I was wondering if on New Years, Christmas, 4th of July and a couple of others if you pay your employees for time off for these holidays. I always have, but am starting to re-think this.
Here in California they have come out with a new law that is starting in July that employers are require to give their employees 3 sick days.
From an employees point of view. Most people love paid holidays thinking what a nice perk, get paid while sitting at home. Personally I'd rather increase my per hour wages and here's why. If you add up all those paid holidays and even a week vacation then divide it by your total annual hours worked it really doesn't add up to much. But if you pay me an extra dollar and hour, and if I'm a good employee who always shows up for work and works 40 hrs a week the increase in pay is much higher. One place I used to work would take 14 days off between Christmas and New Years. Problem is they only paid for one week and only to full timers. This made Christmas difficult for some of the employees. I would have preferred working more and holidaying less.
3 days sick pay is the government getting involved in private business affairs and like minimum wage it never works. What the government doesn't seem to understand is the business is going to make a profit one way or another. They force you to pay more in one benefit which forces you to take away other benefits.
I don't see what 3 days sick leave has to do with paid holidays. No reason that you cannot have both. I worked for a feedlot and the owner there had an interesting approach to sick leave. We got 10 days, I believe it was. If, at the end of the calendar year you had any unused days you were paid for them. Probably half of the employees used all 10 days and went into leave without pay status. The rest of us tried hard to have days left to turn in at the end of the period.
I worked for a furniture store in KS. Probably the only one reasonably paid. The warehouse/delivery guys had absolutely no respect for the product. I always felt like there would have been less "accidents: that trashed furniture if the guys had been paid a reasonable wage. Perhaps not, I don't know.
Virginia
I guess what I am trying to figure out is, I have never worked for anyone else. I have always worked for my self. I am trying to get a prospective of the employee. Do employee get paid time off for holidays?
Some companies do and some don't. It's up to you to decide if you can afford it and are your employes worth it. Another thing to consider in these times of difficulty in finding good upholsterers, when a good upholsterer is deciding who to work for will the perk of paid holidays sway their decision?
But like kody pointed out. Any employer who gives paid holidays is just going to factor that into the hourly wage that they offer. I'd rather my boss just pay me the most per hour that he can. Then on holidays, I'll find my own way to make some extra money if I need to.
Similar topic...........We all think that the minimum wage should go way up. BUT.......what if that means that we pay 10 bucks for a Big Mac?
Many employers skirt requirements now by keeping their workers just under 40 hours so they don't have full-time status.
An interesting point doc, re minimum wage and the price of a Big Mac. Mickey D's had profits in the billions last year (record profits, I believe) so it is ludicrous for them to say that they have to raise the price of their gut bombs. There is a chain (can't remember the name right now) that pays $10.00 per hour and their food prices are actually slightly under McDonalds. If you look up greed in the dictionary, you will find McDonald's logo.
Virginia
Virginia:
I think you're talking about In-&-Out Burger. They pay 10 bucks to start.
And their prices are generally lower than Mickey D's. And IMO, they put out an infinitely better product. So yes you're right......IT CAN BE DONE.
But will most minimum wage employers do it? Probably not.
I have always believed that if you want good employees you have to be a good employer. If your people do not feel appreciated they will not do good work. At this point in time it is just me with family help as needed, but I have had up to 4 employees at times. If I had to hire today, I think I would offer different plans where the employee could choose the plan that best fits his, or her needs. They could choose between added pay pr hour vs paid time off. The last employee I had I started at 10.00 pr. hour, over minimum at the time. He was reliable and showed interest and talent, but decided to leave because he wanted insurance. I found him a plan, but he would have had to pay for it, so I offered him a raise to off set the cost, I lost him anyway.
Good point Mike. Benefits should be negotiated at the interview/bargaining table.
Scott, what will your employees say if you take away Holiday pay. Sure would piss me off if I was hired thinking that was part of the deal.
Of course if its to keep the business solvent you'll have to explain that. Then they will wonder how close are you to folding.
Quote from: sofadoc on February 12, 2015, 07:59:55 am
But will most minimum wage employers do it? Probably not.
So In-&-Out Burger pays more and puts out a better product. I assume there growing and hiring employees away from McDonalds and other burger joints. Choosing the cream of the crop. Which in turn will force the other burger joints to raise wages if they want to keep valuable employees. Its the law of economics.
If a corporation keeps you in a helpless situation you need to get out of that situation as quickly as possible. Government intervention is not necessary.
People like to point at big corporations as evil and greedy. This may or may not be true. But the problem is when the minimum wage is increased it effects all business. Including small mom and pops. To the point they may have to reduce hours, lay off or reduce other benefits just to keep the doors open. Been there done that. My striper makes $8 an hour. With a 9th grade education he's happy to make it. I cannot afford to pay him $10 he's simply not worth it. He would be out of a job and I'll be working more hours.
I know there has been a push to raise the MW to $15.
What I wonder is, how would that affect the next tier of employees who were already making that much? Will they get a raise to keep them ahead of the minimum? Or will they suddenly find themselves working alongside, and making the same pay as entry level employees?
I think I would be PO'ed if I had worked at a place for several years, and made my way up to $12-$15 hr., and then some untrained high school kid hires in making the same pay.
If the MW does go way up, I don't see employers giving equal raises across the board.
In OZ we get paid for public holidays
10 days sick leave
4 weeks annual leave on average
Some jobs can get up to 6 weeks
Allan
Quote from: Allan on February 12, 2015, 01:51:49 pm
In OZ we get paid for public holidays
10 days sick leave
4 weeks annual leave on average
Some jobs can get up to 6 weeks
Allan
Yup, other countries do it. Canada, Germany, Australia & many more but we b*tch about the Government intruding into businesses. Meanwhile we have kids that cannot afford to move out, single parents on food stamps and people who work at McD's/Walmart and their ilk having to work 2 or 3 jobs just to keep afloat. If Bob & I were younger, we would be moving out of Country.
Virginia
Yep, and in France minimum wage is $10.60. Guess what McDonalds did there.
Many low skilled and young workers get their start in a journey to better and higher paying jobs at fast food restaurants. By raising worker wages many fast-food restaurants will respond by restructuring dramatically in order to use less labor. And fewer opportunities for low-skilled and young-workers to be employed.
Not surprisingly, every McDonald's in France has resorted to using touch screen ordering rather than workers. It simply doesn't make sense, when minimum wage starts that high, to employ people when machines can do the job.
http://dailysignal.com/2015/02/03/french-mcdonalds-tell-us-pros-cons-minimum-wage-hike/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=c2w&utm_campaign=2515MinimumWage
Quote from: Allan on February 12, 2015, 01:51:49 pm
In OZ we get paid for public holidays
10 days sick leave
4 weeks annual leave on average
Some jobs can get up to 6 weeks
Allan
Aren't you self employed. When I'm not at my bench I'm not making money. When I'm camping or kayaking I'm not making money.
There have been many times in my life I've worked 3 jobs. Nothing wrong with that if your motivated and want to get ahead. Been a while since I've taken two days off in a row. And when I get sick I don't get paid. Its really hard for me to feel sorry for a 30 year old who still lives at home with mommy and daddy. I left home when I was 18.
I'm not bitter about my life. Its been a great journey. What I cant stand is this entitlement attitude.
Can someone please tell me when entitled became such a dirty word?
I believe that all Americans are entitled to earn a decent wage, health care, decent roads, education, children are entitled to a loving, safe environment, foot and a roof over their heads and other things too numerous to mention.
If you are saddled with 24K in student loans and can only get a job at McD's for minimum wage, you have no choice but to live with your parents. I've worked multiple jobs in my life and never minded it but it was my CHOICE not a necessity to eeke by a sh*tty existence.
Since I started Sew & Sew, I rarely take a day off. Again, that's my choice not a necessity because I can't make ends meet otherwise.
Virginia
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on February 12, 2015, 07:36:54 am
An interesting point doc, re minimum wage and the price of a Big Mac. Mickey D's had profits in the billions last year (record profits, I believe) so it is ludicrous for them to say that they have to raise the price of their gut bombs. There is a chain (can't remember the name right now) that pays $10.00 per hour and their food prices are actually slightly under McDonalds. IQuote from: sofadoc on February 12, 2015, 06:56:57 am
. BUT.......what if that means that we pay 10 bucks for a Big Mac?
ised to be in NH 2003 I could stop at mcyDs and get 2 mcmuffin breakfast meals for 5 bucks. now for 2 its 10 and change
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on February 12, 2015, 04:17:08 pm
If you are saddled with 24K in student loans and can only get a job at McD's for minimum wage, you have no choice but to live with your parents. I've worked multiple jobs in my life and never minded it but it was my CHOICE not a necessity to eeke by a sh*tty existence.
I'm not trying to bust your chops Virginia but how is raising minimum wage going to help this graduate get a better job or help lower unemployment. Raising minimum wage will only keep him in his wretched job longer and make it harder for someone with no skills to obtain this same job. Lets work on lowering unemployment and getting those collage graduates a decent living by getting the economy back on track and for gods sake stop printing money. Only then should we consider raising minimum wages.
Our government controls the minimum wage. It is only a matter of time before they take control of the maximum wage. They are making efforts to start with CEO's.
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Walk down the street of any inner city in our country. If you don't get mugged or worse, look at the living conditions of inner city people. Illiterate and totally dependent on the government. These folks are entitled. "Entitled" is one of the most vulgar, disgusting, and perverse words in our English language.
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Paid holidays are great, but someone has to pay for it. It ain't free, folks.
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The CEO of Gallup recently showed that the unemployment rate has been well over 10% for the last 6 years. What the government and the state sponsored news media has been reporting (5%ish) is a lie. I think more and more people are realizing how much we are being lied to by this administration and the main stream news media. This is why Brian Williams is out. He is a lier and that draws attention to the fact that he is no different in what he says about his personal life than what he is reading off the TelePrompter.
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I drove through McDonalds yesterday for a coffee. When I gave my money to the young lady at the window, she rang it up on the cash register and then asked:
"Did you do something bad today?"
I said, "Why are you asking me that?"
She said, "Because your customer number on the receipt is 666."
I said, "Do you really think Satan would be in a McDonalds' drive through?"
Her face got a very serious expression on it and she said very honestly, not intending to be joking, "Every day!"
gene
Economist reporting on this problem are pointing to much deeper problems, but without spending time on this keyboard with issues not in line with the board's intend, say the problem (biggest and not denying the arguments pointed towards the rich) say it is simply due to low productivity in the US and cheaper/qualified competition off shore.
We got our punch from the computer developments (everywhere - manufacturing- retailing) back several years ago but it isn't aiding the economy like we have been used to because other economies in the international scene are beating us.
The problem is big, for example, the 3-D printing (newest technologies used in modern manufacturing) doesn't reside with us only anymore, like stated - off shore now has it and the effects as we see are low employment.
I appologize for using the convenience of this site for none topic items - so hope it returns to upholstery related subjects - for that is the only way the moderator/owner can keep making it available. Yes, everything has to be paid for by someone!
BTW, quarterly reports from US companies - some up and some down (MC Donalds and Panera Bread to name two - why? Competition!). Things change and right now raising the minimum wage isn't the answer to the big problem. It is likely to get worse before getting better. If you are making it - good for you.
Thanks
Doyle
Thank you all for your input. I had and idea what I was going to do before I asked for others input. I just wanted to see what you had to say.
What I will be doing is sitting down with my 2 employees and explain to them the dilema I am in. The state is requiring me to start giving you 3 sick days a year. I can not absort more paid time off, as much as as I would like to. There are a lot off small companies that do not give paid holidays.
We will figure out what 3 holidays they will not get for anymore. Will make it clear that starting now you will have 3 paid sick days.
OK, I can get this back on track to how it pertains to upholstery.
Paid time off and raising the minimum wage all have to come from somewhere. When you have a corporation boasting record profits and a CEO that is paid more in one year than all of the people I know will ever make in their lifetimes, it is a no-brainer to me as to where that somewhere is.
Those changes could be implemented and the CEO's will still be rich beyond my imagination. The workers will still be struggling, BTW, but at least this way they might not have to work 2 or 3 jobs. Does NOT seem unreasonable to me.
How does this pertain to upholstery you might ask? In my world, if the MW is raised, there must be an automatic across the board raise for those other employees. I'm quite certain that at least some of this money will come to some of us upholsterer's in the form of new jobs.
Seriously, these are my last words on the subject. This is like politics and religion. Y'all won't change my mind and I am probably not going to change any of your minds.
Virginia
I'm staying out of the politics, even though I have my own views. Economics -- the dismal science.
But, have you ever been in a building with a 13th floor? Did you ever look at the buttons on the elevator and realize there is no (13) button? Did you notice that even and odd numbers change columns in a two-column display because 12 and 14 are on the same row? Do people on floor 14 even realize they're being duped and they are on floor 13? Just saying.
Quote from: gene on February 13, 2015, 05:51:33 am
"Did you do something bad today?"
I said, "Why are you asking me that?"
She said, "Because your customer number on the receipt is 666."
gene
I used have a boss who often would say in a meeting, "I'm thinking out loud here..." He was probably the most left-brained person I know. A psychologist once told me I resembled Mr. Spock in my degree of left-brained attribute (analytic and logical). And I thought my boss was way beyond that. Once he said, "I won't always agree with you. Heck, I don't always even agree with myself [once I've said something out loud.]"
QuoteA psychologist once told me I resembled Mr. Spock in my degree of left-brained attribute
At least the psychologist didn't say you resembled Mr. Spock's left ear attibute. :)
gene
Coles notes from Canada;
Statutory holidays like Christmas are paid holidays. If you work that day you are to receive time and a half. that"s the law.
The "made up-'cause we need a long weekend this month" holidays like August long are at the employer's discretion.They are not bound by law to pay us---it is something negotiated between employers and employees.
We are entitled to 2 weeks vacation pay after 1 year on the job and 3 after 5years etc...
there is no law that forces the employer to give you the time off (that I am aware of) but you have the right and the precedent to request it.
Here's how the funding works; The employer is to provide 4% of your wage (the equivalent of 2 weeks work) for the first 5years and 6% thereafter (3 weeks) etc...WHEN they pay it is the employer's choice. Some places include it in your pay packet every two weeks---others make a lump some payment, either in the form of a pay cheque the two weeks were away or a payout at the end of the financial cycle.
We do not have MANDATORY sick days but it is quite common for the employer to offer them if they are larger than a Mom and Pop organization.
I can't speak for all Canadians of course, but my situation is very typical. Because that 4% is applicable to all hours worked,including overtime, my vac.pay always exceeds the two weeks we are closed over Christmas (especially because we have to stat. holidays in there) so for days like remembrance day (Nov.11---other countries have different names for it) where I refuse to work I draw on my vac. pay fund and still receive a full cheque.That is an arrangement between us-not federal regulations. He could make me wait and receive that money at the year end "pay out". Or upon my dismissal/resignation.
So Darren, explain to me your health care, satisfaction or dissatisfaction with it, etc. Just curious.
Thanks!
Virginia
In a nut shell the province you live in pays for medical treatment. If I broke my leg skiing in Banff Alberta I'd go to the nearest hospital and have it cast. the hospital would then submit a bill through their chain of command and Manitoba health would stroke them a cheque. Any pain killers or antibiotics etc...after I was discharged, I would have to pay for.Some treatments like chiropractors etc...get some provincial funding for my visit but I still have to pay a portion when I get a treatment. Only emergency dentistry is covered. If someone knocks your teeth out with a hockey stick they will fix you up.If you want a partial plate to replace them ----go buy one. If you break the same teeth biting one of the mother-in-laws biscuits---your on your own.
I think it is a good system. The kid that asked you if wanted fries with that should enjoy as healthy a life as the suit behind you at the drive through in the Lexus. MHO. I have to admit that I haven't researched the health care changes happening in your country because I don't have TV access. The one concern I did hear was that people thought it would drive up their taxes. I can't answer to that----I don't know how much of my tax money goes towards healthcare. I do know that it is less (and less corrupted) than social assistance.
Is it perfect?----Hell no! Our wait times are horrendous e.g I waited for over four hours in emergency to get a dog bite looked at and the bleeding stopped. Dad was diagnosed with cancer Apr 01 and had his first visit with cancer care on Sept 19. Sept 21 he was admitted to hospital until his passing. Our doctor shortage is most acute in rural areas. Many of the 1-3K population towns have lost or are loosing their hospitals or at least emergency services etc... and cannot retain new doctors and nurses. My sister graduated her nursing program in 2010? in a class of 21 run in a rural town through the university here in Brandon. They all had jobs a month before they graduated.
Just curious Darren. Is your sisters and doctors income in Canada regulated by the government?
I had this same conversation with a customer who had emigrated from Germany. He spoke with a thick accent and he said the same thing about the shortage of doctors there. I asked him about their income and he said a taxi driver makes more than a doctor. He said collage education for doctors is paid for by the state but as soon as they finish their internship they leave the country for a more prosperous future.
This is my biggest concern about government controlled health care. Are our brightest and best collage graduates going to want to enter a field where wages are regulated. Why would they want to spend all those years studying medicine when an engineering or computer science degree is easier to get and pays more money? And the more desperate we become for doctors the more medical schools standards will be lowered.
If I need medical help do I want my doctor to be the guy who chose medicine because he couldn't get into, lets say, law school?
Scott:
I believe what your venturing into here is cost analysis. One thing I would like to point out is this.
Hiring an employee and bringing them up to speed through training to where they are productive and makes you money costs money. Our work is not a job that just anyone can learn. So if your counting your dollars on the front end your going to be losing on the back end if that employee skates out the door.
Now your back to hiring, training a new employee and losing money until they are productive again.
Myself I would much rather pay extra for a solid employee who will stick around versus having a revolving door of new employees. So, will your added benefits keep your current employees around longer ? Just something to think about. Savings is not always tied into what you crunch the numbers to be. You have to weigh all options.
For the record our new employee that we hired a week ago we started out at $ 10 per hour. She is a single Mom, a hard worker, going to college and she needs the extra 2 bucks an hour a helluva lot more then we do. She is also part time.
Best of luck to you my friend. I am sure you will find the right answer.
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on February 15, 2015, 07:53:47 am
Myself I would much rather pay extra for a solid employee who will stick around versus having a revolving door of new employees.
We had a woman here in town a few years ago, who opened her own Starbucks-type coffee shop.
She felt the same way. She paid better so she wouldn't have to keep re-training.
She paid the barristas $15 an hour. Even the guys who just did the mopping made 10 bucks.
She was broke in less than a year. The employees completely screwed off every moment that she wasn't there. And when they weren't screwing off, they were stealing her blind.
She would've been better off to just hire MW employees, and an assistant manager to constantly ride their ass.
Of course, that's assuming that you can find an assistant manager who won't screw off and steal.
Thought I posted this earlier from my laptop but it didn't make it on here.
Thanks for the answers Darren. Always nice to hear from someone who is actually using a system.
We have a variety of policies available to us as Federal retirees. None of them include dental or vision worth squat so we purchase supplemental policies to cover them. Still questionable to me as far as what they "cover" as a crown was $1,000 last one I had and our new dental policy will pay 50% to which I say "Who hoo -- I still have to come up with $500 to get my broken tooth fixed".
As far as waiting time goes. MIL's Parkinson doc is a 3 month wait. Her hearing doc is somewhat longer. My spinal surgeon who fused my back is at least a 3 month wait. Our PCP is KS was a 6 week wait as he was very sought after. So, we are already familiar with waiting periods.
On scripts, our insurance pays a portion only. On generics, I can get a 90 day supply for $20.00. Non generic's depend on their cost. One of Bob's diabetic meds for 90 days after co-pay is around $120. Better than a sharp stick in the eye.
Glad to hear that someone else thinks that health care should be automatic. When I worked at the Feedlot outside of the town, the owner used to strut around saying "Health care is a privilege not a right." I was the Office Liberal so I figured he was just trying to rile me up, though he truly did believe that. We used to have interesting discussions about it. Drove him crazy that our insurance was better than his. I think he secretly felt like Federal Retirement Benefits was just another form of welfare but knew better than to fess up to me that he felt that way : o
Thanks again for the info Darren!
Virginia
Dennis:
It's a crap shoot these days when dealing with young workers. Very few get it and most are lazy as hell. Pride in your work, work ethics, etc. steadily goes down hill every year. Finding help for manual labor jobs is tough. Most of the kids now days want an office and a computer job.
HVAC technicians, diesel mechanics, auto mechanics, etc. are all hard to find. I had my local Hvac company come over last week to tune up my system. The technician said they have a hard time finding tech's and when they do half of them cannot pass a drug test. The ones who do pass show up for work when they want to.
Ask Darren about the shortage of diesel mechanics in the sand fields ( and they start these guys pout in the 6 figure bracket ). They cannot get oil workers in North Dakota because of the cold climate despite pyaing high wages. On and on it goes. I have a buddy who owned a chain of McDonalds. He said he would weed out the good workers from the bad, keep the good ones and fire the bad ones and then pay a good hourly wage for the good ones. Many of them went into management positions and one went on to buy his own McDonalds franchise. He said his attrition rate was low compared to other franchises because he paid $ 10 per hour.
I often wonder what this country will be like 20 years from now with the lazy group of kids who are coming up. Video games, computers, cable TV, smart phones etc. and Mommy and Daddy turning them into entitled kids has really changed the mindset of these kids.
Chris
QuoteIs your sisters and doctors income in Canada regulated by the government?
I'm not sure. Nurses are paid hourly wages by the facility they work for. I don't know what regulative body sets the range for those wages. Here every trade has a range usually set by the labour board and any unions involved.
Doctors make good money here. The problem I have is that they are paid piece-work---office visit $50,write prescription $50,7 stitches @$75 ea. etc...makes one wonder if you really needed this or that. But then again I ask my mechanic to see all my old parts too for the same reason. They also get kick backs from the drug companies---which always make me ask if tablet A is better for me than tablet B or does it pay him more? Did I really even need either of them?