I'm decided to do some boat seats in a Progression speedboat/performance seats. My first attempt ended with a skin that was too tight and had way too many wrinkles. I am thinking of sectioning it a bit more, make sure it will lay nicer. I wanted to get some opinions though to make sure the second attempt goes better... Does anyone sew up certain sections first, to see how it's going to come together? ...or? The biggest problem was after I put the skin on was getting the arms to pull over, makes me to think the back section measurement was too tight etc. Bucket seats have always been a challenge for me but I'm not giving up.
Thanks for any advice,
Ed
Pictures might help.
With bucket seats tighter is usually better. Because there is not many places to "tack" you need to reply on a snug fitting cover.
adreed tight and heat
Here is a link to some Progression seats for sale. If you scroll down, you can see these skins are not fitting real tight. I am just wondering if I should go with the measurement as they are, and leave the 1/2 inch seam allowance alone? Just thinking out loud, maybe taking the seam allowance in on the back panels and outer side panels screwed me up? Maybe go get a roll of polyester and lay it on to smooth it out a bit if need be...? Also, They used a foam back vinyl on the original skins.
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?168482
IMHO, those skins are too loose. Are you trying to get your skin on with heat and/or silk film?
Doing a seat like that I typically will pattern and sew the middle sections first just to verify that my pattern for the inside arms are correctly sized and shaped. Especially when you're doing tuck and roll stripes, if you're 1/8" off on each tuck and you repeat that 4 times, you're off by 1/2".
June
To your questions Ed, yes every component needs to be checked before moving to subsequent join work.
On your work you talked about (not the pictures in link), just perform checks on the center piece and when it passes the mustard, move to the adjacent piece. Check the arm alignments (inside arm) and look at it rationally to determine how things are lining up and fitting where they go. Carefully unsew the inside arms and make sure which direction needs to be larger and same smaller. Think a bit which way the stretch should be layed for the best fit. It can be very beneficial to use the stretch properties to your advantage.
Regarding the link, it was noted that there are pieces that were cut to large, one example in the arm top band. That would be easy to check after getting the pleats to lay straight (vertically and horizontally). Then, you know the next step; the arm bands (boxing if you will). The seat cushion is to be looked at after the inside and outside back are correct, probably not until.
Direction of stretch is pretty much as important as anything for each individual panel.
Take your time and give thought to the process and it can become fun.
Doyle
Hey Ed,
Yes the pieces are too large on the majority of the skins. The sewing is also a bit stretched in places. When you make your patterns be sure to use registration marks and when sewing make sure they line up. Stretching vinyl is very easy to do when sewing. Foot pressure on the machine can also cause this.
With the roll and pleating remember, sew foam will not stretch the fabric is pretty stable but the vinyl will causing the puckering your experiencing. I would venture a guess that the vinyl for this was cut with the stretch going vertical. Generally this would be across the goods. Better allow the non stretch to be up and down so the puckers will pull our when the over is installed.
Once you cut down the patterns to make them fit tight you may need heat to help with the install. One little trick I use when working with this sort of cover is after sewing your 1/2 seam cut the excess welt vinyl away leaving about a 1/16" from the sem. These will lay better and it won't come apart.
Also when installing the covers like the seats pictured. Pin the centers in place and stretch to the end to fill out and take the stretch out before doing the rest of the front section. In general this is how all upholstery should be applied working from center and taking out the stretch before doing the rest.
Hope some of this helps.
Here are some actual pictures of what I'm working on. The top of the seat is slightly different from the ones online because they are an older design which I am doing more like the updated ones.
A lot of good advice, I am going to work very carefully from the inside out. I have some super sticky basting tape from sailrite that I may employ to keep things in place and get the best possible measurements. I think your right about the stretch, but the measurements probably need to be more consistent and better overall
Thanks for the tips, I know this shouldn't be an issue for me at this point but these seats are tricky for me. I will put some pics up when I get the inside section done. And I am going to go very slow...
Ed
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi544.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh357%2FHighvelocity123%2Fth_progressionboatseat116.jpg&hash=d4e8388418769ce8edf947d6816605fe) (http://s544.photobucket.com/user/Highvelocity123/media/progressionboatseat116.jpg.html)
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi544.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh357%2FHighvelocity123%2Fth_progressionboatseat117.jpg&hash=e2e95556d513be4aa77913120f95ada5) (http://s544.photobucket.com/user/Highvelocity123/media/progressionboatseat117.jpg.html)
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi544.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh357%2FHighvelocity123%2Fth_progressionboatseat118.jpg&hash=a3144fc3f85138475916f9313c7c663f) (http://s544.photobucket.com/user/Highvelocity123/media/progressionboatseat118.jpg.html)
QuoteI have some super sticky basting tape from sailrite that I may employ to keep things in place and get the best possible measurements
Just a thought--- How hard would it be to modify the frame to accept a listing or pull vertically where the inside back meets the inside arm? Sure you'd have to attach it in stages as you roll the outside back down, but it should buy you some "forgiveness",no?
Steam out that foam before you start.
Quote from: MinUph on November 17, 2013, 09:44:19 am
Steam out that foam before you start.
Very important. Makes a huge difference to the end result.
Suzi
Daren H,
I read what you wrote very carefully, and your idea should work and co-inside with the inside out technique others have mentioned. I am going to start again on this tomorrow, just going to do the back and inside arms, then stop, I'll take some pictures.
The funny thing is, when I look at this job, it looks so straight forward, like it should be easy...lol
I will hit it with the steam good though before I try to put it on.
Ed
Nothing straightforward about that seat at all....
Here's what I've also seen done in some wrap-around bolsters like that: the lower, center seat back is a separately upholstered board that gets screwed to the seat back AFTER the headrest and arms are done. The headrest and arms are pulled and stapled to the seat back. Then the upholstered board is installed with screws, deep in the seams, that attach it to the back. No wrinkles. The 33' Hydrasports helm seats are done similar to this.
June
those are some awful examples ive seen and to diplay S WHAT YOR PAYING FOR lol
as seen when you have a while seat and contrasting piping as the blue shows you see every inperfection. I like to kep it white. but I did do white with red once on my sutphen but you have to be real fussy with it
You know what's kinda crazy too is, Proggression uses webbing and snaps to keep the skins on. I told this customer I may not be able to use the snaps approach, he was ok with it. I am not completely sure why snaps, I mean why not just take the seats out and store them inside for the winter. I wouldn't want to take the skins on and off...
ya
I am seeing the light...Finally getting it to lay nice. The sectioning from the inside out is working great. Went real slow and marked every joining piece big! then measuring and cutting to suit for the next section. I am going to do the outside arms and back on Friday, I made notes and kept measurements for the second chair so hopefully it goes faster.
Thanks for all the help and encouragement! I will post a finished product soon.
Ed
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi544.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh357%2FHighvelocity123%2Fth_progression003.jpg&hash=0faaf2109ff6004164412c9cef95747d) (http://s544.photobucket.com/user/Highvelocity123/media/progression003.jpg.html)
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi544.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh357%2FHighvelocity123%2Fth_progression004.jpg&hash=52fe7a9c302861bdfc6a798828a40993) (http://s544.photobucket.com/user/Highvelocity123/media/progression004.jpg.html)
Your looking good Ed. Just make sure the outside arms and outside back are just tight enough to make (pull) the front smooth and perfect.
Ed if you made and saved the patterns from this first pass, then you are set to keep on trucking on the second seat - you already are patterned!!! If both seats are the same, the first pattern can be used direct or mirrowed to represent the pattern of the next seat and for as many that are similar. When you have time, inform about the vinyl you used, it looks like good stuff.
Very impressive and let's celebrate with those pictures!
Doyle
Doyle,
Check out Perfectfit.com...Look under "Navigator Marine Grade Vinyl 54" They also have the Carbon Fiber vinyl that I am using for the stripes. The Navigator does have a good robust feel to it, but it's still soft.
Here's a before and after...I have a little more pulling to do on it, but it's way better than the 1st attempt.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi544.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh357%2FHighvelocity123%2Fth_progression005-1.jpg&hash=ae393c554fd71e76637e710eacf76ead) (http://s544.photobucket.com/user/Highvelocity123/media/progression005-1.jpg.html)
Beautiful work Ed, glad to see you are having fun!
I have seen factory work not as nice.
Those seats will have new meaning to you going forward,
Congrats!
Doyle
Nice! If pulling tighter doesn't get you exactly where you want, don't be afraid to stuff the corners with a little dacron. I've also been known to "refresh" the old foam by gluing a layer of 1/4" sew foam (fabric side down) to old seats. The new one looks great though!
June
Thanks Doyle and June... I'm not sure how fast I will volunteer to do another set..lol, but the key is not to give up.
i'd say the new covers are a world away form the first one you did :-) looking really good .
listen to June she is a master, i respect her opinion. Her advice in the past has been worth more than gold :-) . have a look at how the auto boys do seats as well. Youtube or the Hog Ring
I would suggest that if you are using a 1/2" seam allowance stick with it for the second seat but consider going down to 3/8 on the next project as it helps reduce some of the seam puckering around the bends. if you can, snip the SA on bends to give it some relief.
Spend some time making sure all the SA is turned in the same direction, i just noticed the front welt edge on the base cushion might have a kink in it due to the SA. One side up and the other side down ?? you wouldn't notice that on the sides or back.
Steam is your friend, I use a wallpaper stripper with an icebox defrosting nozzle on it so no fancy kit needed..
Nice design change removing that horizontal seam across the inside back insert was a good idea. Stress point to say the least hence the tearout on the old one.
Still could be tighter on the the next ones. But your doing great!
This project brings up an interesting point - seam allowances and keeping them on-track. Most of the seats I take apart have a 3/8" or less seam allowance. With that there's very little control over which way it points. It goes which ever way the seat (stresses) chooses. With a 1/2" or more, you have more control. You can lay it one direction or another and make it stay that way (at least until someone walks on it). On older foam I tend to leave it at 1/2" so I have some control when stapling. I'm interested in other methods since the 1/2" can sometimes show through.
June
I have been known to use some venture tape to hold a SA where I want it :-)
but it can cause a wrinkle if not placed just right
I don't have a general problem with 1/2 inch seam allowances, matter of fact sometimes the wider is more manageable. If a wide seam allowance becomes a problem, for me, it has been in tighter turns - not a problem, merely snip it to what works but only in that area (the width and relief cuts).
Another comment, this thing about plastic welt twisting could enter this discussion, one would have to evaluate their situation regarding this. In my marine and auto work as well, it has been learned, one should be sensitive to sewing the welt too tight. Too tight can cause problems in both these type of seating. I started in the trade before welt was really in vogue, then plastic became used, and now it is seldom used. Newer autos, most don't have any welt.
More current experience is with the new furniture today; which (what I work on anyway) uses plastic core and there are a lot of problems with it. But in repairs and warranty work, you just have to analyse and work with it to get it to best appearance as possible.
Folks say; "If it was easy everyone would be doing it". I don't believe you can put the answer in one can, you just have to evaluate and go with your best thinking for the specific application.
Doyle
Lookin' good Ed. I'll throw out a couple of thoughts though that may help.
Quoteit helps reduce some of the seam puckering around the bends
I was going to suggest that cutting the salvage (either slices at 90ยบ or cutting it away parallel to the seam )makes a big difference.
QuoteEd if you made and saved the patterns from this first pass,
I keep all my scratched/remnant window plastic for this. Easier to store than wooden patterns and "if" you have a blem in the vinyl/leather/whatever, you will see it as you are transfering the pattern.
A little bit of saran wrap where you need the vinyl to slide and a heat gun will cut your bar tab in half :D Oh, those types of seat will still drive you to drink---this will just slow it down LOL.
Fragged,
No offense to the auto seat guys, but I would have to say this type of seat is up another level on the difficulty meter. Really because of the arms, and getting them to lay in the 3 side corners and not upsetting the rest of the measurements. I did a set of auto seats and I can say those stays and hog rings minus the arms, make it way less frustrating.
@Daren Henry After, my first seat last Friday I did have more than one drink...lol
Ed