Hello Everyone!
Well, I did a search already and found lots of really helpful information here on ideas for doing skirting for an RV or trailer.
I have a Customer who has given me a deposit to buy supplies, so I know he is serious. He wants to know how much for my labor and I'm just not sure how long the job will take, so need your help. Also, I have a few questions on supplies.
In my research here and also on the web, I found all kinds of info and decided on the following: 18 oz truck tarp (white) vinyl from Perfect fit, grommets for along the top of the hems, with screws to adhere the skirting to the trailer. Plastic zippers for the corners or for zipping panels together. v92 poly thread. I will probably sew tabs at the bottom hems about every 2 feet so stakes can be driven into the ground to hold the bottom hems down. Also, I'd probably sew in pockets at the bottom so they can have the option put sand filled pvc pipes in to weight down the panels.
The trailer is 30' long with tip outs. Customer wants to skirt all sides.
I plan to bump my expenses for materials up 30% and told Customer that already. Any ideas what to charge for labor on this? Would I be correct in estimating that it would take 2 days of sewing time? My Customer is going to provide the pattern with a thick plastic material. I have not a clue what to charge for my own labor.
So, I'd cut out the panels, do all the sewing, hems, zippers, whatever. And the Customer will help install the whole thing onto the trailer.
Thanks for you input.
Kind regards,
Sue
I don't think it's a good idea to tell the customer how much mark up you putting on materials, especially if you have to get the money off him before you can buy them. Also if the customer helps that an extra 30%.
I got into a number of these last winter. There was a natural gas pipeline being run through my country, and the workers moved in in droves. Lots of impromptu trailer parks, and in the dead of winter everyone's water pipes were freezing. I started getting calls from people wanting skirting. It worked, too. One guy was frozen solid, and within a day of putting up his skirting, he was thawed and flowing.
I used Tuff Stuff coated polyester material (very reasonable, got it from Miami Corp.). It's MUCH lighter than canvas, made to be outside year around (they cover tackle dummies with the stuff) and easy to sew. No zippers (they get clogged and freeze up in bad weather). I did individual panels connected together by Velcro. Reason being: you can put them up by yourself. The huge long runs that go all the way around a trailer are a pain to deal with on your own. Plus, the various accesses to under the camper makes it easier to use for storage, and running lines and sewers in and out.
To mount, i installed snap bases along the trimline around the camper. The installed snap heads to the skirting as I fitted. These people moved around a lot, as the job moved along, and they may have it up five or six times a season. I wanted to make sure they could do it quick and painless.
All of my pricing was based on teh coverage amount. Some of the trailers had mulitple popouts that needed fit. By the 6th or 7th one, I had da s ystem down adn could turn the panels out pretty quick. We did a total of 11 within two months. A very very specific niche market that I got a jump on. Average cost for each set was about $1,500 for material and labor, including installing on site for the customers.
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I do mine the same as Russ does and use Tuff Stuff as well.
I got real busy last year and I had a customer ask me about doing a skirt for the front of their 5 th wheel. I told him I couldn't get to it for 6 weeks or so and he wanted it done right away. So I told him to go to Camping World and get one. He did. :)
Camping world sells them for $ 165 and I cannot touch that price. I have seen them and they are OK. Most last a while but I still question the quality of the material. If they do fail it is normally in the zippers. I do not think they are as good as what a good upholsterer could make. One of the parks I do alot of work in has alot of them and the vast majority of them are Camping World specials.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/5th-wheel-storage-skirts/1824 (http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/5th-wheel-storage-skirts/1824)
I am not sure what your talking about doing along the top where it attaches to the trailer but the top piece should be snapped into place using stainless snaps. If your thinking of using grommets and then screwing that to the trailer I would reconsider that. The 92 thread would be fine as long as it is a Poly.
As a side note, I use all stainless hardware on RV's. The last thing you want is a customer calling you upset because the hardware you used bled rust onto his expensive RV. Some of the RV's I do work on can cost up to $ 500,000 or more. You do not screw around with equipment like that. You use the best hardware you can get. :)
I still cringe whenever I drill a hole to set a screw stud into one of those big expensive coaches. It is always a pucker moment for me. :)
Chris
Scotty, you are right about not sharing that info, but only reason I did is because the person I'm doing it for has a business (paints vehicles and airplanes) and can get the fabric himself. Normally, I do try to double my expenses and in this case, just a small mark-up. However, I still need to get something for my labor and skills. He does not sew at all, but tells me he is good at making patterns. So, it is not the usual way that I do things. Of course he wants to save money and I don't mind having him help me, as I think this is a two person job. Anyhow, thanks again for your thoughts, which I do agree with.
Quote from: scottymc on October 31, 2010, 11:49:46 pm
I don't think it's a good idea to tell the customer how much mark up you putting on materials, especially if you have to get the money off him before you can buy them. Also if the customer helps that an extra 30%.
Russ,
Great work! Thank you for your advice and for all the information that you have provided here, with pictures too! Your posts are among the ones I had found here and really helped me to feel that this was a job I can do! I'm used to working on big stuff, like airplane covers. However, I had never done any covers for RV or trailers. I appreciate the time that you took to answer my questions, very helpful information. I was glad to see that the price that you put down was right about what I was thinking would be fair. However, I'm getting "owner assist" and that is fine, but I have to work that into my final price.
Two questions:
1) Do you think I'm on target for about 2 days of sewing time and installation time, with the Customer assisting me?
2) What was the approximate length of the trailers that you had done?
Thanks again Russ!
Kind regards,
Sue
I still cringe whenever I drill a hole to set a screw stud into one of those big expensive coaches. It is always a pucker moment for me. :)
Chris
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Chris,
Thanks so much for your input here! I want you to know you really helped me with what you said about the hardware. I "cringe" at the idea of putting a hole into a vehicle too, so am leaning on the advice of those with experience. ;)
Thanks for the link to what Camping World is selling, I did find that and questioned the quality, so helpful info there as well! Also, I had seen some on Ebay that were selling in the 160-180 $ price range.
My Customer lives in his 5th wheel, so I know he wants a quality product that will withstand years of daily use and not something he will be disposing of after one year or one season.
By the way (Russ and Chris), any way you can post or send me some pics of what the snap bases should look like? I was thinking of just rolling the vinyl over at the top once or twice, but if I need a stiffer "something" to line it with, please let me know.
Oh yes, the info about using velcro instead of zippers is great too. I have some of that already in 1" and 2" widths.
Thank you so very much!
Sue
This is the stud I use and screw into the RV's. I typically use 5/8ths but because I know the construction of the vast majority of RV's I know where they tunnel wires under the skin and I know exactly where frame members are. I have never hit a wire yet. :)
I drill a tiny pilot hole first and then set the stud. I have used self tapping ones before but they tend to chi the paint and a piece of the fiberglass out. It is a pain in the ass to have to drill pilot holes but it limits my liability when working on an expensive rig.
Here is the Stud:
http://www.rochfordsupply.com/shop/Fasteners/Screw_Studs/Screw_Stud_Stainless_Steel/index.html (http://www.rochfordsupply.com/shop/Fasteners/Screw_Studs/Screw_Stud_Stainless_Steel/index.html)
You will need stainless sockets as well. Unfortunately your going to need a Hoover tool ( Press ) to set the snaps with in the material which looks like this:
http://www.rochfordsupply.com/shop/Upholstery_Tools/Snap_Fastener_Tools/Press-N-Snap_%28Aluminum%29_for_Installing_Fastener/index.html (http://www.rochfordsupply.com/shop/Upholstery_Tools/Snap_Fastener_Tools/Press-N-Snap_%28Aluminum%29_for_Installing_Fastener/index.html)
I have not found a cheaper place to buy this tool then from Rochford. Maybe others have lowered their price but when I bought mine they were the cheapest. I could not survive without this tool because I use it so often. If your going to be doing RV or marine work, invest in one of these.
I had some thick vinyl strap that I had around to use as an insert on the top piece. I then folded the material over this and double row stitched it. I placed the snaps between the rows of stitching and called it good.
The reason I mentioned the stainless snaps is because my customers would come uncorked if I screwed grommets into their RV. It would really detract from your job. Please understand I am not trying to be nasty here or pick on you but trying to be very helpful and honest which is what I expect from others here when I ask a question.
When someone invests money into a piece of property be it a house, plane, boat, motorcycle or RV they are very particular about having things done professionally. More so on higher end property such as RV's, planes and boats. That is why I do whatever it takes to give them a classy looking and professional job. if it costs me $ 25 dollars more, so be it. My entire reputation is built on knowing RV's and supplying a superior product. I cannot afford to damage that reputation.
I hope this helps. If you have any questions let me know. I am always glad to help out my fellow stitchers here on this forum. :)
I forgot to add, if you haven't worked with Miami Mike, give him a call. He is a member here under that name. He carries the Tuff Stuff fabric along with all the hardware you will need. Tell him you need an account opened up and he will set you up.
Best of luck and be sure to post photos when your done.
Chris
the lastr one i did i used a sim fabric like herd 80 i secured it witb. Common sense fastners and a sleeve at the bkttom so. the owner. Ould install a pipe for weight if needed i think i pemember getting about $600
anf i never yell mu customer what the material is
pa I tool no more I'm sure then
12 yards
My two cents on his Sue; I'd change the design totally. I'd appreciate Russ and Chris's opinion too as I've only done a few up here.
>I would use awning rail and Keder welt for "sleakness" and speed of install on deployment Instead of snaps etc. It's also a more "air tight " fit.
> Up here we leave the skirt at least a foot "too long" and use that as a sod cloth. That way you have maximum flexibility to follow the ground tightly and you can weigh it down with ? snow,rocks,personal kit, the annoying dude who snores if he's had a beer after supper,what ever?
> As much as Styrofoam is more moisture forgiving;I would use fiberglass bats.The flexibility makes more "user friendly", they will follow the lay of the land, and it cut's your job in half o fabricate. If moisture is a concern, see June's "how to's" about sealing with HH66.
Mojo, Thanks for the references, I picked up some stainless steel parts this morning that look just like the ones you show here with screws, so I'm on the right track! I do appreciate the "how to" on the drilling. I'm going to let my Customer do that part. He will also be the one to choose the parts he wants to use, but I have several options for him (all stainless steel) including the one that turns.
Funny, I bought the Hoover press tool you show here about (2) months ago! I got the extra dies to do the grommets for my banners, but it already came with the dies for doing the snaps. So I am good there! But I don't have the wall mount piece, that would be cool to have. Must get one of those too! I got mine from Perfect Fit. I need it for some of my sign work, and also for some aircraft cover stuff. My friend has a kick press and swears by it, but it is not portable like the Hoover tool is. She told me today that it was too bad I bought one already, as she had (2) of them she doesn't use! ::) But I'd have bought one of them from her, oh well!
The idea you give for reinforcing the top hem for the snaps sounds good to me!
Oh, my supply person told me the same thing you did about using the stainless snaps. He said people get pretty "picky" about that sort of thing. Great advice! I certainly don't want to hear about the vehicle getting damaged later because I didn't invest in the best materials for the job!
Your generosity in sharing this information is very much appreciated.
Oh, and about Miami Mike, yes he is very helpful! He was my first phone call early this morning. He is very helpful and is setting me up with an account.
Yes, I'll take photos and share those as well! Thank you again Chris.
Kind regards,
Sue
Mike, hope you are still taking it easy and feeling a lot better! ;)
Quite a range in price it looks like, but that is good to know. I'm sure that the size of the trailer would also determine price of course as it changes the amount of materials and also the time to do the job.
I'm really glad to have this forum to come to, very helpful information. Thanks so much for your help here!
Kind regards,
Sue
Darren,
Thanks! I must remember to put big enough pockets in the hems to allow a little hiding place those snoring drinkers! Haha!
I will study up on awning rail and Kedar welt, since I don't know those terms yet. Actually, my Customer did express some concern over the "air tightness" of it, so this is indeed something to consider for technique.
Darren, I don't understand the part about styrofoam vs. fiberglass batts, but maybe I'll find something on it by doing a search. Thanks too for the information on June's instructions for moisture sealing. I'll check that out too.
Thank you kindly,
Sue
>I would use awning rail and Keder welt for "sleakness" and speed of install on deployment Instead of snaps etc. It's also a more "air tight " fit.
I was also thinking keder, but we dont have many of those things over here and it isnt cold enough to warrant them, could you fit the rope track underneath?
Quotecould you fit the rope track underneath?
I hadn't thought of that. Capital suggestion.
QuoteDarren, I don't understand the part about styrofoam vs. fiberglass batts
If yu're dealing with extreme cold/wind ; you can sandwich insulation between two layers of fabric to keep even more heat in.
If yu're dealing with extreme cold/wind ; you can sandwich insulation between two layers of fabric to keep even more heat in.
[/quote]
Darren, Thank you for the explanation on this. In the climate I'm in (and Customer too) we have lots of rain. Not so much freezing, but some days cold enough to have some ice and snow (close to Seattle). I can give the Customer the options though, thank you for your thoughts on this.
I have put lots of batting into engine covers for aircraft. I thought you were speaking of insulation, but wanted to be sure.
Suz:
I am confused on the project. Are you skirting his entire 5th wheel or just the front around the over hang ?
The majority of people in my area that have the skirting do not worry about freezing pipes. It does freeze here in Florida, ( trust me I have experienced nearly every winter I have been down here ), but the runs of water lines in RV's are buried in insulation and in the floor assembly.
The pipes that are exposed run from the RV to the water source. This is where frozen pipes occur and many use insulation or pipe wrap to keep them from freezing up. Most current RV's have a utility bay where the outside source comes in and connects to the RV in addition to the 12 volt water pumps, sewer lines, etc. This utility bay is heated most times with a small ceramic heater.
Most RV'ers who have skirting have done it for 2 reasons 1.) To cut down on the cold wind blowing under the RV, like Russ did on his jobs. In my case, my jobs have been for 2.) providing them an area to close off and use for storage under the RV and hide from public view items they own. It is basically for the sole purpose of storage and aesthetics.
Just thought I would add this comment for you.
Chris
I would want to personally check the pattern he made before sewing it together...
(at least do only one small section and have him check it)
Standard is 70% to double price markup - 30% is waa-aay too low... does not cover your self for freight, fabric cuts, discards or mistakes...
I'd use webbing loops for your "tabs"
just my opinion...
I chose not to do rails for sliding panels in because of the slideouts and varying heights I was creating. The snaps were easier for the way I was doing the skirts. Also, again it's just a matter of hold up the panel and snap it in place. They were tugged tight and had very little airflow through it.
for the top where I mounted, I rolled the Tuff Stuff twice. That made three-layer thick 1" wide hem to put the snap heads through. More than strong enough.
If you look at the bottom of my skirts, you see an extra flap. Serves two purposes....when they owner parks on an incline or uneven surface, it gives extra length to compensate. When the trailer is closer to the ground, it is an extra layer for strength when sandbagging on it. I also put grommets on the bottom edge of the skirts to allow for stakes to be driven through into the ground. Most of the transient workers didn'tn do this, just put down weights. But someone parked for the season might want more permanency.
Chris, I'm skirting the entire 5th wheel. Turns out, it is 34 feet long with (2) tip outs that need covering as well.
We do get freezing pipes here, and I used to have a travel trailer and do recall the pipes freezing in it. So, I wrapped the pipes and hoses going to the trailer with heater tape and that solved the problem. I always wished to have a skirt on the trailer, but never did.
My Customer has expressed concern about the wind and cold getting under his trailer and losing the heat. Again, he lives in his trailer, says he pays quite a bit to keep it heated and he thinks it will help the situation. I think so too.
I did ask him the other day if he wanted the front of the trailer for storage underneath to determine if I should make a way for him to get in and out of it easily. Surprisingly, he said he does not plan to use the space underneath and said not to worry about that. Hmmm.
Thank you Chris for the ideas! Very helpful!
CanVas,
I like the webbing loops for tabs idea, that's great!
Thank you for your thoughts on the mark up price. Initially, I thought I should double the material cost, but I'm really giving him a huge break and he knows it. I plan to have him paint the bumper on my car later! He is a painter and does some very nice work. So that is another reason for the low mark up price. There are so many ways to figure pricing though, so I do appreciate your ideas here.
Yes, I think you are right in suggesting I should check his pattern. I told him I want to go and see the trailer and check his pattern against it. He wants to save money by cutting the time that I spend doing this, but since he does not sew, there is a strong probability that he would not make a pattern the way that I would make it. This is the first time I've worked with him on a project and although he is a great painter and masker, that is not the same as what we are going to do making covers.
Oh I should also mention that I have had the experience of somebody sending me their pattern (windshield cover for an airplane) and going by the pattern to make a cover only to find they had something wrong and guess who has to get it right? You!
Thank you again CanVas!
Stitcher Guy,
Thanks for the ideas, these are great! Looks like the flap idea is a winner, Customer decided he wants those. Cool idea just to put grommets in the flaps. Hmmm I like the idea of the webbing loops too, but grommets in the flaps would probably be easier.
I'm so glad you took photos of your work and shared them! You deserve a box of chocolates or a case or beer! ;)
Kind regards,
Sue