How do ya'll charge, as in hourly or by the job? I would assume even when you provide a quote per job, in your mind you have a certain number of hours that you expect the particular job to take plus materials and a certain amount of profit (hopefully).
My real question is what basically is your hourly charge? I have a job that a manufacturer will be reimbursing my customer for as it was done incorrectly by the manufacturer twice. It's pretty cumbersome because of the size and nature of the job so I would have no problem in charging somewhat more than I might typically charge. Want to make sure that I am in keeping with what may be considered industry standard.
Anyway, if ya'll don't mind telling me what you figure your hourly charge to be I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanks!
Virginia
I cannot comment on how others charge. My situation is different as I do not charge by the hour but rather the product. My competitors set the prices and I just follow the industry standards. As it works out I end up on the high end - $ 135. All of my orders have very little variance so it is easy pricing them.
There are alot of variables with the rest of the gang on here with marine or furniture work. I think most will price just from experience knowing how long a job will take just by looking at it.
One of the problems with doing a job you have never done before is calculating how many hours it takes. Some of us have been bit in the butt. I am curious though as to how some handle quotes. Do you give a quote and then if it takes you longer then expected eat the hourly charge ?
Myself when I give a quote that is it. If it ends up costing me more then My bad. It is my problem then and I have had a few of these jobs. I eat the loss myself.
Chris
Hi!
I try to gauge how many hours the job should take (which is NOT necessarily how many it will take). At this point, it is not unusual for me to underbid, especially if it is the first time I have tackled a particular task. Doesn't matter - if I quoted a $$$ figure, that is what the customer will owe me.
This particular project is marine. These are covers for pontoons. One is 24', one is 20' and I'm not sure what the third is. They were simply cut wrong at the manufacturer end, sent back and returned still cut wrong. I am going in and cutting and splicing fabric as necessary so that the covers will fit, also there are some holes that need to be over certain rivets that are not correct so those sections of material are being replaced as necessary. I'm charging hourly on this project. I was thinking in terms of $25 an hour, which is substantially more than I usually charge. I work pretty cheap on a lot of projects, based on my experience and I do cut people slack if I know they truly cannot afford more. I work on vintage cars and those I jack up the price a lot as I know the owner can afford probably 5 x what I charge.
Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll not worry that I'm overcharging if I charge $25 an hour.
Virginia
Twenty five an hour is probably WAY too low. Of course shop rates and overheads vary considerably from state to state, from country to country,etc...,but the only way you could heat/AC the shop, pay the phone and hydro, cover those "unbillable" hours ordering material, etc... and still pay yourself minimum wage would be to live in a third world country.
That shop rate is probably costing you business as well. At the very least it is taking the good jobs away and leaving you with the Mickey mouse "just patch it up cheap" clientele. With internet and cell phones etc... people shop around; If the guy with the fancy signage quotes them $75/hr they get scared that you aren't "professional" and can be spooked off. We've had a number of members on here prove that over the years. They would reluctantly raise their shop rate and get a little more "hard-assed"about their billing and suddenly they were getting better contracts and their call-close ratios went up dramatically.
We'd all love to be able to help you more---but what my boss charges here in Manitoba, or what I charged when I had my shop in NW Ontario (it went bust BTW,cause I under charged) really tells you nothing in your market. My advice would be to phone around (or have an anonymous voice/# do it for you) and see what the local market will support. If your competitors don't want to divulge their shop rate ask for a ball park estimate on something you're familiar with. You know their material cost and a good idea of the time involved---just do the math.
Rant suspended . Don't be affraid to ask for what your work is worth.
Ditto @ Darren
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on July 15, 2014, 10:14:27 am
I do cut people slack if I know they truly cannot afford more.
In furniture, when doing a repair for the manufacturer, I charge a little more. My take is if they're going to keep cutting corners and sending out pieces with obvious flaws then why should I cut them any slack.
We do a lot of repair work for a store in town. We've become friends and they send us business. So when one of their delivery guys screws up I'll give them a break.
We charged $25/hour for a long time. We worked like dogs to make a decent living. Then we started inching our prices up and like Daren said we started getting more of the better jobs and less of the crappy ones.
I got a call from a lady today. Her sofa springs are sagging. I gave her an estimate to fix them then she asked how much to reupholster the whole thing. When I gave her that quote she exclaimed she could buy new for that. Yeah! She can buy another cheep sofa. Then I told her we're backed up 2 months. She was very surprised. So then I gave her the "about us" spiel. I explained some of the things we do that most others don't and she calmed down a little. I'm pretty sure we'll get the repair job.
The thing is the manufacturer screwed up the cover twice and now your the one that has to hassle with it. Charge a little more. They'll pay it just to get rid of it.
Quote from: Darren Henry on July 15, 2014, 03:48:48 pm
Twenty five an hour is probably WAY too low. Of course shop rates and overheads vary considerably from state to state, from country to country,etc...,but the only way you could heat/AC the shop, pay the phone and hydro, cover those "unbillable" hours ordering material, etc... and still pay yourself minimum wage would be to live in a third world country.
That shop rate is probably costing you business as well. At the very least it is taking the good jobs away and leaving you with the Mickey mouse "just patch it up cheap" clientele. With internet and cell phones etc... people shop around; If the guy with the fancy signage quotes them $75/hr they get scared that you aren't "professional" and can be spooked off. We've had a number of members on here prove that over the years. They would reluctantly raise their shop rate and get a little more "hard-assed"about their billing and suddenly they were getting better contracts and their call-close ratios went up dramatically.
We'd all love to be able to help you more---but what my boss charges here in Manitoba, or what I charged when I had my shop in NW Ontario (it went bust BTW,cause I under charged) really tells you nothing in your market. My advice would be to phone around (or have an anonymous voice/# do it for you) and see what the local market will support. If your competitors don't want to divulge their shop rate ask for a ball park estimate on something you're familiar with. You know their material cost and a good idea of the time involved---just do the math.
Rant suspended . Don't be affraid to ask for what your work is worth.
Worth repeating, listen to the voice of experience, Darren tried it, it didn't work.
One thing I might add, when a shop charges low prices, it can make it hard for other shops to raise their prices and everyone suffers.
Rich
I figure $75 per hour plus material and shipping and I round that up to the nearest 100 $360 is $400, for a dealer I charge $60 per hour plus . and time id figure for that 24 foot cover 8 hours if it on a trailer and not on a boat lift over the water
when I started this 20 years ago in NH I advertised as the best prices in the area and with my location I was fast and was able to do multiple boats in one day , I was new and just learning and hard working, here its just harder to do the same job and its one a day traveling instead of 4 -5
I could have charged more and done less but it worked here I get higher prices in the winter and many retired resident in the summer were a 80 drop in cost changes there mind .. it funny Darren when I moved to florida I called all the shop listed asking for a ballpark cost to do whatever. one guy asked if I was his competiton?
Listen to Darren closely, there is a strong message there.
Perhaps the right question to ask is: "can I live off what I earn - above minimum wage and build SS and retirement benefits?" If not, maybe a minimum wage job should be considered.
Being in business can become a very important consideration because there are so many factors to it. It isn't for everyone.
Doyle
Charging an hourly rate is something that I never could wrap my feeble brain around.
I just charge what I think the job is worth. Of course, time DOES factor into that equation. But I'd make myself crazy if I counted the minutes on each job. At the end of the week, I'm very happy with what I take to the bank for 40 hours work.
Like Kody, I do a lot of repair for furniture manufacturers and retailers. Many of those repairs only take a few minutes. I probably average $200 per hour on them. But since cheap furniture has just about put re-upholsterers out of business, I'm not going to cut them any slack.
Then of course, there are tedious jobs that I average just barely over minimum wage on.
I agree with Darren. Charging too little can be just as damaging as overcharging. You become typecast as a low budget/low quality repair shop. Much the way that some stores proclaim to be "Antique & junk" dealers. If you go into their store, the nice antiques don't look so valuable if they are blended in with the junk.
Sofa that sorta what i do I price the job not count hours. I figure a job as it should take 1 day or 5 days. Is material. nd then its the price for the job now a day job can e done by 2pm. If i get tired and it take and extra morning to install what i made it on me.
Thanks very much for your comments --- all of them.
As far as overhead, I have the entire length of our basement and 2/3 of the width. On larger projects, we park our cars in the driveway and I take over our 2 car garage. I'm paying "us" $300.00 a month for rent, utilities included. So, that factors into my lower rates.
Most importantly is that I've just been doing this for a little over 2 years. About every 3 months, I bump what I consider to be my hourly wage up, generally by a bump. It was pretty slow this winter. I was mostly cleaning up projects that had been stalled for one reason or another and doing alterations, so I didn't tinker with my hourly wage until spring time.
I will call around a few places this week, using our cell phone. I did that with alterations when I first started and did that this week with "The" place that does embroidery in town when I was working on my embroidery project bid.
I just didn't realize that rates for upholstery could go as high as they apparently do. With alterations, I've been getting a good reputation. Last two bridesmaids told me that people had told them they "had to go to Virg's" and I know I'm on the higher end as far as alteration prices go but my work deserves it.
Like I posted earlier, after I've done a certain task once and figured out how to do it really well, I up my prices. Just a lot of this stuff it is the first or second time I've done it so I'm still in the learning curve and figure they deserve kind of a break since I'm using them as my guinea pig. I definitely am down with charging more from the get go. I'll do some local research and see if I can figure out what the going rate is.
I do know that there is one lady here in town, she used to do a lot of car interiors. In fact, my vintage car restorations guy used to use her. She stumbled in aircraft seat restoration. I heard second hand that she gets $1,000 a seat on airplanes and supposedly told this lady I know that because of that she doesn't care if she does another car again. However, she's been in the business for 30+ years so I would expect her to be pricing substantially more than I do.
Gotta get after it. Lots to do today.
Thanks again for the feedback everyone. Very much appreciated!
I charge by the hour. I've worked piece rate and I've been paid by the hour in someone else's shop. My father always used to say, "stock and time and you'll never lose money". It's not quite that simple, however. If I wanted to take home $25/hr. I'd charge $50 hr. to a customer.
I set my hourly rate by figuring out how much I wanted to make to meet my monthly household budget and fund my retirement savings. Then I worked backwards to determine what my taxes would be to achieve it and that gave me my hourly rate. I charge for my labor (hourly rate) and I charge for any materials I supply for a job (zipper chain, sliders, welt insert, fabric, linings, foam, etc.). I have a very good handle on how long it takes me to perform the actual work, but I'm still finding my "level" when it comes to installing things. I'm usually able to spin a good, ballpark labor estimate off the top of my head, but I still like to put pencil to paper on the materials end of things; esp. when estimating yardages for slipcovers or complicated yacht interiors.
I agree that being the "low ball" is the swiftest way to get all the garbage work in your market. I have been shot down a few times on my estimates (usually marine exterior cushions and slipcovers) but I don't get too worked up about it. I know how much work and how long it can take to do them nicely. And I don't want to work on garbage anymore. And I've had the satisfaction of cleaning up botched work for customers who shot down my original price and went with someone else's bid.
Quote from: bobbin on July 16, 2014, 12:30:18 pmI still like to put pencil to paper on the materials end of things; esp. when estimating yardages for slipcovers or complicated yacht interiors.
when I was up in Alton bay starting out Bobbin for a complex multi panel enclosure I used look up the material prices and add it all up then I just did it in my head and added a little extra to cover shipping and a little profit then plus the time if I order for a job I get the invoice total for materials so I just figure the same for similar jobs. I don't have the paitients to look up all the prices anymore used to get price sheets now nobody has then you have to log in yo a website and search for the part then the price even harder . I don't like ordering online either I like to talk to a person and no for sure where it going to ship from ect
When I say, "put pencil to paper" it's not so much about pricing as it is figuring the yardages required for various projects. I like to give a yardage requirement for a plain weave fabric and then make myself available for an amended yardage if they select a pattern with a larger repeat. I have a better "handle" on foam requirements, but I still like to plan the layout because doing so often allows me to make better use of the rolls.
I spent most of my years in the marine field working for other people and they were the ones who calculated the amount of fabric required. I just "did the work". I'm still pretty new to slipcovers and I'm more comfortable working out a layout on paper (and undisturbed!) than I am spitting out a fabric quantity that really is more of a guess than anything else. As for the basic materials I stock, I know exactly how much they cost and those stock items are entered into my bookkeeping/inventory program so when I bill they just "appear" with the correct price. I make money on everything I sell, and I don't "guess". When I have to reorder I simply check to see if the retail prices are still correct or if I need to adjust them.
One of my favorite professors used to say, "anyone can turn a profit, it takes a merchant to hold on to it". I've sourced the suppliers. I have the accounts. I pay the shipping. I have all the numbers necessary to achieve a maintained mark up on those items. And as steep as I've found the learning curve of computerized bookkeeping, it works. It's been a struggle for me, but I've stuck with it and it has gotten easier, a lot easier. I never sweat my quarterly taxes and I never have to scramble to close out the "business year". I work with a great bookkeeper, experienced with the program I use, and I get a "homework assignment" periodically; one that requires me to more deeply investigate a facet of the bookkeeping program.
Good point about laying the cuts out on paper Bobbin. I always used to do that (unless it was the same as a job I had done recently) and saved a ton of waste, that I usually swallowed.
Quotelisten to the voice of experience, Darren tried it, it didn't work
You've got a long memory, old friend. In my case: my shop rate ($60/hr.) was not that much lower than the average, where I killed myself was being too concerned about the customers. I'd never include the visit,the free quote,ordering material, running to the hardware store 'cause I needed a ??, etc..., and I always had a hard time with time appreciation. I loved my shop, so all morning felt like it had been an hour when I quoted on the next job---and I'd eat that mistake again because unless there was a "surprise!" I stood by my word.
Ironic that this should come up tonight---my diaper felt it necessary to remind me again today that I was a looser and went broke because I was afraid to charge. He charges for EVERYTHING. If we need to send some one to town for a part we are out of stock on, fueling up the empty shop vehicle on the way to a service call in house, coffee break, talking to another customer, admin. time, etc... That is part of the reason I left my former employer in Kenora went out on my own. They both survive---my name is back on the top of a cheque/ I loath working there.
What I have learned from this is that one has to find balance. TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE. Virgina needs to put Virginia first. As admirable as caring for your customer's wallet is, you need to charge a fair price for BOTH parties. Your a business , not a charity! You don't get 1/2 off at the store 'cause they think you're special. Business is just that --- business.
That said; as mentioned by a couple of the crew---
ease---your prices up. Don't spook the horses LOL.
Best of luck.
a guy who owns a little storage lot had a boat cover stolen the boat was to be shipped to the Bahamas an could I have it done by Wednesday so I gave him a fair price and got a deposit well today I finished the cover he asked if I could have it today and it was he knew id be done well I went into the office to say im done and he said hed have the money tomorrow and I said well I was looking to get it today. well he had bank trouble with a bounced xcheack and he was overdrawn. he was going to find the money well 6 pm he called and had the money that was a first . he felt guilty .
now back to Virginia
Thanks again for all of your input. As I posted before, I've been increasing my prices usually on a quarterly basis. I'm now looking at each new job as far as what price I should charge. I definitely know that I've been undercharging but rationalized that as many times, it was the first time I had attempted it. So I felt my customers deserved a price break since they were my guinea pigs. However, it's been 2 years now and you learn quick in this business : ) also you take knowledge from one job and apply it to the next. So, it's time for me to recognize my own worth.
Having said that, I'm still struggling with how much to charge on the pontoon covers. Guess I'll just play it by ear when they're finished. Should finish one in the next few days so I need to figure something out.
Thanks again!
Virginia
Quoteit's time for me to recognize my own worth
Atta Girl,Virg!!!!! And it's not just about the money. Remember that you're worth as much as anybody else when it comes to how you let other people treat you, and how you treat yourself.
QuoteI felt my customers deserved a price break
I've never had my mechanic knock $10 off the bill 'cause he had to answer the phone or nature. I did so many favours/breaks/whatever you want to call it that my customers now have to got to someone much more expensive and I am stuck existing out here. Be fair---but fair to yourself as well.
And that " I'll make it up on the next job" is a myth. At least I kept on shooting myself in the foot to be nice to them on the next job too.