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General Upholstery Questions and Comments => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mike8560 on February 12, 2011, 07:20:06 pm

Title: Needle size
Post by: Mike8560 on February 12, 2011, 07:20:06 pm
I thought I saw a thread about needle sizes that link to this thread also
http://get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/index.php?topic=.msg55393#msg55393
can't find  it.  Any way  I
have to buy a box   Im down to  the last six. In all  22 years I  just about usd up  2 boxs    anyway I  got to get more. Probly
my last box. Anyway I've alway had Shmetz  needles size 19 the boxs say
nm 120 size 20   And so 135x17     Sy 3355.  DP17
never paid much to the size anyway I use theese with v92 thread
any input. Do you use this size?   I'm going to need w new box soon. Oh ya thenmachines are a singer 111w155 and a juke somthing  a copy of the singer
Title: Re: Neee size
Post by: BigJohn on February 12, 2011, 07:48:25 pm
Mike try this old post of mine:

http://get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/index.php?topic=6371.0

                              Big John
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: bobbin on February 13, 2011, 03:00:07 am
I believe that "variety is the spice of life".  I have everything from  a size 16 up to a size 22 for my 1541.  But for marine/awning work I nearly always use a size 18 or a 20 and #92 thread, occasionally #138.  I'm moving more in the direction of cushions/slipcovers and am now finding that I like the 16 and 18 needles in combination with #69 thread for those applications. 

On my 9010 I have sizes ranging from 12-18 because I use that machine for lighter duty work (alterations, drapery, light cushions) and run thread ranging from 33-69.

I try to select needle size based on the hole it will make and the its ability to carry the size thread I wish to use.  The guy from whom I purchased the 1541 is very accommodating and will sell me the individual packs of needles if I need something unusual, that way I don't end up forking over pork for a large quantity of something I don't use that often.   
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Gregg @ Keystone Sewing on February 13, 2011, 05:14:45 am
Quote from: bobbin on February 13, 2011, 03:00:07 am
I believe that "variety is the spice of life".  I have everything from  a size 16 up to a size 22 for my 1541.  But for marine/awning work I nearly always use a size 18 or a 20 and #92 thread, occasionally #138.  I'm moving more in the direction of cushions/slipcovers and am now finding that I like the 16 and 18 needles in combination with #69 thread for those applications. 

On my 9010 I have sizes ranging from 12-18 because I use that machine for lighter duty work (alterations, drapery, light cushions) and run thread ranging from 33-69.

I try to select needle size based on the hole it will make and the its ability to carry the size thread I wish to use.  The guy from whom I purchased the 1541 is very accommodating and will sell me the individual packs of needles if I need something unusual, that way I don't end up forking over pork for a large quantity of something I don't use that often.   


That's about the gist of it with needles.
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: fragged8 on February 13, 2011, 06:33:17 am
hiya

I have a range of needles, but have had a few leaking tops with even #16 needle and v92 thread ,
i must be doing something seriously wrong or the thread i'm buying is real rubbish.

I never go above #18 for canvas unless i have to go over a really thick seam
and for vinyl almost always #18 and v92 thread.

Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Mike8560 on February 13, 2011, 07:18:20 am
Rich sun Della used ro state on there website that any canvas will leak right after it's been sewn water willwick through the stitch hole yes smaller holes the better they stated it will stop as
dirt ugs the holes. 
I'd tell my customer this I don't think they believed me untill I gave them this printout.
It's not on the site anymore. 
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: JuneC on February 13, 2011, 07:50:59 am
Size 18 for vinyl, 20 for canvas.  For tenara clear (monofilament), I use size 18 because the thread is so fine.  16 would probably work better.  Otherwise, I use anti-wick thread to help the leaking seam issue.

June
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: fragged8 on February 13, 2011, 11:59:46 am
hiya

I know the theory that the thread holes will leak for a bit but i've had a couple that
just wouldn't stop. I'll have to keep an eye on this one and see if i can find the sunbrella info on this.

I wouldn't dare use a #20 needle like June on canvas but it's reassuring to know I use the same size as her on vinyl.

One top i made using tenara and a #16 needle never did stop leaking, it's a good job it was a friend
as the material was the SeaRay Toast sunbrella they rubbed a wax candle along the seam which
helped to stop it leaking, it would have shown up too much on a dark colour.
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Gregg @ Keystone Sewing on February 13, 2011, 03:48:53 pm
I'm really surprised to see people suffering from seam leakage, even with V92 thread and an 18 needle.  16 is crazy light needle for canvas, and hope people don't think this is the norm! 

I don't sell threads and materials, but I am thinking that some folks should be looking into self healing material where you know the seams are going to be suffering the most from water leakage.  This is a self healing material that would be sewn into the material.  Honestly, I don't know who sells or has it, but I am sure someone could contact a materials supplier. 
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: JuneC on February 13, 2011, 07:12:07 pm
Quote from: Gregg @ Keystone Sewing on February 13, 2011, 03:48:53 pm
I'm really surprised to see people suffering from seam leakage, even with V92 thread and an 18 needle.  16 is crazy light needle for canvas, and hope people don't think this is the norm! 


I agree, but I believe a #16 would be ok for 2 layers of canvas, maybe 3.  More than that and the needle is bound to start flexing and you'll end up with broken needles and/or skipped stitches.  Seamstick tape helps with leaking too.  It tends to seal around the thread. 

Rich, I like the wax idea.  Nice cheap alternative to liquid seam sealer.  I've done a few tops where I bought tent seam sealer in the sporting goods store to take care of leaks.  Luckily, it's rarely an issue.  Also, the tighter you make the top, the more it leaks (stress pulls the needle holes larger). 

June

June
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Grebo on February 14, 2011, 02:13:37 am
I use size #16 or #18 needle with V92 antiwick thread, only seem to get any leak issues with stamoid hardly ever with canvas and them it seems only if the canvas has been pulled bullet tight, in my opinion two tight & pulling open the holes ( as June just said )  ::)
#18 or #20 with v138.
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: bobbin on February 14, 2011, 02:43:17 am
We use a lot of the double stick seam sealing tape where I work, esp. on awnings/canopies.  And we use the wax trick a lot, too.   It doesn't stain the way Plastiseam can and it doesn't give off the noxious fumes of the latter, either. 

When I made the deck canopy for our home I had the blank heat welded together, but I used #138 thread and a size 20 needle to stitch the reinforcements and zipper casings that go around the frame in place. 
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Mojo on February 14, 2011, 04:11:18 am
I am curious. Does anyone use 138 thread ? It seems almost everyone uses the 92 on canvas.

Just wondering if there is a reason why is all.

Chris
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Gregg @ Keystone Sewing on February 14, 2011, 04:34:31 am
Quote from: Mojo on February 14, 2011, 04:11:18 am
I am curious. Does anyone use 138 thread ? It seems almost everyone uses the 92 on canvas.

Just wondering if there is a reason why is all.

Chris


Chris,

You just read two Uph. members right there who do, and yes 138 is popular, especially in Florida, where the heat and humidity kill thread faster than most climates.
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Mojo on February 14, 2011, 04:41:14 am
I use 138 on pretty much everything. The cost difference is minimal and I like the heavy thread because of the factors you stated.

I am still amazed though at how white thread degrades faster then black. It would seem it would be the other way around.

I know in the past when I have read posts a lot of the stitchers here use the 92 more then the 138. I get a warm fuzzy feeling using the 138 myself. I have never used anything bigger then that though. How does the bigger thread sew in our machines anyways ? :)

Chris
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Gregg @ Keystone Sewing on February 14, 2011, 06:23:04 am
138 will work perfectly with all modern walking foot canvas upholstery machines.  Just make sure to use a large enough needle that has a large enough needle eye.  Needle eyes get larger as the needle get thicker.

Another downside is that a 138 will wind out a bobbin about twice as fast as say a common upholstery size 69 thread.  Just one thing to note, especially with regular bobbin machines as opposed to oversize. 
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: seamsperfect on February 14, 2011, 07:11:33 am
Quote from: Mojo on February 14, 2011, 04:41:14 am
I use 138 on pretty much everything. The cost difference is minimal and I like the heavy thread because of the factors you stated.

I am still amazed though at how white thread degrades faster then black. It would seem it would be the other way around.

I know in the past when I have read posts a lot of the stitchers here use the 92 more then the 138. I get a warm fuzzy feeling using the 138 myself. I have never used anything bigger then that though. How does the bigger thread sew in our machines anyways ? :)

Chris

I use 138 occasionally 207 in my standard machine.  I use 346 or 415 on my seating surfaces, but I use a post machine.
Kevin
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Mojo on February 14, 2011, 07:35:53 am
415 ? Hell that isn't thread, that is rope......LOL.....

I have never sewn anything heavier then 138.

What do they use to sew nylon straps with such as tow straps, tie down straps, etc. ?

Chris
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: seamsperfect on February 14, 2011, 07:43:15 am
Quote from: Mojo on February 14, 2011, 07:35:53 am
415 ? Hell that isn't thread, that is rope......LOL.....

I have never sewn anything heavier then 138.

What do they use to sew nylon straps with such as tow straps, tie down straps, etc. ?

Chris

Pretty much I use it for  decorative top stitch like they used on older bimmer interiors.
I think they use 207 or 277 maybe?
Kevin
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Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Highvelocity on February 14, 2011, 08:07:42 am
I use a 21 for most marine related things, but I do use 138 thread for top and bobbin, so it fills the hole good.  I find when you are going through 4 plus layers of vinyl it's nice to have a beefy needle. 

A very reputable shop up here uses 138 top and 92 bottom.  Does anyone else subscribe to that thought process.????
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: seamsperfect on February 14, 2011, 08:10:56 am
Quote from: Highvelocity on February 14, 2011, 08:07:42 am

A very reputable shop up here uses 138 top and 92 bottom.  Does anyone else subscribe to that thought process.????

I used to when I did all my french seams with my single needle, I think it actually works better and your bobbin thread last longer.    I use 138/138 on my double needle machine.
Kevin
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Mojo on February 14, 2011, 08:57:35 am
I use 138 top and bottom.

Chris
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: seamsperfect on February 14, 2011, 09:33:06 am
Forgot to mention I use 135x16 #22 tri point leather needles for my 138 bonded thread.
Kevin
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: fragged8 on February 14, 2011, 12:56:37 pm
hiya

I know grebo was going to experiment with 138 top and 92 in the bobbin.

i had a go but found that you cant just turn the fabric over as the thread showing will be thinner
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: bobbin on February 14, 2011, 01:15:50 pm
the first awning/canvas shopped I worked in used 138  a lot of the time.  It does outlast 92, and that's a consideration when you're making a large canopy that will be put up and taken down once in a season.  You certainly don't want the thread to fail once you put the sucker up!  I always use 138 when I'm making awnings or a canopy for myself. 

I rarely mix the different thread weights  but that's more because  the machinery in the shop is used by other people frequently and not everyone is wise to running a stitching sample and checking for tension adjustments.  But I see benefit in the technique if you are topstitching and/or willing to check tension adjustments whenever you sit in front of a machine. 

Mojo, I have noticed exactly the opposite... black thread degrade a lot faster! by the end of season number one it's usually begun to "go grey".   Interesting, must have something to do with the brand, huh?
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: CKKC on February 14, 2011, 04:54:53 pm
I am so glad all of you have been discussing this subject!   I have been analyzing thread and needles for the last week and wasn't sure what size to use for my "cheap vinyl".   All I need
to know now is the difference between the different types of thread.   I don't know what to buy
for my indoor or outdoor projects!

Carol
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: bobbin on February 14, 2011, 05:10:19 pm
Carol, I have made the decision to use polyester thread exclusively.  Nylon doesn't hold up to UV (sunlight) and since I do a fair amount of outdoor cushion work I have no desire to check labels when looking for a good match. 

I have decided to make polyester #69 my "default setting".  I know it's plenty strong, I know it will deal with a reasonable amount of UV, and I know it won't have to bear a weight or wind load.  If I need a thread to do either of those two things I'll go for polyester #92 or 138.

Funnily enough, I'm facing the same dilemma when it comes to selecting a default weight for drapery work... thinking 46 and probably polyester.  I use the lightweight polyester for the cones on my overlock machine... think it may be 33, but am not sure without going over to look. 
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: CKKC on February 15, 2011, 08:04:26 am
Thanks bobbin,

I believe the thread that came with my machine is all for fabrics.  I wasn't sure if I could use it for the "cheap" vinyl I'm messing with.    Now I just need to find where to buy the polyester thread.

Carol
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: Mojo on February 15, 2011, 08:31:12 am
Contact Miami Mike. He carries Poly as well as Solarfix and Sunguard. His prices are very good.

Phone>800.543.0448

Direct> 513-298-5519

Direct Fax>513-298-5519

E-mail> mweunski@miamicorp.com


Chris

Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: bobbin on February 15, 2011, 11:16:51 am
I have pretty good luck with The Thread Exchange, too.  www.thethreadexchange.com

They have an excellent section on the merits of different types of thread and an excellent discussion on sizes.  Sometimes the selection is a bit limited but they also stock smaller cones and that's nice if you're looking for an unusual color for a "one of" type of job. 
Title: Re: Needle size
Post by: CKKC on February 15, 2011, 02:45:18 pm
WOW,   thanks bobbin and Mojo!!    Talk about a fast response!
I'll check out both places.

Carol