http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-high-price-of-being-self-employed-2015-06-29?link=sfmw_fb
I'd add to this, monthly, quarterly, and annual accounting and tax filing.
OR..... you could work for someone else and get paid half your value.
When I was in corporate world, we figured the fully loaded cost of an employee was twice their salary. Covers taxes, benefits, insurance, work space, other resources (computer, phone, etc.), management/corporate overhead, training, travel expenses, vacation/holiday/sick leave, etc. So by that measure, yeah, it's about right.
We did have to buy our own coffee, though.
I used to work at an aerospace plant. My salary was $10 hr. The company billed the government $100 hr. for my services. But then, they were also charging them 10 bucks for a paper clip too.
When Canada adopted the CF18 aircraft , part of the package was the special tools required to service them. One such item was a "special" screwdriver for $700.00. When they showed up the handles read "Mastercraft", which is Canadian Tire's house brand of cheap tools. I don't know if that same screwdriver ,today, would cost $7.00.
so why do I work ?
this statement " Retirees, for their part, don't pay the payroll tax, because they don't have earned income." really get me. they talk about how social security is in trouble yet a friend of mine and uneducated unskilled trucker . will reture soon and collect from his union over 4 grand a month when hes 62, he sill say he has earned this money from his job. then he will also be able to collect SS 1000? a month. on top of the 4 plus grand. a person collection ss payment id reduced if they earn a small amout of money that the 4k a month will easily be more , my point is this is money that he earnt at his job and he didn't received the money while he was workin and put it in the bank he gets paid after he is done working. he has said that he will get more money once he retires then he does now driving., then he plans to het a local job (that someelse could use) until hes 65 and qualifies for full SS. I think anyone getting a pension from a job should be treated as anyone on SS who works and makes too much money and is taxed.
just my pet peve jealouse yes why did I work for someone else
You guys are so negative. There is nothing better than self employment!
I'll list the many advantages of self employment sometime later. I had a long day today and I'm really tired. I've got to get up early tomorrow and do it all over again. :)
gene
Rock on Gene
As a devout pensioner somethings wrong because I pay taxes on mine both fed and state.
There's something good about not laying in tar working on diesel road building trucks though, or racing out to fix a truck in the ice roads and getting some heat n coffee to an op. So so many not fun task not to mention crews of well paid workers, engineers, waiting on some issue.
Its cool to hang out with you all here and will have to until age 67 I think it is for full ss.?
I should of drove a truck though with that other fellas income, hmmh I thought I was sharp as tac ??
I happen to know that Gene only works half days. He usually gets started about 8 am, takes 30 minutes each for lunch and dinner and wraps up at 9 pm, so that's 12 hours, half a day. He sometimes slacks off and only works 5 or 6 hours on Sundays, too. (Sound familiar, anyone?)
Quote from: gene on July 02, 2015, 07:56:40 pm
You guys are so negative. There is nothing better than self employment!
I'll list the many advantages of self employment sometime later. I had a long day today and I'm really tired. I've got to get up early tomorrow and do it all over again. :)
gene
You've got that right, Keth.
When my customers ask why my prices are so low, I tell them that I'm so busy working I don't have the time to raise my prices. :)
gene
All good points Hammer. Most working slobs have no idea the burden placed on business owners. All they know is we have money coming out of our shorts so tax the hell out of us.
This article only touches the tip of the iceberg. Add in property tax. Taxes on gas for our vehicles. Heavy taxes on utilities. Have you ever noticed the communication tax on your cell phone? And if you live long enough to sell the property your business sits on you'll be taxed at about 28% capital gains.
Add in the burden of time and expense it takes to collect sales tax for the state. It really adds up.
And don't get me started on the minimum wage burden and matching SS tax placed on employers.
Quote from: Mike on July 02, 2015, 04:07:55 pm
he has said that he will get more money once he retires then he does now driving.,
My Dad worked for the state and my mom was a school teacher. They both worked hard and socked away the max into their state provided retirement program. They earned more money in retirement then while working.
My sister is a double dipper. She works for the state in Tallahassee. After 20 years she retired and the very next day went back to work for the state. She gets her retirement and a full time salary.
I always wanted to be self employed and owned numerous part time businesses. But my main job which I retired from was working for a municipal utility company. I am extremely glad I did as I have blue chip prescription, medical and dental benefits for the rest of my life. If I croak off my wife carries those benefits onward for the rest of her life.
Consider my prescription costs run well over $ 4 K a month when I am on chemo. My medical bills are astronomical as well. Thankfully everything is paid for including my Doctor visits. I would hate to think how bad we would be right now financially if I would have been self employed all my adult life.
How do self employed business owners do it in regards to medical, dental and prescription insurance ? Do all of you have insurance ? What are the costs as I do not have a clue ?
Chris
Then, to add; at the end of the day (or at night), there is the paper work that has to be processed. I can spend considerable time keeping this function going.
Maybe we all go work for the government, retire then do this at a reduced rate in our garage ------- for cash!
Why...........believe this, I have customers who swear I am doing it all wrong, I should only work for cash! Some of them have a government retirement from something and work for cash, taking the easy jobs only - leaving the harder jobs to someone who has to work.
Now, this talk about minimum wage, add the lastest noise about overtime pay.
Is this the next country to go by way of the Greece path? Our debt has been growing, where is it now, 18 Trillion?
Sorry,
Oh, Mojo the medical insurance, that is where the rest of my money goes and it doesn't cover dental. I guess I don't have time to get sick, who would pay the bills? Thankful, for good health.
Doyle
How do self employed business owners do it in regards to medical, dental and prescription insurance ? Do all of you have insurance ? What are the costs as I do not have a clue ?
My Wife and I are covered under the exchange - costs me $ 400.00 per month after the subsidies they allow me. Co-pay $ 10,000 out of pocket before they pay anything except for a yearly physical. No dental no eye coverage. The plan supposedly limits the fees doctors can charge but I'm still out of pocket
$ 10,000 up front.
The plan limits the doctors I can see and I need a referral for everything. This has turned out much much worse then the plan I previously had. From what I read health care companies have no limits when raising their prices under the ACA plans- I hope it gets better now that were 60 and need care more then our younger days. I'm going to see if a higher premium will lower the out of pocket at the next anniversary date of the policy.
SA
I don't know how small shop owners can afford all the expenses that go along with having employees. I know that some of you are succeeding, but I wouldn't want to try.
My wife takes care of all our insurance benefits with her job. She started out as a bank teller, and has worked her way up the food chain. She now makes a pretty nice salary with some really nice quarterly bonuses.
I've always operated on the theory "Don't own a business unless you are prepared to FULLY run it yourself". Because if you depend on employees to run it, it is inevitable that the day will eventually come when they let you down.
I'm impressed to hear how Paul and Chris have found dependable employees. It almost restores my faith in humanity (almost).
But the way my business is currently set up, I don't see how I could afford to pay any employees a salary that would make us both happy. And benefits? Forget it.
I carry health insurance through the marketplace. I like Obama for that. Making it affordable, couple hundred a month for me. It was cheaper when my wife was on it too. My wife is done and on Medicare so she gets some relief. I have another year before I go on it.
As for employees and the expenses that go with it. It is much better in florida than it was in NY as far as I remember. I don't provide insurance benefits except Aflac. They do me well. It works. My only concern is turnover and training new people. That is a work slowdown to say the least.
My shop is at our home. We take full advantage of all available "deductions". One half of this team works "for the man" (I did it for many years) and that's how we handle "health/death care".
Book keeping and assiduous attention to detail is crucial! and it's what allows us to make it work.
But for too many? the present tax system is grossly unfair and stacked in absolute opposition. And yet, too many "tradesmen" still vote against their own best interests. Umm... duh...? take the long view guys.
Quote from: MinUph on July 05, 2015, 09:18:08 am
I carry health insurance through the marketplace. I like Obama for that. Making it affordable, couple hundred a month for me.
As I said before, my insurance is through my wife's employer. So I have no experience with the marketplace.
But when Obamacare first went into effect, everybody was pissing and moaning about it. They were ready to hang Obama from the highest tree. Now, it seems as though everyone is warming up to it. True?
I jumped on board at the very beginning. It took a long time before the website actually worked but it finally did. I can't say I understand the opposition to it as we now have health insurance that we couldn't afford for many, many years. Seems as though the 2 parties just dislike anything the other one does. And the president has been shot down for everything he wants to do. At least he did it. Whether it be good or bad time will tell.
At the start of it all no-one I worked with signed up but now they all have. At least the ones that don't get it from a spouse.
it seems as though everyone is warming up to it. True?
You don't really have a choice. My old policy was canceled. Yes Obama had no cooperation for single payer but what he has delivered is not better then what I had - the waivers were another wrench in the works. . This new health care is not even close to what I had - I'd love my old policy back. Nothing anyone can change although I hope over time they keep tweaking it until it is a policy we'll all like.,
SA
Not on Obamacare. My two cents is that is does not really do anything to reduce the costs of health care -- just subsidizes it for the individual. No malpractice tort reform, no reduction in Rx costs (highest in the world), no attempts to reduce costs of hospitals or physicians.
I spent one night in the hospital this spring -- showed up at ER about 8 pm, had a CRT scan to diagnose what I could have told them (kidney stones). Surgeon on call was stacked up and got to me about 10:45 to do a temporary bypass, saw the ER doc twice for about 30 seconds each time. Admitted after procedure, got out about 11 am the next morning. Cost, not including the urologist's charges, $22,000 !!! Thankfully, there were negotiated discounts with my insurance, but I'm still out $5,000 deductible I know to refused my normal meds in the morning because I can buy a year's worth of multi-vitamins for what the hospital charges me for one..
Basic question about Obama care is simply, should the cost of an insurance policy be lowered for some at the expense of those who pay more taxes. The cost of medical care is more expensive under the program.
Should other tax payers shoulder the cost to lower the cost for another receipient?
Tax the rich is the message I get. Someone has to pay the bills.
Som - raises the overall cost- is the theory I read.
Doyle
Single payer national health insurance. The rest of the "evolved", first world countries do it; time to study up and copy them, I say! Time for the good ol' USA to smarten up and get on board. Enough grousing about how "much it costs". And start looking at how much health insurance companies and big pharma. mean on the stock market...
Spare me the right wing clap trap about "marketplace economies". Baloney! it hasn't worked for over 30 yrs.. time to move on, kids. The only thing "wrong" with Obamacare is that it didn't go nearly far enough! Ted Kennedy had it figured out in the early '70s. We need to spend less on interminable "armed conflicts" (let's not call them wars because if we did we could/should fund them with taxes) and direct the monies to things that will directly benefit those of us who actually pay full freight in taxes. My regards to Mitt Romney and his wife who's never worked a day in her life!
'nough said.
Bobbin
I'm not sure the rest of the world does health care so great. Wars drain the budget but it's more of a mis-management of money then the cause.
I voted for Romney because I believed he had far more experience - nothing to do with right or left. This major health care legislation was passed without one vote from the other side. Romney may have gotten support from both sides and created a better bill.
SA
Not one congress person who voted for O care read the legislation. The sole purpose of O care was for the fed gov to grab control of 7% of our economy. How could it have been about health care? No one new what it said!
Every single promise made by O about O care was a lie. How can you include pre existing conditions and have lower costs? Remember the many times O said you can keep your existing ins? Remember the talks about O care bringing all health care costs down.
Here's the bottom line: If you are getting some milk from the Government teet, you love it and you ignore everything else. I say "Suck away!"
Greece, Puerto Rico, next China. Our grand-kids who haven't even been born yet will be paying off our debts. Suck away while there's still some milk left. We are entitled!
gene
Quote from: bobbin on July 05, 2015, 04:19:24 pm
My regards to Mitt Romney and his wife who's never worked a day in her life!
She probably couldn't have found any job openings anyway (what with all the jobs already taken by all the Kennedy women).
LOL....JK.......winking smiley face.
Blue Cross Blue Shield raising rates for next year. Just over 50% if you live in Minnesota.
Stay at home moms used to be a source of pride and great benefit to the children. Today a stay at home mom is an example of evil wealth - but only if she is a Republican.
To show how much our country has changed in just this last generation, in 1961 JFK said "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you -- ask what you can do for your country."
Today a Democrat would not understand why someone would even want to say that.
Can you imagine if a Republican presdential candidate said that today? They would be called a bigot for singling out "Americans" and excluding all other nationalities. Then they would be branded as racist for wanting to take away the entitlements of minorities, accused of trying to kill old people by wanting to take away their SS, speaking code for anti immigration legislature.
Whether it's an 8th generation welfare recipient living in the inner city wanting an upgrade on their Obama phone, a state or local government wanting federal dollars for a road repair project, health care, day care, education..., all of our needs from cradle to grave, our God, oops, sorry, typo, our Gov will take care of us. Amen.
gene
Some would have us believe the health care debate is over. Time to move on. But the open ended way O-care was delivered means the law is forever changing.
As evident by a crazy law passed by the IRS yesterday stating, if an employer wants to help supplement an employee's O-care payment they could be fined up to $30,000.
But this works both ways. With a conservative president we could strip the bill of all the pork and and turn it into something more user friendly. Something more manageable. Something more affordable. Something easier to understand. Hell, lets just scrap the whole thing and start over.
I'll bet the folks in Oregon don't think O-care is affordable. They will get a 36% increase in their rates next year.
O-care was created at the wrong time in the wrong place. We should have gotten the economy under control before creating such an expensive bill. But Ed, the economy is BOOMING. My economy hasn't seen an up-tick in over 10 years. Some will simply say raise taxes on the rich. And keep raising them. Its only fair. Bring those greedy bastards to their knees. Greece tried that. Look whats happening there. With Spain and Italy soon to follow And a little closer to home is Jamaica. (Did you know the government in Greece is raiding safe deposit boxes and leaving an IOU)
And now our good friend Bernie wants to give everyone free collage education and raise minimum wage. Once again wrong place wrong time. We need to get unemployment under control before we can even think about free education. We need to look at the real numbers, not the government made up numbers. Where does Bernie think this huge flood of collage graduates are going to find jobs. Before we can talk about raising min wage we need to CLOSE THE BORDER. Our current president welcomes "undocumented aliens" with open arms. Wants to fast track to citizenship. After all they are hard working people just looking for work nobody else wants to do. Problem is they ARE taking jobs from US citizens including skilled labor. Carpenters, Masons and yes Upholsterers. And doing these jobs for less than minimum wage forcing current wages to stagnate. And raising min wage will only force employers to hire more Illegal aliens making the problem even worse.
We need to fix the first problem before we create another one. Politicians can't seem to figure that one out. Or maybe they have figured it out, big ole power grab. Bankrupt America and take over the world. Bwa ha ha ha. It could happen. Anybody remember a funny little man named Hitler. Didn't Germany start off as a social-est country?
Hammer - Cody - Gene -
Those comments make total sense to me; .... although given I'm a conservative - I don't know why any other party affiliation would consider otherwise.
Things are not better today than they were years ago and it's getting worse. I've brought this up before and Virgs scalded me for not considering Women's issues - I never meant I want everything to be as it was although my faith which is a personal choice is not intended to judge anyone else or limit anyone elses choices. I just would like to see it get a little easier to exist for all of us - maybe some old style values ?
We can changes things with a simple vote and enough supporters -
SA
I considered Obama care last year. I have pretty crappy and expensive health insurance through my wife's work. My big fear was that at the end of a couple of years, it would be "The original costs of insurance were way under estimated, so we're going to have to up the premiums by XX%" Problem is, if I leave my current insurance, I can't get back in and I'd be stuck.
Will be interesting to see what Bernie does to Hilary's campaign. Will it make her lean farther to the left?
Also interested to see which of the herd of Republicans shake out early. By the time I get to vote in the usual primary, it's all but over.
Donald Trump seems like just a publicity stunt to me. An authoritarian boss would never make it as a successful president.
I was just getting ready to ask about you folks' opinion on Donald Trump and the "drama" he's already created. The radio station I listen to most [if I get to be left alone in my own little cave] at work has been having quite a bit of discussion about his running and his exploits between the staffers on air. Very few of them think he would ever win---but many think with pockets that deep and his "celebrity " status he might be a contender. The almost unanimous statement though has been---" With that arrogance and mouth---what would international relations become????".
Exactly Darren - imagine a slip of the tongue when dealing with super powers. I will tell you this ....... the conservative stations here are all getting on board and backing this guy. On the plus side - he can't be bought - he can turn raffia to gold - and he isn't afraid to state the flaws in the system that need changing. After years of politicians maybe it's time for a successful businessman to run the show.
SA
That was the other thing that made him a contender. People are tired of politics---they want a more "business like" government. Never mind what party came up with the idea; if it's going to work, do it----if it isn't working change it.
OK, we've got the politics, now are we going to debate religion? ;-)
The only difference between liberal Democrats and main stream Republicans is that Republicans are building a s-o-c-i-a-l-i-s-t government at a slower pace. RINO's = Republican In Name Only.
Republicans hold the house and Senate and most of the Republican leaderships' efforts so far have been to punish the more conservative Republicans for not going along with Obama's policies.
Trump got in trouble for saying the truth about Mexican illegal immigrants. 100% of the criticism is about the fact that he said it. No one is claiming that the content of what he said is wrong.
I think folks are starting to realize that political correctness is a system of lies used to deceive the peoples and to force through liberal policies that are good for only an elite few.
Just my opinion. Opinions are like belly buttons. We all have one. Except the neighbors 3 doors down. I'm certain they are aliens living on our planet to study us to see if we could be a viable food source for their home planets future use.
gene
Sorry Keith. I posted some more dribble about politics at the same time you posted the invite to start the inane babbling about religion.
I'll sum up all political and religious discussions about politics and religion: You're wrong. No, you're wrong. No, you're wrong. No, you're wrong. No, you're wrong...
I had lunch with a friend last week and he actually had tears of anger running down his face as he told me how George W and the oil companies are the only reason people do not believe in man made global warming. Does this fit under 'politics' or 'religion'? I make the argument for religion.
gene
Quote from: Darren Henry on July 09, 2015, 04:26:05 am
Never mind what party came up with the idea; if it's going to work, do it----if it isn't working change it.
The problem is........the opposing party is
NEVER satisfied that
ANY current system is "working".
Whichever party is in power always says "We've taken giant strides in the right direction, but there's still more work to do (so please re-elect us)".
The opposition always says "Everything is broken. Everything needs total change".
Then some wiseacre will chime in with "We need to put our differences aside and work together". He usually gets a big round of applause for making such a profound statement (as if it's never been said before).
But anytime a politician says "Can't we all work together?", what he really means is "Can't we all do it MY way?"
As all this rolls out, how does anyone see future joy in being self employed in the upholstery business? Times are changing, it can be said again, there aren't many new people engaging in our type of business. Cell phones, smart phones, web sites, and internet shopping is the concentration of the folk, how can that lead to small shop ownership like a few here?
We all can't work for the governments, or just draw a check, bills have to be paid if that is important anymore? Governments just keep asking for more taxes and get bigger, leaving less money in people control.
Doyle
It is difficult for the politicians as they cannot afford to lose some states in voting being there is so many in particular populations even though they are in sanctuary status. hmm?
The same old dilemma citizens allowed to collect a check without doing the labor, use to be tough to get as you had to put something in, now theres so many programs some how its possible to just put some old flip flops in line and stay sitting down while thumbing the smart phone until some gubmnt personell doing their job come and gets the one siting in chair, oh wait wait they have to get there flip flops still holding there place in line.
That's where my taxes go, went, and continue to support ?, very little the needed one I wish to help.
When is a politician going to step up and say that in national debate "continuously"
There will always be task and repair jobs for people in the trades as that's "work" so they will continue to view it as acceptable when they enjoy doing it though sometimes to cheap, that Im sorry for because they are usually the artist among us and deserve more.
They just keep getting up, back on the horse
I'm sorry, you guys. I don't really have a problem with a movement toward a more "sot" government. I think the USA could learn a lot from Germany, Switzerland, and the rest of the European models with respect to health care. They have better overall health and maybe the "cost" is higher but their citizens don't lose everything when they're faced with a catastrophic health crisis. What are the "hidden" costs when families in the USA go bankrupt as a result of medical care. Eliminate the profit motive in health care. Big pharma and the rest of the medical "pig" need to go on a diet.
"Mismanagement" is the problem with respect to "armed conflicts"? are you on drugs? I was opposed to the first move on Afghanistan, but I was vocal and absolutely opposed to the "mission creep" into Iraq... completely unfunded and that was going to take 14 mos. according to Mr. Rumsfeld... LOL (did you really believe that? were you alive during Viet Nam? did you learn nothing from that debacle?). How many deferments did the who Dubya crew receive? (prolly 3 less than Dick Cheney?). Spare me. Nearly 13 yrs. on, no end in sight. And where has the real cost of all that foolishness been placed in the "accounting"? onto the National Debt... because, heaven forbid... we might have to... (drum roll) raise taxes. I say, raise 'em! every stooge in this country of ours needs to feel the pain of war. How about we put a 100% tax on Nascar tickets, or Skoal chewing tobacco, Confederate flag sales? jeez how about GASOLINE? Or... wow! how about a tax on every single stock trade made on Wall Street? Oh, that's right... "no new taxes"! And the same people who refuse to accept responsibility and "pony up" are the very same people who grouse endlessly about how overtaxed they are. Give me a break. Hey, whatever happened to looking at taxes as your patriotic responsibility? the country that allowed you to become wealthy now needs your help... pony up and quit complaining. The tab's due, time to grow up and pay up.
We're not in Europe we can't do things as they do. You can't take the profit out of health care - for one thing who would go through the expense of a medical education for minimal returns ? We don't know everything the military strategists know - but when those buildings fell down in lower Manhattan and the other sites that were hit everyone wanted to do something. Actions are in response to our freedom being at risk. Both sides of the isle escaped serving. Raise taxes - aren't we paying enough ? How about a Senator earning over $ 200,000 / year to fund raise - that doesn't bother you ?
If only accountants ran the country instead of politicians we'd be in better shape.
SA
We're definitely not in Europe, but why are you so eager to buy in to the "capitalist" clap trap when you're the one getting stuck with the bill and the big boys (who write legislation) aren't? I think European countries are leagues ahead of us in many spheres, frankly. Health care is right up there at the top, Steve. This household was without ANY healthcare for 5 (count 'em!) years. And during those years I took care of my frail, elderly mother in our home... while working full time (think Ann Romney could "relate"? DOUBT IT). And why are you so opposed to "socializing" medicine? what's so wrong with making the heretofore vaunted medical profession more "social". Why shouldn't we make a medical education publically funded and less specialized and move toward a system that encourages a more basic focus on medical training... one that builds health rather than relies on high cost, specialized, "call in the cavalry" treatments (usually at the end of life)? Why can't we do things the way "they do" when they're clearly doing it more effectively and efficiently than we are?
9/11. I've never more stunned and appalled than I was that day. And I knew, as I watched the towers crumble that my country would blunder into the ant trap set up by Osama Bin Laden and his cronies. And everyone would react viscerally and we'd have to "kick ass". Get real, the FBI and the CIA have been in a budgetary range war for decades... but each were equally complicit because neither was willing to share important information that could have stopped those clowns from murdering nearly 3000 people. No one talks about that dirty side of the whole horrible affair, nor do they reference the very clear warnings that were overlooked repeatedly by the White House.
Nothing that happened on that awful day threatened "our freedom" in any credible way, Steve. Did it frighten us? certainly it did. But was Al Qaida capable of really threatening the USA? no, not in my opinion or the opinion of many really smart, involved people. The only thing those clowns had in their favor was that they managed to stymie the FBI and the CIA... they embarrassed the USA and our fat, dumb, and happy sense of "security". And 3000 people paid with their lives. And, true to form we sent out the jets and bombs, shock and awe/etc., and look where it's gotten us.
"another day older and deeper it debt". I don't think the way you do. I don't think reacting viscerally is smart if you take the long view. And nearly 13 yrs. on, with the entire cost of the "war" considered I think people who took the long view were right. I think the citizenry of our wonderful country needs to start, "thinkin' with the big head". Spend my tax dollars here, in my country, and let's start making lives better here. If we're going to rebuild infrastructure let's do it here... not in Iraq... where our bungled attempt at "nation building" unleashed a civil war that virtually destroyed what had been the most secular of the Middle East countries and stuck people like you and me with the bill.
I don't know - it just seems like this Country should prosper being capitalist more then any other economic form. I want to be here in America - I wouldn't live in Europe - would you ? Free schooling sounds wonderful but not realistic. At that time no leader would have layed down with our security at stake and said " I hope they don't do anything else" - Don't forget USA was hit multiple times all over the world before the second 911.
Boston a few years ago seems like nothing to worry about ? Tell that to the folks with no legs ! Going to the middle east slowed the growth and planning of all these groups that wanted to erase Americans. No one wants war - me as much as you. Were not going into a country with the purpose of hurting people - were going there to stop killers. 911 will be thought of as nothing if their means to hurt us increases.
Debt is mismanagement. I have ACA insurance and because of it and a $ 10,000.00 deductible for the two years I've had it I virtually have no insurance. 18 trillion and counting - not mismanagement ? And you want to give them more tax dollars ? Bring in the accountants -
SA
As I said before, I haven't had a reason to test the ACA marketplace because I am insured through my wife's employer.
My wife talks to many clients every day at the bank where she works. The responses concerning O-care are all over the road. Some report wonderful coverage for around $200 a month. Others complain of really crappy coverage with ridiculous deductibles for over $600 a month. I don't understand how the numbers can vary so greatly. As Steve says, with a $10K deductible, only a catastrophic illness will produce a return on his health investment.
Can anyone explain the wide variance?
QuoteCan anyone explain the wide variance?
Yes. You have the government in the process of taking over health care. There are government mandated prices to be lower than the private sector for the purpose of making O care look good and to run the private sector out of business. The private sector cannot compete with these lower mandated O care prices. Once the private sector goes out of business or is absorbed into the government controlled health care system, that is when the variance will come to an end.
AND, what do you think boys and girls? Will health care costs be higher or lower? And will health care be better or worse? What does history tell us about anything that any government takes control of?
Hey, at least evil foreign rich people who have much better health care than we do, especially those in Europe, will stop coming to the USA for their health care.
gene
We should still look abroad to Europe for some for our own interest. Here is the main reason and the simple fact it is an older region of the world, weather you want to embrace their experience or be left behind.
I spent 18 months there as a soldier and they appreciated my being there, I did try to be a bit sociable. It was really odd in the travels on trains "how efficient" and again yes as a highway builder, mechanic of all equipment types, that train travel is superior ( . )
The education I cannot speak much on other than at the time all persons my age in the German, Nordic, lands were taught 3 languages from the get go, and not electives as here. This requirement includes English and they were can I say excellent with the speech. I thought it only honorable to try my hardest to return some effort.
The city, suburbs and rual areas living quarters of there citizens were to my eyes Organized, and mostly city type low structure 3 floor buildings along main roads. Very mundane or actually modest even what they call houses are very close together and many like a condo/town house built very close, It takes a eye to see there ideas of importance.
In many areas and many things over there I thought how strange? backwards then in following years in my good ole USA these very same infrastructures, technical mechanics, fashions da ta duh become all the rage here. I said quietly many times to myself how efficient, smart and sharp.
I don't care how much academics one learns in life if the experiences of others don't register in our note books, we will continue the same crap.
Im here mostly searching knowledge of experienced fabricators of textiles and leathers from traditionally taught and professionally instructed members.
I wish most times I was waayyy more educated in the writings for this here "Group" of an "Organized" craft women and men, as my teachers in writings did little smiling I hope further along it gets better here.
Have a good day
Im going to go weld in this "wet heat" another work table, Later ; )
Doc the wide variance hinges on income. Two parties earning the same income can have varied premiums because the final number is part of your overall returns. If you paid too little for health insurance they get you on the return. It's difficult to predict your income for them. This is how they gauge the premium. If you underestimate income your premium is lower but they get you on the back end.
One short coming I see is that there isn't a decent sliding scale. If your income is $ 1000.00 over one of the earning platforms the premium can double and more. Makes no sense.
Gene - you're right - premiums will increase as the policies move forward and the care will not be as good - it's already not as good.
brmax - thanks for your service ! Your writing is fine - better then mine - it's the content that matters - Europe is already here along with everyone else - we have great workers just poor political leaders who can't get anything done. I believe we have the best minds in the world here but they are not in charge.
SA
quote without comment RE: The Donald
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/donald-trump-running-for-president/398345/
Elder care is a big concern. And in Europe, especially GB this is already happening. Will O-care be able to afford our aging population?
This from the Washington post.
President Obama had been confronted by a North Carolina woman asking if "everyone that's Medicare age will be visited and told they have to decide how they wish to die."
In response Obama joked morbidly about euthanasia, that he hadn't yet hired enough bureaucrats to conduct such an operation, yet he could not deny the New York Post's discovery the House bill...
"compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care" (pages 425-430).
In other words, your grandmother will be told, when insufficient resources are rationed to young people, that her duty to die begins with mandatory "end-of-life counseling," or...
As Obama explained, "encourage the use of living wills" that terminate otherwise salvageable lives prematurely through signed "do not resuscitate" (DNR) legal releases that authorize "pulling the plug" on Grandma.
The White House made a quick video to refute claims of euthanasia in the health care bill, but interestingly they deleted Obama's quote about living wills, and AARP sent emails claiming rumors about euthanasia in the bill were generated by conspiracy theorists.
But then a respected bioethicist wrote a scathing editorial in the Washington Post, confirming that euthanasia is initiated by the government in the bill.
"Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive -- money -- to do so."
http://www.knowthelies.com/node/7930
That's a bit of old news, kodyD. When O care was first being promoted there were claims that it included 'death panels'. O and the white house and the main stream media denied it. When it came out that there are indeed 'death panels' mandated in O care, no one seemed to care.
A few of our elected Republicans, who are just as much in favor of O care as the Democrats, gave lip service to being against it and then moved on.
Welcome to som. The Government takes care of us from cradle to grave - literally. There are no more individual rights and freedoms. Liberty? What's that? Everything is based on what a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats say is best for the society.
You can still buy a copy of Hillary Clinton's book, It Takes a Village.
gene
End of life care. What's wrong with that? The way I see it, it's like an a la carte menu... you can order whatever you like. Or not. If you wish to talk about end of life options then do so. If you don't wish to discuss it, then don't. Some of us think that grim discussion is long overdue! some of us would like to see options available that return to us the thing everyone really wants... choice. If that's a "death panel"... bring it on, it's long past time to get serious and deal frankly with the issue. Grow up and get real.
As someone who spent just shy of 4 yrs. caring for an elderly, frail, mentally failing parent I know from whence I speak, you guys (and probably better than most of you!). My mother made no provisions whatsoever for her last days on this planet. She figured the will she and my father had drawn up in 1980/whatever would guarantee that their property would automatically pass to their kids. And that all insurance stuff would be just fine, too. I wish I had a shot of her face when she realized that it was too late to institute changes to that will and that it was too late to "isolate and protect" the very assets she wanted to see passed to her kids. You have no idea how hard it is to work full time and care for an elderly person who can no longer care for themselves. You have no idea how hard it is to coordinate your work schedule with that of your spouse to minimize "alone time" for the elderly person. You have no idea how trying and difficult it is to find reliable help that shows up reliably to cover the gaps in the care you and your spouse provide. Consider yourselves lucky... I'd be willing to bet if you'd hoed the same row I did, you'd look at the "death panel" foolishness with very different eyes.
Single payer national health insurance. It's time and the many hidden people who did what I did need it... "death panels" and all!
I'm with you on single payer all the way bobbin.
MIL passed in Feb. We're still sorting out some of her health insurance issues. Nursing home ripped MIL off at every opportunity, buying non-generic at a horrendous mark-up no less. UGH!
Fortunately, in-laws did see a competent attorney who drew up the necessary provisions to protect the assets that they wanted passed onto their two children. However, I saw lots of people at that nursing home that you could tell were penniless and dependent upon the State for their room & board. There simply has to be a better way. What we are doing now is so screwed up it absolutely drives me crazy!
Virginia
You see that is the problem with social programs, it takes the decisions out of the family and hands it to the government. Okay fine I get it, your too busy to look after your parent.
I come from a very close nit family. We were all there when my father passed. It was a big deal because he was a very ornery old man. And now my mother is 82 and starting to show her age. Two months ago she fell and broke her pelvis. We were all there for her. She stayed with my youngest sister in St Petersburg for a month while she went to physical therapy. Now she is back home in Tallahassee near my other sister and almost fully recovered. I'm the middle man running her back and fourth. Next week I'll drive her to St Pete again as she plans a trip to Ireland with my sister and niece.
Thank god she didn't have to appear before some death panel who would have told her she needs to think about end of life.
Point is elder care used to be handled by family. I don't know whats going on with people today and their attitude toward the elderly. (Or in the womb for that matter). Used to be a time when we took care of our own. Has the world become so complicated that everyone is too busy to look after the ones who brought us into this world.
That's not a real fair generalization kodydog. When FIL passed, we were very fortunate that, due to his illness, we were able to bring him home from the hospital. SIL, before her heart attack, had been a geriatric nurse and she pretty much provided round the clock care for my FIL the 2 weeks he had left on this earth. We rented a hospital bed and had it set up in their living room. The afternoon he passed, the entire family was in the room with him, chatting quietly. We were so happy that he passed very peacefully in his sleep.
MIL was an entirely different story. She had COPD, Parkinson's, diabitis, heart murmur and most importantly, a huge case of the lazies. She said time and time again that retirement to her meant sitting in her lift chair reading, watching TV or working brain puzzles. Unfortunately, that meant her muscles atrophied which is the worst thing you can do with Parkinson's. She was at home for almost 5 years after FIL passed with my SIL trying to care for her. But, SIL has her own health issues and lifting mom up and down 15-20 times a day was taking its toll on my SIL's health. Once SIL was unable to care for her, the only option was a nursing home. Our house doesn't have wheel chair access, it is only a 2 bedroom house and the second bedroom long ago was converted into another purpose. Would have taken months and thousands of dollars which we didn't have to convert that back into a bedroom that MIL could have used. The bigger issue would have been how to care for her. I am fused and cannot lift over 50 pounds. Had I tried to do what SIL did, I would have wound up flat on my back in Omaha having another level of my spine fused. Bob also has his own medical issues, besides which a son should not be wiping and bathing his mother. That's just wrong on so many levels. She had only a 6 month short term disability policy which she had long ago used up so no insurance would have paid for help to come in with MIL. That's the sum total of our family. 2 kids and an in-law and all three of us have disabilities. So, no choice but to use a nursing home.
I will also say that the 11 months in the nursing home, MIL was the happiest that she had been since FIL passed. Her nursing home had tons of activities and she participated in as many as she could with her health. She was around her peers, she had started painting again, most days they were able to get her exercising and psychologically she was very content. We didn't just "dump" her in the home because we didn't have time or didn't care. That was the best solution we had. Between the four of us (one grandchild), she saw family 5 or 6 days a week. Her friends and pastor were in almost daily as well. She had a smile on her face every day that she was in that place and said continuously that she realized how fortunate she was having a family who cared enough to visit her often. We did that because we loved her and she was EXTREMELY important to all of us. There is still a huge void in all of our lives because she is gone. We would loved for her to be able to pass at home like my FIL did but with her health issues and our issues that just was not feasible.
I would also say that I firmly believe that people who have long painful illnesses should be able to choose dying with dignity. A hundred years ago, people were not kept alive because of ventilators and other assorted machinery. That is one aspect of modern medicine that I don't think actually enhances life in some circumstances. But that is just how I believe. You are entitled to your beliefs as well. But people should be able to choose to exit this earth in a dignified manner. Nothing dignified about not being able to communicate, having machines breathe for you, etc.
Virginia
If I were given a choice how best to handle a family illness - I'd want it to be mine 100%. My religious beliefs are not intended to sway others. The leaderships during our lifespans have not had our best interest in mind. There is no reason to believe things will get better. Benefits cost money and the branches need to learn accounting.
In regard to end of life - every family should choose their own course whether religious based or not. Unfortunately the opinions within a Family can cause internal discourse when this time is presented. Lucky they have some good drugs to make the patient very comfortable.
SA
Quote from: SteveA on July 22, 2015, 09:19:11 am
Lucky they have some good drugs to make the patient very comfortable.
.......And drain what little money is left in your wallet.