QuoteThanks Gene - HATE is a strong word.
SteveA posted this on another topic in response to me being a bit silly, and I didn't want to hijack that topic, too much, so I started a new thread on the topic of hate.
I would agree that hate is a strong word. However, have you ever gotten a shot of adrenalin along with a massive dose of self righteous indignation from disliking someone?
Hate is addictive. Just look around our world, country, state, county, town, neighborhood. The news media primarily reports on people who are addicted to hate. And the majority of people who read/listen to the news are either addicted to hate or addicted to watching people who are addicted to hate, or both. What is the primary content for most of our TV shows and movies? Hate.
Give someone the middle finger and scream at them "I dislike you!!!" LOL It just doesn't have the same 'ring' to it.
"Can't we all just get along?" Rodney King.
Nope. We can't. Too much hate.
gene
Gene - you made my point - the root of hate is lack of education. The schools need to get going and figure out what they are doing wrong. Hate comes from ignorance - education can cure that - are conservative values not a good thing anymore.
SA
Yup, we are all about self-righteous indignation.
Flipping someone off while saying how much you "dislike" them would not make you feel nearly so good.
I don't succeed but I do try not to hate and I also try to not let anger get the best of me because both use up so much negative energy. I'm old enough that I need to conserve my energy not wastefully use it up. LOL I have a hard time in succeeding with not hating when the drunks across the street crank up their music so that it makes my windows rattle and then proceed to start play fighting as it's only a matter of time before it becomes serious fighting. I work at not hating them every time I see them come back from the convenience store with a case of beer in hand. UGH!
So, how can we, in some small way, help to reverse the flow of hate in this country? I'm deadly serious in asking this. Kinda like the Random Acts of Kindness or Paying It Forward. I like to think that we should be able to start a campaign to slow all the hate that we see in this country. Would be kind of cool if we started it here!
Virginia
Quote from: SteveA on November 01, 2014, 08:11:08 am
Gene - you made my point - the root of hate is lack of education. The schools need to get going and figure out what they are doing wrong. Hate comes from ignorance - education can cure that - are conservative values not a good thing anymore.
SA
I think maybe the conservative values we grew up with in the 50's and 60's were ok. The conservative values I see today embody hate in its worst form. I have a serious problem with the conservative politicians who say they have values. See Sarah Palin and her brood just for starters.
I think that the conservatives who preach values want to take us back to segregation, women that stay home barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen whether they want to or not.
I think that children are healthiest and happiest when they grow up in a two parent family where those two people are strongly committed. I don't think that two people should stay in a marriage "for the children" because the children know when the parents are not happy and the children then blame themselves. How you get a strongly committed two parent family I don't know -- I do know that religion is NOT always the answer. I saw lots of children beaten by good Christian people who went to church every Sunday, then came home and got drunk, beat their kids, whipped the dogs and then got the wife pregnant again even though they really could not afford another child but that was what their church taught them to do.
Virginia
I should make sure that it is understood that I do not hate Christians or organized religion. It is just used to hate oftentimes. I know people who go to church faithfully who are not Christians in any sense of the word and I know people who do not go to church who try very hard to live by Christ's teachings. My last set of foster parents, IMO, were true Christians in just about every sense of the word.
Virginia
If I could turn the clock back and live in the 50's + 60's I would. Sara Palin - please tell me that this one person is not the only basis for an example. I also don't think there is anyone who promotes segregation - barefoot - etc.
And yes you can tell a tree by the fruit it bares !
As with all problems facing the world today, is there really more hate going on? Or does the media just makes us more aware of it? I would think that worldwide hate was at an all-time high during WW2.
Is crime as rampant and uncontrollable as it was during the heyday of Prohibition and the mob?
The media would have us believe that disease is ravaging mankind like never before. But I'd much rather take my chances remaining healthy today than 100 years ago.
Quote from: SteveA on November 01, 2014, 11:34:22 am
If I could turn the clock back and live in the 50's + 60's I would.
In a heartbeat, I would go back to Mayberry, and live next door to Andy, Opie, and Aunt Bea. I'd have me a little upholstery shop next to Floyd the barber. I'd walk down to the gas station for a pop, where me and Goober would laugh every time we saw Barney doing something goofy.
Of course, then I would see Andy walking with Helen Crump (the only hot chick in town), and I would hate him for it. Then the cycle of hate would start all over again. ;)
Customers would start complaining that 50 bucks is WAY too much to recover a couch. My old Singer would constantly break down, and Emmit's Fix-It shop would NEVER fix it right. Everyone would start taking their furniture to a shop in Mt. Pilot.
I would end up sitting in front of my shop all day angry and bitter, and blaming the current administration for all my woes........................OK, on second thought I guess I'll just stay right where I am.
Seriously, you would go back to the 50's.
The 50's:
Blacks sit on the back of the bus, cannot eat at the same lunch counters as whites, different schools, etc.
Women are expected to marry, have babies, stay home and say soothing things to hubby after a hard day's work. If a woman was raped, she was afraid to report it as the authorities and most everyone else would tell her that she was walking, dressing or talking in a manner that let that poor, poor man know that she really did "want it".
Girls are trained at a young age that even if they are smarter than the good looking but dumb jock, they must not let him know it or they will never get to go to the big dance with him.
Everyone pretty much stayed in the circle in which they were born: polish only married polish, germens only married germens, etc.
No thanks.
On the plus side of the 50's, gas was cheap as was most essentials. We could live on one parent's salary. Crime was pretty low but there were the occasional mass murders, such as the Chicago nursing students dorm murders. We were much less informed about the world which probably made us much happier.
Seriously overall, no as a woman, I would NEVER EVER want to go back to that time period. I got my first real job in 1974 at Mutual of Omaha. My only choices were to be a secretary, receptionist, mail room opening mail or my job -- tour guide. The men were given choices such as computer programmer, underwriter, etc. When I was a senior in high school, I went to the guidance counselor about going to collage. He asked me did I want to be a Nurse or a Teacher -- ugh -- never, ever want women to have to go back to that kind of existence. NEVER!
As far as Sarah Palin. No, there are other examples. Pat Robertson know that he was brought up in the Halloween thread is another example. Quite a few of the Republican Candidates come to mind. Mr. Anthony Wiener not because he hates but just because he is such a flippin' hypocrite.
I don't think that enough people read enough to understand what is going on. They listen to sound bites and they hear a candidate talk about good old family values so they cast their vote for them. 2 or 4 or 6 years later, they shake their head about how nothing is getting done in Washington but if they had read they would have seen where their candidate vowed to stop Mr. Obama from getting anything done so the Government was shut down. Yet when that candidate came up for re-election, they vote for him/her again because of the family values sound bites. Then, what really fries me is that they say both parties do it. Nope, not once during Reagan, Bush I or Bush II did candidates ever go to Washington promising to prevent any of those presidents from doing their jobs. Has happened at every election since BHO was elected president and man is it being said during this campaign. McConnell is frothing at the bit to become the Senate Majority leader so that BHO will become the most lame duck president in the history of the USA. Again, all of these candidates are running on good ole' conservative family values. Oh and they all want to tell me what to do with my uterus (if I still had one), including what forms of birth control (none if they eventually get their way) but boy do they want to make sure that their insurance pays for their little blue pills (.v.i.a.g.r.a.). Horrendous hypocrisy. Perhaps the worst one is that they decry abortion as the worst thing ever -- killing the unborn. Then once those babies are born, they slash food stamps, actually take their lunches away if their parents haven't been able to pay the school lunch bill, and worse.
Having said that, I get frustrated at children having children for example. I used to work ER in Kentucky/Ohio. I saw the generational replay of having children with no participating father(s) and having multiple children before they were out of their teens. I don't pretend to know how to stop it. I do know that touting family values while slashing the only support that those children who do not ask to be born has is NOT the answer. I would love to see it stop but I know what has been done in the past and what is going on now is NOT the answer. Our proportion of poor is growing, children go to bed hungry and cold and it's only getting worse. I seriously fear for those who cannot fend for themselves if McConnell and company get control of both parties come this Tuesday. Their idea of family values brings tears of compassion for the less fortunate to my eyes because once upon a time, I depended on the social programs that are now so popular to cut by those great compassionate conservatives in Washington.
Virginia
Without a doubt - back to the 50's when you didn't need gates on your windows, Medco locks, and Families were closer. With a choice I take Palin over Biden - not to say she is exemplary but a good strong woman - salt of the earth. - If you call to join - the door is always open. Peace be with you ! I submit to your good judgment !
SA
If "salt of the earth" means placing crosshairs over Gabby Giffords (and other) names that Palin was targeting, then I hope no one ever refers to me as "salt of the earth". My choice would probably be neither Biden nor Palin but if I must choose one, it is Biden in a landslide. Yours is a door I do not chair to pass through and comments such as yours give me little hope for this once great Country.
Out here.
SofaD, I wonder if Aunt Bea might be able to ease your mind a bit. I'm talking about her cooking!!! Come on. Get your minds out of the gutter. :)
I do think you gave a great example of how life works. Mayberry is a great place because we do not live there. We idolize and worship and lust after movie stars because we never have to smell their farts and burps or clean up the vomit when they get sick. The grass is always greener on the other side only because we are not on the other side.
I had a college professor in philosophy who always said, "What must I do to live the good life?" Wishing I was somewhere else never seemed to do it for me.
I never found Barney Fife to be funny. Irritating, yes. Funny, no.
gene
Hate: Does anyone really hate?, or are we just socially programed to believe we do? I for one do not hate, yes I become angry, annoyed, upset, frustrated, but justifiable anger is normal, even healthy, it's what one does with it that matters.
I think it's important to realize that sometimes we are justified in our anger, or other emotions. Then think it through and decide just why we feel how we feel, I have had times when this took days to sort out. Then deal with it and let it go.
It's also important to understand we can't change anyone! The only one you can change is yourself. If you want to change the world you have to realize you can only change it one person at a time and that one person is yourself. Others will see the positiveness in you and want to emulate it, and thus through changing yourself, someone else decides to change as well.
I think once we realize that we are not responsible for other peoples behavior that feeling of "hate" goes away, and we realize it for what it is, our own frustration towards ourselves for not being able to change people.
I believe in karma and what energy you put forth into the world you will receive back. So many people see Karma working only in the negative, but it is a positive force as well. If you send out negativity, you will get negativity, if you send out positivity, you will receive positivity. If you don't believe me, check it out, when walking around people, smile at them, most will smile back, scowl at then and most will return the favor.
As Gandhi once said "Be the change you want to see in the world"
I'm not the moderator, but can I blow the whistle on this and suggest that we stop the political and religious discussions? There are lots of other places for that.
I can't think of anyone that I truly hate. There are a lot of people that I will never attend the same outdoor cookout with. We'll never go to a Cowboy or Ranger game together. And if we see each other in the grocery store, we'll probably not really acknowledge each other.
But when forced to socially interact with those people, I tend to go out of my way to be nicer to them than you might expect. And for the most part, they usually reciprocate.
Keith
I agree - not characteristic of the site but curious that you draw a line in the sand. Content goes in many directions here - it's interesting to read folks points of view and maybe even defend your own. I guess it's a slow news week here ?
SA
What keeps this site alive, it is a business? Common sense is .....other business buying a spot here to sell upholstery supplies and related equipment.
Therefore, if a line isn't drawn, this site will understandably go away. It takes money to keep it going. What is gained to not understand what is available and how it can go away?
Doyle
I've never really understood why some people get so passionate about their religious and political views. But then, maybe it's because I've never really had any hardships in my life. It's easy for me to sit in my comfortable home and eat from an ample pantry, and go to bed without even checking to make sure the front door is locked.
I posted a lighthearted post about living in Mayberry in the 50's. As Virginia pointed out, the 50's weren't good for everyone. Mainly, they were just good for the white guys.
But what I've never been able to grasp. If you're a Democrat........ALL Republicans are not only wrong........but they're evil too! And vice-versa. If you're a Baptist, all other denominations are going to hell. And they feel the same way about you.
The real answer is probably somewhere in-between all these extreme point of views.
I'm thinking about hating Gene though, because he said that Barney Fife wasn't funny. Where'd you go to school Gene? Saddam Hussein Senior High? :D
Yup, I should have said and neglected to say that I absolutely believe that we need both parties working TOGETHER for our system to work correctly. Left unchecked, the Dems would give too much away and left unchecked the "R's" are going to only pad the pockets of the wealthy while the poor get poorer. Therefore they need to work together for the betterment of everyone. The problem is that many of the "R's" in Washington right now as well as many of the candidates have made it clear that they do not intend to work together, going for another stalemate which probably translates to another shutdown which is not good for the Country or any of us.
I hope I made it clear in my earlier post that I don't think that all voting Republicans are evil, they just listen to too many sound bites. I'm sure that some Dems do that as well. I don't listen to many commercials, especially political ones as they are ALL horrible. I do lots of reading especially voting records of the incumbents and go from there.
Virginia
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on November 03, 2014, 07:43:54 am
I don't listen to many commercials, especially political ones as they are ALL horrible.
It was a better time before the Ad Men that sell soap and cereal started doing the political commercials.
We have a race going on in Texas where one candidate accuses the other of voting to "let rapists go free". The pro-rape candidate counters by saying that his opponent has voted against education every time.
Of course, all Texas candidates claim to have a strong stance on border patrol. But they do it tactfully so as not to offend the HUGE number of voting Hispanics in the state.
And how many times have we seen a political ad where they show a split-screen of the 2 candidates. One guy has a contemptible seedy PO'ed look on his face, while the other has an angelic smile, and a radiant glow above his head.
Why do they resort to these sleazy tactics? Because they work (at least that's what the ad men tell them).
The ads just make my skin get that creepy feeling and I want to run and grab my billfold firmly. UGH!
On a side note, kind of funny. Bob had agreed to volunteer for the Dem running for Governor. I think he would be a good fit but doesn't stand a chance against all the money being poured into the State (that should still be illegal). The volunteer that called Bob said he would come over Saturday afternoon and show him how to do it from home. Bob retired on a disability because of an on the job injury that didn't heal well and if he doesn't keep his leg elevated, it balloons up to twice its normal size or more. The dude told Bob he would be by in the afternoon, probably mid-afternoon. Well, he was a no-call, no-show which did NOT amuse me in the least.
About 8:45 pm, our front doorbell rang (Sew & Sew is the side door with it's own unique doorbell). Bob flipped the porch light on and it was a gentleman. Before the guy had a chance to say anything, Bob told him it was just too late. The guy asked if Bob was sure and Bob made some remark about the afternoon being long over with. Somehow (don't remember exactly as I wasn't paying that close of attention), Bob said something about Democrats. The guy responded back with something about Nebraska being a Republican state.
Suddenly, I knew this was a customer for me. I had called this guy's wife on Thursday to let her know that she could bring her patio chairs over whenever it was convenience (since it has gotten cold enough that they are probably not going to be hanging out in the patio area until Spring). I had not heard back from her which was ok as I'm not going to recover them for several weeks. I'd never met her husband but I just knew that it was her Bob. I pretty much sprinted to the door (before things could get heated) and looked at him, stuck out my hand and said "I'm Virginia and you just have to be Bob. If you have the patio chairs with you it's not too late." So he sauntered off to his truck and brought in the chair seats for me. We all had a good laugh about it. He apologized for not letting me know he was coming. I kept telling him not a big deal. Hubby Bob kept apologizing for his part though he had not really said anything to apologize for. Still very funny but could easily have gone South if either of the Bob's had felt like antagonizing the other. Whew!!
Virginia
QuoteThe real answer is probably somewhere in-between all these extreme point of views.
One word-Pride.
Rich
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on November 03, 2014, 07:43:54 am
...many of the candidates have made it clear that they do not intend to work together, going for another stalemate which probably translates to another shutdown which is not good for the Country or any of us.
Virginia
I believe the threat to shut down the government is a good thing. The framers of the constitution gave congress the power of the purse to keep the executive branch in check. All spending has to go through congress and if the president is doing things that are wrong or illegal, congress can shut him down by not giving him the funding. Will this congress do that? I doubt they have the backbone.
Quote from: kodydog on November 06, 2014, 07:47:35 am
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on November 03, 2014, 07:43:54 am
...many of the candidates have made it clear that they do not intend to work together, going for another stalemate which probably translates to another shutdown which is not good for the Country or any of us.
Virginia
I believe the threat to shut down the government is a good thing. The framers of the constitution gave congress the power of the purse to keep the executive branch in check. All spending has to go through congress and if the president is doing things that are wrong or illegal, congress can shut him down by not giving him the funding. Will this congress do that? I doubt they have the backbone.
I'm assuming you are referring to Obamacare. The premise of ACA is much needed. Our current ACA was actually modeled after a Republican think tank effort. None of us have much of an idea of everything in the ACA due to its voluminous size and I take some offense to that. I do think that a one-payer system is what the country needs and we definitely need protection for folks with pre-existing conditions. Everytime someone walks into ER or is admitted to a hospital without insurance, all of us with insurance are in effect paying his/her bill as they tag those uninsured folks into our charges. Not to mention that women who deliver babies without having had the benefit or prenatal care tend to deliver underweight babies who require more doctor care. I know from working ER that folks without insurance use the ER as a doctor's office. It would be cheaper all around if we had a one-payer system. I doubt it will ever happen though because insurance companies make too much money off illness/insurance policies.
As to whether Obamacare is illegal or wrong, I can't answer that. I think that everyone should have insurance (even those that are here illegally). Those folks are some of the people using ER as a doctor's office running up our hospitalization costs. The parts of Obamacare that can be challenged have been. I hope that it is a dead horse that no longer gets beaten. We have way bigger problems to deal with IMO.
I still take issue with shutting the government down. All we are doing is giving Government employees additional vacation days as they are paid after the fact for shut down days so in effect it costs the government big bucks and doesn't really change anything.
Gotta get to work. Had a nice lazy morning.
Virginia
Here's the funny thing about Obama Care. People were screaming and hollering about how evil and greedy the insurance companies were. So in his infinite wisdom Obama passed a law that requires all citizens to buy their product. The insurance companies are now fatter and happier than ever. Wouldn't it have made a lot more since to fix the problems rather than reform the entire system? People are still using emergency rooms for medical care because the government forces hospitals to except them. It's the government that got us into the mess not the hospitals or insurance companies. Abolishing frivolous lawsuits would drop the cost of insurance charged to doctors and ease the burden in our courts. A loser pays system could be a start.
My wife has a per-existing condition. Two years ago she got a job with the state and signed on to their insurance program. A fantastic deal. Now she want's to come back and join me in my business. So she checked out Obama Care. Yes the insurance companies do have to take people with per-existing conditions but they can charge what they feel is necessary to make up for there losses. What once cost us $500 a month for self employed insurance would now cost us over $1000 a month. Basically shes stuck in her state job. It almost seams that's right where the government wants us. Dependent on them.
I support freedom of choice, as long as that choice harms no one else. It's the American way. If a healthy collage student, strapped with tuition's wants to opt out shouldn't they be allowed without paying penalties?
Quote from: kodydog on November 06, 2014, 11:01:45 am
I support freedom of choice, as long as that choice harms no one else. It's the American way. If a healthy collage student, strapped with tuition's wants to opt out shouldn't they be allowed without paying penalties?
If we could fix the system it would be great but it appears that the big insurance guys have their hands in the back pockets of most all of our elected representatives in Washington so nothing will get fixed. I'm reluctant to say that the loser pays court costs because that will encourage (more) big insurance companies to lie, cheat and steal to win lawsuits filed against them. It's already a very hard system to use correctly (lawsuits, etc). Two years ago, I was attacked by an 85 pound dog while I was walking on lunch hour. I was on the other side of the street, dog got out of a fenced yard that had a hole in the fence -- owner knew dog was getting out and did nothing to fix it. My left leg got damaged fairly badly -- I looked down and saw blood and tissue running down my leg. I was smart enough not to leave the scene until the County Sheriff's Office made a report and took pictures. For what it's worth, the dog bit the Deputy too. Anyway, Bob picked me up, we went to ER, they cleaned the wounds out, took more pictures, had Animal Control file a report and gave me a script for antibiotics. Leg got horribly infected within 48 hours. My PCP wanted to admit me to the hospital it was that infected. She gave me 24 hours for the infection to subside or she said she would have to admit me so that I wouldn't lose my leg. Crazy. Took 3 rounds of antibiotics to get rid of the infection. I immediately got this huge wad of scar tissue where she latched onto my leg. I didn't sleep for weeks as I was having nightmares of getting bit by that dog and other dogs, flashbacks while at work, etc. So, I was in physical therapy and saw a therapist for months. I wouldn't walk outside for over a year. I now walk outside with Bob but absolutely won't walk by myself. Anyway, dog owner's had home owner's insurance on their dog (that makes you wonder a bit too). Insurance company said from the get go that they were responsible for my bills however how it worked was that we were responsible for all of my co-pays, deductibles, out of pocket items, etc. By the time we were ready to talk settlement, we had paid close to $2,000 out of pocket to doctors, er, etc and another $1,500+ in lost wages. I could afford to pay all that up front but if I had been working minimum wage with 3 or 4 kids and no husband, I would have had no choice but to settle early -- that's what the insurance companies bank on.
I also have a pre-existing condition (fused back) and we've not looked into any other insurance but it's been a bit of a relief to know that ACA is there should anything happen to our insurance. Hopefully I'll never have to research that.
As far as opting out because you are "healthy". We don't let people opt out of having insurance on their cars because they might hit someone else and be at fault. So what happens to this healthy college student if he trips going down his basement steps (renting and doesn't have rental insurance), breaks his leg bad enough to need surgery and is hospitalized for a week, needs months of physical therapy? Now, we have the same ole same ole of racking up hundreds of thousands of medical bills that he will never be able to pay. Honestly, instead of all the insurance brokers and all that other crap, give everyone the same insurance that Bob and I got from working for the Government. If your employer was paying your premiums, they would reimburse the government. Even if you are young, you never know what is going to happen -- just look at that 29 year old who just died from an aggressive brain tumor. You should have insurance. Otherwise, something happens and you are now screwed for life with all of those medical bills. Or I guess the hospitals could refuse them service and we could let them bleed to death or die writhing in pain outside of the hospital doors. That's my problem with people not having insurance. The unexpected happens to enough people that they either are saddled for the rest of their life or if denied service ... the unthinkable to me.
I don't claim to have the correct answer but I honestly believe that single payer would take care of most of your points. Your wife would have great insurance and your premiums wouldn't double in price.
Virginia
My parents both would get PO'ed if I said I hated someone. They much preferred the word
" Dislike ". They felt hate was a very negative motion and one that should not be used.
Of course I also got this same lecture from the Priest and Nun's at school. :)
I have alot of people I do not care for but I do not hate them. I just avoid them at all costs.
Talking about going back in time I am pretty sure God meant for me to be living in the late 1800's.
I still cherish the discussions I had with my Dad, grandparents, Aunt's and Uncles about life back in the early 1900's up through the 50's.
Somewhere along the line we lost that ability to accept and be polite to others and to think of their
feelings before speaking. I always like to say " The more I know about people.....The more I love my dogs. ".
Chris
QuoteGod meant for me to be living in the late 1800's.
Around the turn of the century, as technology was taking over control of our brains and hands, my family and friends all joked about me being a "'90's kind of guy"----1890's !!! I should check e-bay for a "fix-er-upper" Delorian and rent the back to the future VHS for instructions on tricking it out. :D