The Upholster.com Forum

  over the years, I've built hundreds of bimini s  and inclosures and most all have come out looking great,
  but every now and then one slips throu that looks like crap in the outside corners..
  and the bad part, I dont know what I did to make it come out like that..

common sence would tell you that its to tight at the end of the zipper but when I unzip it, the issue moves further up the top...
  If I knew what the problem was, Id know how to fix it but I cant figure out where the problem lies.....
  please help with my crappy corners.. ??? ??? ??? ???
   

Do youkneen the zippered pocket or the enclosure zipper?

Quote from: Mike on January 09, 2012, 09:31:04 am
Do youkneen the zippered pocket or the enclosure zipper?

its the zipper pocket of the bimini.. I dont sew in a pocket without a zipper.. I find it easer to install instead of feeding all the tubes through the pockets..
the nasties are being created from where the zipper pulls from the outside fabric

I had something like that happening to me a while ago. It was because I was drawing the line for the seam on the wrong place on the pattern.

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6220004.jpg&hash=f1f2bb63acea1113dc4f7560a31f178f) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6220004.jpg)

Here you can see the flap with the zipper leaving the top from 12 o'clock, here labeled B

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6220004-1.jpg&hash=bec3393df32cc2bedf0552fc91f9a89e) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6220004-1.jpg)The clock shows the cross section of the tube

I was drawing my line on the B plane but not allowing  anything in my flap going around the bar. That forced the seam to lay on the A plane, tightening up everything along the flap but not at the corners, making big divets where the flap ended.

The distance from A to B around the circumference of the bar is 3/4". If you don't allow for it it can screw you up.

Had this problem in the beginning as well. I spoke with the folks at Marine Canvas Training in Florida and they told me to try this. Typically on an enclosure top, you would lay the sleeve flat and the flap flat and then mark where the zipper edge gets sewn flat to the top. On a bimini top you do the same, but at the ends (about 3 to 4 inches before the end of the zipper), start moving the zipper towards the flap about a 1/2". This effectively gives a little more room at the ends of the pockets at the curve of the frame. Worked for me. Much better now.

I've found my inconsistent results have more to do with the frame than my methods.  The more vertical the frame ends are, the easier it is to get a good fit.  If the bow ends "flatten" out and go more horizontal, getting the zips in and having the corners fit is a real chore.  I'd love the opportunity to experiment with a frame and different methods of pocket installation.  Unfortunately it takes time and fabric. 

As I see it, when the bow is more vertical, the seam doesn't have to move around the bow much.  It can be pretty much at 9 o'clock all the way, moving to 11 as you approach the end.  Not much stretching and easing of the zip tape is necessary to accommodate the curve.  As the bow gets more horizontal, the seam needs to move from 9 o'clock to 11 with LOTS of stretching and easing of the zip.  The curve becomes severe, almost a flat plane.  Sometimes I wonder if a tuck on the zip that attaches to the body of the bimini would work best.  Actually, Peppy's and Richard's (?) method of not pocketing the ends, but instead putting a short flap with snaps at the ends, would end the guesstimation altogether.

June

Reckon it all boils down to how you come around the corner. I start my line in the middle of the bow @ about 10 oclock. As I round the radius I gently nudge her to 11:30 or so. Then add seam allowance.

Contrary to ole Don Wedge @ MCTI. I prefer to sew zippers in before stitching the pocket into the top. Leave em a lil long'n trim afterward. I fold my fwd & aft pockets flat but add a lil frame allowance on mid pockets.

'Course if you're working off somebody's mutilated frame ya never know. This one was purty beat up when we recieved it but tweaked it the best we could. Customer wanted it to match his hideous seat covers. (I did not make those.) Right down to the black binding. Yuk!

Sorry ain't the best pic:

http://s918.photobucket.com/albums/ad24/71V153/?action=view&current=4bowss.jpg

Quote from: JuneC on January 09, 2012, 06:28:57 pm
I've found my inconsistent results have more to do with the frame than my methods.

Not to be rude June, but if your methods don't work for every boat I don't think you can blame the boat. Using tabs helps but also creates new problems. You need some coordination between the pattern and the cloth. I built a 'push gauge' letting me mark my line on the pattern exactly where it will fall after being eased/pushed.

I've tried explaining this several times, alas I'm bad at typing complex ideas. It wouldn't even take two beers if we could meet in person.... Anyway, see if this helps anybody, from a thread called 'Pushing' zipper flaps.

The Push Gauge-


(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6070008.jpg&hash=5c3ea24957ab996ff1b2734c72ffbb06) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6070008.jpg)

The ruler touches the top of the leading bar and the hook hooks on the bar needing the flap.

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6070006.jpg&hash=9a8c7b807cfcaf043ed5e0cd766ba17a) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6070006.jpg)

I have it marked in 1/8" but only ever mark 1/4". I use it to make ticks then join the ticks with the ruler. Here I'm marking 1/2" push.

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6070007.jpg&hash=92ddcc8547e3a755ed3823fbf6c72849) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6070007.jpg)

It seems to me that the optimum place to mark the seam is the last point that the ruler lays flat on the pattern without going over the edge. Seems the rain flap lays better when marked like this. What do you guys/gals think/do?

I then mark the push on the pattern, in this case 1/2". The sewer then lays the flap flat, then subtracts 1/2" and sews it down. (actually she now measures from the seam but same difference.)

This is only for marking seams with a flap. I almost never lay a flap flat anymore. My tops fit nicer than they ever did before in front and behind the bar. I felt like a real dummy making tops for so long without giving flaps a second thought. Oh well, hope it'll help someone else if your not doing something like this already. If anybody's interested I'll detail how I made it.

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6070011.jpg&hash=1219772732fe3efc4a5b20426d674faf) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6070011.jpg)

This is what I was making. A flybridge bimini, enclosure pattern to follow. If it ever stops raining. (I kinda hope it doesn't. I hate flybridges. Pinstripes don't make good scaffolding.)

*sorry the pictures didn't copy*

Quote from: Peppy on January 10, 2012, 06:14:01 am
Not to be rude June, but if your methods don't work for every boat I don't think you can blame the boat.

Not to worry, Peppy - I have VERY thick skin  ;D  And I totally agree.  I have to change methods for different boats and I wish I didn't.  There's always going to be variability in frames.  If there weren't, we could all have exactly one pattern and use it for everything.  But, if your pattern method is consistent for ALL frames, I'd bet your sewers have gotten really good at installing the zips and sewing the pockets to the bimini with exactly the right amount of "roll".  Or do they sew them absolutely flat against the top? 

Personally, I don't like the rain flap to creep up the pole as it rounds the corner.  I like it attached at no more than 10 o'clock so that when the enclosure is attached and snapped down, it doesn't pull the top and make the pocket baggy.  I find that if the seam is too far onto the top side, that's exactly what happens.

Speaking of bad tops, there a boat at the yard I just HAVE to get some pics of today to post.  The canvas was apparently done by (I hope, anyway) the owner or a friend, not a canvas shop.  Never saw anything quite that bad.

Quote from: CreativeCanvas on January 09, 2012, 08:19:41 pm
Contrary to ole Don Wedge @ MCTI. I prefer to sew zippers in before stitching the pocket into the top. Leave em a lil long'n trim afterward. I fold my fwd & aft pockets flat but add a lil frame allowance on mid pockets.

Same here.  Why handle all that canvas when installing zips.  On everything I make, I try to create small subassemblies before joining them all together. 

June

Quote from: JuneC on January 10, 2012, 07:16:42 am
I'd bet your sewers have gotten really good at installing the zips and sewing the pockets to the bimini with exactly the right amount of "roll".  Or do they sew them absolutely flat against the top? 

Yes. I work with the best sewers on earth. You can either lay them flat and mark, then subtract your 'push'. Or measure from the seam if you have the flap width and push allowance all figured out. Then you follow that line while sewing.

Regalman's problem (and anyone who runs the flap around the corner) is do to the fact that the cross-section of the tube in relation to the top is oval and therefore has a larger circumference around the corner. This is due to geometry and not a squished tube. And why June has problems with steep pitches.

Here's how to make the push stick-

I'm not sure anybody wants to know, but here it is anyway. How to make the gauge-

This is a scrap of 1/8" HDPE high density poly-ethylene it's what they make yougurt containers out of, it takes a staple awesome and is easy to cut. We also have 1/16" that I make all my permanent patterns out of.
(sorry it's so faint you should be able to see when it blows up?)

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6150022.jpg&hash=9d8b04639123e40d6f56d6694291e601) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6150022.jpg)
So- I use a fostner bit the same size as the tubing and cut half way into the plastic making 2 holes. I join the 2 centers with a line. This line is 0" push, or laid flat.

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6150023.jpg&hash=8c8b6a918651d8738392fcab83e66756) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6150023.jpg)
Then I take a cloth tape and wrap it around the tube and hold it in the half drilled hole. Keeping the inch mark on the ruler lined up to the 0" push line. Then I mark 1/4" increments. I guess you could mark 1/8" or for that matter 1/64" but a 1/4" seems enough.

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P6150025.jpg&hash=87793ae8cb7672e58bdd8d2892c0f1b0) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P6150025.jpg)
then join the tops of the 2 circles with a line and cut it out like shown. The lower part of the plastic is scrap or can be used to make a second gauge. I mounted mine on a ruler so I don't lose it. And I cut the lines out with a hacksaw so I can see the push lines on both sides of the gauge.

Ta-da! There is a push gauge! I encourage you guys to give it a go on a future boat top. The fit noticeably improves. And there's nothing to lose. You've pushed the flap into the bar 1/4" or a 1/2" if it doesn't work or you don't like it you can trim that 1/4" or 1/2" off at the zipper (so long as you do zipper flaps/pole pockets that is)

Regalman's problem (and anyone who runs the flap around the corner) is do to the fact that the cross-section of the tube in relation to the top is oval and therefore has a larger circumference around the corner. (This is due to geometry and not a squished tube). And why June has problems with steep pitches.

Quote from: Peppy on January 10, 2012, 09:26:25 am
Regalman's problem (and anyone who runs the flap around the corner) is do to the fact that the cross-section of the tube in relation to the top is oval and therefore has a larger circumference around the corner. (This is due to geometry and not a squished tube). And why June has problems with steep pitches.

Exactly!  So when you get to the corner of the bimini, and the bow angles sharply back towards the center pivot-point, how do you use your tool to mark the pattern?  You continue to use the same line?  Your last pic has a fairly upright frame.  I seem to get lots of windshield mounted frames that are a lot more horizontal than that one.  Take that frame and lower it by about 1.5 feet and that's what I have to deal with.

And, how far from the edge of the bimini do you stop your pockets?  I generally leave 2-2.5 inches for the bimini to overlap the enclosure.  Carrying the pocket too close to the edge makes it tough to get a watertight fit.  It can also wreak havoc with the fit of the top itself.  Not carrying the bimini down far enough on the sides makes it easier to get a good fit, but not very good for the shelter you're trying to achieve. 

June

Quote from: JuneC on January 10, 2012, 07:16:42 amI like it attached at no more than 10 o'clock so that when the enclosure is attached and snapped down, it doesn't pull the top and make the pocket baggy.  I find that if the seam is too far onto the top side, that's exactly what happens.

I know what you meen getting baggy pockets. but i find it the tops tight( not easy wiyh an aluminum frame ) having roll in the pocket so the seam in not at 90º i find a tigh top will not roll and have baggy pocket once the window is snaped on anp pull tight
I also put my zips on the pocket first dong then nice i sew then in the center of the p[ocket  a fast cheap top somtime ill sew then on the tail edge of the pocket once side of the zipper to the top
I placw my seam here as if you layed a straight edge from the widow to the first bow and a 2nd from that bow to the next thew point were the 2 strait edged intersect is my seam location
i think part of the problem at the cornewr occors because there is flex in the frame in the center of the frame but at the corner it more rigid  located at the top of the leg plus you either have a support strut or a strap pulling tight also but the cventer of the fram had give no what i meen'/?

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2Fth_Untitled-TrueColor-01.jpg&hash=253485bbb9a52ce6fb27dc40131de643) (http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/Untitled-TrueColor-01.jpg)

Ok, so here's an extreme example of what I'm describing.  Look at the first photo (larger photo gives best view) - note the forward top frame.

http://boats.iboats.com/2006-chaparral-boats-310-signature/337767.html

Peppy, how would you use your tool when approaching the corner of that?

June

Quote from: JuneC on January 10, 2012, 04:02:18 pm

And, how far from the edge of the bimini do you stop your pockets?  I generally leave 2-2.5 inches for the bimini to overlap the enclosure.  Carrying the pocket too close to the edge makes it tough to get a watertight fit.  It can also wreak havoc with the fit of the top itself.  Not carrying the bimini down far enough on the sides makes it easier to get a good fit, but not very good for the shelter you're trying to achieve. 

June

We stop the flaps at the bend marks. Before the curve. Then tabs are used on the curve approx 2" apart. I don't have good pictures.

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P4190006.jpg&hash=c5ba99c3600f82321ea7f1a76c498eef) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P4190006.jpg)

Here you can barely see what I mean,

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P3180002.jpg&hash=f4d86cacba87b797b02dc23ad830e507) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=P3180002.jpg)

And here the tabs aren't installed yet. It is a pain to drill the tabs but I'm over it. The (relative) ease of drilling holes offsets the headache of trying to figure out the curve pocket, and adds a huge amount of leeway fitting the top.

I'm sure you could make a push stick to do the corners but it would take some figuring. I have run a flap to the edge a few times but haven't a science for it yet, just eyeballed it with my push stick guessing. Since it's an oval and the oval would change depending on the angle you might need a few different profiles.. But Regal's suggestion of adding extra push is the right answer, I haven't found the right question yet I guess.

Marking a flap I would want my seam to lie where Mike says. I lay my stick on the bars-

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_31faf1c104942aad7a963179dc5a0ae6471aede9.png&hash=2d70de7122e0c052c52656150d231b66) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=31faf1c104942aad7a963179dc5a0ae6471aede9.png)

this looks like a 1/2" push. I make ticks on the bar every 6" or so along the width of the bow, then join the ticks. Now when I push my flap 1/2" on the canvas my sewing is coordinated to my pattern which has been pushed 1/2" by the stick .

I forgot to say, I only use the stick for flaps, when the flap ends I just go by eye and try to get to lay in the same place with the tabs. On that June, instead of tabs I might go with a solid doubled piece with snaps in it spaced nice. Or something.

Quote from: Peppy on January 10, 2012, 06:15:20 pm

We stop the flaps at the bend marks. Before the curve. Then tabs are used on the curve approx 2" apart. I don't have good pictures.

I'm sure you could make a push stick to do the corners but it would take some figuring. I have run a flap to the edge a few times but haven't a science for it yet, just eyeballed it with my push stick guessing.

You mean pockets?  You don't stop the rain flaps short, do you?  Now we're getting to the bottom or our miscommunication.  It's those bends that cause fits.  That's what I was talking about here when I mentioned your method of using flaps with snaps ... you call them tabs.

Quote from: JuneC on January 09, 2012, 06:28:57 pm
Actually, Peppy's and Richard's (?) method of not pocketing the ends, but instead putting a short flap with snaps at the ends, would end the guesstimation altogether.

Your method of handling corners gives you, like you say, a lot of latitude in getting a good fit when you install.  I've never done one like that - I always run the pocket over to the edge of the top on the leading/trailing edge, and inside bits where it attached to the top about 2" from the edge.  Sewing the zippered pocket around that bend potentially introduces a lot of puckering/pulling/nastiness.  The tighter the bend, the more difficult it is. 

June

Oh so that's how ya supposed to do them...
       I knew I should have gone to MCTI and got a proper schooling since
     they never mentioned bars at dressmaking class. 
         Just  wondering why mine turn out excrement 'every time'...
     I must just needed beating with ya "peppy stick"
          (https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi991.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf39%2FRAFCaNvAs%2FRuff%2520As%2520Fuq%2520canvas%2Fth_NZ262.jpg&hash=163f704e7babcd9f3b784bcbac7f3a1e) (http://s991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/RAFCaNvAs/Ruff%20As%20Fuq%20canvas/?action=view&current=NZ262.jpg)     ::)
   

RAF, that's a really nice fitting top!  What's your method of running the pockets right to the ends and consistently getting a good fit around the corners? 

June

   I've read the "Pushing the zipper" info more times than I can count and sorry but I'm lost with the guage and how it works..
   Is there any chance you could record it and put it on a disk.. I'll be the first in line to purchase a copy...

As you round the radius move your line closer toward the middle of the top.

Here's a better pic of the aqua one I just did on a purty beat up frame:

http://s918.photobucket.com/albums/ad24/71V153/?action=view&current=AquaBimini.jpg

edit: Next time I mark one out I'll take some pics.

i'm getting real confused ??

if i pattern with a blanket i will mark my aft seam at 90deg to the
top of the frame and roll it around the bend so the seam ends up
right behind the frame.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_IMG_2702-outsidecenter-undersidecenterandrolloutmarkedbetweenthetwo.jpg&hash=1aeddcbcee4377c95d4332697dbf3274) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/IMG_2702-outsidecenter-undersidecenterandrolloutmarkedbetweenthetwo.jpg)(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_rolloutline.jpg&hash=00887583ee05fc5704359fd8d2970eea) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/rolloutline.jpg)
Then I do some funky marking Northcoast call 'roll out' which takes out the pocket slack
at the ends.
Some pockets you can slide a finger up the frame and get it between the frame
and canvas, but it using 'Roll out' you can't, the pocket is snug to the frame.

If patterning with plastic I mark the frame at about 11 o'clock or the intersection point.

I dhould have noted that my diagram was a side  cut  across of a frame the dots are as if the framre was cut in half. when i first started making top i got trouble at the corners and mostly all were aluminum frames so to eli,minate the wrinkles i plaved a snap stud in the tube and the end of the pocket then i pulled the canbas around the tube to look nice and placed a snap in the pocket kinda like riches sculpted pocket where the zipper doese not round the dorner but snap are used there instead. I redid a top a whle back and the whole stainledd frame had snaps on it and no zipper at all just a flap with snaps to the tube

Quote from: Mike on January 11, 2012, 08:02:21 pm
I dhould have noted that my diagram was a side  cut  across of a frame the dots are as if the framre was cut in half. when i first started making top i got trouble at the corners and mostly all were aluminum frames so to eli,minate the wrinkles i plaved a snap stud in the tube and the end of the pocket then i pulled the canbas around the tube to look nice and placed a snap in the pocket kinda like riches sculpted pocket where the zipper doese not round the dorner but snap are used there instead. I redid a top a whle back and the whole stainledd frame had snaps on it and no zipper at all just a flap with snaps to the tube

All the convertible tops we do are snapped to the bar. If it's a bimini top or stainless it has zipper pockets.

I'll maybe try to do a video this weekend. It's really simple but hard for me to explain on here, especially since by the time I get time to post I'm half in the bag ;)

How's this for a deal- If anybody wants a push stick I'll mail you one if you send me your corporate shwag. I have a Snuggtopz mug and penlight and a ProStitch Auto Tshirt,and I'd like to add to the collection. It's not going to revolutionize anything and may be good for nothing, but it's helped my tops fit better I think and I'd like to see if it would help others. PM me if you want to do an exchange.

Quote from: RandyOnR3 on January 11, 2012, 11:38:53 am
  I'll be the first in line to purchase a copy...

Then I better put this on it-(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2Fnot%2520boats%2Fth_P9220001-1-1.jpg&hash=5de326d60fd9e42e0ff7828b0a742109) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/not%20boats/?action=view&current=P9220001-1-1.jpg)

well
I just sewed up a 9' long bimini this afternoon for a old chris craft after i make a rear sun shade for it, i have to install so where see how it goes. i like to ease the corners and not so much in the center . I used my Push Eye  :o

Quote from: Mike on January 12, 2012, 03:07:11 pm
well
I just sewed up a 9' long bimini this afternoon for a old chris craft after i make a rear sun shade for it, i have to install so where see how it goes. i like to ease the corners and not so much in the center . I used my Push Eye  :o

The Laser Eye has no equal.

I guess the added benefit of the Push Stick would be you get to blame me if it doesn't fit. 

As I indicated earlier...I only ease or roll the ends of the pockets about 3" before the end of the pockets on bimini tops only. On an enclosure top, I don't. The windows take care of the corner pulls.
I mark my seams like Mike. I mark them at the intersection of the top and the window panels. At the middle of the bow the seam is at the intersection of the top and front window. But it has to transition to the middle of the frame as it comes around the corner. This is where the front and side panels meet the top.
Just like the mid bows. The seam is at the top of the frame in the middle where the two pieces of the top fabric intersect. But at the curves it has to transition to the side.

The first two are videos

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_DSCF2585.jpg&hash=6762a018df73e715463b6e9498e2dcd3) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=DSCF2585.mp4)

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_DSCF2590.jpg&hash=401ae70de662120e5d499120cf60a90a) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=DSCF2590.mp4)

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_DSCF2591.jpg&hash=929f2d79c3a521336e8b0eb2cb876092) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=DSCF2591.jpg)

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_DSCF2592.jpg&hash=dd59390cfcf32c60904b55159125675d) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=DSCF2592.jpg)

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_DSCF2594.jpg&hash=448c272fda1f155bbe366b82df2a8e5f) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=DSCF2594.jpg)

peppy looing at yopur 1st vid with the frame tapein position. asuming the tape matches the plane of the canvas top and the aft curtian id mark my seam line about were you gage show  what you called 1/2" 
when you say 1/2" dose that meen if you had the pocket laying flat on the canvas top moving the sean location back a 1/2" ?


regal having done mant tops like this searay where there is a short top  3' in the rear of the arch and less in the front of the arch , with a 1" ss tube i found that the canVAS DOSENT HAVE MUCH GIVE AND THE FRAME WONT FLEX LIKE A LARGER TOP WHERE YOU COULD ONLY ease the corners of the pocket and the center of the top frame witrh give to i ease the entire pocket
at first if i dodnt ease them they were so darn tight good thing sea ray had a adjustabe frane with the intter tubing and the push button position lock, i had to raise the frame zip the canvas on then hang on the frame to pull it down and click the button into its locked position
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2FExpress%2520cruiser%2520enclosures%2Fth_100_0902-1.jpg&hash=7ddfd76c82373d943b7027828ad39d42) (http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/Express%20cruiser%20enclosures/100_0902-1.jpg)

That's where I marked it too Mike. But if it was a drop curtain I'd mark it at zero, if it went to a camper back I'd mark it at 3/4".

Quote from: Mike on January 14, 2012, 05:44:44 pm
dose that meen if you had the pocket laying flat on the canvas top moving the sean location back a 1/2" ?

Exactly. (https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_DSCF2591.jpg&hash=929f2d79c3a521336e8b0eb2cb876092) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view&current=DSCF2591.jpg)

What my problem that led me to making the gauge was, was that I was marking my patterns at 1/2" but doing nothing to the pockets. They laid flat. This brought the line from where I marked it around to "zero push". This tightened the top along the pocket 1/2" leaving big dimples where the pocket ended (my pockets end at the bend marks) and the line returned to where I'd marked it on the pattern. I figured my 'crappy corners' and Randy's were probably related even though we use different methods, we all wrap around the bar.

O' for the love of Allah,
   Where the hell did I leave the puppy stick ?
   Perhaps I could take this one back to the 'shop , set it up on the floor
   and make a quick half pattern !
    With ropes and cables everywhere and the boom to hit my head on ,
          There's never enough room to work on these little blow-boats.   ::)
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(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi991.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf39%2FRAFCaNvAs%2FRuff%2520As%2520Fuq%2520canvas%2Fth_P1000535.jpg&hash=73460a13e9accf681bf0d37e35466419) (http://s991.photobucket.com/albums/af39/RAFCaNvAs/Ruff%20As%20Fuq%20canvas/?action=view&current=P1000535.jpg)

That's a big job RAF!

Quote from: R.A.F. CaNvAs on January 16, 2012, 09:41:46 pm

   Perhaps I could take this one back to the 'shop , set it up on the floor
   and make a quick half pattern !
 

That's what I'd do, but I'd make a 2:1 scale model to make the pattern on. That way there'd be room to maneuver. Or use your dress maker pins and tailor the canvas on the boat. Either way be sure to bite your tongue real hard. Thats the real secret.

Saw a boat top that reminded me of this thread today. One we lost to the competition. It looked pretty good but...

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2Fth_CHfo0.jpg&hash=05d9bffee5c2d01b21a28c6da6f268f3) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/?action=view&current=CHfo0.jpg)

Looksike it puddle water and streached it pep.
I sonder if it wasnt tight enough or not enough crown

Looks like it wasn't tensioned right or the snaps were installed wrong.  Can't imagine how that would happen since the side toward the camera appears to be nicely tight.  Oh well, you get what you pay for, eh?  Caveat emptor....

June

June back in the. 90s the. Anvas would just snap to the arch and it would be easy to just oull it tighter snapping. Ut ill bet that boat like a searay had a p c track and kedar along with the canvas snapping to the arch  so they pronly couldnt pull it tighter then the kedar and loose it luddled and streached. 

No, this was a pushing mistake. The zipper pocket was payed flat instead of pushed 3/4". When it was installed the center part would have fit loosely and the corners would have been screaming tight. As the fabric relaxed the loosely fitting center started to flap in the wind and catch water. When it was new I bet if you undid the zipper pocket it would have fit perfectly. Doing up the zipper pulled the main top 3/4" around the bar making everything behind the pocket 3/4" long. I'm so certain because I made tops like that untill a few years ago.

Fixing this now would be difficult I think. I imagine the fabric wouldn't lay flat and you couldn't pull it out at the snaps. I bet you would have to seam it some how.

Ah, I see now, Peppy. The bag is only behind the pocket.  I didn't notice the pocket location before.  I think your analysis is dead on.

June

Hmm. When I do mine there are a few key points I follow that havent been mentioned.When setting up the frame for patterning, I lock the corners of the fore and aft bows then use a line run down the center to bend the centers of the bows in. This gives a spring loaded tightness to the center when the bimini is installed.

For marking the pattern I simply look at where the pocket and the top will meet on the furthest point of the frame away from center. That way when I sew it I start at the center and sew out towards the ends pulling the fabrics away from the seam equally to locate the inside edge of the pocket. I make the pocket extra wide sewing the zipper in the center in a straight line from center to edge.

I take great pride in my biminis and consider it my specialty. Ive adjusted many droopy biminis done by others by pinching the material together at the flap and marking for a seam that tightens everything up. Makes some crappy biminis look much better.

Quote from: forsailbyowner on July 31, 2012, 03:53:21 pm
Hmm. When I do mine there are a few key points I follow that havent been mentioned.When setting up the frame for patterning, I lock the corners of the fore and aft bows then use a line run down the center to bend the centers of the bows in. This gives a spring loaded tightness to the center when the bimini is installed.

I also tension the center of bimini's. But I also tension the bend marks: I have three tension straps on a Bimini. On a convertible top I only tension the bends. Do you only tension the center?

Quote
For marking the pattern I simply look at where the pocket and the top will meet on the furthest point of the frame away from center. That way when I sew it I start at the center and sew out towards the ends pulling the fabrics away from the seam equally to locate the inside edge of the pocket. I make the pocket extra wide sewing the zipper in the center in a straight line from center to edge.

Apologies, but I'm not understanding?

I lock the frame at the bends with strap or hard kicks. when i bend the centers of the bars in they naturally get tensioned at the corners.Im not seeing how after you push the corners you obtain the location for sewing the inboard seam of the pocket. Is it possible my bending the center of the bowin has the same effect as pushing the seam? I locate the aforementioned inboard edge of the pcket by pulling flap away and laying the pocket flat on the top with the seam equidistant from the flap on top and pocket.