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General Upholstery Questions and Comments => General Discussion => Topic started by: MinUph on August 24, 2013, 05:23:45 am

Title: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: MinUph on August 24, 2013, 05:23:45 am
What have you guys and gals found that will glue vinyl double welt to itself? We found a hot glue that will do it but it is $1000.00 minimum. Don't need that kind of investment. I have tried a brush on I think it 66 or something that work on one sample but not another sample. I don't like the look of stapling dw on so I need to find a glue that will do the job.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: sofadoc on August 24, 2013, 06:10:03 am
Good question. Like you, I've found that ordinary glue sticks work well on some vinyls, but not others. I recently did a DW job out of recycled leather, and my regular glue sticks worked great. But on more petroleum-based vinyls, you can just pull the DW off with a gentle tug.

Would you post a link to the $1K minimum stuff that you found? I'd like to at least know what it is I'm looking for.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: baileyuph on August 24, 2013, 06:19:14 am
The 66 vinyl to vinyl stuff has been around a long time and worked on some automotive stuff in the past but it sure disfigured the vinyl.  So, I don't use it anymore, have little need for it on convertible tops and such anyway.

For marine, we use the premade hidem and staple. as you would know.

For furniture, don't know what I would do, except look for something that works for marine or?

Doyle
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: ajlelectronics on August 24, 2013, 10:08:25 am
I use high temperature contact adhesive, solvent type.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: kodydog on August 24, 2013, 04:29:06 pm
Quote from: ajlelectronics on August 24, 2013, 10:08:25 am
I use high temperature contact adhesive, solvent type.


I think I can safely say we have all had situations like this. I once resorted to Super Glue with good success.

With the contact adhesive, how do apply this product. I'm assuming you buy it in quart cans.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: sofadoc on August 24, 2013, 04:51:05 pm
I wouldn't think that contact adhesive would be practical for applying double welt, unless you can feed a narrow line of it through a nozzle.

Besides, with most contact cements, you apply the product to both surfaces, and then put them together. It would be tedious to try to apply adhesive to the back of the DW.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: MinUph on August 24, 2013, 05:36:53 pm
TEdious is better than failure :). I have been searching and read about a product from loctite. Comes in a tube. I picked up one to try on Monday. Will keep you all informed. Keep the ideas coming.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: gene on August 24, 2013, 08:07:13 pm
This may be the time to go back to using gimp tacks?

I've used hot melt glue before. When it works it works really well. I've also used staples after hot melt glue because the hot melt glue was easy to pull off. Staples were very difficult to keep everything looking smooth and level with vinyl.

I've pulled out those 1/4" wide staples, but I've never used them. I wonder if they would work as well as gimp tacks? It would take a new gun and I wouldn't use it enough to really want to buy one.

gene
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: Bob T on August 25, 2013, 07:10:31 am
You may get more answers here: http://rhadhesives.com/hh-66-vinyl-cement.html
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: byhammerandhand on August 25, 2013, 08:35:42 am
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi331.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl463%2Fbyhammerandhand%2FIMG_6801.jpg&hash=e67f294c75b10aa53ad028f0ec4a0ec7)

The 1/4" (AKA narrow crown) stapler that I have uses 18 ga wire, the same as my brad nailer vs. the 22 or 23 ga. for upholstery staples.  I think they'd be a lot more conspicuous.   I use NCS for putting 1/4" panels on the back of cabinets, going through multiple layers of leather on the bottom of recliner footrests, assembling boxes, etc.

Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: sofadoc on August 25, 2013, 10:29:16 am
The narrow crown staple works great for anchoring double welt at corner turns. The bend in the welt serves to hide the staple perfectly. But on long straight runs, every staple would leave a noticeable "dip". You have to have some form of adhesive for long runs between turns. And like Paul points out, some vinyls just don't adhere well with hot glue sticks.

The stuff that Bob T linked will probably do a great job. But applying it will be tedious. It doesn't tack instantly like hot glue. But like Paul says, "Tedious" might be his only option on this particular job.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: Miami Mike on August 25, 2013, 10:49:47 am
HH 66 was made to glue / weld vinyls together.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: MinUph on August 25, 2013, 12:09:55 pm
Quote from: Miami Mike on August 25, 2013, 10:49:47 am
HH 66 was made to glue / weld vinyls together.


Hi Mike,
  I know it is made to weld but it doesn't bite some vinyls I have tested. Do you have anything that works?
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: ajlelectronics on August 25, 2013, 01:18:30 pm
Quote from: sofadoc on August 24, 2013, 04:51:05 pm
I wouldn't think that contact adhesive would be practical for applying double welt, unless you can feed a narrow line of it through a nozzle.


What's wrong with a cheap artist's paintbrush? That's what I use for applying it. Five minutes, whilst you do something else and it can be just pressed together.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: MinUph on September 05, 2013, 06:00:16 pm
Contact adhesive doesn't work on this stuff. If peels off like water.
Haven't tried the laundue (sp) mix yet.
  I found a product called vinyl to vinyl adhesive made by permatex and it works fairly well. This product works on one of the two jobs we have going. The other vinyl works better with the 66 stuff. This vinyl to vinyl from permatex doesn't work at all on this other vinyl.
  Which makes me realize there are reasons for this DUH. Some will actually work with hot glue some with one type of adhesive and not others. There must be a way to get this down pat so I don't have to experiment with each type of vinyl.
Title: Update - Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: MinUph on April 22, 2014, 05:45:47 pm
Well I finally got some sample sticks in a couple of weeks ago from Gluestick.com and today I tested them. One was a little better than our normal hot glue but not good enough and the other was a brownish ruff stick I was hoping for positive results but again no good. Se we are still going with the permatex product on this job. Very time consuming squeezing a little on and taping it together. But it holds when cured.
  Not giving up!
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: JuneC on April 23, 2014, 06:25:49 am
Quote from: ajlelectronics on August 25, 2013, 01:18:30 pm
Quote from: sofadoc on August 24, 2013, 04:51:05 pm
I wouldn't think that contact adhesive would be practical for applying double welt, unless you can feed a narrow line of it through a nozzle.


What's wrong with a cheap artist's paintbrush? That's what I use for applying it. Five minutes, whilst you do something else and it can be just pressed together.


Best method I've found for getting bulk adhesive on a seam allowance is a hairdresser's hair color bottle.  The local Sally's Beauty Supply sells these squeeze bottles for about $2.  They're soft so your hand doesn't get fatigued laying a long bead of glue.  The nozzle is a perfect size for most liquids.

June
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: otlass on April 23, 2014, 07:54:00 am
Maybe the 1099 from 3M? I had good luck gluing Vinyl to Vinyl with it. I learned about it at the leather workshop offered by Coachtrim. MSC Supplies sells the glue.
Good Luck
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: bobbin on April 23, 2014, 09:18:59 am
June, that's brilliant!

HH66 is really good stuff, but it's a pain to apply with that crappy little brush. 
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: MinUph on April 23, 2014, 03:48:32 pm
The hh66 worked on ne vinyl I tested but not another.
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: chrisberry12 on April 23, 2014, 07:47:44 pm
Hi everyone,

I used to work for a company the made custom Swiss Watch displays so we needed glue that would withstand high heat and glue vinyl to vinyl. We used super glue and two part epoxy. the two part gives you work time and if you just use a little bit there is no mess. You can use t-pins to hold in place till the epoxy sets. will take a little time but works great. You can also look into 3M double sides adhesive tape, they worked excellent also. You can also try the fringe glue from Rowley. and lastly it does not hurt to try Titebond wood glue and pin into place till it sets. I know Marcellus Casket used this technique and I know of a furniture maker that uses the same. What about adhesive for Vinyl tops? Landau

Good Luck and let us know what works

Chris
On Island Upholstery
Title: Re: Gluing vinyl to vinyl
Post by: Darren Henry on April 25, 2014, 04:41:57 pm
In my former life we ran into a sole for Red wing boots [we were their repair depot in Winnipeg] that we could not get to adhere. after much R&D we found that HH66 was the only one that worked.

I carried that and the wisdom of how to use it to my this situation. I have made divers lift bags 12' X what ever circumference you get from 60" in herculite(aka vintex,etc..) that don't leak at 3 + atmospheres of presser @100 ft.

I would suggest that you wipe the surfaces with alcohol and then throw the instructions out the window.

apply 1 coat to both CLEANED surfaces and allow to dry 1 hour. Repeat. Reactivate with a heat gun and press together .You will pull the vinyl off it's backing before you the faces let go.