Is it just me, or does anyone else also feel that DIY upholstery articles, books and videos are a tad bit insulting to those who've mastered the craft? Time and time again, I keep coming across these online articles that make it seem like just about anyone can do auto upholstery - which I find totally absurd. (1) Because it's misleading to those poor souls who give it a try and wind up wasting money in the process, and (2) because it completely overlooks those aspects of upholstery that you just can't teach - like the artistry of it all.
I rant a bit about it on my blog: http://www.thehogring.com/2011/03/20/the-problem-with-diy-auto-upholstery/
But I'm interested in what you all think. Am I taking this a bit too personal or do I have some merit here?
I do hope I can get my thoughts across without sounding like a ditz.
I would think that DIY articles that teach shoddy methods would be written by people that are not masters of the craft! I personally am not a pro by any means, but I have upholstered car bench seats and motorcycle seats for myself and because I have a bit of common sense the projects came out beautifully. You folks that are professional upholsterers have much more knowledge about thread, fabric, vinyl etc. than I do and thusly I have to consult with this WONDERFUL website for information. If someone just starting out trying to recover their motorcycle seat only consult the DIY site that you wrote about on the HogRing, then they are not thinking about the project very well, or they just plain don't care what it looks like.
If I were a professional upholsterer I wouldn't worry too much about the "shoddy DIY" sites. You know that the work you do is good, accurate and you put your heart into it!
You pros keep up the good work and please keep answering my ignorant questions!!
Carol
I love it when people watch those DIY shows on TV. More business for me when they bring it in for me to fix. And if they've screwed it up to badly for me to salvage, I don't mind telling them so.
I really don't think those DIY websites take any food off our table.
In fact, I think it gives the customer a greater appreciation of what we do (and what it's worth for us to do it).
Quote from: sofadoc on March 20, 2011, 09:20:49 pm
I love it when people watch those DIY shows on TV. More business for me when they bring it in for me to fix. And if they've screwed it up to badly for me to salvage, I don't mind telling them so.
I really don't think those DIY websites take any food off our table.
In fact, I think it gives the customer a greater appreciation of what we do (and what it's worth for us to do it).
Like wise on the marine frontage, from my point of view ;)
I have no problem at all helping or advising customers who want to DIY, 90% of the time they give up when they find out it's not the easy ;D Or give it a year & come back for the real deal :D
One thing I do a lot of in my shop is tinting. Not easy to do well. Thi guy who has tried it is usually my best customer. That goes for a lot of other thinge we do. Upholstry , complicated electronics installs too. The diy'er isn't gonna get pro results on the first try !! Did you?
Try on line sewing machine repair videos... :P
Quote from: TheHogRing on March 20, 2011, 07:20:18 pm
Is it just me, or does anyone else also feel that DIY upholstery articles, books and videos are a tad bit insulting to those who've mastered the craft? Time and time again, I keep coming across these online articles that make it seem like just about anyone can do auto upholstery - which I find totally absurd. (1) Because it's misleading to those poor souls who give it a try and wind up wasting money in the process, and (2) because it completely overlooks those aspects of upholstery that you just can't teach - like the artistry of it all.
I rant a bit about it on my blog: http://www.thehogring.com/2011/03/20/the-problem-with-diy-auto-upholstery/
But I'm interested in what you all think. Am I taking this a bit too personal or do I have some merit here?
Frankly you sound like a bit of a snob to me, you work in a trade not a craft and you may or may not be a tradesman but you are certainly not an artist.It is upholstery we do folks, not some esoteric mysterious art, good on someone if they want to have a go at home(I too get alot of fix up work).But make no mistake this is a good honest TRADE ....
One of my daughters loves to watch the DIY home shows on the weekends (when we usually visit.) One of them is where a pair of couples redecorates a room for each other with the help of a designer and carpentry crew, another is a quick rehab on a weekend sort of deal. Usually, there's some muscled guy or woman in the driveway working in a tent with a circular saw and a pneumatic nailer punching out some built ins, or someone who decides to paint some furniture with a brush or roller.
In the reveal, they never show a close up of the work. Most customers I know would not stand for this level or work by a professional, but seems to be OK since they did it themselves and 24 hours earlier, they didn't know which end of a hammer to hold.
QuoteFrankly you sound like a bit of a snob to me, you work in a trade not a craft and you may or may not be a tradesman but you are certainly not an artist.It is upholstery we do folks, not some esoteric mysterious art, good on someone if they want to have a go at home(I too get alot of fix up work).But make no mistake this is a good honest TRADE ....
Is upholstery a trade? Yes.
Is upholstery a craft? Absolutely.
Is upholstery art? No doubt in my mind.
I guess it all boils down to how you approach your work and your mind set. I figure whenever someone is working with colors, patterns, applying different styles and design elements and working with materials that sometimes have a mind of there own, its art. Some people can spend their whole life playing the piano, and others "PLAY THE PIANO" if you know what I mean.
Who ever said that art had to be esoteric, or mysterious? I have seen guys weld together a bunch of junk and wala art!
And whats so bad about being a snob anyway? I don't see how anyone can spend much time as an upholster and not become a "furniture snob" I wear it as a badge of distinction. ;D
Mike......Well thought out and well written. I could not have put together my thoughts any better than you!
When I had an active shop I always called my upholsterers, "my artists".........and the really good ones were.
There is a huge difference in being a class "A" upholsterer and a "rag stretcher". The difference might not show up in a recliner but let's do a Victorian sofa from a bare frame.....that can divide a wanna be from the real deal.
When ever I had time to do an antique, I always dated and signed my work. Why?.......because, I felt I left a little of who I am as a craftsman with the piece.
Does that make me a snob too? I think not. Steve
Quote from: mike802 on March 21, 2011, 11:33:18 am
QuoteFrankly you sound like a bit of a snob to me, you work in a trade not a craft and you may or may not be a tradesman but you are certainly not an artist.It is upholstery we do folks, not some esoteric mysterious art, good on someone if they want to have a go at home(I too get alot of fix up work).But make no mistake this is a good honest TRADE ....
Is upholstery a trade? Yes.
Is upholstery a craft? Absolutely.
Is upholstery art? No doubt in my mind.
I guess it all boils down to how you approach your work and your mind set. I figure whenever someone is working with colors, patterns, applying different styles and design elements and working with materials that sometimes have a mind of there own, its art. Some people can spend their whole life playing the piano, and others "PLAY THE PIANO" if you know what I mean.
Who ever said that art had to be esoteric, or mysterious? I have seen guys weld together a bunch of junk and wala art!
And whats so bad about being a snob anyway? I don't see how anyone can spend much time as an upholster and not become a "furniture snob" I wear it as a badge of distinction. ;D
BINGO! Upholstery is, in fact, a trade... a craft... and a form of art.
I was talking to a guy who owns a flooring company. He said the big box companies like Home Depot and Lowes have 40% of the flooring business. There's a lot of DYIing going on, especially in the flooring business.
I don't like people who collect some facts, or "Trade Secrets" as they call them, and then put them together in an ebook or video and try to sell it to unsuspecting folks. We've had a few of them on this site. I remember one who asked outright what trade secrets upholsterers have.
No one will ever get past the learning curve by reading a book or watching a video.
Jimi Hendricks, B.B. King, and Glen Beck were/are not just guitar players.
Yo Yo Ma does not just play the cello.
Frederic Chopin and Vladimir Horowitz were not just piano players.
There are upholsterers who are trade persons, craft persons, and artists. A few are all three.
We know that Michelangelo was gay because if he was straight the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel would have been painted off white. (This has nothing to do with this topic but I just heard a comedian say this and I thought it was funny.)
gene
Quote from: gene on March 21, 2011, 05:38:31 pm
No one will ever get past the learning curve by reading a book or watching a video.
How true!! Especially in this biz. Much like the people that are looking for a "Miracle in a bottle", many think that there just HAS to be a textbook, or video somewhere that will make it all crystal clear.
Ever pick up one of those "For Dummies" books? Car Repair For Dummies, Income Tax For Dummies, Diabetes For Dummies, and so on. Apparently, I need a "Dummies Books For Dummies", 'cause those books are @!!##@ hard!!
My wife is an excellent sewer! She does things with a sewing machine that I couldn't dream of... That said, she's tried doing what you guys do, and it didn't turn out well.
DIY is DIY. You get what you pay for.
Upholstery fabrics, vinyls and leather is harder to work with than it would seem.
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Who really wants the dirt-cheap customers anyways?
I realize this is my first post but since I just found this forum yesterday and found this thread today I think its ok.
I'm a DIY'er, on many things, but I'm a professional Graphic Designer. How many of you running shops paid a REAL Graphic Designer to design your logo, or your marketing materials, or you signage, or help with the naming of your business, or your business cards? Or did you just say to yourself, "I'm a creative (or an Artist by way of your upholstery), and thus I should be able to do my own logo." The fact is that most people have no idea what a "logo" actually is let alone what it actually takes to truly DESIGN one. I can't tell you how many times I have seen someone with a general contractor business or handyman business or whatever where they have an elk head as part of their logo simply because they are hunters. It has nothing to do with the business but since they are hunters they put it in there.
The point I'm making is that before you get to bend out of shape over this 'problem' of DIY'ers you should consider whether you treat other professions the same way. I know this is an upholstery forum so its a fine place to vent to other pro's but my point still stands. Now, if someone is trying to pass off shoddy work as professional then we are talking about a different story all together and one that hurts all professionals everywhere regardless of profession.
My main professor in college use to say that as designers we "aren't cake decorators" and also that "design is not a veneer", I think the same applies here. If you are a true professional and you are passionate about what you do, and are knowledgeable about it, then you DESIGN a project and not just make it PRETTY.
To the person that called upholstery just a 'trade' and not a 'art', you are both right and wrong. Just like in every profession there are people that are truly artist at what they do and take their projects to higher level and those that just do the job. Those that take it to a different level are artist but those that don't and just maintain the status quo are nothing more than tradesmen.
Just my two cents.
-Panelrodder
first of all I do admire a person who wants to try and tackle a project for him/herself, I admire even more a person who admits they're in over their head and seek out a professional. With that said, many DIYers have no idea what's involved in a project and the time the professional has invested in learning the trade.
It's been said to be a "master" of a subject at least 10,000 hrs have been invested in hands on work. I do resent when customers come in that has a "limited" knowledge of the trade I practice and begin to tell me that job should be easy, not take too long, or tell me upfront what the job should cost them.
I used to freely give advice to people who wanted to learn, I had one guy who would ask me advice years ago on custom painting and I was more than glad to help. I found out later he was starting to paint out of his home garage and was bad mouthing me to people.
I agree that there seem to be too many self training programs out there on any subject, DIY shows have been blamed here too, but what gets me are these shows on TV that shows Cars being built in a week or two. I saw one once where the particular car was being readied for a major show and was just lacking interior. The shop that took it on knocked out a full on custom leather interior in just shy of two days (at least the editing dept made it look that way) people see that too and expect us to wave our non-existent magic wands to work miracles.
Kyle
I got a bit of stick from the Old guys at my trade association for revealing a few tricks of the trade in my book (not that many but enough of the guys i grew up respecting to care what they said, including the guy who taught the guy who taught the guy who gave me my first break, kind of my Uphol. Great Grandmaster lol.) but i still hold by the fact that the problem with good upholstery is - it doesn't sing or dance it just does the job its supposed to do -, so how will the public ever get to know how blooming hard it can be to do a clean job? If a DIYer picks up a book or vid or anything like that and has a go and finds out how tough it is then they at least develop some sense of respect for those who can do a good job. One review i read from someone who bought the book said it wasn't as easy as the title suggested - on balance i'm not as upset by that as my publisher probably wishes.
The T.V stuff is usually misleading and often endorses the impression that upholstery is a last minute thing and a good suite can be done in a couple of days..... utter B/s. the tv companies think they are doing you a favour too and tend to offer peanuts for input...or is that just the BBC?
So what we want is an informed public that will defer to the experience they are paying you for, who has deep limitless pockets and is as loyal as a hound.... If anyone knows them can they please forward their address. :D
Good points, panelrodder! Before we upholsterers condemn upholstery DIY'ers, we should bear in mind that WE are DIY'ers at SOMETHING ourselves. Great example with the elk head logo.
We also get peeved at customers that are ONLY looking for the cheapest price, and are willing to settle for lesser quality in an effort to get it. Yet we do the same thing when we go shopping (my shop has more than it's share of Harbor Freight crap).
I'd like to think that I'm patient with DIY'ers. I try to help them (to a point), and more often than not, I end up finishing the job when they give up on it.