Sorry if I'm digging up a dead horse here but I am at witts end. The last few covers that I have done by making plastic paterns first have turned out pretty decent so for some reason I decided to use the old blank method on a morring cover this week. I new the owner was picky so I worked extra hard to get all the wrinkles out by making apparently too many darts and have wound up with a cover thats too narrow and too short!
I now have a couple of days pluss $$ invested in a piece of crap that I will use to cover my wood pile >:( I am ordering more materials to fabricate another cover and I will patern in plastic first. Has anyone else done such a boneheaded thing?
When I said that I patterned with a blank I didn't meen to use thenold cover as a pattern.
I'd take a vls k of new canvas I snap the. Center ans pin the rest of the cs vas using quickfit pins.
As far as fixing the mess I've een able to add a seam or two a d save most o. The material.
using a blanket can give a nicer looking cover vs using plastic first which can result in
less waste .
don't worry about making a dog we all do it , i've got to re-make a cover on a 30 footer
because i tried to do it in the cold and it didn't work out.
Like Mike says snap it on the fore/aft center and get some quick fit pins
once it is pinned on it's almost impossible to make a cover that it too small
unless you really mess up the darts.
I put long darts in first using a P3 hand stapler then the small darts
if putting a dart along the top of a curved screen use T pins instead
'mark where you need to sew and sew where you mark'
over sewing darts will shrink your cover so aim for accuracy.
if you need to transfer the dart marks to the other side of the fabric
get some dressmakers tracing paper and a tracing wheel it works like
carbon paper on fabric.
Rich
I used the blanket (new material) with quick fit pins, I think where I messed up is I marked all the darts with chalk but did not staple the darts first plus some over sewing too.
Rich if I'm making a cockpit cover on a boat with a curved screen / windshield I don't put darts on the glass area you can I'm I'm not waiting it wrong. What I do is have a seam along the entire. Length of the top of the window frame so you've got 2 planes of canvas
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/covers/Copy3ofmoomba_cockpit.jpg
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Looks nice Mike. Funny , a friend has the same boat as mine 2 years newer. His factory canvas was done like mikes w/ seam along the windshield curve. Mine had darts on the windshield. Lots of ways to skin a cat !!!! I like Mikes way. I blanket , have patterned but prefer if I can just blanket it. After that its just binding and fastners.
Bone heads abound! No matter how you make a cover you have every opportunity to screw it up and only one way to do it right. S**t sucks. Best to eat the loss early and don't get caught up in the 'turning s**t into sugar' game. Cut up the screw up and use it in pieces somewhere else.
I do like Mike and cut a 'border' for the windshield. I also try to put all my darts into seams running side to side. I always make a pattern.
You know what they say! Second time's a charm! Good luck!
Ah, now here's where I disagree with Peppy. Very many screw ups (except for clear enclosures) can be saved and in some cases, actually enhance the design. Think outside the box. Next time I do one of those, I'll be sure to take pics.
Having said that, I have always made a pattern, never used a canvas blank for anything. Just my personal preference, not right nor wrong. Each to his/her own.
June
Quote from: JuneC on March 03, 2011, 05:46:56 pm
Ah, now here's where I disagree with Peppy. Very many screw ups (except for clear enclosures) can be saved and in some cases, actually enhance the design. Think outside the box. Next time I do one of those, I'll be sure to take pics.
Too right! Sorry to paint with too broad a brush. I heard "too short, and too narrow" To me that sounds like "add a piece here, take a nip there, stitch stitch, take a nip here add a piece there...ect...= hamburger". But then I don't pattern from blanks so I'm not that good at it. I would always rather 15 extra minutes on a pattern than 15 extra trips to the trim table.
Still your right. You should always make sure you couldn't, say, add a new run or two and use your foul up as a blank before you junk it. But after thought has been spent and it doesn't seem fixable don't be afraid to call it a sow's ear is the lesson I've learnt recently.
Yep, I already tried the add a little here and there to the point that the cover resembles a civil war iron clad! I have made some covers in the past using the blanket method but for me my best work has involved making a pattern so I will just stick to that for now until I grow up! ;D
I've done a cover and maybe goofed up on the side with a cut so rather then thrash it all I've cut the bad off added a seam and new fabric to fix it then I'll run a seam on the other side to match and fix my food up as long as the seam is far enough from the center seam it looked fine.
Mike's dead on. Cut away small patched up parts with too many seams, and make it symmetric. But, your cover may be already too far gone.
Without having seen pics of your disaster, I'd probably fix "too narrow" with a 5" wide stripe of complementary color fabric down the center. Too short, maybe cut off the rear 1/3 and add on a new section. But then, it's a judgment call. I've tossed things and started over more than once. It happens ::)
June
i think when he gets confident in his patterning method
he can then look at how to save mess ups.
Adding features to cover mistakes is an art in itself,
i'm getting more confident doing that the more canvas
I do.
from what he said he marked a dart and left it open
while he marked another dart, so he's taking up too much
slack.
that added to over stitching his dart marks will shorten the cover
by loads.
I always staple darts where I can , i mark the start and end
and thats it.
when i get it to the table i turn the fabric upsidedown and mark
where the staples are and a reference mark across the staple line
so it looks like each staple has a X over it.
pull the material apart and you have your dart marked with reference marks.
mike, I like that . its like you would do a dodger seam or a flybridge cover with a curved
spray screen.
Quote from: fragged8 on March 04, 2011, 09:44:17 am
I always staple darts where I can , i mark the start and end
and thats it.
when i get it to the table i turn the fabric upsidedown and mark
where the staples are and a reference mark across the staple line
so it looks like each staple has a X over it.
pull the material apart and you have your dart marked with reference marks.
I put my stapler back in my tool box! I like your method of marking the staples on the back side of the fabric. I guess I just got lucky in the past with just marking the darts.
Funny, I've been trying to decide wether to stay with my pattern material, or start going with blanks. Learned the blank method in Ohio, and must admit, much less time spent in the end.
I do a fair amount of over-the-windshield cockpit covers with bow covers as well. I will use double side adhesive tape along the whole snap line of both, as well as on the top of the windshield, and side glass. Then, I will mark the windshield frame from port to starboard, with one straight line at the top/upper most point of the frame. After that, I will add "tick marks" to the long line along the top of the windshield, and then on the pattern I will transfer these to the pattern material.
It "really" aids in fabrication, and the fit is unbeatable. But, with that said, the time consumed is what I am trying to eliminate, thus looking @ going with the blanks instead of the patterning material. I used to use the woven type pattern material from Trivantage, and now use 6 mil shrink wrap.
Fragged8- Does this seem to be something the transfer paper would work with? That is, if one were to put it in betwwen the pattern pieces and the double side adhesive tape?
Thanks Guys,
Great Topic!
Chris
Something you might want to try... If there are snap studs installed on the boat and you're using any type of plastic pattern material, make yourself a re-usable strip of snap tape. I put snap caps on several lengths of old double-fold binding every 10 inches or so. I have several 20' lengths. Pull your plastic over the snap studs, and snap the binding strip right over the plastic. The snap caps hold the plastic firmly in place, and leaves a deep impression that requires no marking at all.
June
Quote from: fragged8 on March 04, 2011, 09:44:17 am
mike, I like that . its like you would do a dodger seam or a flybridge cover with a curved
spray screen.
same idea most all cockpit cover now have curved widows and want toco er the glass
I like the old days top of the window was good and easy to do.
June,
I have actually tried that, and the problem I run into is when applying the strip of caps, they won't go over the plastic unless I "tap" it with a rawhide hammer.
Any pointers?
Thanks,
Chris
I've never had to use any tool. I use nickel/brass caps - softer "action" than SS on the snap strips.
June
My patterns are paper and I tape them to the boat, but I 'tap' out all the snaps with the back of my scissors so the paper lays flat on the boat. I'm not sure if plastic would do it too.
I keep a pile of snaps around too, for the same purpose as the snap strip. I cut them out of old tops I'm replacing and just use one at a time.
June ive always used 7 mil clear shrinkwap and do as you with the snap strip binding tape. i reciently been using the 6 mil opace plstoc called clear ive shown hee from home depot. will the snaps work with it? i belive you said you used that also. ive not tried snaps o it yet.
Mike,
Do you find a breeze makes it impossible to pattern outside??
I have a marine shop nearby that does pattern work in Florida, sends it to NJ and then back down to FL. Those guys have to be the best pattern makers ever.
have you tried double sided sticky tape in combination with
ouch damnit pins and snap tape and clamps ?
maybe not all at once but you get the idea.
Ed the wind can make it a real pain espicialy on large patterns
I'll tape my patterns with Shrinkwrap tape to the boat if it's blowing off clamps help also if it's windy.
If you start early in the morning it's generally not windy but the boat is wet so that's a pia. Also then as the sun come up a d it gets hotter the wind kicks up. The summer is the best ti
e of year. It not veery windy the winter it the windy season here in swfl.
Mike, the snap strips work fine with painter's film.
And yes, I hate March. It blows like snot for the entire month in these parts. No point in even trying to get any canvas work done. I never even realized how windy March was until I started canvas back in '05. Happy I have mostly upholstery in the queue.
June
March and April have to be my least favorite months. The promise of summer with the reality of winter. Around here that usually adds up to sleet. Wasn't a cloud in the sky today, nice sunny day after 2 days of rain/wet snow/sleet. Of course it was. It's Monday.
I like that shink wrap tape too. Strong stuff. Ever use 'Gorrila Tape'? Even stronger, but expensive. Worth it for a big and breezy job though.
I'd have to say those sewers in NJ would have to be pretty good too!
ive herard of gorilla glue but not tape.
ot was a nice day here in swfl my dog she was enjoying the afternoon weather
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2Fth_photo-89.jpg&hash=84771e7814bb6acdf85529b1b7b4515f) (http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/photo-89.jpg)
I always go over all areas to be taped w/double sided tape first with electrical tape. I then go over that with the double sided tape on top of it. I put this around whole perimeter of the snapline as well as the windshield and bow if needed.
Am I crazy? Is there a better way?
Chris
Stitchit I use blue painter tape first then the transfer tape the blue dosent leave a residue.
I agree with Mike, Stitchit. Blue painter's tape then double-sided seam tape over that to hold the plastic. And be careful what you stick to decals/stripes/boat names/etc. But I only use it where there's not some other method of attachment like snaps.
Oh, and lesson learned from blue painters tape - it'll turn vinyl blue so don't use it and leave it for more than a few days on any soft goods. Yes, folks, the color will leach right out of the tape and INTO the vinyl. There's no removing it. >:(
June
Rich I only leave it on maybe an hour when I making the pattern
Hmmmm. Intresting. Cheaper than electrical tape in cost I would assume.
i'll use painters tape if I have to but usually I can get away with
just the venture tape right on the frame etc.
often the weather isn't warm enough to melt the venture tape
and leave a gooey mess so i use painters tape only on hot days.
but i do use all of the methods, what ever works.
I also keep sand bags in the van with banner clips attached to them which can help
at times. the banner clips don't make holes in the fabric but the harder you pull
the tighter they get.
mostly used on big winter covers or mooring covers etc to stop the blanket
blowing up.
I use automotive masking tape, used to use inter-tape (quality stuff IMO) and now use Norton. Okay, very sticky but not very strong. And smells funny. It won't leave reside even after a day or two as long as it's not in the sun. Blue tape isn't sticky enough for my needs.
Quote from: Highvelocity on March 07, 2011, 02:07:28 pm
Mike,
Do you find a breeze makes it impossible to pattern outside??
I have a marine shop nearby that does pattern work in Florida, sends it to NJ and then back down to FL. Those guys have to be the best pattern makers ever.
Who's that , Costa . Gioia ?
i believe Gioia is in NJ high velocity are the paterns sent to you?
Finished the cover and the customer is happy. I have decide that I will continue to use both pattern and blanket methods depending on the situation, but with much more care to details. One other question here- When making a cover using a pattern, do you then make a large blank, lay the pattern on top and make the cuts, or as when using four or five pieces (seams going accross the boat) would you pattern each piece separately and then sew them together?
tim if i can i use a blank it save patternign plstic. many time if i can i will only attern one half of the boat. when i work my patterns on the table i mark it at 60" seam lines if your table and patterninlarge enough you could sew the pieces as you asked first then pattern the outline. this wold save problem of not having proper seam allowance and the cover being to short if you patterned each piece
this cover i ran trhe seam down the center and put a sam at the handrail for the side piece .
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2Fth_photo2-41.jpg&hash=a5b10bc0be4513fdfdda48c640894282) (http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/photo2-41.jpg)
this red cover i ran the seam side ti side in the top it used less fabric there was a seam at the gujnel and rubrail with the seam running lengthwise here.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2Fcovers%2Fth_100_1418.jpg&hash=63f571404510447bed2654f628ef66d8) (http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/covers/100_1418.jpg)
here is another example of the same method
[IMG]http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/covers/th_MVC-487S.jpg
(http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/covers/MVC-487S.jpg)
Mike, that was Casta with an "a" sorry... They are local to my house near Sweetwater NJ. Great outfit, they are doing very well, and they sell me items like, welt cord, hid'em...etc great people, I don't step on there toes so...
Goia Sails is in Lakewood NJ, in an industrial park. I delt with them for some time, Donnie has always been great to me. But like alot of people he has less on shelves these days and orders what he needs. His building is huge though, so WIND is not an issue if you can get the boat to him.
I work out of my home, so unless I can get the boat over its all about patterns.
Quote from: timtheboatguy on March 10, 2011, 07:48:45 am
when using four or five pieces (seams going accross the boat) would you pattern each piece separately and then sew them together?
Yes. If by that you mean- draw a line on the pattern where you want a seam, cut that line and lay it on the cloth, add a 1/2" and sew it together. Thats how we do it.
But like Mike says, if a center seam makes less waste we'll do that, but more often (almost always) we do side to side seams.
When doing a runabout with a skirt around the perimeter, do you pattern the skirt too or just measure, cut and stitch it?
I don't pattern that part. It's usually not very fitted (drawstring or trailer tie downs) so it doesn't have to be as precise as a snap-on cover. But, I frequently pattern just the bow and stern since that's where any variance in shape comes in. I like a cover to drop over and under the bow to keep it firmly in place while you pull the cover back over the rest of the boat. And again, under the swim platform if any, around swim ladders, outboards, etc.
June
I pattern the portion on the hull and where it fit under te bow I don't like my cover to gather and wrine up as you can see on the countians red cover I match the curveof the bow and hAve it fit the bow. Also