I just finished a T-cushion for a channel back chair, 50's vintage probably. Curved back, double edge cording and traditional zipper in a solid weave.
This job required making a pattern as there wasn't one sufficiently accurate available from previous covering. Further, my technique; cording was cut on bias (preliminary analysis of fabric drove this idea), and cushion seaming was two step, cord to facings and then boxing attached, to finish up. New foam was cut and installed using the pattern initially made for the fabric facing. Lastly, during the process focus was on pattern and sewing accuracy. Measuring the boxing height anywhere would reveal the exactness of this effort.
That said, after working steady through this project, I noted it took almost 2 hrs, 1hr 55 minutes to be exact. That result got me to wondering if I was within the standard?
So, I thought it would be interesting to find out, let's do this:
Post your time, then I will compute the average and standard deviation. Also explain your technique because it might provide meaning of your time. There are no right or wrong answers, remember I am only trying to develop some kind of standard expectation. Being in business, time is always of essence, for example, I wish I could have done that job in one hour. ;)
Hopefully we won't get mired in discussion in the right or wrong way of doing things, just give your time, general description, and anything that you feel influences that time to take less or more.
Then, After input (more the better for a meaningful statistic), a standard can be computed. It could be a fun exercise.
As I said, my time: 2 hrs.
Doyle
2 hrs is a good time in my opinion for start to finish for the work involved. I'd probably be more like 2.5 - 3.. because I would be considering my choices of foam/dacron combos for a good half hour.. oh -- and the fabric plays a huge part as well.. some are a dream .. some bite.
So thats for.. making a pattern, choosing the cushion type, configuring the fill, building the fill, cutting and sewing muslin cover, cutting the fabric.. sewing the cover, installing the fill. And all the problems that crop up during the procedure.. Which hopefully were address during the test stitching of the fabric.. does it stretch too much.. does it slip?? is there a stripe match??
I'm tired now Doyle.. sheesh .. coffee break! ;)
Doyle, I document just about everything I do and certainly if it's for the first time with expectations of doing it again some time in the future.
You should not expect to do a T cushion from scratch in one hour. Two hours is much closer to the standard and so I'd say you were right where you should be with that one. The MFA standards manual has a section on cushions for boats which lists a rectangular cushion which would be used on many other applications and they say 1.5 hours for something like an 18"x36" cushion. I'm pretty sure I can beat that, but I think it's a good standard time. I will look over my times when I'm back at the shop next week and post what I have.
Now, when it comes to pricing, what to charge would depend on the hourly charge for any given shop. I know there are those who are still charging $25/HR for their work and that looks very good to a customer, but it's not real world 2010 pricing (mechanics (excuse me, auto technicians) are getting more like $85/HR nowadays, why shouldn't we?).
Rich
QuoteI'm tired now Doyle.. sheesh .. coffee break!
Thanks Cheryl, I hear ya! LOL
If I had spent the time on foam analysis and muslim inner cover, hopefully I could have done that job in three hours. It would have pushed me.
Given the amount of feedback provides a reliable sample size, I will temporize the data with these step variances to give a meaningful T-cushion time standard. Muslim liners, for me do take time to yield an accurate cover. Too, as you say, the fabric characteristics and pattern are another factor to adjust in the data. I will try my best to keep the statistic based on apples to apples. ;)
QuoteYou should not expect to do a T cushion from scratch in one hour. Two hours is much closer to the standard and so I'd say you were right where you should be with that one.
Rich, I suppose what drives my wish to be able to perform that task in much less time is our business profits are directly related to our production. The market for this type of work has the fat trimmed out, therefore to keep the bottom line decent, I feel it needs to be done in an hour or maybe hour and a half. As Cheryl has commented, it is a doubtful achievement. Was this my first cushion, far from it, so going forward with the same equipment, it is very doubtful that there are higher efficiencies to to be expected.
Realistically, at a shop rate of $50 an hour and given my efficiency, one has to really work at this to make it all come together in our current custom market. In round numbers, this cushion cost the customer close to $200 bucks. IMHO, there is no fat in this one.
What do you think the factory standard for this same work would be? I would suggest less than half hour. In that scenario, then they might have less than $75 in generating that same product, possibly slightly less. Of course, by the time it goes through a retail step, it might be higher delivered to the consumer.
If there is much integrity to my comparative analysis, it is no wonder custom upholstery merely can't compete.
I would find your data interesting, hope you can find it.
Thanks, more input to the T-cushion is encouraged.
Doyle
Doyle,
my wife does all the books etc. and she has a background in cost accounting. she constantly analyses how long it takes me to do each piece. She keeps good records and we have seen that the time varies from piece to piece. But on the average a T cushion with new foam takes almost two hours.
What influences the taking of more or less time:
Matching the fabric on the front of the cushion. I match it perfectly. I have seen other's who obviously took a lot less time. No matching is quicker than having to match the pattern.
Type of fabric: Big time stretchiness, and/or loose weave takes more time than a microfiber, for example. Vinyl takes more time than a nice, tight weave, made for upholstery, fabric.
If the fabric is really, really streatchy, I will put a zipper pocket on both sides. This gives me some wiggle room when sewing on the top panel.
One stitch for the top panel, welt cord, and boxing, instead of two. I try to do one stitch but sometimes the fabric, or the pattern match, requires me to sew the welt cord onto the panel, then sew on the boxing.
Making a new pattern takes only 2 or 3 minutes. I trace the pattern onto the fabric and then onto the new foam.
I always put poly batting over foam.
I insert the foam with silk film.
A narrow top ends of the T takes more time than nice, big fat top ends of the T.
If I cut my welt cord Vertical or Horizontal, instead of on the bias, this takes less time, because I cut it as I am cutting out the other furniture pieces or at the beginning.
I serge all my welt cord. This gives me a perfect 1/2' lip. I don't need to do this. I do not do it with vinyl or leather. It is how I was taught and I just like doing it. This is an extra step that takes more time than not doing it.
Zipper: if I have a 4" boxing and I want a zipper that is 30" long, I cut out two strips of fabric that are 4" x 30". I then, usually, iron them in half. When I sew my zipper together, the zipper is now 4" wide. This is faster for me because I cut the zipper fabric the same size as the boxing fabric and I do not need to measure the zipper to make sure it is 4".
I use nylon zippers and mono thread so I do not need to sew a piece of fabric over the zipper ends to keep the metal zipper teeth from cutting the thread.
When I started I spent 6 hours on a T cushion once. I was teaching myself and there are so many variable involved. This is why folks talk about a 10 year apprenticship for upholstery.
Today my goal is to do T cushions in 2 hours max.
gene
Doyle,
This is what I have from the Marine fabricator's manual;
(all measurements in feet)
SIZE HRS.
2x2 1.5
2x4 1.5
2x6 2
Options
Welt adds .5 hr
Piping for small to lg cushions adds .25-.5 hr.
Add 25% for fabrics that req. pattern match
Add patterning time
Add .5-1 hr. if cutting new foam
I thought welt and piping were used interchangeably, so I don't know why there is a separate listing for each of them. These are for the type of cushions you'd find on a boat, which means most often they'd be in vinyl, no dacron wrap, no muslin cover
and no T-cushions.
As far as factory times go, I don't see any comparison whatsoever since a factory is using techniques that only lend themselves to mass production and they are cutting multiple pcs. from the same fabric design and color. The economies of scale enable the times to be much lower.
I have always felt that the type of work we, as a custom shop do is better compared to the prototyping operation a factory might engage in when coming out with a new product. I'm sure many hours go into the developement of a new style and if that's as far as it went (one piece of furniture) they'd go out of business after the first piece at the prices they are forced to sell at. Since we are essentially offering something close to a prototype, we must charge as much as we possibly can while employing as many labor saving practices as possible, all the while realizing that we put ourselves at a distinct disadvantage if we try to compare our offering to that of a factory and mass merchandise retailer. It can't work, rather we have to stress those qualities that are characteristic of a small operation; customization to customer's taste, wide selection of fabrics, ability to utilize a customer's existing, high quality frame, etc. and market these qualities to customers who value this type of service.
Rich
Sorry, I need to interject,
Quote from: Rich on November 29, 2010, 06:17:46 am
Add .5-1 hr. if cutting new foam
HA! Thats one fancy piece of foam!
Quote
I have always felt that the type of work we, as a custom shop do is better compared to the prototyping operation a factory might engage in when coming out with a new product. I'm sure many hours go into the developement of a new style and if that's as far as it went (one piece of furniture) they'd go out of business after the first piece at the prices they are forced to sell at. Since we are essentially offering something close to a prototype, we must charge as much as we possibly can while employing as many labor saving practices as possible, all the while realizing that we put ourselves at a distinct disadvantage if we try to compare our offering to that of a factory and mass merchandise retailer. It can't work, rather we have to stress those qualities that are characteristic of a small operation; customization to customer's taste, wide selection of fabrics, ability to utilize a customer's existing, high quality frame, etc. and market these qualities to customers who value this type of service.
Rich
Well said.
I don't necessarily agree with your comment on the time for new foam, Peppy.
I do a lot of interior work on yachts and I can tell you that cutting foam for a big V-berth takes a lot of time. Usually, I have to glue pcs. together, then cut it to the shape, and then go back and cut the bevel along the outboard edge. I can also tell you that many times the salon cushions for big sailboats are very intricate, requiring multiple bevelled edges to sit into the area behind the coaming neatly and smoothly.
I can cruise right along on cushions and depending on the complexity of them (bevelling foam), cutouts, flaps for snaps, etc.. I am usually in the 2 1/2-3 hr. range. In the shop I am required to apply cording to the tops/bottoms, when I do my own work I insert the cording as I join the tops/bottoms and the boxing. I make my zipper boxing the same way Gene does.
To be fair bobbin, the manual also includes time standards for V-berth cushions and w/o looking, I'm sure they post a much higher time for those, but these would be square or rectangular cushions which take less time. I think their times are generous, but we can fall into traps at either end of the spectrum. If we quote our best times to the customer and something does come up to increase the times (Murphy's Law) we can kick ourselves for not building in a better margin, but if we quote a worst case scenario, the worst case might be the loss of a job as we all know :(.
Rich
Only takes me about 10 minutes to pattern and cut out foam for a rectangular cushion. What takes the time is going through the scrap heap first to see if something is the correct shape and size to use before cutting into a new sheet. To glue or not to glue. Are pieces to glue the same density. Can foam seams be placed where they won't be felt through the cover. etc.... If deciding on a new sheet, what's the best layout to reduce scrap. That process takes much longer for me than the actual cut out.
Quote from: bobbin on November 29, 2010, 11:46:48 am
I do a lot of interior work on yachts and I can tell you that cutting foam for a big V-berth takes a lot of time.
I do too, but come on. An hour is a long time. My last Unit took an hour to make a simple bench cushion with batting and that is why he's not my current Unit.
Quote from: JuneC on November 29, 2010, 03:40:06 pm
What takes the time is going through the scrap heap first to see if something is the correct shape and size to use before cutting into a new sheet. To glue or not to glue. Are pieces to glue the same density. Can foam seams be placed where they won't be felt through the cover. etc....
I piece scrap foam together too, but I make it all ahead of time when there's enough scrap to do so. Since the scraps are already paid for I feel bad about charging the customer to piece it back together. He's getting stung on the foam and the labour for cutting his foam anyway, no need to ding him again for creating something out of nothing. Maybe I'm wrong and thats why I'm not rich. Whatev.
This pad of pieced together scrap start to finish/scraps to pad took a half hour.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2Fnot%2520boats%2Fth_PB050002.jpg&hash=02019818e040819bf59566e9ad94bd90) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/not%20boats/?action=view¤t=PB050002.jpg)
Thats 2 layers laminated, made of pieced sheets. That includes getting the ladder to get the foam down from the high shelf, finding the camera and taking the picture ect....
Sorry to be hijacking the thread like this. That marine standard thingy just makes me laugh.
We charge $50 labour (an hour at furniture rate) for a small cushion, T or not. The reigning philosophy being "What you loose on the apples you make up on the bananas." Another reason I'm not rich probably.
To make a T cushion from scratch about 2 hours is what I would figure.
1.5 hours to make the cover and to cut out foam and wrap dacron and put in cover about 30 minutes.
Total about 2 hours. It might be more or less.
I don't think an hour is that long when you have to answer the telephone, speak with customers, work around other people in the shop, etc.. To that end, Peppy, I think it would be interesting to know if the marine standards are based on straight, uninterrupted time or are from the "real world" of a busy shop... say at peak season, lol.
Like you, June, I have to sort through accumulated scrap to find the likely candidates for gluing, and then piecing those pcs. so the glue joint are places in inoccuous places or away from cut lines. It does take a fair piece of time to do a complex salon layout properly so foam is not wasted unnecessarily.
Quote from: bobbin on November 30, 2010, 03:07:31 am
I don't think an hour is that long when you have to answer the telephone, speak with customers, work around other people in the shop, etc..
If its not the customer who's cushion it is on the phone, how could you dream of charging him for the call? If my plumber billed me for 1/2 an hour he spent on the phone asking the wife whats for dinner I'd be (rightly) furious. In my mind you can't bill the customer for delays that aren't his fault. I get paid to poo but not by the customer. Its part of my salary.
I would think that any standard labor/time chart would be based on un-interrupted time. Dealing with customers, as well as all of the other variables (fabric, foam, pattern, matching,etc.) will make it very difficult to come up with any useful data on a "T" cushion.
If the old cushion is good enough to provide a pattern for cutting the new one, and there's no pattern matching, I can do a "T" cushion in 1 hour. Others have kept me bogged down for nearly 4 hours.
QuoteOnly takes me about 10 minutes to pattern and cut out foam for a rectangular cushion. What takes the time is going through the scrap heap first to see if something is the correct shape and size to use before cutting into a new sheet. To glue or not to glue. Are pieces to glue the same density. Can foam seams be placed where they won't be felt through the cover. etc.... If deciding on a new sheet, what's the best layout to reduce scrap. That process takes much longer for me than the actual cut out.
Here is where I think it's important to know your cost of doing business. How do you compare the cost of (foam in this case) to the cost of your time? I fall into this trap myself-time spent scrounging for something "I know I've got somewhere and I hate to see it go to waste", when the cost of the item to be sold (cutting from a new sheet) is less than the time spent looking for a scrap. But, if you don't know the actual cost of your time, how do you make an accurate comparison? where do you draw the line?
QuoteI piece scrap foam together too, but I make it all ahead of time when there's enough scrap to do so. Since the scraps are already paid for I feel bad about charging the customer to piece it back together. He's getting stung on the foam and the labour for cutting his foam anyway, no need to ding him again for creating something out of nothing. Maybe I'm wrong and thats why I'm not rich. Whatev.
Did you actually charge the last customer for the scrap of foam that wasn't used on his job? If it's a worthwhile piece of foam and you have to spend time piecing it together, I would think it should all work out to the same or less than just cutting from a new sheet or why bother? One way or another, you have to get compensated for your outlay of materials plus a reasonable markup, or for your time. I don't think anyone gets rich in this business, but we sure can be our own worst enemies when it comes to getting what we deserve.
QuoteI think it would be interesting to know if the marine standards are based on straight, uninterrupted time or are from the "real world" of a busy shop... say at peak season, lol.
Here's what the MFA manual says (they are using a boat top as an example):
Totals include the time it takes to complete each of the following tasks;
Give the estimate
Design the product
Order the materials*
Receive and pay for the materials*
bend the frame
Mount and fit the top
Cut the top out
Sew the top up
Install the top
Bill and collect the money*.
*Personally, I think these items should be built into the hourly labor rate since we often will order several customer's fabrics at the same time and it's understood that we have to spend some time collecting the money on every job we do anyway.
QuoteIf its not the customer who's cushion it is on the phone, how could you dream of charging him for the call? If my plumber billed me for 1/2 an hour he spent on the phone asking the wife whats for dinner I'd be (rightly) furious. In my mind you can't bill the customer for delays that aren't his fault. I get paid to poo but not by the customer. Its part of my salary.
Peppy, I agree that you shouldn't inflate the hours to take in time spent on the phone, running out for supplies, showing another customer fabric samples etc, but your hourly labor rate has to be built around all those contingencies so that in the end, they were covered. That's why I mentioned earlier that auto repair shops are charging $85.00 plus for their work. They are covering ALL the profit drains that every business contends with on a daily basis.
Rich
QuoteI can do a "T" cushion in 1 hour. Others have kept me bogged down for nearly 4 hours.
Interesting numbers: Are you saying a T is one hour and other cushions are 4 hours? Or is that merely a range for the T?
Please indicate what you are literally doing, such as type of materials, pattern, zipper technique, is cording included if so what steps are used to cut and to sew it into the cover and any other variances or tips you can provide?
Also, on the low number, 1 hour, are you replacing the foam? Or using what was removed?
Not a major factor but the shape of the T, around the rear can influence time.
Like I said, the idea here is not who is doing it best or who is right or wrong. We are just gaining insight into techniques used and how long.
There are techniques in sewing that can save considerable time such as self welting, I have never gone deep enough to master that one with efficiency, can do but it takes me too much time and there is not much value in that; application is beneficial mostly in repair work only, my shop. We do not have a duplicate of the equipment factories use. nor the volume to justify the same equipment.
About phone time and perhaps some of the other duties, every major company I call pays a salary for someone to take calls. The person manning these duties do not work for free.
Smaller shops, like most here have, this factor has to be included in your hourly rate. It shouldn't be a big factor because the volume should not be near equal to an auto dealership for example. On the other side of the scale for this subject, we continue to answer phone and provide customer support during lunch. But, to stay in business, at the end of the day bills have to be paid, so this activity has to managed smartly and considered as a business expense. Nothing is free, for long.
Continuing with this thread, we are getting some numbers and an understanding of techniques used, let's continue in that path with the furniture T cushion. If you give data for a different cushion, please clarify and give details, not all cushions are the same issue. Marine work and auto work is an upholstery skill along with furniture, but not all types are equal to each other.
Rich: As you know, I do marine, auto, as well as furniture and I find the marine labor numbers you present a helpful guide. That is what they are a guide, as well as any other number. A deeper discussion, statistical, could be persued, maybe later.
Also: Piping - is the plastic insert in an automotive seam, as one example. It is not actually fabricated in the custom shop instead is a product of an extrusion process. It isn't used nearly as much today compared to 40 years ago, in auto work. Cording, I think we all pretty well know, is made in the small shop by adding a cord like filler, and welt is a term that actually was spun out of shoe making, where it is the welt between the sole and the shoe.
Of course, over the years, these terms have been used in a very loose manner. This subject can get much more attention when the garment industry and actually some others are included. Not the focus here, just thought I would answer your inquisition, Rich.
I was hoping someone would come along with experience in a factory setting, with respect to the T-Cushion issue. That would likely be informative of equipments used.
Thanks and continue,
Doye
Additional input
QuoteI was hoping someone would come along with experience in a factory setting, with respect to the T-Cushion issue. That would likely be informative of equipments used.
Doyle,
my wife worked in a factory sewing cushions before we started our business.
The welts weren't cut separately they were made into the border on a border machine. One person just closed cushions all day, while another made the zipper and border to give to the border machine operator. another person stuffed the cushion. All the foam was precut and made at another factory.
Other high end factories did cut welts on the bias could NOT use the border machine and consequently it took longer.
So- a factory setting is usually much different than the custom work we do since they have a production line that may involve as many as 5 people to do one cushion.
Hope this answers your question.
Doyle,
I looked up my own figures for cushions and didn't find one T cushion. I did find a few cushions that had the T extension on one side only (two or three set of cushions for a sofa) so I adjusted to get a time that would be close.
TIMES
One cushion=1.6 HR
More than one= 1.3 HR ea. (identical to first)
Add for foam= .4 HR ea.
Wrap w/ dacron= .25 ea.
MEASUREMENTS
Work from space cushion will occupy
Foam= 3/4" larger than space up to 20"
1" larger than space up to 30"
Face=Same size as space
Boxing= Same width as foam thickness
SEWING METHOD
Lay boxing on top of face, add pre-sewn piping in at same time
Flip for other side, again with boxing on top of other face.
Rich
Since the cushion is but ONE part of the overall job, I think it's difficult to log time for just the cushion only. Take the welt, for instance. I normally cut the welt for the entire chair (cushion included) all at once. So how can I log the time for cutting just the cushion welt?
If you were going to collect worktime statistics for preparing Veal Parmigiana at an Italian restaurant, would you factor ALL of the time it took to acquire, and cook each ingredient? Or just the time it took to put them all together?
Rich cited the Marine fab manual, that listed time for each and every step, which would be fine if the cushion weren't part of a bigger picture.
Also, pattern matching sometimes has to be done in conjunction with the rest of the frame (this is where I was talking about getting bogged down for nearly 4 hours).
Cheryl is very selective about the foam she'll use. Gene serges his welt. Bobbin and June are meticulous about cutting and gluing the foam. We all do things a little differently.
Kody - Thanks for the insights of factory cushion way of doing business. They are very efficient, to put is mildly. I can visualize them cranking a good number out per shift. Wish I could do that.
Rich - Your data is consistent and from my experience very realistic. I noted the foam size to space up to twenty inches and for up to thirty inches. Good reinforcement for something I usually do intuitively. Your sewing method is essentially two passes, counting presewn cord as one. That is equal to my method, however I attach the welt to a face as the first pass. Your two pass method is more efficient than mine, I used to do it your method.
Sofa Doc - Thanks for your input. Channel backs usually only have single welt in the T-Cushion. Double welt or gimp is used else where. We get a lot of jobs where the cushions are the only work involved in the piece, for example all show wood frames and the T is a common bottom, some even have a T backrest cushion for the chair and the sofa is a variant, as Rich's data was initially based on.
Regarding collecting time expenditures, it is valuable to some and perhaps not to others. As a point of interest, one of my customers at UPS is a terminal manager and he explains that their corporation collects finite statistics on every thing and they benefit greatly from it. For example, a loaded truck will leave the terminal and complete the route, if possible, by only making right hand turns. It saves them time and gas, for they spend less time stopped in the idle mode. They are relentless in their search for more efficient ways of doing business.
Thanks all,
Doyle
Doyle,
I don't remember where I got that method from, but it was recommended to ensure a better fit. Since the top fabric tends to be stretched slightly, having the boxing on top both times helps to prevent bulkiness in that piece. I think adding the piping in the same pass also helps this, but you are right, it also saves time.
Rich
QuoteKody - Thanks for the insights of factory cushion way of doing business. They are very efficient, to put is mildly. I can visualize them cranking a good number out per shift. Wish I could do that.
It's been 20 years sense I worked in a factory. The line I worked on made 3 styles of furniture. A six person crew would crank out 30 sofas a day. That's hard for even me to believe.
When you guys wrap with dacron do you glue it in place? I am very rarely called to add dacron to any of the cushions in a boat so am unfamiliar with the "quick way" to do it. Interestingly, most of the customers have objected to the "loft" the additon of batting adds to cushions; I prefer the look, personally.
On the few occasions when I've added it to cushions I've made for myself I have loosely whip stitched it closed and added a muslin cover over it and under the finished cushion.
Quote from: bobbin on December 01, 2010, 03:02:44 am
When you guys wrap with dacron do you glue it in place?
Depending on the situation, I either spray glue it, on staple it along the edges with an Arrow P-22 plier type stapler.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/772945635-p22-plier-type-stapler
I also use it for basting sometimes.
There are times when you want a flat look and times when you want a crown. It's up to the customer.
Anything that converts into a bed like a V-Berth or something like a window seat I leave flat.
When I'm working on furniture with a built up seat front, I like to add Dacron to the cushion so it'll cradle down on to the decking nice and snug. This helps the cushion stay in place and keeps it from sagging after time. There are times a customer wants a real high crown like you see in furniture stores these days. I'll add Dacron to the top and bottom of the foam and then wrap the whole thing with another layer of Dacron. Of course when I do this I'll adjust the casing to allow for all that padding.
I wouldn't apply the Dacron loosely. It'll move around and bunch up. Whip stitching for the occasional wrap is fine, especially if your adding a muslin liner.
If you ever get a big cushion job that needs lots of wrapping. Invest in some cans of spray glue. I also have the same stapler as sofadoc. Both methods save a ton of time.
Theirs an interesting discussion started by hdflame on Oct 26, 2010 about buying bulk glue and using a paint spray gun from Harbor Freight. Only $15. I'm going to check it out.
Quote from: kodydog on December 01, 2010, 07:45:16 pm
Theirs an interesting discussion started by hdflame on Oct 26, 2010 about buying bulk glue and using a paint spray gun from Harbor Freight. Only $15. I'm going to check it out.
It would seem to me that a paint spray gun would have to be cleaned after each use. I use the K-Grip sprayer (the one that looks like a mason jar with a nozzle on top). I only clean it once or twice a year.
QuoteI use the K-Grip sprayer (the one that looks like a mason jar with a nozzle on top). I only clean it once or twice a year.
I've seen those. Always wondered how they work. One thing for sure the spray cans are expensive.
Quote from: kodydog on December 01, 2010, 08:16:49 pm
QuoteI use the K-Grip sprayer (the one that looks like a mason jar with a nozzle on top). I only clean it once or twice a year.
I've seen those. Always wondered how they work. One thing for sure the spray cans are expensive.
They have a wide nozzle that doesn't clog easily. I use Camie 313B adhiesive in the 1 gal. cans. Also, I bought a case of mason jars at the grocery store. Instead of cleaning the jar, I just replace it. I only have to clean the nozzle occasionally.