Check out this article that focuses on the re-use of products rather the replacement of them. You know, like it used to be.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-circular-economy-20130630,0,515157.story
Maybe what goes around comes around, only in a slightly different way? I think it's encouraging for upholstery shops.
Rich
Thinking back, in the 60's and 70's and even into the 80's there was alot of good constructed furniture around that could be recovered. I used to see pieces at garage sales all the time. But it seems today that all that one could find is cheap Chinese furniture not worth recovering or rebuilding.
Not being in the furniture sector myself my question would be to those of you who are is there still well made furniture out there that can be easily found and is worth re-upholstering ?
Chris
The question was raised "is it worth reupholstering"? Apply this question also "is it worth buying"?
Then, ask yourself "why do consumers in large numbers buy something not worth buying"?
The furniture today sold to the masses is not worth buying, it only works for small people who do not sit and use it all the time. Today, so much furniture is used in a home by more than one family and used around the clock because many of these people are living off unemployment and do not want a job. This style of life often leads to obesity and we all know what that can do to furniture, especially low quality constructed furnitue.
There are furniture manufacturers who can and do build good quality but it is in lower volume because of more than one reason: (1) Consumer prioritories (2) Consumer values (electronics is a higher value commodity these days) and (3) Consumer ignorance (low understanding about what quality is).
Big screens and anything with a phone and a keyboard hooked to it are the values in consumerism.
Doyle
QuoteNot being in the furniture sector myself my question would be to those of you who are is there still well made furniture out there that can be easily found and is worth re-upholstering ?
It's out there Chris, but I don't think I would say it is easy to find. Thrift shops and happen stance on the side of the road are the best bet in my area. I have picked up several antique Rocco and Eastlake pieces on the side of the road for free over the past several years. My guess is they got an estimate on reupholstery and decided to ditch it for a new "top of the line" plywood recliner.
We just lost a local furniture store, still have two major ones left and a couple of furniture rental chains hanging on, for how long I cant say. People in my area are not buying furniture, or having much reupholstered either. I have enough work to last until summers end at this point, but after that? Custom built furniture and accessories are dead also. On the positive side I might have a whole lot more time to devote to the bus project! Thank goodness my wife has a good job.
Unless we re-train America to buy quality furniture, the reupholstery market will continue to have a shrinking client base. It only stands to reason. There is only a limited number of well-built pieces in Grandma's attic left in the world.
Only the strong are surviving right now. My business is better than ever, only because the competition around me continues to fold. I found an old 1960 Greenville YP's phone book. There were 8 upholstery shops.
Now, there's just me and an older man with a heart condition. He does very little.
There was a time when it was nothing to have 2 or 3 fabric/supply salesmen in my shop at the same time.
Now, I consider myself fortunate to still have one monthly delivery truck calling on me.
I hate to be a "Negative Neddy" here........but IMO.......NO......furniture reupholstery is not making a comeback.
Cars, boats, and other needle related trades may be a different story.
I confess to being one of those small people (both me and my partner) who buys furniture at Ikea. It's cheap and it looks good, and being adults with grown children out of the house, it doesn't get any abuse.
I have to agree with Sofadoc, reupholstery is not making a comeback. The problem is that consumers cannot see what is under the foam and upholstery...they don't care about hardwood frame vs. particle board, etc.
The low hanging fruit is the good looking, affordable stuff.
But I'm starting to hear from my marine customers that it's getting cheaper to buy a set of back to back seats (just one example) rather than have them reupholstered.
I've been on ebay and have seen them selling for $600, but suspect that the very low quality vinyl they use will need to be replaced within a couple of years anyway.
Back to back , funny you mention this !! Had a guy call me from a marina asking me to fix a seat seam on his boat. Showed up with a back to back. Didn't like my price . Told him to buy the whole seat new . Just too much time involved.
I would say 'no' also.
I think people do buy what they perceive as worth buying. And cheap furniture is what they perceive as worth buying. Furniture has become a part of the 'disposable' society we live in.
There are still folks who enjoy and can afford quality furniture, but I don't think they are growing in number.
On the other side, look at how many people buy a $4.25 cup of coffee at Starbucks. Is that worth buying? It is to those who buy it.
These are important topics to talk about. It is our future.
gene
The day to day customer is not showing much promise of any change to this throwaway society we live in, but I wonder if the building dissatisfaction with the way we've been messing up our earth will filter down to our industry in time. Landfills are over capacity and replacing furniture as often as Americans do may become something to be frowned on as it is in some circles to drive a big, gas guzzling vehicle or to not recycle.
As they say, it's not sustainable.
Rich
Good point Rich, one would think that what we are doing to the environment will have to be factored into what ever reupholstering evolves into.
Maybe the issue or the subject of the thread could be broken down into two parts?
One part: Is reupholstering old furniture making a come back?
Another part: If the trend of buying new furniture every few years continues will there ever be a recyling value to old furniture?
Wood could be recycled, if not already.
Steel is already an item that is recycled.
Then, that basically leaves old foam and cloth, could it ever have value to cause it to be a candidate for recycling? For the most part, both items are derivative of oil.
Goot thread and points made,
Doyle
A county landfill by us has a small power plant attached to it. They sort the trash according to what will burn and what wont. While we have no recycling program the landfill will burn old furniture, scrap wood and a host of other things.
In one area they have a collection area that is all metal items. In another area is all old appliances. Another has electronics and another has waste oil collection barrels. Several times a year they have an open house where people can bring in hazardous chemicals, old medications, paints, anti freeze, etc. No questions asked. We are allowed 2,000 lbs of trash a year per household. Yard waste is mulched or burnt.
One of my former clients from my corporate days has owned a private landfill in Michigan for years. Starting out small they have a massive operation now. He has a power plant as well and burns methane gas tapped from the landfill. They also do alot of recycling.
I was at the landfill last year dropping off some motor oil and just had to shake my head at all the cheap chinese furniture piled up inside these massive dumpsters heading for the power plant. By the style of it all none seemed to be more then 10 years old. :(
Chris
Do customers who purchase higher-end furniture tend to have those pieces reupholstered rather than buying a new piece? Or do you guys see more Ashley pieces coming into your shops?
I always wonder why someone wants something recovered. Is is because the piece is sentimental or because they think reupholstery is less expensive? Or, is it because they paid a lot of money for the piece and want to keep it?
I don't have customers like you guys. Just curious about what goes on the in real world of reupholstery.
Quote from: DDandJ on July 12, 2013, 11:59:39 am
Do customers who purchase higher-end furniture tend to have those pieces reupholstered rather than buying a new piece? Or do you guys see more Ashley pieces coming into your shops?
I always wonder why someone wants something recovered. Is is because the piece is sentimental or because they think reupholstery is less expensive? Or, is it because they paid a lot of money for the piece and want to keep it?
I don't have customers like you guys. Just curious about what goes on the in real world of reupholstery.
Most of the furniture I recover is low to mid-grade. Like we recently discussed on another topic, there just isn't enough quality furniture being manufactured these days. Purely from a dollars & cents standpoint, most of it isn't worth recovering. Most of my customers opt to reupholster for the purpose of customizing. All the furniture in the big box dept. stores are very "cookie cutter". Very few style/fabric choices. People choose to recover as a form of expression. It's a way to make their home stand apart. They aren't as worried about the "bottom line".
I often tell people who are just trying to decide whether it would be cheaper to recover, or buy new "If price is your only concern, you're better off buying new".
Good points Sofa. Also I try to stress that reupholstery is a one stop venture. A customer can spend days or weeks going from store to store searching for that perfect piece of furniture. Or come to my shop, pick a fabric, and we'll do the rest.
I've been reading this thread and not saying anything. I felt the same when I was in Upstate NY and it is a big reason why I closed my shop up there. I didn't want to lessen the quality to compete. I may have said that before here but oh well Age allows for such things as repeating yourself :)
Anyway. I am working for someone down here and we keep very busy with high end people. Some of the furniture is good some is cheap but they have no problem reupholstering it. They mostly use design firms. We do the labor. And many of the designers will use our fabrics at a discount of course. But it works out for all concerned. Also about 40-50% of our work is our own customers. Repeat and new. So I see this a bit differently now.
I remember 12 or so years ago thinking the business would die soon. Now I wonder. The average customer will always be looking for the cheapest way out but there are still many above average ones that like a piece and want to keep it. So I think it all depends on where you are and the clientele you have will make you feel one way or the other about the business.
The only real problem I see is no-one seems to interested in learning the trade. The youngest Upholsterer we have had is in his 50s. The lack of "learning trades" in the school systems has played a big part in this. Not that I ever saw an Upholstery class if school but learning a trade also teaches quality workmanship. And that follows to anything you see or need in life.
Well I've rambled on enough. I'm no longer a cynic and am enjoying doing Upholstery again.
Quote from: MinUph on July 12, 2013, 07:33:23 pm
Not that I ever saw an Upholstery class if school but learning a trade also teaches quality workmanship. And that follows to anything you see or need in life.
When I was in high school here in Greenville Tx, we actually had a really nice vocational dept. A separate building that housed classes for Auto Mechanics, Metal Trades, Wood Shop, Radio/TV Repair......and yes, Upholstery.
The vocational programs were eventually cut from the budget for a simple reason. They tracked the students after graduation. 5 years later, the # of students still involved in the trades they had trained for was almost zero.
One encouraging aspect......while few young men and women are choosing upholstery as a profession, there are actually a lot of the 40+ age group getting into the biz as a mid-life career change. So maybe the upholstery workforce isn't necessarily shrinking, just changing demographics. And it could be a positive for the trade, with the average newcomer to the business being more mature.
Now thats refreshing news Sofa. Makes sense too.
MinUph, well said. I know there are areas of the country where folks just will not spend on upholstery more than they would for a cheap replacement and if that's your market, then you'd probably believe that it's that way all over.
I trained for a high school Industrial Arts teaching position. I had no idea that the world would change as much as it did. I think it's too bad that this type of education has been totally neglected in our schools. I do see signs that people are starting to realize that a college education is not for everyone. Just look at the numbers of young, college educated people in debt up to their eyeballs with no decent job prospects. Things will have to gradually change, The pendulum will have to swing back to a point where they realize that there is value in learning a skilled trade and maybe along with that will come a desire to pay a little more for quality that will last like it used to.
We'll see.
Rich
When I was involved with a furniture repair franchise, the average franchisee was:
- Male (or a husband-wife team)
- about 50 years old
- from a technical field such as engineering
- college graduate
Quote from: sofadoc on July 12, 2013, 08:17:06 pm
One encouraging aspect......while few young men and women are choosing upholstery as a profession, there are actually a lot of the 40+ age group getting into the biz as a mid-life career change. So maybe the upholstery workforce isn't necessarily shrinking, just changing demographics. And it could be a positive for the trade, with the average newcomer to the business being more mature.
I have always appreciated the school system they have in Australia. I have watched numerous nieces and nephews go through high school and then trade school or University. In this country you go to school through 10th grade. You then decide if your going to go on to college or University or maybe pursue a trade.
If you select the University route you continue to go through high school. If you want to learn a trade then you begin trade school. They have so many different trades you can pursue. Hair stylist, auto mechanic, plumber, electrician, HVAC, diesel mechanic, carpenter, bookeeper, drafts person, etc. Most of these programs last two years and after that many go into their trade and a few start an apprenticeship.
One of my nieces went on to Uni and became a CPA. One nephew has gone on and become an engineer. One became a hair stylist and one is now into auto mechanics.
I believe there are many of these trade schools in the US still but the programs they offer are getting less and less. Meanwhile we have a shortage of HVAC tech's, diesel and auto mechanics.
Chris
Yes for awhile here in the US everyone seemed to think you had to go to college to do anything worthwhile. I remember friends that graduated college and never went into the vocation they studied for. Don't get me wrong. If someone wants to go to college it is great. But for the people that don't want to the trades have always been an honest way to make a living. And something everyone needs. Tradesmen (people LOL) should be proud and we need more to keep the country going.
I think when the high schoolers taking the vocational route became looked down on, they started to shy away from it. Today, two things are paramount-status and money. So you "have" to have a job that others will admire you for, and/or, you have to show others that you have money. It seems to me too few people have a sense of satisfaction from just being who they are and that's a problem.
Rich
I came across this this morning. The author of the book gives reasons for why he believes today's college tuition costs are so high and talks about the reasons why so many have felt the need to go to college even when it was not affordable for them.
Rich
OK, we've established that a main obstacle preventing re-upholstery from making a "comeback" is the fact that so much of the new furniture on the market nowadays is cheap junk.
4 times a year, I take a few truckloads of abandoned furniture to the city dump. Usually a couple of couches, and 4 or 5 chairs and recliners. Stuff that people had good intentions of getting recovered, but for whatever reason, lost interest in the project.
I was selecting furniture from my store room today to haul off next week. It occurred to me that every time I haul old furniture off, ironically it's usually GOOD QUALITY furniture that I'm disposing of. They get the cheap junk recovered, and throw the well-built furniture away. I know......makes no sense. But a lot of people really don't want a couch that weighs more than 2 adults. The cheap stuff is easier to move around, and is always a more up-to-date style.
On another (consumer) forum, a poster said that her saleswoman told her that sofas are designed to last 5-7 years. :o
Quote from: sofadoc on July 16, 2013, 09:06:37 am
OK, we've established that a main obstacle preventing re-upholstery from making a "comeback" is the fact that so much of the new furniture on the market nowadays is cheap junk.
4 times a year, I take a few truckloads of abandoned furniture to the city dump. Usually a couple of couches, and 4 or 5 chairs and recliners. Stuff that people had good intentions of getting recovered, but for whatever reason, lost interest in the project.
I was selecting furniture from my store room today to haul off next week. It occurred to me that every time I haul old furniture off, ironically it's usually GOOD QUALITY furniture that I'm disposing of. They get the cheap junk recovered, and throw the well-built furniture away. I know......makes no sense. But a lot of people really don't want a couch that weighs more than 2 adults. The cheap stuff is easier to move around, and is always a more up-to-date style.
A poorly made product keeps the public perpetually buying replacements.
I'm not going to get on my soapbox on this, BUT, greed is the name of the game today and it's to the point that one has to make a concerted effort nowadays to not go along with it. So, most products are made with a short life in mind to keep I think, not only to keep the profits rolling in, but to keep the economy running. Sad.
Rich
What Rich said..
We have become a throw away society. In some cases it is ok to have this type of furniture. I could never afford myself if I had to pay for my services. So I don't have a problem with others that might not be able to either. Quality furniture is more of a luxury nowadays. Actually it has always been.
I know what you are saying about having to "make a concerted effort not to". It has become near impossible not to buy this stuff.
The part that really gets me is the quality part. No one cares or even know what quality is any more.
Retailers of quality furnitue, made in the USA, have been put out of business at a noticeable rate because consumers opted for he cheaper Asian (foreign ) furniure.
Manufacturing has to build what sells, stuff sells only if consumers buy.
An added point about the economy; most of the cheaply made furniture is sold on credit or a lease arrangement (lease to own).
The current situation adds up; consumers can't afford high quality and manufacturers would go out of business trying to sell more of it. Like has been said, the retailers of higher quality merchandise are the furniture stores going out of business.
Manufactureres are just trying to stay in business. A quality upholstered piece cannot be built and sold for what the popular priced lower quality furniture is marketed for. Consumer values are also playing a major role in what sells. Electronics (computers, phones, and big screen tv) demonstrate that statistic.
What percent are unemployed and/or on social programs today? The number is large, factor that in and the furniture market is understandable. It is the economy!
Doyle
Quote from: byhammerandhand on July 16, 2013, 04:52:58 pm
On another (consumer) forum, a poster said that her saleswoman told her that sofas are designed to last 5-7 years. :o
If the sofas that she's selling are lasting up to 7 years, she must be selling the modern-day version of "High end" furniture. :o
I think I remember a discussion on one of these forums about manufacturers using the term "Lifetime warranty" on their recliners. But the fine print defines "Lifetime" as the life of the chair (usually 5 years)......NOT the life of the consumer.
With all the EZ financing available (example: no payments 'til 2015), I've actually had customers tell me that the couch they bought 2-3 years ago is already at the local landfill BEFORE the first payment is even due.
And I've heard customers complain "That sofa should've lasted longer! I paid $2500 for it!"
NO! $2500 was the sum total of all their payments, including an outrageous interest rate.
The amount of interest paid should not be applied to the (perceived) value of the sofa.
QuoteI think I remember a discussion on one of these forums about manufacturers using the term "Lifetime warranty" on their recliners. But the fine print defines "Lifetime" as the life of the chair (usually 5 years)......NOT the life of the consumer.
So, it'll last as long as it lasts right?
Doyle-You're saying that manufacturers are only reacting to customers who can't afford much and are cutting quality to meet that need. I'm sure that's right, but I think my point is based on the general retail environment where products have to be made cheaply to satisfy the demands of consumers who have bought into the" gotta have what the neighbors have" mentality and the greedy business folks are only too happy to fuel the condition with high level psychological ads that are very hard for many to resist. I think we've all become part of a vicious cycle that has no happy ending for most of us. We're all constantly bombarded with these ads and they must be working b/c they're still coming at us.
Rich