Anyone have a Bendarc and/or Crownarc they want to unload? I'm looking to buy a pole bending setup.
June
hiya
I use this June, it's very easy and works for 90% of everything i do.
http://www.canvastraining.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=503
Rich
I just use the conduit bender that electricians use to make my bends and then crown it by hand (well,by foot actually). I'm at home on the lap top and can't get at photobucket until I get back to Brandon but there should be a pic in some of my old posts. It takes up as much shop space as a broom and cost roughly $40 for the bender and another $10 for the piece of threaded pipe that is the handle.
I think somone posted one on eBay not long ago. I just set mine back up on my trailor today. It's worth the money if your going to be bending allot of tubing. It's real fast and easy on e you get the math down.
I'm talking abkut bendarc.
hiya
have you used the wooden one like mine before Mike ?
There isn't really any math to do, all you need is the beam between
mounts and the length of the side leg which is taken off the extendable pole
with the frame curve on it. thats all i need to make a full frame.
it does mean though that you can only make one curve radius
Rich
Every once in awhile rich I'm asked to replace a broken bow ant to match the existing frames curve I'll make a jig to match similar to yours You still have math though you need to know how long to cut the frame and allow for the radius curve and width loss due to your crown.I also use a adjustable bent tent pole to figure my numbers. And it's simple
[quote you need to know how long to cut the frame and allow for the radius curve and width loss due to your crown][/quote]
with my bender (dang I wish I could find that picture) it's automatic. Subtract 6" 'cause that's what the stub takes up, 2 5/8 to back of bend ,add 1" for the crown and make the mirror image at the other end. Foolproof.
We use a shop made plywood wheel. We have a formula (divide in 1/2, minus 9") that makes a bar finish what ever size your bend measurement is. Then crowning it brings it in 2" We usually measure the windshield of the boat and thats our bend. The 2" it comes in gives it a nice look. I crown bars by giving the bar a 'tweak' every 3". We use an 8"-ish radius wheel making a 9" radius on the outside curve of the bar.
Unlike you guys I make bend measurements from center instead of up the leg and make all my bars long. Having center of the bars is important to me. The bars are cut to size after being held up on the boat.
Interestingly, putting a 'schwang' crown (that is a crown perpendicular to the legs) on a bar does NOT cause it to 'suck in' those couple inches. Don't ask me why....
Quote from: Peppy on October 02, 2010, 05:13:11 pm
Unlike you guys I make bend measurements from center instead of up the leg and make all my bars long. Having center of the bars is important to me. The bars are cut to size after being held up on the boat.
Who say "us guys" don't use a center measurement? :P
When using a bendarc that is a most important measurement...
Quote from: Can_Vas on October 02, 2010, 05:17:57 pm
Quote from: Peppy on October 02, 2010, 05:13:11 pm
Unlike you guys I make bend measurements from center instead of up the leg and make all my bars long. Having center of the bars is important to me. The bars are cut to size after being held up on the boat.
Who say "us guys" don't use a center measurement? :P
When using a bendarc that is a most important measurement...
Exactly Howard! I goofed up last week bending though and set my center mark on my frame wrong on a faded measurement mark on my bender stick and had to insert a 6" sleave in the center and shorten one leg when i was done :-[
hiya
i've never thought of making a jig to re-create a different arc, good idea Mike
There have been jobs i've turned down because i couldn't match the orig frame.
how strong is a sleeve ? i cocked up a frame last week. I bent the wrong side
of the leg length line.
Rich
Do any of you guys using pipe benders ever have issues with the tubing collapsing? I've read that you need to fill the tube with sand and cap the ends to prevent collapse - but maybe that's just for really tight bends.
June
I wrinkled a couple of pieces of electrical conduit as a kid before dad taught me what I was doing wrong; but I've never seen boat tubing collapse.
Benders like mine have a foot pad ;If you apply more pressure with your foot than on the handle with your arms, you'll never have a problem ;)
Hey June
I use the BendArc and CrownArc, and purchased the software (easy frame 2) as well. The system (all three together) is great at taking the guess work out of bending a frame. My first frame (and all following) came out perfect and that was without any prior training.
http://get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/index.php?topic=4778.0
Found it ;D ;D ;D
June with the bendarc you will have no kinking of the tubing.
They work fine with the square tubes they indent the inner flat. Wall to allow for the shorter radius even.
Quote from: Can_Vas on October 02, 2010, 05:17:57 pm
Who say "us guys" don't use a center measurement? :P
When using a bendarc that is a most important measurement...
Sorry! I don't mean to lump everybody in the same pot. A billion ways to skin a boat after all. I guess I misunderstood. I thought you used the bend stick thing to figure out the length of the leg and then your formula worked out the rest. I saw a youtube demonstration doing it that way.
Every spring I bend several new frames for people who thought their convertible tops were winter covers. "I can't believe it couldn't hold up 1,000 pounds of snow!" I don't worry about the bends being much different. I do have a few wheels of different sizes but 95% of the time I use the 9" one. I try to be as close as I can but I don't freak out about it.
With my medieval ply wood wheel I can't bend anything smaller than 12" diameter. Even that starts to crush the tube a bit.
re:With my medieval ply wood wheel I can't bend anything smaller than 12" diameter.
Is that diameter or radius?
correctly, in engineering, design and most trades, diameter is only expressed when speaking of a complete circle. When portions of a circle are the matter of discusion, even if it is 359 degrees, radius is always used. Radius describes the size of an arc. Diameter describes the dimension across a CIRCLE. An 18" circular form generates a 9" arc. A 6" conduit bender generates a 6" arc. Respecting the conduit bender, it is evident to anyone who has seen one, that no complete circle is involved and hence, 6" obviously refers to the radius of the tool and the result. In speaking of a "form" it is not obvious if the form itself is a circle or a portion of a circle. If you are making 6" radius bends with a wood form you're doing pretty good. Do you have hardwood forms with the path shaped by a router?
Quote from: jeandeau on October 03, 2010, 11:40:38 pm
In speaking of a "form" it is not obvious if the form itself is a circle or a portion of a circle. If you are making 6" radius bends with a wood form you're doing pretty good. Do you have hardwood forms with the path shaped by a router?
When I said wheel I meant that it is a circle. I've never measured it but I'm pretty sure it has 360 degrees. When I said diameter I meant the diameter is 12", which would make the radius 6". When I said it was plywood I meant that it was made of plywood. When I said medieval I meant that it's old and not fancy or refined in anyway. There is no routed groove, although there is a groove made through use and bending the odd bar with snaps in it.
The 12" wheel doesn't do a perfect job and like I said it crushes the bar a bit.
:D Easy Peppy; don't get all un-Canadian now. :D
Seriously though; If you don't have a lathe at work you can just put a bolt through the centre and mount it in your drill press. Then just use a 1/2 round rasp or a piece of tubing with some course sandpaper spray glued to it to make a channel.
Take a look at that Princess Auto bender in my old post. If you bolted an idler wheel (again small groove) on a piece of angle iron, and then bolted the angle iron down with the wheel; You'd have a poor boys bend arc. Applying the force at the bend where it is trying to stretch will keep it from collapsing on the inside of the bend.
Yikes Darren, your right! I may get a visit from the Ontario Politeness Police! I'll be sorry then! I bristle when people get all engineer-y on me. A good portion of our customers are engineers and they're (for the most part) pompus jerks who can barely stand talking with someone as lowly as me. My favorite part about building a top for an engineer is throwing out his meticulously drawn sketch of how he wants his top to be and holding up the frame till it looks good.
Still, sorry to ruffle feathers. I'm sure there's a lot of wonderfully nice engineering types out there. I hope to meet some some day.
(As a side note: my last name is Genner. And aparently Genner is short for, you guessed it, enGenneer!)
Back on topic; my wheel is goodly grooved now and I have no problems with it. I guess its the poor-poor mans bendarc. As for the lever handle dooie if I need to bend short bars I just slide a scrap tube over the leg for added leverage.
Quoteif I need to bend short bars I just slide a scrap tube over the leg for added leverage.
I think the handle is more about where the force gets applied than how much of it.
June, talk to Jeff>>>> let him know weunski sent you. Not sure if he will cut you a deal or not but it's worth a try. Also I will keep an eye out for ya.
866 805 8005
How about this one. Looks like the one Rich has but woden and lass $ . I used it when I took the course but havn't bought one yet either. http://shop.marinecanvastraining.com/1bend-ritebender.aspx
hiya
y' its exactly the same but with the northcoast one you also get the frame tool which is invaluable
and also an additional dog leg former ,
you could make the frame tool but for the extra $30 or so is it worth it ?
Rich
Quote from: Miami Mike on October 06, 2010, 08:17:59 am
June, talk to Jeff>>>> let him know weunski sent you. Not sure if he will cut you a deal or not but it's worth a try. Also I will keep an eye out for ya.
866 805 8005
mike any deals on the blocks and rollers? Mine are prety old and started to flake apart.
Every spring I bend several new frames for people who thought their convertible tops were winter covers. "I can't believe it couldn't hold up 1,000 pounds of snow!"
[/quote]
peppey remeber thoose posey early 80s baylinrer cheesey window frames well I saw a guy one year who
left his cockpit cover on as a winter cover and the weight of the snow was too much for the frame and all the glass broke.
Question for folks like Scarab and Rich who use the bend-rite style of bender:
they advertise that you can also crown with them. How do you do that? and is there a second piece of wood not shown in the ads?
Right now Thor put mammoth skin on cave floor-- stand on tubing--- grab leg -- go UGH!!. Move back and repeat and repeat until Thor wish arms longer -- not so skinny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctY4hvK9eTQ
Here's a guy using it. At about 3:20 he crowns the bar.
Is that piece of wood really $200? Forget making boat tops, I'm going to start making benders!
Thanks Peppy. I always wondered how they did that. It is easier than what I've always done. I can't see me paying $180 for the recipe that comes with the $20 piece of wood I could build ,though.
That's what I was wondering. Is the shape really so complex that I can't reproduce it with a good 20" x 30" piece of wood? Seriously.... ??? I could even buy a new router bit for the pipe depression and still come out ahead. I'll have to watch the video. That block still needs something on the back side to hold the leg in place. What do you call that part anyway?
Mike, as I understand it, distributors for the "Arc" company have to sell at suggested retail - or maybe I've been fed a line. On the internet, the only company selling for less than list is that KingRichardCo website that sells everything but baby booties (and maybe they sell those as well). I haven't called them to see what the "real" price is - their T's and C's state that the web prices may not be current. Yeah, right...
BTW, your Jax facility continues to ship right on schedule. I only have to order and it shows up the next day via UPS by Ground. Kudos to the guys in the warehouse :D
June
QuoteThat block still needs something on the back side to hold the leg in place
Check the vid June. They have a 2X4 screwed to the table for that purpose. What I found cool with that set up was that you can use it as a vice to keep both leg's pointed the same direction ---unlike mammoth rug an UGH.
I'm no carpenter. If I was to try to copy that block of wood , it would take me all day. I tell my customers I'll close the shop for the day and work for them for 1500. $250 to me ain't bad for a tool I'll make a lot of money with and will most likely last me the life of my business.
I bought mine about 18 years ago and it's still going string June. The thing I like is it's easy and fast just clamp your pipe on the proper width mark and pu the arm. Spin it reclamp and bend agsinn. Thenover to the crowners and 5 cranks or so and your done bada bing bada boom
June- My wheel is no where near as fancy as that one. Plywood cut with a jig saw and sanded. It's bent thousands of bars. My brother's a carpenter and I'm sure for $100 he'd make you one you could eat dinner off. I'm sure it works, probably better than mine, but at $60 an hour shop rate I think I could make something comparable in 3 hours. And sheesh, the most important part (the brake) is the one part they don't give you! And instead of the teardrop shape, I just give a tug every 3". I have a line drawn on the table to tug to.
If your building one; subtract from your radius the width of your tube. IE- my 9" bends are made on a wheel with an actual diameter of about 15 1/2"ish. (Thats a 7 3/4"ish radius) Thats accounting for the thickness of the tube + a little bit cause you have to bend past the point your looking for for it to spring back to it's resting place.
>Darren- screw 2 blocks to a table an inch or two apart and give'r the 'custom kink'. Which used to be provided to dissasisfied customers with puddling tops with the bosses forehead while the customer went out for coffee. Hence why we build tops premade with the 'custom kink'
>Mike- The less Bayliner Capri's the better! I made a top on one a couple years ago, and it almost pulled the window off the boat!
Quote from: Mike8560 on October 07, 2010, 04:47:49 pm
I bought mine about 18 years ago and it's still going string June. The thing I like is it's easy and fast just clamp your pipe on the proper width mark and pu the arm. Spin it reclamp and bend agsinn. Thenover to the crowners and 5 cranks or so and your done bada bing bada boom
I must say Mike, it does sound good. And what Darren said about the force applied where it counts, my legs do get a slight bow from pulling them. If you grab the bar always in the same spot it's not the end of the world.
The bendarc is on my wish list. After another drill, more gromets, if you don't have a good foam saw get one of them, a good router would be nice......