What am I doing wrong here? Each cover I make seams to be a little worse than the one before it. I think I may have picked up some bad habits. I thought perhaps I was putting too many darts in my covers trying to make them smooth and tight so I was careful not to over dart this one, and as you can see in the pic, it is down right hidious. Suggestions welcome and appreciated.
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http://kloppenberg.us/wrinkles (http://kloppenberg.us/wrinkles)
Tim
I wouldnt beat myelf up
On it ill bet the customer was verry happy its canvas ya you dont want wrinkles but its a. Cover not a top of windoe thst where i get resl. picky. Heres my last similar cover
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/covers/photo2-41.jpg
Mike's right - don't beat yourself up about that. It looks fine. You're doomed with that particular cover because of the horizontal breaks in the railing. The only way to not have those divits cause wrinkles is to make it so loose it doesn't pull down in those areas. That being said, it almost looks like your sewing machine might have the tension too tight on some seams - those places where I see the wrinkles forming a "tent" shape - up towards the right and left, meeting along a seam. Does your machine draw up the fabric?
IMHO, covers that look like shrinkwrap are ALWAYS too hard to put on. I've seen more than a few that the owner has to wet with a hose in order to get the snaps on. And when the canvas dries, it can actually pull the snap studs out of the boat.
June
I have to agree with Mike and June, don't beat yourself up.
I also agree with June, it seems your machine is pinching or should I say puckering the fabric. If your tension is not set right this will occur. If your tension is OK then it could be the way your feeding the fabric.
I had the same thing happen to me once and it turned out to be the way I was feeding the fabric. My wife actually caught it for me while I was sewing. She just happened to be watching as I was sewing and brought it up to me. I never realized I was doing it but started seeing the fabric pucker up.
Chris
Tim,
Bob with Toledo Machine Sales, posted an interesting fact about walking foot machines used to do boat cover work. It is on the business section and Bob reported that he has sold the Amish, who do boat covers, 8 Juki walking foot machines. What is significant in that post is, the Amish didn't select a needle feet walking foot machine to avoid seam puckering. In my experience with seaming the thinner boat cover material, I can identify with the Amish machine selection (which was something like a 1181 Juki - look it up as I may have the nomenclature wrong).
You are encouraged, as well, to work with your thread tensions a bit in hopes of getting less puckering.
This is not being critical Tim.
Just thought it might be an interesting read for you.
Doyle
I find also that the presser foot tension on my machine can make a big difference when dealing with puckering. Don't quite know why. When working with the 7oz sunbrella it has to have a "light step".
Put me down for a "don't sweat it" also Tim. Physics are against you on this boat. Look at the top edge where the canvas has to turn down the side---Like June pointed out you've got spaces with no railing, then that seat back sticks up 2-3 " , yadda yadda yadda. The only thing you could have done ,if the customer was that anal, would have been to pattern the top to the top of the rail and then sew on a flat panel to come down the sides.
QuoteI find also that the presser foot tension on my machine can make a big difference when dealing with puckering. Don't quite know why
Me too.
Thanks for the pat on the back! The customer did not complain, and in fact I have had several compliments on my wrinkly covers. It's only when I produce an almost perfect product; that's when I get complaints about wrinkles etc. Go figure!
I do have a competitor that makes a fantastic looking cover, almost no wrinkles, but I have had customers come to me complaing of his snake-like personallity, so it must be my good looks and charm that keeps the phone ringing ;D
I also say it may be presser foot preasure i lIke a lite preasure.
Ive seen pickered seams where if you pull on the seam tou can stresch out the puckers.
And i think with anlighter foot preasure it dosent occor as much.
Do a test on a measured length of fabric and see if it shortens uP after you see it make it long enough to see say 8'
Dunno about you folks but regarding the gathering of Sunbrella.
Machine set up ,and style of sewing aside. (each to their own)
'Tiz sad to say but Sunbrella aint what it used to be.. It's crap these days.
It has no guts to it at all. As for the 80 inch wide it's diabolical,
It may as well be dress fabric.
The PU coated is much better as stiffness goes but the sticky backing collects all the dirt and stays sticky and filthy forever..
Had a word with the Sunbrolly rep, He went on about the finishing of the fabric and the resin baths all the while he's pushing his extensive range of Glen Raven furniture fabrics. Guess the core of the business has taken another route..
Ooo while I'm on a rant , Standards at Strataglass are slipping too.
When I'm paying through the snout for supposedly the best product for the job
The barrel being marked grade A
I expect ALL the sheets within to be dam-near perfect.
NEW "Strataglass " Same price but Now with extra bubbles and blemishes !
Nevermind eh ...................... ::)
Ok, Looks like I'm going to be the jerk here. Tim asked for help because he is obviously not satisfied with the job he did. I admire him for wanting to produce a better product. Telling him not to sweat it isn't answering his questions or helping him. Quite frankly, that job wouldn't leave our shop. Sorry Tim, but don't feel bad, I've
been exactly where you are.
First problem is that it's a pontoon boat with railing breaks (as mentioned) and rounded cushions that stick up
above the railing. Too many up, downs, ins, outs and angles. Cockpit covers on pontoon boats should be double
a similar sized cover for a sportboat. I've done an over windshield cockpit cover on a 48' Sunseeker and would
gladly do another one over a 24' pontoon boat.
Get out of the habit of having seams run side to side. Seams should run front to back. We used to go side to
side and covers would stretch out and peak at the supports like a big top tent. Glen Raven said it was due to
warp vs. weft. That's also why the cover is pulling in between the snaps. We double stitch our center seam for
cockpit covers. 1st stitch about 3/4" from edge then fold a stitch line and stitch again. The support poles are
going on the center line and the strong seam there will help out.
When I do a pontoon boat cover I fit to the top of the rail then fit a separate skirt piece around the perimeter.
Hard to tell but the picture looks as if you folded the edge under. Never works out for me. I always reinforce
with webbing and bind the edge.
Setting machine tension is a must but one trick many don't do is to hold the material in front and behind the
needle as you're sewing. This keeps the top and bottom layers even with each other. If you sew a seam then
pull it out it should be smooth. If one panel is smooth and the other has some pucker then the panels didn't
sew evenly.
QuoteGet out of the habit of having seams run side to side. Seams should run front to back. We used to go side to
side and covers would stretch out and peak at the supports like a big top tent.
I've always "arranged" it that my support poles fell on the side to side seams for that same "tenting" issue and of course top stitched as you describe. I have if required also sewn a webbing "ridge pole" down the cover front to back to mount the poles into.
That said; don't your customers complain about the extra yardage/labour to run the seams for and aft? Or do find that 119" is wide enough (two passes) when you add the skirt as a separate piece and come out at roughly the same yardage and time spent?
Ive held the seam like that dbr front snd back but only when seeing a seam face to face i need 2 hand to hold te fabric down flat tor top stitching. I did say i think part of tims problem may be to tight of a foot preasure i like mine loose somloose i can stop the material while sewing i think too tight can gather the seam.
On your seam on the rail ill do that but i wonder hos tim is patterning the cover when i patterned wity a blank of fabric id sew side to side seams loke on a ponntoon it alway more then 10' wide needed mayby 12' so id cut off 12' runs sew sideways seams and fir the canvav kver the boat on a trailer. But patterning on a lift i cant do that to i make plastic pattern and have learned to do half pattern a d duplicate sides so i fit the pattern on the table to 6O" canvas with seams and i like the front to back seams better.
I agree ill take a normal bost any day to a pontoon
Quote from: DBR1957 on February 13, 2013, 11:29:09 am
Ok, Looks like I'm going to be the jerk here. Tim asked for help because he is obviously not satisfied with the job he did. I admire him for wanting to produce a better product. Telling him not to sweat it isn't answering his questions or helping him. Quite frankly, that job wouldn't leave our shop. Sorry Tim, but don't feel bad, I've
been exactly where you are.
First problem is that it's a pontoon boat with railing breaks (as mentioned) and rounded cushions that stick up
above the railing. Too many up, downs, ins, outs and angles. Cockpit covers on pontoon boats should be double
a similar sized cover for a sportboat. I've done an over windshield cockpit cover on a 48' Sunseeker and would
gladly do another one over a 24' pontoon boat.
Get out of the habit of having seams run side to side. Seams should run front to back. We used to go side to
side and covers would stretch out and peak at the supports like a big top tent. Glen Raven said it was due to
warp vs. weft. That's also why the cover is pulling in between the snaps. We double stitch our center seam for
cockpit covers. 1st stitch about 3/4" from edge then fold a stitch line and stitch again. The support poles are
going on the center line and the strong seam there will help out.
When I do a pontoon boat cover I fit to the top of the rail then fit a separate skirt piece around the perimeter.
Hard to tell but the picture looks as if you folded the edge under. Never works out for me. I always reinforce
with webbing and bind the edge.
Setting machine tension is a must but one trick many don't do is to hold the material in front and behind the
needle as you're sewing. This keeps the top and bottom layers even with each other. If you sew a seam then
pull it out it should be smooth. If one panel is smooth and the other has some pucker then the panels didn't
sew evenly.
Thanks for those tips, I will try some of the things you mentioned on future covers. Not all my covers look as bad as the pic that I posted, but I am never happy with the final product. Interesting you mentioned the fold under edge. I just went back to using binding today and that alone made a big difference.
So when you fit to the top rail and then do a skirt around the perimeter; do you staple or pin the pieces together, or use reference marks? Thanks again for the help, I really want to take my work to a higher level.
Tim
Tim i slways bind and web the edge its just faster and time is money.
I have hemmed tms few times when binding want available.
Darren let me aw ser tou wiestion s i dont findd front to back seams more labor espi ially when pplasti. Patterning wi h i have vranted thats more labor then a blank. But i save alot of time doing only half a pattern on a cover working drom inside the bost on a lift itsreally the only way. And figuring the material if i measure a pontoon and i measure 24' lcront to back and 12' wide with a side to dide seam. 24'devided by 5' passes thsts 5 times 12' wide 30 yards. I cine forwards seam may
Only be 3 yards extra. 30 no big deal figuring time saved patterning being half ampattern id find it hard to make it side to side seams anyway
Mike, How you can pattern only half the boat is amazing to me! It seems like you would run the risk of the cover coming out either too wide or too narrow even if only by a 1/2".
What about when you have a ladder or something on one side but not the other?
well tim on this pontoon I patterned the side with the window with a pocket to allow the window fir the port side I just cut the fabric flat and eliminated the window pocket
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2Fcovers%2Fth_7140b95d.jpg&hash=9fd681360d24b60f54ea2e514ce5da2e) (http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/covers/7140b95d.jpg)
this red cover the port was patterned and the extra walkway piece just eliminated on the other side
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2Fcovers%2Fth_photo2-1.jpg&hash=c311cdbc45c1835951df864f1b8cefac) (http://s782.beta.photobucket.com/user/Mike8560/media/covers/photo2-1.jpg.html)
other time its just too different like the trolling motor on the bow here so I do 3 sections right front and left front then just one side on the rear (https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2Fcovers%2Fth_photo-15.jpg&hash=2b9266dd003a7920f012ec94a1892939) (http://s782.beta.photobucket.com/user/Mike8560/media/covers/photo-15.jpg.html)
other times its all equal
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2Fcovers%2Fth_MVC-487S.jpg&hash=d2867d1dbefecae3c12db93135e92c3e) (http://s782.beta.photobucket.com/user/Mike8560/media/covers/MVC-487S.jpg.html)
Quote from: R.A.F. CaNvAs on February 13, 2013, 01:14:36 am
'Tiz sad to say but Sunbrella aint what it used to be.. It's crap these days.
Yup. 20 year old tops come in for repairs and it feels thicker than brand new cloth. More money spent on 'finishing chemicals' less on acrylic if you ask me. It might be in my mind but it seems black has gotten thicker feeling in the last year? Burgundy is like tissue paper though.
Tim's top looks like some I've made. I like the skirt around the edge too. The sewer likes the side to side seams going over the rail. She also likes to 'push' the fabric under the needle. She's a fabulous sewer aside from the puckering and her red hair. (The red hair precludes her from listening to any criticism.)
As for the warp/weft debate my guess would be: a warp faced fabric (like Sunbrella) would stretch less across the weft which is a straight line of string and stretch more along the warp that is going over and under the weft and so has more length to stretch out. Just my guess.
I see more "shrinkage" sewing up the roll ---ergo; the shorter that seam the better for fit.Mocha sunbrella is by far the worst. I got sent out to install a set of patio blinds that the other upholsterer had sewn up and they were all a mile too short. After the customer had chewed one cheek and the boss BBQ'd the other in front of the rest of staff , we did an experiment. On a 78" run it shrank over 2 " up the roll and around a 1/4" across the 60" width.
Darren how did it take for the shrinkage?
I've been there Tim and the long and short of it is yes you can improve the seams
but you will never cure it . sometimes you got to accept the material vs machine limitations
I've done the sewing long ways and across the roll and it is definitely different each way, seam pucker
is very noticeable length ways
Yes you could get better results with a puller attachment on your machine but that is going to set you back
a lot of cash.
I spent about a year cursing wrinkles and yes with time spent trying different needles, tensions, foot pressure, stitch length and feed dog hole sizes
I got to a point where I just had to say this is as good as it gets.
One thing to note is the direction you seam your covers, if you seam a navy top fore to aft then you can use the
tension between the frame and windscreen to pull out 90% of the wrinkles, but you need to staple everything
out on your bench when patterning with a little bit of tension to make it play like it would on the boat.
QuoteDarren how did it take for the shrinkage?
Did you mean "how LONG" it took? It was instant. I tried to install later the same day.
Quote from: Peppy on February 23, 2013, 08:36:54 pm
As for the warp/weft debate my guess would be: a warp faced fabric (like Sunbrella) would stretch less across the weft which is a straight line of string and stretch more along the warp that is going over and under the weft and so has more length to stretch out. Just my guess.
Just to clarify for the non-weavers in the crowd; weft = across the roll, warp = up the roll.
ive seen sunbrella cover shrink but it was over years and the owners wanted snap extentions for the rear, mostly ive noticed it streach making a nice tight aft curtuanj see ut katr abd it sagging or a tight laced on t op sagging in the morning dew and tight in the afternoon sun
Ya it's unbelievable how damp Sunbrella sags. Can be bullet tight at lunch in the sun, and the morning it's flapping in the breeze under the dew. Although its the same with a lot of canvas. I've seen it with seamark which I never would of thought. I have pictures somewhere of a seamark top in the AM then in full sun. I was astonished.
Yaepoy id think it only shrunk it slway tight ass drum that ive seen.
Ny t top has outdura and every morning i see sags a bit between the frames mid day its tigh again i need to put my coffee doen and tighten the lacings when its loose and see but im lazy.
Well i have to go install a 16 panel enclosure today. And its cold out. :(
Yep I just got back from stretching a windscreen in place that "didn't fit". I told the customer hold it and keep holding it and it will stretch slowly, and be easy to install this summer. I got the call back" it just don't fit". He did look a bit sheepish when he came out and it was installed.
Forsale this windsreen was sunbrella not clear vinyl ?
Ive made a snap on. O koit cover real tight at the rear snap ehen ininstall then later or the next day i can snap it with one hand. But if the customer is watching when you install there. Concerened.
Thing is they streach and i dont want it sll loose puccfilng water in back. And iv had customer call that it did and i trimed it tighter. Then i hear other peoplel not cover ive made and i see it it shrunk so bad it wont ome. Lose to s apping i wonder it they get lazy ive had some say even when i snap it easy later that maybe they just dont bother snappit all the snaps and then its allowed to shrink. And gets worse as youve seen sunbrella will shrink drying in the sun all day.
This was a strataglass windscreen with sunbrella facing. I built it in the summer heat and he was installing in cold temps.The vinyl is amazing how it changes dimensions with temp change. Ive been working on my outside table in the sun then come inside the boat and the vinyl would shrink 3/4" by the time I laid it out on my inside table out of the sun. The outside table is big enough to handle a sheet of strata the inside just big enough for a single panel.