for low-grade).
I swallowed my pride a long time ago, and now I make more money in less time than I ever made doing high-end furniture.
There just aren't enough quality frames left in all the Grandma's houses of America.
I certainly understand your frustration.
But as far as I'm concerned, everyone else can have their sense of pride and satisfaction, I'll take the money.
Good luck in whatever endeavors you choose.
Hey Mike,
I went through what your talking about around 17 years ago. Wholy crap where does the time go. Anyway I was in business for 30 years, and always said "if I have to cut corners to make it work I'll close the doors" Well that time came and I did just that. I was kinda burnt out with Upholstery anyway. I did some other things for around 10 yrs., entered the corporate world for 7 and found I wasn't into that crap. Moved to Florida, and after a couple years took a job back in the business. Loved it again and ended up buying the shop.
Ya never know where life will take you. As long as it still takes you places you enjoy well I'm happy. You will work it all out and I hope you do what makes you happy as that is the most important thing. Money isn't everything. Thats one real lesson I learned from the corporate world.
Keep in touch no matter what you do.
Quote from: sofadoc on July 16, 2016, 02:58:06 pm
People have a whole different mindset now. If they had the option of buying quality furniture that would last a generation, they would turn it down.
Preach it brother. That's why when you get the occasional customer like the one we went to yesterday you let out a big old hallelujah.
We were sent to her house by the furniture store. When you push down on the center of the arm you can hear (and feel) a clicking sound. You can feel the wood rails on these rolled arms which is another problem but inbetween the rails is where the noise comes from. Also the sofa is less then 1 year old and the cushions are starting to crush. The back cushions, all loose fill are flat and so are all the toss pillows. Broyhill sent new foam for the seat cushions which is a waist of time. Re-stuffing with the same foam? The furniture store said Broyhill will not pay for the repairs.
The customer kept saying she wished she had never bought new. Except for the new sofa and LS her house is full of retro and vintage furniture She took us for a tour and showed us some really nice pieces she wants recovered including 4 Gunlock chairs for her breakfast nook. She wanted us to recover a fainting couch right away so we put her on the schedule.
As for the new Sofa and LS, we'll send an estimate tomorrow, its going to be a lot of work and I doubt the furniture store will want to pay. The customer told us she just wants the store to take it back.
Mike, It seems like the last 10 years our workload has been spotty. And last April the spigot turned completely off. We were out of work and the phone stopped ringing. I kept telling Rose this well last only a week or two. Then three and then four weeks went by. I panicked and took a part time job with a company who is rebuilding the buses for Life South blood mobiles. As soon as I took this job the phone started ringing again. Good solid jobs that had us soon booking into September. I am now working full time for myself again.
While I was sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring I spent a lot of time on the internet learning about SEO to get my web page closer to the top of a google search. I also spent a lot of time building my online presence. I started a Google for Business page, A Bing page and pages on any "free" business page I could find like YP and Manta. A page on Houzz helped me land two new interior designers. We also had a fellow from SCORE drop by with some great info about SEO. He explained what Googles crawlers are looking for when someone does a search for upholsterers in my area. I spent a lot of time creating new pages for my websit explaining the difference between store bought furniture and what I have to offer. I made a page explaining why Ladd Upholstery Designs is the upholsterer they want to use.
The other thing I have done over the last 30 years is my other part time job. Buying fixer upper houses and reselling them. So while I was waiting for the phone to ring i also spent time working on my current house.
I'm thinking it seems a shame to completely shut down your business and couldn't you keep your business going while you create this new business. Operate two different business at the same time. Do the organic market gardening business during the summer months and build up enough furniture work to get you through the winter months? Just thinking.
I know the feeling of burn out, I think we've all been there. There is nothing like digging in the dirt to help get your head straight.
Whatever you choose I'm sure you'll be successful. BTW my wife is big on eating organic. There is a lady at our local farmers market who grows sprouts and sells out every weekend. Good Luck.
I hear you. while the paper mill in kenora was a major employer, it was not the only show in town. People, however, felt it was so when it closed the entire economy of Kenora went south. there is still tourism and natural resources but no body is spending money even this many years later. That's why I'm here in Brandon Manitoba. Most of what I do is mindless repairs on junk, but it pays the bills and occasionally I get to do a cool project.
Quotethe land I have is all wooded, so I have my work cut out for me and will probably continue working in the upholstery shop for a few more years,
What type(s) of trees do you have? My knee jerk reaction is selective logging and selling specialty wood until you have cleared enough land to start gardening. With your wealth of experience it seems a logical transition. The guys/gals who steam bend wood for example pay huge money for air dried ash, alder, etc...because you can't bend kiln dried wood. 3/4"thick is the most common size and dries fairly quickly so you should be able to pay off a bandsaw type saw mill with the what you dry this winter. There is a guy back in Kenora who has a small saw mill. His claim to fame is that he makes tongue and groove lumber, 1/2 log siding etc... that no one else even brings in. All of the marginal wood can be cut and split into firewood. If there isn't a large call for heating wood in your area, bundle it and sell it at camp sites etc...Locally 7-11 and several service stations sell a bundle about the size of a 10 lb potato sack for your fire pit etc... for around $8-10.
Now if you want to get really "Tom Sawyer" about it, get the government to pay for it. I'm sure your government works much the same as ours in that some of their departments will invest in training and infrastructure to employ the less employable. Visible minorities, intellectually challenged, chronic young offenders etc...
what ever you choose to do I know you'll do fine. Thanks for "coming back to the fold" and sharing with us. We all miss your company and your insight.
Mike:
I think there comes a time in our life when we have to follow our dreams and desires. I would love to go back to farming as I miss it. I miss being in the field or in the barn with livestock. The older I get the more I appreciate the farming life. Besides, I always got along better with animals then people. :)
It was hard work but a simple way of life but it was a great escape from the corporate world for me. I farmed part time back then boarding horses, running cattle, raising hogs, chickens and goats. Back then I could handle working full time in the corporate world and farming at night and weekends. I could burn the candle at both ends back then. Today, that schedule would kill me.
I miss it and hope you get to where you want to be in your new venture. Your a great person and deserve this farm and success and a great ending to a long career in stitching.
Wishing you the very best Mike.
Chris
Thank you everyone for your insite.
Quotethe land I have is all wooded, so I have my work cut out for me and will probably continue working in the upholstery shop for a few more years,
QuoteWhat type(s) of trees do you have? My knee jerk reaction is selective logging and selling specialty wood until you have cleared enough land to start gardening. With your wealth of experience it seems a logical transition. The guys/gals who steam bend wood for example pay huge money for air dried ash, alder, etc...because you can't bend kiln dried wood. 3/4"thick is the most common size and dries fairly quickly so you should be able to pay off a bandsaw type saw mill with the what you dry this winter. There is a guy back in Kenora who has a small saw mill. His claim to fame is that he makes tongue and groove lumber, 1/2 log siding etc... that no one else even brings in. All of the marginal wood can be cut and split into firewood. If there isn't a large call for heating wood in your area, bundle it and sell it at camp sites etc...Locally 7-11 and several service stations sell a bundle about the size of a 10 lb potato sack for your fire pit etc... for around $8-10.
Darren: I think of you often and remember the difficult times you endured a few years ago, while I go through this. I think your area my be similar to mine. I have a variety of trees, mixed hardwoods and some softwoods. Lots of maples, so maple syrup production is something I have been looking into. We have also been looking at the many different saw mills on the market and possibly building our own. Heating with wood is big here, we have spent a lot of time just collecting dead falls for our own heating.
QuotePeople have a whole different mindset now. If they had the option of buying quality furniture that would last a generation, they would turn it down.
Doc, you hit the nail right on the head! I actually had a woman come into my shop and she had me reupholster a piece of @$#% chair with leather. I explained that with the cost of leather and labor she could actually buy one of my handcrafted chairs for only a couple hundred more and she refused.
QuoteI miss it and hope you get to where you want to be in your new venture. Your a great person and deserve this farm and success and a great ending to a long career in stitching.
Thanks Chris: when I was young, around 13 a young couple rented the farm next door. Some how I wandered over there and became friends, they were great people and influenced me in ways I wouldn't know for years. I worked on that farm for 4 years, never expecting any pay, or receiving any. I got up early to help with milking, after school I cleaned stalls, I learned much. I even learned how to use a block and tackle to help a cow give birth. They bought their own farm and moved away, eventually they had 8 kids of their own and are still farming, although their operation has changed over the years. What once was a large dairy, is now surviving on locally produced produce and milk. Vermont passed a law that allows farmers to sell raw milk to the public. Once that happened I became one of their customers. I am convinced that locally produced produce and agriculture is making a come back and right now is just beginning, especially with the war going on between gmo and non gmo and the labeling. It's odd, people may be dumb when it comes to furniture, but they seam to want to know whats in their food, on second thought maybe in these hard times people are making choices and decided food is more important than furniture. Also all the "new" methods coming out for growing organic vegetables is exciting. Although it's not really new, it was just forgotten during the industrial age, things like wide row raised beds and the Back To Eden method, I just find exciting and inspiring.
I will keep in touch with everyone, I'll let you know just how this all works out. The good, the bad and the ugly! LOL
I grew up on a small farm. My grandfather lived next door and he and my dad were small-scale truck farmers. Grandfather also had a few hundred chickens for egg production. A couple of bad years when I was pre-school (and a 4th child on the way) led my dad to get a job in the city as a deliveryman. My grandfather continued to farm full-time into his 80s and my dad as a side line and to feed the family for most of his life. We also had two dairy cows for milk, along with the associated morning and evening milking, hay-making, and mucking the stalls. I always said I grew up on the business end of a hoe, both for our own food and for market. I earned money through my youth growing sweet corn, cabbage, and pumpkins. Nearly all my parents friends were dairy farmers, including one uncle. Another uncle worked shifts in a steel mill, loved to fish, but still managed to have large gardens, too. One summer, I worked for one of the dairy farms in the area making hay, cultivating and harvesting corn. I broke a generations-long chain of being a farmer and got a college education and technical job.
Learned the value of hard work and delayed gratification.
This spring, I bought a new home out in the country. My, have things changed! We plowed, disked, planted, cultivated, and harvested corn two rows at a time. A farm down the road must be a bit over 100 acres. A contract farmer was in one day with a 30' wide till and plant on one pass, and another sprayed herbicide in another pass. In less than 8 hours, they had all the acreage planted and eliminated the need for weeding. Six weeks later, the corn is 6' tall and soybeans look good. I predict they'll be harvested in a similar time window. My sister's brother-in-law farms over 4000 acres and now I understand how he does it. When I was growing up, a herd of 30-40 dairy cattle and 150 acres was considered a big farm.
At the new place, I have room for livestock, should I desire. The more I remembered the anchor of having to home everyday and have chores every morning and evening, I'm thinking not. Maybe I'll get back into honeybees that feed themselves and only need checked in on every couple of weeks.
Keith: I agree with you, I am also not interested in the work load of dairy farming! I like the idea of having a Jersey Cow just for our own and raising a couple grass fed beef though. In order to compete in dairy the operation has to be very large and automated, I don't have that kind of money to invest, nor would I if I did. Family farms in the 200 acre range once so numerous here in Vermont are struggling just to survive. I have a feeling that factory farming is going to loose out to small locally grown and harvested produce, they are calling it sustainable agriculture. call me crazy, but people seam more aware and interested in where their food comes from and what is in it than they did a generation ago. The methods that many organic farmers are using today have made it possible to grow enough produce for market on only a few acres. I have been experimenting with them for the past 5 years and grow most all the vegetables our family needs. I only have to weed for a few hours, and thats for the whole season! My parents had a organic market garden when I was a kid and the weeding and tilling was a daily chore for all of us, not any more! When I first started using these new methods my mother did'nt believe it was possible and I will admit I had my failures the first couple of years. I have the system down now and like I said hardly no weeding this year at all. What made me think I could actually do this full time for profit was a guy named Jean Martin Fortier this guy grosses like 150 grand a year on only 10 acres without even using a tractor! Although he does use a walk behind tractor, kind of like a big roto tiller that accepts attachments. he has a lot of interesting YouTube videos and a book. I bought his book now that it is available in English. He lives in Quebec Canada and English is not his first language. Anyone interested in guarding especially vegetables should watch his videos, also the Back To Eden guy named Paul Gautschi, also on YouTube. Paul is a little bit into the bible, but if you can over look that he has some really great things to say.
It is sad to see corporate farming take over. Like you guys said, a 80 acre farm back when I was a kid was a big farm and a man could make a decent living off it if he had the right livestock and crops. Now days you cannot farm unless you own several thousand acres. My Grandpa had two farms, one was hogs and the other was beef. My uncles were farmers and my cousins are still farming.
The crop yields today as compared to back when I was farming are staggering. No till planting was a big thing and just came on when I was still farming. Today with the GMO's, herbicides and fertilizers, crop yields have really went up.
I boarded horses and ran open heifers for a buddy of mine who was a dairy farmer on my farm. I ran his hay crews for him and Vetted his cows when they needed it. I probably should have been a veterinarian as I was always good at working on livestock. I did all my own Vet work unless an animal needed to be anesthetized for a procedure. We also had a dairy goat milking operation and sold milk to people who had ulcers or were lactose intolerant. Of course I also raised hogs, chickens, etc. for us as well as others that I sold to.
My Ex wife had a huge garden and did a lot of canning and freezing. You just cannot get people to understand how high the quality is of home raised beef, pork, chicken, vegies, etc. The taste is out of this world. We raised all hormone and antibiotic free beef, hogs and chickens. The goat milk was delicious.
I just really miss farming and being around livestock. Some people would think I was crazy but spending time in the barn mucking stalls, feeding and looking after livestock was a stress reliever for me. There is an old saying " The more I know about people, the more I love my dogs ". The same can be said for livestock. :)
It was a simple way of life and I miss it. All this talk makes me want to go back to farming again. :)
Chris
QuoteSome people would think I was crazy but spending time in the barn mucking stalls, feeding and looking after livestock was a stress reliever for me.
We had a small vegetable garden (10X16 ??) back in Kenora. If I'd had a rough day I'd come and home and weed or water it for that very reason. The deer and the bears ate all the produce, but it was good therapy LOL.
Quote from: Mojo on July 21, 2016, 03:30:39 am
It was a simple way of life and I miss it.
C'mon Chris. If you took over a small farm tomorrow, within a year you would be pouring over data trying to figure how to increase yield by another 8%. You would expand, buy equipment, and micro-manage the hell out of it. You wouldn't be satisfied until you owned a chain of farms up and down the eastern seaboard.
You would invent some farming gadget, and make the rounds at the trade shows hawking it. Then you would develop a marketing plan for mass distribution.
If you truly wanted the simple life, you would already have it. Be careful what you wish for.
Since the Smileys don't work.......please note that this is all "Tongue in cheek" (but there's a little bit of truth in every bit of humor).
I was poking around the internet yesterday, just looking at gardening and farming forums looking to see if any other people are considering the same type of venture as I am.
I found one place where a lady had posted a question very similar to what I am considering doing, using the same methods that I want to use. And boy did she get a ration of sh#%! First out the door was how she needed a business plan, well I understand the importance of a business plan, I studied it extensively in college and yes you have to have one if you are looking to get a loan from a bank. But in the real world you can kiss all your best projections goodby once the rubber hits the road. That said, does not mean anyone should fly by the seat of their pants, it's good to have a plan. You need to know your market, what looks like it might sell, how you are going to produce it, market it and fund it, etc. This plan can be on paper or in your head, that depends on the person, but unless you are going to a bank it does not have to be a formal business plan and keep ever in mind, all your research may very well be obsolete by the time your operation is up and running.
Next up. She was ever reminded on just how expensive it was going to be to get started, all the equipment needed, the tractors, the implements, and don't forget irrigation, water is so expensive and the cost of irrigation infrastructure is so prohibitive! They asked her questions like "where are you going to get your water?" "can you drill a well where you live?" Valid questions you might say, but the people asking these questions have absolutely no idea how the methods she plans on using work. How come no one ever wonders why the forest does not get watered, but it grows just fine?
Of course there was some support for her venture, but the thread quickly degenerated into hostile back and forth posts. Did I find the negative points discouraging? No way! in fact I found them inspiring! Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the negative and discouraging comments were all from shills for big ag who are threatened by the movement of locally grown produce and sustainable agriculture in general. Can you say Monsanto? I knew you could. Makes me wish I was 20 again.
Quote from: sofadoc on July 21, 2016, 05:30:21 am
Quote from: Mojo on July 21, 2016, 03:30:39 am
It was a simple way of life and I miss it.
C'mon Chris. If you took over a small farm tomorrow, within a year you would be pouring over data trying to figure how to increase yield by another 8%. You would expand, buy equipment, and micro-manage the hell out of it. You wouldn't be satisfied until you owned a chain of farms up and down the eastern seaboard.
You would invent some farming gadget, and make the rounds at the trade shows hawking it. Then you would develop a marketing plan for mass distribution.
If you truly wanted the simple life, you would already have it. Be careful what you wish for.
Since the Smileys don't work.......please note that this is all "Tongue in cheek" (but there's a little bit of truth in every bit of humor).
Tongue in cheek or not, you hit the nail on the head. I have no idea what makes me do the things I do. Hell, better yet why I do the things I do at this age instead of sitting on a beach in Costa Rica drinking Diet Cokes and smoking cigars is beyond me. Most guys our age are studying retirement plans and not market share charts or marketing programs.
I am pretty convinced my wife will find me dead either in the shop or at my desk going over the latest marketing plan.
To be honest, it is a sore spot with her. In her words " you do not have an OFF switch and you need to find one before God turns your lights off for you permanently ". lol
Chris
Mike, I can say "Monsanto".
A guy who owns a micro brewery in town was on the radio last week. He was talking about how AB and Miller are lobbying to have a law that requires nutritional info on all beer bottles. For the big boys and girls, this would be no problem. But for the small micro breweries, they may run a batch of beer, bottle it, then try something else next month. It would be cost prohibitive to pay for a lab to analyse every different batch of beer they make. There's no question that the big beer producers are looking for ways to put the little guys out of business. The little guys are small individually, but there are so many of them now that their collective market share is significant.
Science has told us a lot about the world we live in. Unfortunately, much of science today is politically driven and money motivated.
--------------------------------------------
I am a big advocate of writing a business plan for anyone wanting to start a business. There seems to be a difference between thinking about something and taking the time to write it down on paper (or type on a computer).
This may sound odd, but I think the biggest benefit to writing a well thought out business plan is all the questions you come up with that you would not have otherwise thought about until you were knee deep in muck and mire and it was too late to turn back. And most of the answers, as you said, won't come until you are knee deep in muck and mire... But seeing the questions will give you a better idea of what might be ahead.
Most small business ventures fail because folks, as you said Mike, try to fly by the seat of their pants. That's why I love SCORE, if it's in your area. At least you'll get someone who's been there to look at your plan.
Best of regards in your ventures!
Gene
Gene: You would get an A in business class, I cant argue with your answer its always good to have a plan on paper. My wife is the same way, she loves to see it all written down, in alphabetical order! LOL I guess the point I was trying to make is that having to have a business plan was being used to discourage the woman, some people become very intimidated by things they know nothing about. I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from making a formal business plan, or if they don't know how, to research it and learn how to do it. But I would never tell someone they cant be successful without one either, which is just what the posters were implying. I have actually written several business plans for my upholstery business when I needed to borrow money from a bank. But I'm not looking for money this time and would rather work for myself than the bank. Yes the points I made are what one would find in a business plan, I just tend to go about it a little different, but thats just me. Yes we have SCORE in our area and I have also used them in the past, it sounds like you had a better experience than I did, unfortunately the guy I talked with did not understand the upholstery business at all. I have some friends who are doing a similar business that I am contemplating and I will defiantly be bouncing ideas off them. Nutritional info on beer bottles? What a joke. Maybe they should list if they use GMO's, bet that would nip that in the bud. I agree they are trying to push the little guy out. Why don't they try to gain market share by offering a Superior product? I guess thats to hard. Vermont passed a law a few years ago now, that lets farmers sell raw milk and we have been buying it ever since. I don't like that we have to sign a card with our names and address that stays on record with the farmer, but it's a steep in the right direction. Good info here for anyone who is interested http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/
I do believe in business plans. I think in many areas or industries they are a necessity. In my case my business plans were always wrote inside my head because I always started a company extremely small and grew from there. I had a general idea as to what I wanted to do and then went from there.
I never pigeon holed myself and remained flexible as the market changed or an opportunity arose. The one thing I have always done is bounce ideas and thoughts off trusted advisors. One was my Godfather who was a brilliant business man. He had the midas touch when it came to business so he was one of my trusted advisors. When he passed away a couple years ago I started having my son advise me as I went, bouncing ideas off him. He too is an amazing business man with a mind that sees things others, including myself cannot. A self made millionaire by the time he was 25 this kid has a business mind that just blows me away.
I also use experts quite often to bounce ideas off of. The CEO of Miami is a friend of mine and one who I will throw ideas at. I had an idea and was ready to pull the trigger on it when he begged me to stop and think. He was totally against the plan I had. I listened and between him and my son I canned the idea. It was a damn good thing as it could have went painfully bad for the company. The head of Sattler North America is also a very close friend and one of my trusted advisors when it comes to business and marketing plans I may have. In the canvas and awning business this guy is amazing. He has seen it all so his advice is extremely important to me.
In other words, I generate ideas and then bounce them off all of these guys and I always make sure I remind myself to listen carefully, even when it is something I do not want to hear. They help me tweek my plans or ideas and this is why I have been successful in every new venture within our company. To be successful one has to keep their ego in check and be ready to ask for advice from experts and then be ready to act on what they told you.
I did not build this company by myself and through my own brain power. If there is anything I can personally attribute to our success is my ability to cultivate friendships and by knowing who you can trust and offer great advice and who cannot.
A know it all attitude and a big ego has sank many ships ( and dreams ) for people. So seeking advice from experts is a good thing. My eyes and ears are always open looking for the next opportunity.
Chris
QuoteDarren: I think of you often and remember the difficult times you endured a few years ago, while I go through this. I think your area my be similar to mine.
It certainly sounds like deja vu all over again LOL. I am happy to hear that you have chosen to stay where you want to be rather than moving your existing operation to greener pastures. That was one lesson I have had re-enforced. I moved to Kenora (Norhtwest Ontario) as an orthopaedic shoe maker. I loved the area and made some very good friends. When lack of work forced me out of that job I chose to stay in Kenora rather than move to one of the 6 places in Canada that I could work in trade as I didn't like any of them as much as I liked Kenora. I worked on the lake for one season and then stumbled into upholstery. Life was good for several years until the mill closed and the economy dried up. I took a job working for Bath Fitter, but it too petered out after a year and a half. My mother's health was bad and dad's was no hell when this job came open here in Brandon Manitoba, so I took it to be closer to them and to eat regularly. Mom died the week before I moved here and Dad has since passed as well but the economy back in Kenora still isn't appealing so here I sit working for an abusive SOB that should be kicked in the throat with a speed skate wishing I had stayed in Kenora and taken up poaching as required to get by.
QuoteMy knee jerk reaction is selective logging and selling specialty wood until you have cleared enough land to start gardening.
I guess this would qualify as part of your "business plan" LOL. My thought was " rather than bulldoze and burn---how can you make $$$$ clearing land?" . It sounds like firewood is a viable "crop" in your area. Bark and limps can be chipped and sold as landscape mulch, to get rid of them. Poplar and other hardwoods are sold to OSB plants (at least here). Exotic woods like ash,walnut, etc... are generally sold in smaller cut and dried pieces. I thought a bandsaw mill like a woodmiser (sp) might be the answer there. You'll no doubt keep the really good stuff for your own furniture making division.
I really like the idea of sugaring off the maples. That will give you some windbreaks around your plots and prevent erosion as well as providing a cash crop in the spring before the veggies are ready. If I remember my high school geography Vermont should have the same sugar maples we have in southern Quebec. The maples we have here on the prairies don't produce enough sap to make it worth while to make syrup, but yours should produce enough. The last time I looked at syrup at a farmer's market it was like $15/pint. Granted you need to reduce 40 pints of sap to get it, but that doesn't have to be an expensive operation.
Follow your dreams, my friend. It sounds like getting there is going to be an exciting experience.
Chris: Very well said, you are fortunate to have such business savory people to bounce ideas off and get sound advice. Sound like that son of yours has a bright future ahead of him!
Darren: I don't think I could be happy anywhere else, probably my down fall. My sister left the state for greener pastures and is doing very well for herself, but I would spiritually die where she lives. The marble industry was the big employer here back in the 20's, 30's and into the 40's but is just about dead now. The town I live in never really recovered, the holes and cranes are all over the place. When I was a kid we used to climb up into a huge gantry crane and ride it back and forth, should have got my but kicked good for that one.
I have most of the equipment needed to clearing the land. I bought a chipper to chip up all the brush and limbs. The chips will be applied over the garden space. The Back To Eden gardening method uses wood chips as a heavy mulch. Which in turns creates compost, compost tea and retains and regulates soil moisture along with protecting from soil erosion. I don't have a sawmill yet, new ones are to expensive for me at the moment, my son is chomping at the bit to start building our own, I do have some old cars sitting around that are starting to look like a sawmill LOL. At the moment all my efforts are going into rebuilding a dump truck. It was one of those purchases where half way into it you realize it might have been a better idea to keep looking. But I'm stuck with it now, it will be a good truck when I'm done, but it's holding me up right now.
QuoteGranted you need to reduce 40 pints of sap to get it, but that doesn't have to be an expensive operation.
Unfortunately in order to be Vermont Certified you have to have some very expensive infrastructure in place. Although expensive is a relative term, it would be expensive for me and I will have to ease into it slowly over time. Most everyone today uses plastic hose and vacuum pumps. when I do it I want to do it the old fashion way with buckets a wood fired evaporator and turn the operation into a destination for tourist and locals who want to see what Sugaring in Vermont used to be like. I might even use horses to pull the collection tank, but that one is to be determined at a later date, at least an antique tractor.
QuoteI want to do it the old fashion way with buckets a wood fired evaporator and turn the operation into a destination for tourist and locals who want to see what Sugaring in Vermont used to be like.
I had assumed that that was the way you'd see it. I hadn't considered government intervention, mind you. Do you require Vermont certification to sell at craft shows, or from your property? I remember a similar problem in southern Ontario a few years ago where the powers that be tried to make everyone who sold an egg etc.. to a neighbour be licensed etc...As I remember the outcome (you may want to research this) small producers are allowed to sell milk, eggs, veggies etc... from their own farm to the public. If they want to supply the milk marketing board etc... or sell to a store, they need the proper permits etc...
Get the horse!!!! Not because it will validate your " pioneer farm" destination, but because it can be more versatile than a tractor. I remember my Dad talking about a horse that his uncle Bill used to haul wood on the farm when he was a kid and how it worked so smart. I saw some tree-hugger mini-documentary on tv and watched it because of old "Charlie" and Dad's story. They were logging small plots in Southern Ontario very selectively. Their goal was to weed out old trees that were on the way out to allow for new growth. The horse could be maneuvered where ever it needed to be and then pull on a rope to help them fall the tree exactly where they wanted it to land by voice command (remote control LOL). Once limbed the horse only needed a 2 foot skid way and could snake around corners that a tractor would have had to stop and clear a route.
Then again----a quad has never bit me or stepped on my foot and only needs gas when it is running.
I would really like to use horses, but I dont know much about them. My son has a friend who is into horses and I am sure would be more than happy to teach me, but I think her knowledge is mostly based around riding, I'm not sure what she knows about draft horses. It would be quite a learning curve for sure. I think if I wanted to sell maple syrup and just label it Uncle Mikes and sell it in mason jars I could do just about anything I wanted and could do it on the cheap. It's when you put it in those fancy bottles labeled "Vermont Maple Syrup" that you run into all kinds of regulation. The state passed this law after they found out large company's were buying sap from all over New England and Canada, processing it in a huge plant in a city some where and bottling it up in those fancy bottles that say "Vermont Maple Syrup". Maple producers felt it was important for the state to do something to protect the Vermont brand and I don't blame them. There is a lot of help available from the state for people like me, also the Vermont Maple Sugar Makers Association can be very helpful.
The past 3 winters a friend made maple syrup from trees here in SW Ohio. He collected the sap in buckets and boiled it down with propane stoves. He figured he spent $12.50 per pint. And this does not include his labor. He was not doing it for commercial purposes.
The propane is what is so expensive. Burning free firewood is the best way to go.
Those commercial producers with all the tubes coming off the trees are kool. I saw a video where they have electronic monitors that will tell them exactly where a leak in the system is. With miles of tubing that could save a lot of time.
I watched the first 3 videos of Fortier's. The benefit he has with not having a horse is that he can end his work day at 5 and travel during the winter.
gene
Mike:
Believe it or not, draft horses are gentle giants. I am more comfortable around them then standard horses.
I have been knocked out cold, kicked, bit, bucked off, thrown, leaned on and stepped on. But what the hell I married my wife anyways. I always loved a challenge and being married to an Aussie is one of those.
Opp's, back to horses.
Working with horses is an amazing experience but takes a lot of experience. Snaking logs with draft horses can get you hurt or killed if your not careful. When they pull, they PULL and will take a log right over you.
My Uncle has a team and used them around his farm for fun. He used to be in pulling contests. The draft horses are amazing animals. I would have loved to have owned a team.
Chris
I often thought that if I hit the lottery and became rich, I'd get some draft horses until the money was gone.
My grandfather and dad farmed with horses before I was born. So most of the farm equipment was converted over from horse pulled. He said the horses always knew the last round of the day because they'd speed up.
Working with horses is making a come back. This spring I saw one farmer plowing his field with a two horse team, that was really neat and he wasn't Amish. Horses are expensive, to buy and keep, but on the other hand when did a tractor give you a new model? I have absolutely no clue how to train a horse and would have to buy one already trained. As much as I like the idea and the romance of using horses, it sure is nice to park the tractor and not have to worry about feeding it, or it getting sick, but if gas ever becomes nonexistent it sure would be nice to have a horse around. Pros and Cons to everything I guess. When I was a kid there were not many horses in Vermont, but today there are horse boarding farms all over the place, the popularity of horses has just exploded here in the last 20 to 30 years. A lot of people who are into horses are fanatical about it, I know three people who keep horses and live a life of poverty to keep them.
They are very expensive and even more so today with the price of hay and grain. We charged $ 150 a month to board horses on our farm. But then we had pasture and an outdoor riding arena. No idea how much it is these days but I am sure it is considerably more.
Then you have worming, Vet checks, vaccines and the biggie shoeing. Farriers are not cheap and hoof's need to be trimmed often. If they throw a shoe then back the farrier comes and more money.
It seems like it never ends. Kinda like raising teenage kids.
Chris