Ok here is an important interesting topic: Are you guys hiring any young people to take over our trade when we are gone. I think this trade is going to disappear when we all move on to a better world, life, etc.. I have not seen any young people getting into this field in years...
No. And my son didnt want to learn.
We live in a world of instant gratification now.
Nobody wants to spend years learning a trade. They want to start out making 50 grand, and go up from there. And they prefer to make that 50 grand while sitting behind a keyboard. They're not too terribly interested in schlepping a couch on their back.
The only ones getting into this biz now, are the "mid-lifers" looking for a career change. And that's probably for the best. They are more mature, and have a better grasp of what they should expect for their effort.
The truth is most do start off at $ 50,000.00 - my Children all earn more than I do. I want to retire and go fishing !
SA
Quote from: SteveA on March 05, 2014, 01:20:31 pm
I want to retire and go fishing !
SA
Im trying :)I havnt even fished off my dock in a couple month let alone my boat
Nope. Me neither.
I heard a local investment adviser on the radio last night whilst driving home from work, and he said the good ol' US of A is a service country. We are no longer a manufacturer.
Volkswagen opened a plant in Tennessee because our energy costs are so low compared to the rest of the world. They invited the UAW to represent their workers because they know it won't make a difference. As each year goes by they will be using more robots and less workers.
I'm sure the UAW is looking at ways to get union dues from the robots.
gene
We have hired a few young men in the past few years. Most of them just didn't make it. We have one kid 20s now that is a Vet. He does good work. Hired as a stripper and delivery helper he is doing well and seems to enjoy the work. He does well with cushions also. Cutting the foam, wrapping, and filling. I've had him do a small brass nail job and he did good. He is a good worker. Time will tell if it ends up a carrier for him.
Tried hiring a couple of times, haven't found any one with enough common sense to sort out a simple problem or see when something isn't looking right. Or care's come to that.
Suzi
There was a woman in town who opened a Starbucks-type coffee shop. She hired local teenagers, and paid them $15 hr.
She thought that if she paid them well, they would "care" about their job, and give better effort.
It didn't work. The kids goofed off, and generally played "grab-ass" all night long. They wasted product, and gave away drinks to their buddies. She could've paid them $100 hr. and it wouldn't have made any difference.
A year later, a real Starbucks opened down the street, and put her out of business. And they did so while paying older employees about half as much.
Same with upholstery. You can't find young people that care (but I'm sure that OUR parents said the same thing).
Big franchises don't always have the luxury of hiring who they want. Sometimes there is a commitment to the neighborhood which the store opens in to hire the local folks. Not entirely fair but that's the way it is. I look at retailers like Radio Shack ,Best Buy, and Staples closing stores all over the place they say due to internet sales, but another unspoken truth is that many consumers refuse to patronize the stores due to poor, and unfriendly help behind the counter. Home Depot is on the list but you can't have 2 x 4's Fed Ex to you but that's another similar example of mostly little or no effort by the staff.
SA
Interesting. When I bought a franchise 11 years ago, the typical new franchise owner was early 50s, white male, college graduate with a bachelor's or master's degree, coming from a technical background like engineering or business. That fit nearly every one in my training class, at least those that lasted more than a year.
Quote from: sofadoc on March 05, 2014, 07:40:47 am
The only ones getting into this biz now, are the "mid-lifers" looking for a career change. And that's probably for the best. They are more mature, and have a better grasp of what they should expect for their effort.
Starbucks and Speedway are big enough to offer benefits better than minimum wage.
I am always impressed when I go to Speedway with the level of work that those folks need to do. That is a difficult job.
I read where restaurants are starting to add a surcharge to the bill to pay for the obamacare that they have to provide for their workers.
gene
At the place where I work we have a young man in his mid 20's who is enthusiastic about learning the trade.
Our sewer turns 60 this year. Our female upholsterer is 62. The other male upholsterer is in his mid 30's but will graduate from collage in 1-1/2 years.
When I suggest now might be a good time to train someone it falls on deaf ears.
Besides striping furniture, the young man I mentioned has worked there 2 years and can already tie springs, repair and finish the frames, expert in cushion stuffing, an has upholstered dinning seats on occasion.
One day about 1/2 year ago the boss was looking for another upholsterer. This young man begged him to let him take the position. The boss said fine, he pointed to a Martha Washington chair with wood arms and said, take that chair home, upholster it and its yours. Then the boss said, when your finished let me see it and we will talk.
When the boss left the room I told the young man to bring the chair to my shop and I would guide him through the process. He agreed. The project was completely hands off for me but I explained what to do and the finished product looked pretty good.
When we all showed up for work Monday everybody admitted it was a fine job but the boss ended up hiring the collage guy instead.
When I asked the boss what gives he explained they once trained a fellow to make slip covers. After two years he was getting good and they were helping him get his citizenship into the USA. One day he just up and leaves, headed back to Mexico. They got burned.
I know what you all are saying about the younger generation not wanting to do laborious type jobs but I think also how many employers want to invest the time to train someone and take the chance of loosing him just when hes getting good.
Quote from: kodydog on March 08, 2014, 06:36:22 am
I know what you all are saying about the younger generation not wanting to do laborious type jobs but I think also how many employers want to invest the time to train someone and take the chance of loosing him just when hes getting good.
Great point!! And I must admit, I'm the same way. I don't want to invest any time and money training someone who will just move on.
I've had several people offer to work for free just to learn the trade. But the split-second they "think" they've acquired enough knowledge to strike out on their own, they move down the street, and compete against you.
I can't offer any employees the type of incentives that would keep them loyal and happy, so I just "go it alone".
I'll admit. The outlook for a young man or woman getting into this business is bleak. It isn't surprising that few do.
Lets look at this in another way Guys and Gals,
1. So no one wants to train because the trainee may leave and compete against the trainer. Isn't that just competition?
2. So no one gets trained and all of us oldies get along just fine with little or no competition.
3. Say another 15-20 years goes by and no one is left to do the training. What then. We are all dead and gone and no one really cares?
4. Say we bite the bullet and train some of these young people that want to work and learn a trade.
5. In that same 15-20 years we may now have some experienced young people doing our work and carrying on the trade.
So we had some competition for awhile that's the American way isn't it? But we also taught a young person the trade and didn't let it die.
It's not like I don't understand the comments made about all this. After all we have all been there in one way or another. There is this issue in all trades. Carpentry, Plumbing, Roofing, you name it. But we all do need these trades people to know what they are doing and who better to teach them the correct way but an experienced trades person? Training not only teaches the trade but teaches responsibility, honesty, respect, all things that have seemed to go by the wayside of late.
So please don't be short minded and worry about the competition. It will be there and the customer will make the choice. And who knows 15-20 years from now the person we trained might be better than ourselves and a better person for it.
Paul gets off the podium.
Raucus applause for Paul!!! (whistles, too)
There was an interesting story on NPR this very AM, about apprenticeships and their relevance in this time and age. I met a very bright, ambitious young woman just the other day and her work was great. She has chosen the trade because it suits the lifestyle she wants. She good at it and she markets it well and I'm all for sharing knowledge. There is enough work for everyone who's good at what we do. Competition is good!
When I say that I don't want to train anyone who will just compete against me, I'm mainly referring to the ones who learn a BARE MINIMUM, and strike out on their own.
I'm not seeing anyone who genuinely has the patience to apprentice for several years.
And as I said, I can't offer them the incentives that would keep them loyal and happy for an extended period of time. I just don't have enough work for two.
I come from a town where several sewing, and furniture factories have closed. Many of those employees (who barely knew how to drive a staple) started their own upholstery business. It didn't take them very long to fail.
My step-grandson will soon be old enough to start helping me. He will immediately become the highest paid helper anywhere around. If he shows an aptitude for this work, I would be happy to train him for a career in upholstery. But odds are, he won't.
I understand how hard it can be "compete" against the "back roomers". Boy do I ever! and I know about people who only want to do the bare minimum (I've worked with several over the years), but the more I get out there the more I find talented, dedicated people who're interested in sharing skills.
A trade is not mastered in a series of "classes", as we well know! It take time, patience, and learning how to conquer frustration and keep plugging away that defines success and deep base of knowledge. You have try different things all the time and you have to be willing to fail and then deal with the failure productively. I agree, a lot of people are not "wired" that way, but I think that's partially because we don't tend to reward perseverance at very much.
I'd like to expand on Pauls 's point;
QuoteBut we also taught a young person the trade and didn't let it die.
Cause and effect has killed my former vocation as an orthopaedic shoemaker. That is why I do what I do now and that too has changed since the move here to Brandon.
When I was a lad every town had a cobbler who could fix shoes and larger cities had someone who could make shoes custom made by hand.Because it wasn't a "licensed" trade in Canada they were poorly paid and no one wanted to take up the torch as they retired/died.When I moved to Winnipeg there were 2 shoemakers and 50 some shoe repairs (13 of them within walking distance of the shop I was managing). By the time I had completed my apprenticeship as a shoe maker (albeit unofficial), there were less than 20 cobblers left.When I left the trade there were only 6 places in all of Canada making shoes by hand.average age 60+ and almost all employees were not born here.
catch 22---The service isn't there/people don't use it.People don't use it / the service cannot be there . In our case you come to a point where people don't even know about the service.In our disposable world (at least here in North America) everyone just tosses it out and buys new garbage.
My apprenticeship in upholstery was 5 years---the same as a plumber or a pharmacist. It was my military service that got me an audition for my apprenticeship as a shoemaker,not 3 years experience as a cobbler.
we need to ALL OF US raise John/June Q Public's understanding and appreciation of our trade and teach them to appreciate and pay in league with they're --plumber,designer,mechanic etc...Otherwise we will be repairing garbage furniture , re-stitching rotten canvas, and patching up old car seats from our garage for peanuts until death our trade does come.And the next generation will not want to be part of that.
Rant ends--podium is open again
Another round of rousing applause!
Quote from: bobbin on March 08, 2014, 08:44:04 am
but the more I get out there the more I find talented, dedicated people who're interested in sharing skills.
That's what this forum is all about. I can't tell you how many upholsterers I've worked with who told me when they were learning this skill it was hard to get other experienced upholsterers to show them how.
This blows my mind. I love sharing my knowledge. And when I was learning I was very fortunate to have skilled craftsmen who gladly showed me the ins and outs of upholstery.
I may not be the oldest person where I work but I feel I'm the most experienced. And any time someone needs a little help figuring something out I'll set down my staple gun and give my undivided attention.
Quote from: Darren Henry on March 08, 2014, 09:11:31 am
When I was a lad every town had a cobbler who could fix shoes and larger cities had someone who could make shoes custom made by hand.Because it wasn't a "licensed" trade in Canada they were poorly paid and no one wanted to take up the torch as they retired/died.When I moved to Winnipeg there were 2 shoemakers and 50 some shoe repairs (13 of them within walking distance of the shop I was managing). By the time I had completed my apprenticeship as a shoe maker (albeit unofficial), there were less than 20 cobblers left.When I left the trade there were only 6 places in all of Canada making shoes by hand.average age 60+ and almost all employees were not born here.
...... It was my military service that got me an audition for my apprenticeship as a shoemaker,not 3 years experience as a cobbler.
Darren my father one of his first jobs was working for a shoemaker in Massachusetts.
Later when he was in the navy he ran the shoe shop onboard his ship in the navy.
funny after he got out he worked for a painter who was a pilot on his ship just by chance they met up.
down here there actually is a few shoe repair shop around as well as clock repair shops.
I have gone from 13 employees to 1, me and could not be happier or more jaded. I trained guys and when they finally started making me money they took off. The last two guys both took my last contacts when they left. I will never hire again I will never train anyone again. I was told by an old boss you always train your competition and he was right. I never went and burned my old employer I went into service which he did not do and he was grateful and his boys still treat me well and feed me work. I have a bad attitude for staff now can't stand the idea of hiring anyone anymore call me bitter call me a jerk don' t care. Keep it small keep it all. Rant over
I would call you a typical "small business owner".
And you didn't mention anything about unknown costs, taxes, liabilities, and paperwork involved in having an employee.
gene
I still occasionally have someone watch me work for a few minutes, and say "Hey, that looks like fun! Do you think you could teach me? I'll work for free just for the training".
Most of them think they can just watch for a month or 2, and then they're ready to open their own shop. They're only interested in learning just enough to start making money.
Quote from: gene on March 12, 2014, 05:54:24 am
And you didn't mention anything about unknown costs, taxes, liabilities, and paperwork involved in having an employee.
The employees who take your training, and compete against you usually start from their garage, and they don't have any of those costs, so they can easily undercut your price.
Am I afraid of competition? No, as long as it's FAIR competition. But when a guy gets free training, and then steals your customers, that isn't fair competition.
I just don't think that we live in an apprenticeship society anymore. There are just too many shortcuts.
I'm the grateful beneficiary of several "someones" who were willing "to train their competition". And I daresay, SO ARE MOST OF YOU. (get over yourselves!)
I have had the very great opportunity to work for supremely capable people over the course of many years. Those wonderful people (mostly women, BTW) were open, generous, and supportive. Precisely the opposite of what so many of YOU have shown yourselves to be in this thread. And you wonder why our trade is "dying"? I have no doubt, whatsoever!
Maybe our trade is dying because too many of us refuse to share any of what we've learnt over the years? do ya think?
Quote from: bobbin on March 16, 2014, 11:08:31 am
I'm the grateful beneficiary of several "someones" who were willing "to train their competition". And I daresay, SO ARE MOST OF YOU. (get over yourselves!)
I have had the very great opportunity to work for supremely capable people over the course of many years. Those wonderful people (mostly women, BTW) were open, generous, and supportive. Precisely the opposite of what so many of YOU have shown yourselves to be in this thread. And you wonder why our trade is "dying"? I have no doubt, whatsoever!
Maybe our trade is dying because too many of us refuse to share any of what we've learnt over the years? do ya think?
Might have a little to do with it. Life is sometimes unfair but we must keep trying. Good to hear you've had good mentors.
Are there people today, who would be willing to apprentice for a very meager wage for several years? If so, bring 'em on. The only ones I see around here want to start making good money immediately. I toiled at a near-poverty level while working for my grandparents/parents for over 10 years.
I'm not in a position where I could train someone, while at the same time paying them a decent wage.
I have a competitor in town who hired a couple of trainees a few years ago. It took them an entire week to complete one job. When they were finished, he handed them $100 to split between them. He never saw them again.
Those of you who would be willing to train an apprentice.......how do you handle the money situation? Do you pay them well? Or do you treat them as unpaid interns? Or somewhere in-between?
I don't think that the unwillingness to train is the cause of this dying business, but rather a by-product of it.
I have trained (attempted to) a few relatives and in-laws over the years. They get REAL disenchanted REAL fast when the big bucks don't quickly start rollin' in.
Years ago when I had a larger shop we would hire young people to tear down and make del.
If they seamed interested we would start giving them more responsibility . We would have them start with filling cushion , hand sewing and other simple task. Give them small wage increases as they went to kept them interested . However saying that most of them would not stay with it because it was never enough.(with a few exceptions ) And by the time they started to make you money they would go down the road for an extra 50 cents and hour .
I had a very good friend whose brother drop out of high school and he asked if I could but him to work and teach him something. I invested 2 years in him and one day he came to me told me he needed 2 dollar an hour raise or he would leave . I explained about how much time and money I had invested in him and I would meet him half way , he agreed and a week later he quit.
Since then I am real reluctant about training someone .
Unfortunately its easier and less time consuming to hire someone with experience .
You give entry level people garbage work day in and day out and you think they'll hang around?
Look, I understand that taking on a "grunt" means you're sharing hard won experience with some "low life/know nuthin'". But weren't YOU once a "low life/know nuthin'"??? and not everyone grew up in the business, Sofa..
Point is, most of us sucked it up and applied ourselves. Did I "move on" when offered /.50/hr. to do alteration work? you bet your ass I did! Why? because I was good at doing alteration work and I was polite, well spoken, and "good with" the clientele! AND THE COMPETITION WAS WILLING TO PAY FOR THAT! Duh.
I spent 7 yrs. in marine canvas for my first employer (who wanted me to sign a non-compete agreement). I spent another 13+ with Boss. Did I leave them in the lurch? depends on who you ask, doesn't it?? see where I'm goin', guys? My point is that you want it YOUR way and the practical reality is that YOUR way doesn't pay the bills for the grunts.
Another factor is the growing "entitlement" mentality in our society.
More and more folks expect to get free stuff from the government, etc.
Why should I work hard for 5 bucks when I can get 3 bucks free for doing nothing?
A family friend works in an ER as a nurse. She was saying that a lot of people come into the ER thinking that they should not be sick or hurting. She said they truly believe that they should be able to live their lives the way they want to with no negative consequences. They believe they are entitled to a sick and hurt free life and it is unfair that they are sick or hurting and someone should pay them for what they are having to go through.
It's an interesting issue.
gene
Quote from: bobbin on March 16, 2014, 03:42:05 pm
My point is that you want it YOUR way and the practical reality is that YOUR way doesn't pay the bills for the grunts.
I guess I agree. I'm simply not in a position to pay a trainee a livable wage. So I know that an apprentice would not be happy working for me. And I wouldn't be happy taking advantage of them by paying them slave wages.
I still contend that if the future in upholstery were brighter, this whole apprentice thing would take care of itself. There would be plenty of work to go around, and I could afford to pay a trainee/apprentice.
Sofa,
This isn't really about you and your shop. Don't take it all personal. In your situation and your area they might not be enough business to warrant an apprentice. But there are many parts of this country where there is and when there is there is nothing better than to learn from a seasoned tradesman.
So far I have had maybe 3 or 4 young people working at the shop. My boss pays them a fair wage. If I run into another 3 or 4 and one ends up liking it enough to be an upholsterer I would feel great that I helped them in their career. Even if they don't or they move on at least they learned something.
To restate what I think I may have said above who knows at this age LOL, Not all young people are like we here have made them out to be. Well there are many who are but not all. I think they should have a chance to learn a trade. After all they can't learn one in school any more. Which is a whole other subject no isn't.
Quote from: MinUph on March 16, 2014, 05:30:52 pm
Sofa,
This isn't really about you and your shop. Don't take it all personal.
Sorry if I sounded like I was taking offense. I'm not at all. I'm really trying to understand how different regions approach the trainee/apprentice policy. I think this is a good topic. I wish more people would comment, instead of the same handful of us.
I've never had anyone who was genuinely passionate about this trade. And frankly, if I hadn't grown up in the family business, odds are I would've chosen a different path myself. But that can probably be said for all of us. There was some twist of fate in our life that led us to this business.
"I wish more people would comment, instead of the same handful of us"
You have good responses - I've counted 11-12 folks are here contributing !
Anyway - up here in the NYC area it's tough for a small business that plays by the rules. What I see more of here is either a husband /wife duo grinding out a living mostly under the radar or an accomplished upholsterer (now running a business) who has the larger shop / 10 employees and works primarily for insurance and decorators.
Encouraging young trades folks is not all that simple. After all - carry furniture, breath pollutants, and eat lunch in 5 minutes is not in their agenda.
SA
When I think way back to my apprenticeship (mid 80's) I remember working for $5 an hour. I was working manufacturing and after two years I approached the supervisor about a 50 cent raise. I worked hard, came in everyday on time and learned as much as they would let me. The boss told me to get my production up and in 6 months he'll see what he could do. 6 months later nothing happened so I went to the competition who built the same type furniture and applied for a job. They hired me at $2 an hour more. I felt bad that they gave me a chance and invested the time in me but I felt if they wanted to retain their investment they needed to show me by giving me compensation.
I'm sure most folks here have a similar story. There were plenty of times I wanted to call it quiets and find something easier to do. I'm now glad I didn't. It's tough staying in this business. Most careers are the same way. You have to start somewhere and usually it's at the bottom. If you work hard and have a good attitude someday you'll find yourself at the top.
Never stop learning and have the nads to take chances.
Quote from: bobslost on March 16, 2014, 01:45:25 pm
I had a very good friend whose brother drop out of high school and he asked if I could but him to work and teach him something. I invested 2 years in him and one day he came to me told me he needed 2 dollar an hour raise or he would leave . I explained about how much time and money I had invested in him and I would meet him half way , he agreed and a week later he quit.
Bobslost I have the same situation in my own shop. I hired a young man to work in my shop. His father has a 9th grade education and he followed in his footsteps. I considered taking him under my wing and show him a few things. But after a few months I learned this fellow has no intentions of making his life better. His biggest ambition is to get a "professional" job at Walmart. I'm pretty sure he couldn't fill out the application.
.
WERE I WAS IN RURAL NEW HAMPSHIRE I saw no upholstery shops m im sure there was some, there were only a half dozen canvas shop competing but we were all spread around the lake in there own sections. heck there wasn't even a traffic light till after I moved out. here in SW Florida there are many canvas shops in my area one is canvas and home upholstery and I know of about 6 stricktly upholstery shops. it took a bit of time to get over the other shop and accept thet there is plenty for everybody here. as far as apprentices ive never had one. after I had a strike my son came to florida with the idea to learn the trade but he didn't last a month even didn't care to learn or show any intrest I don't know what he was tinking before he came
I think we all understand that it takes a certain mindset to mesh with a "trade". And not everyone is "wired" that way! You have to be interested in "making" things. You have be reasonably mechanically inclined. You have to be interested in "forensics" (taking things apart, noting how they were put together in the first place, and willing to fuss over putting them back together neatly).
I consider myself very fortunate to have had teachers who recognized a talent and a willingness to "suck it up" and suffer the learning curve mastery of a trade requires. They were unbelievably patient with me... I was always on time, but my attention to detail was wanting at the outset of my tailoring/alteration career! My teachers knew when to give me a more difficult assignment and they also knew how to return substandard work to me with useful criticism (helpful, not demeaning) and a sense of humor that helped me laugh at myself and understand the need for greater attention to detail. I think that is too often lacking when training a newbie, and its oversight quickly turns off a young person. Especially, in an age of immediate gratification!
I really do understand and appreciate the difficulty of paying a rank beginner a living wage. Let's face it, our trade is built on the mistakes. And since time is money in the trades, mistakes become costly in pretty short order! The guy who wanted me to sign a non-compete knew considerably less about proper sewing technique and machinery than I did, frankly. He was stunned when I told him there were 2 ways I'd sign any such thing (no way and no -uckin' way) since doing so would only hobble my ability to pay my bills. I'm certain he had plenty to say about me after I left his employ, but after 7 yrs. he probably learned as much from me as I did from him. I gave Boss a full 2 mos. notice and I gave it at the beginning of "slow season"; plenty of time to find a replacement grunt. I didn't owe either one anything more.
To all facing a similar dilemma with a non compete contract . Check with an attorney or there are some free legal aids you can find online . In most states they are not worth the paper there written on . No one can stop you from making a living and unless there some kind of a trade secret or design owned by them , they can not stop you from going to work for a competitor or opening a business down the street. You own your set of skills and experience and thats how we all pay are bills.
QuoteI don't know what he was tinking before he came
I would guess that he loved his Dad. You stepped in for your's on a project you didn't even believe,remember.
I spent the last 9 or 10 weekends of Dad's life ( including hunting season) sleeping on what they had in the palative room for a cot and "co-ordinating" things between him and the hospital staff,looking after his trailer,and kinda being his "manservant". Pretty much what he had done for mom at home,all those years, after her chemo and "stuff" . She wasn't even pleasant to him some days.
This might be a lead for some business leaders here looking to get a helper, if they get interested great. Im sure you will enjoy some parts of there work, your the Boss.
Some areas with Schools in proximity to walking" laugh" might still offer programs of some sort. I am sure they didn't get rid of all of them, its probably a hassle because I was in the programs from 9th grade thru my senior graduating class.
They had different names like trades and industry, etc. I don't know the paticullar of funding but somehow fed Im sure was the lead, they paid quite a bit of the salary.
I had friends with parents of business of different types and this was a norm for a lot of them, this was or I thought common as 3 different class types like this in my high school of buss, agr, building industry. Somewhat small town with 2 high schools with 580roughly in my class.
So we could ask around this week for new information on these types of programs
this is an option, good day everyone
My youngest a senior just walked in so I ask if there was this type of program and the brilliant response, yes Career Connection!
When I was in school it was called Industrial Arts. Which consisted of shops for metal, wood, printing, and drafting. I took them all. Some from 7th to 12th grades. I loved it. From what i understand most if not all of these types of classes have gone by the wayside. I don't know why other than the perceived perception that everyone needs to go to college.
We had a "Vocational Arts" department at our high school. Metal Trades, Electronics, Radio & TV Repair, Auto Mechanics, and Upholstery. It was in a state-of-the-art separate building on an adjoining campus.
They dropped funding for those programs after about 10 years. The reason was that they tracked all the students for 5 year after graduation, and almost none of them were still involved in the trade for which they had been educated. So they just couldn't justify the cost.
I wonder how many of those use what they learned in everyday life though.
As Dennis mentioned I think that testing and measuring somehow says what is or not being used enough in the area of training. What is the saying take a horse to water but you cannot make them drink!, I just know for a fact the English comp, calculus, biology teachers were glad I was is the other electives. Now I was lucky to have married a smart lady and my young ones seem to enjoy the mentioned classes. figure that? I just keep paying for the ap classes happily
Hey have a good Friday everyone
BRMAX:
Funny you should mention AP classes. My wife, a math teacher is the department chair at a private high school. She teaches all the AP math classes as she is the highest degreed math teacher in the school. The same holds true for all the other AP classes. The highest degreed teachers ( typically Masters or PHD ) teach the AP classes.
(Being a private school with an immense focus on education versus extra curricular activities 90 % of her students are college bound after graduation. Hence the popularity of all the AP classes they have at her school. They are great primers for college bound kids.
Myself I nearly slit my throat when taking Algebra. I hated math with a passion. My worst subject by far.
Chris
I hated science that had math equations, the only time I ever got a F
Guess I'm the outlier. I have two sisters that are five and nine years older than me. I remember my dad spending every evening with them when they were in Algebra. I got there and wondered what the problem was. I ended up with bachelor's and master's degrees in theoretical math.