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General Upholstery Questions and Comments => General Discussion => Topic started by: slow96z on April 09, 2014, 09:44:45 am

Title: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: slow96z on April 09, 2014, 09:44:45 am
Hey guys, it's been a while, I hope everybody is doing well!  I'm back and with an old issue that I need to revisit as it's keeping me from finishing the welt on an awning which needs to go camping this weekend.

I have a Singer 111w101 and have made every adjustment I can think of, from adjusting the shaft position of the hook gear to adjusting tension on the top thread and I still get this issue.  If I run the machine by hand, the top thread does fine, but as soon as I put some power to it, almost regardless of speed, I get freying on my top thread at the needle.  Eventually it nicks the thread fibers enough that the thread breaks and I have to back up and start over where the issue began.  I thought it might have been from burrs on the throat plate so I pulled it, re-drilled the hole and polished it top and bottom so I know that's not it either. I was able to live with it on my last project, but now it's doing it about every foot of sewing.  Any theories or ideas?  I really appreciate any help you guys can give!

(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy16%2Fslow96z%2FUpholstery%2Fphoto1_zps4e473a5f.jpg&hash=3826e279976bb6a6902e39f82e4dc0c1) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/slow96z/media/Upholstery/photo1_zps4e473a5f.jpg.html)

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: sofadoc on April 09, 2014, 10:55:39 am
Did you set the stitch length at zero while you adjusted shaft position of the hook gear? Sounds like timing. The hook isn't passing in front of the needle at the right point.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: babock on April 09, 2014, 12:27:13 pm
Which side of the needle are you threading through and which side of the needle has the groove?
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: slow96z on April 09, 2014, 12:38:33 pm
I did not set the stitch length to 0, not really sure there's a 0 on the dial, but I'll look.

The thread is going from left to right and the grove is on the right side of the needle, where the hook can grab it.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: sofadoc on April 09, 2014, 12:54:48 pm
Even if there isn't a zero on the dial, set the stitch length at the lowest possible setting. Then adjust your hook point.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: slow96z on April 09, 2014, 12:57:51 pm
Oh, ok.  Yes then, that was done.  I set it at its lowest point a long time ago, but last night I bottomed out the cc screw and then put the bb screw back on top so it's as low as it can go.  This was done before the adjustment party.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: Darren Henry on April 09, 2014, 04:37:22 pm
No experience on the W101 ; but I know that on the W155's and their clones, the hook can be adjusted left and right and if it is too far away from the needle you can have this issue.It has to be almost deflect the needle kinda close.

I know this is going to sound flakey; but make sure the thread path through the needle is clear and that the needle is appropriate for the thread. If you have picked up some gunk, or what ever, the thread cannot pass through the needle and eye fast enough to form the loop for when  the hook gets there.

Failing that It's timing. I have no training on sewing machine repair ---but necessity is a mother, so I have figured out a few things. I pull the bobbin out so I can see and run the needle to bottom dead centre . I then advance with the handwheel until the hook and needle meet and adjust accordingly.

Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: JuneC on April 09, 2014, 06:41:14 pm
I have a bogus welt foot that does that.  The hole in the foot is not centered correctly so the needle rides too close to the foot.  This chafes the thread and it breaks.  I suppose I could drill it out larger and polish, but I just bought another one instead.  Check the needle/thread path through everything it has to penetrate to make sure no parts are shredding the thread or hooking it.

June
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: west coast on April 09, 2014, 08:58:27 pm
Is the needle nicked? Try changing the needle and see if it helps its hopefully something simple like that.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: slow96z on April 10, 2014, 06:46:05 am
It happens with new needles so I don't think it's that, and I did most of my boat without it ever happening, including using the same foot, but I drilled out the foot last night just to be sure.  Still happened.  I can now see that when the needle goes down and through the canvas when it comes up it has a wrap of top thread around it and that's what breaks- like it's the point of the needle snagging it when it makes this loop.  I ended up finishing the awning with my house machine and a welt foot that it has, but I really need to get my "good" machine up and running again.  I just don't know what would cause that wrapping other than timing.  At what point in the groove of the needle does the hook need to intersect it?  The thread hole is way at the bottom of the groove and my hook is intersecting the needle towards the top of the groove on the upward stroke.  Does that sound right?
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: brmax on April 10, 2014, 09:19:36 pm
It should be in the center of the cutout section of the needle just above the eye, I believe the hook should be a couple paper thickness's away and at this same time the deflector is first to hit anything "if" touching. Sometimes theres marks on the needle bar as a guide for height setting, though singers were used in several sewing types and multiple marks are possible on some. But usually when the needle comes off the bottom BDC a mark might line up on the needle bar and it might be at around .080 of an inch off the bottom. This probably sound to some like I stayed in a hotel last night, but don't fret.
maybe the hook cover fell on the floor got a nick and when the thread passes over the top of the bobbin latch each revolution it gets cut.
Good day
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: ajlelectronics on April 11, 2014, 04:06:04 am
Quote from: slow96z on April 10, 2014, 06:46:05 am
  At what point in the groove of the needle does the hook need to intersect it? 


It isn't the groove that the hook uses. Is it possible the needle is back to front? The long groove faces away from the hook, the flattened section just above the needle's eye is the scarf, where the hook should be meeting the thread.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: marko69 on April 11, 2014, 01:18:00 pm
I've been fighting a similar problem for 3 days now.  Ultimately, the problem was the hook not close enough to the needle.  It looked close enough but it wasn't.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: Toledo Mach. Sales on April 15, 2014, 04:22:38 am
Try pulling some thread through the needlebar thread guide & see if it cuts it.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: slow96z on April 15, 2014, 06:43:53 am
My needlebar thread guide is pretty questionable, as the thread usually starts off behind it but then comes out after a few stitches and just flops around.  It's not cutting the thread, for sure.  I noticed last night that there is a guide right after the check spring that has a groove worn into it from the thread, I wonder if that is causing the issue.  I added tension to the check spring, switched to a non-bonded poly thread and did a test piece practicing french seams, which went through without breaking the thread, but I think I have a tension issue somewhere because the machine would sew perfectly by hand, and hum along at low to medium speeds, but at higher speeds it would eventually cause big blobs of thread on the bottom side of the material.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't ust take it to somebody for a full tune up, but budgets are tight.  Anybody in Houston that you guys can recommend?
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: JuneC on April 15, 2014, 03:28:44 pm
I'd check the entire thread path for grooves.  I've had to change my top thread guide (the small rod on top of the machine with the 2 holes in it) because it had sharp grooves, my tension post (right between the discs where the thread had just about cut the post in two) and also on one machine, the lever that held in the bobbin had worn a depression in the bobbin case.  This caused the lever to stick up too high where it was hinged, (think head down, ass up) and as the top thread passed over the bobbin case, it would catch on the hinge and start to shred.  That one was very intermittent and difficult to figure out.

June
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: ishkish on April 19, 2014, 04:21:42 pm
I have a Consew 105 that was doing the same thing. I had the stitch length too long for the material
I was trying to sew. I was sewing vinyl and trying to do it at 4-5tpi. Machine liked 8-10 tpi.
Hope this helps'
Jerry in NJ
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: forsailbyowner on April 20, 2014, 04:12:39 pm
My adler was driving me nuts like that and a new hook fixed it.
Title: Re: Thread issues on Singer 111w101
Post by: slow96z on August 17, 2017, 11:59:05 am
I know this is an old topic, but it is mine and I wanted to update it in case somebody finds it searching for their own problem. 

My machine had a couple of problems that were causing this issue, but the main one was the spring after the tensioner was adjusted so high it wasn't holding resistance against the thread at all.  Also, the walking foot was somehow a little off center and that was causing the material to push back ever so slightly towards me every time it came down and contacted the material.  The repairman that found these things also adjusted the presser foot tension and now my machine runs "Like a Singer" -please excuse the expression...

I hope that helps somebody having the same issue.