Subject is roughly quoted from a thread on BoatOwners.com. Skipper really writes:
"I'm educated, experienced, and talented at what I do. So why is it that a guy who sews canvas is entitled to charge 4x as much as I make?"
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=151325
Comparing hourly rates is like comparing apples to oranges. Some figure all the overhead into their hourly fee, some don't.
While it might be possible that some high-end stitchers make more than some ambulance chasing lawyers, it certainly isn't the norm.
I've often thought the same thing when calculating a tip for a waiter/waitress. If everyone tipped the amount that a waiter EXPECTS, that waiter would make more than I do. While I consider waiting tables to be a noble profession, the bottom line is.......it isn't a skilled craft. So I'm not going to tip a waiter an amount that would put them in a higher income bracket than my own.
a few of the posters were in favor of the canvas guys others wernt one guy said 3 or 4k for a d0dger, for me a dodger alone just the piece with frames over the bulklhead id never get close to that. I hardly get any sailboats at all most I get are cheap and have there wife try it . one guy said "If its winter, they "can't" work. They have to collect their unemployment, and that's no joke!" I never hace didn't think I even could. has anyone else when the work ran out canvas or upholstery? as far as shop as shop rate I have always had to work in overhead or id not still be working rent, insurance, gas, plus rising material costs and shipping . I had a boater who thought they could make 2 v berth cusions bought some foam at joanns and vinyl marked al over the foam with black marker and cut the foam with a turkey knife with no attempt to cut 90 degrees and straight gave me 5 yards of vinyl and wanted me to cover no zippers supplied and wanted piping top and bottom also I had to piece the boxing to just make it I charged 180 if I had done it id have bought good firm foam sew foam and cut straight and the cost would have been allot more
There's a blurb in this month's Readers' Digest where a guy says that it's not fair that any billionaire who wants to can come into his neighborhood and push around all the millionaires who live there.
I can only imagine how expensive things would be in Maryland if their high taxes hadn't driven off as many of the rich folks as it has in the last few years.
Bread is too expensive because rich folks don't care how much it costs. What?
gene
Quote from: sofadoc on April 15, 2013, 02:24:27 pm
I've often thought the same thing when calculating a tip for a waiter/waitress. If everyone tipped the amount that a waiter EXPECTS, that waiter would make more than I do. While I consider waiting tables to be a noble profession, the bottom line is.......it isn't a skilled craft. So I'm not going to tip a waiter an amount that would put them in a higher income bracket than my own.
Really! Better not let my wife hear you say that, or any of the waiter/waitress's doing apprenticeships and attending trade school in Australia.
Amusing read :)
In my part of the " canvas " world I do not set the prices. My competitors do. Most are large corporations I compete with. I appreciate them setting the prices high and delivering a sh**ty product to the coach owners. makes my job so much easier to sell.
if this guy knew my rates he would flip. I charge by the topper and never include hourly rates. I go by size of topper or awning. It just so happens that my hourly rate works out to be above average simply because the large corp's set a high price to begin with. I have also busted my butt to get production times down by making changes in my processes.
I hit the upper end of my price point so I had to start working on my margins. Through the process changes and buying fabric by the roll it has increased my profits.
This guy bitching about canvas rates would be the first to over charge if he was in the business. The problem with some customers is they cannot see what it all takes to produce what we do.
Chris
Quote from: scottymc on April 15, 2013, 05:37:07 pm
Really! Better not let my wife hear you say that, or any of the waiter/waitress's doing apprenticeships and attending trade school in Australia.
Believe me Scotty, I realize that waitstaff in many other parts of the world (such as Australia) are far more deserving to be well compensated for their services. For the prices you pay there, you expect impeccable service.......and that's exactly what you get.
It's a different atmosphere here. There are a ton of casual dining restaurants that employ minimum wage waiters. In the US, I haven't met very many waitstaff that deserved to be paid better than a skilled tradesman.
Maybe I'm just not eating at the right places ;D.
But as I said before, I consider waiting tables to be a noble profession. If I needed a job tomorrow, I'd be proud do just that.
Please convey my apologies to your wife. I'm sure that she's worth premimum tippage.
Interesting how things are over there. I consider it a diabolical liberty to be EXPECTED to provide a tip, let alone one of the size I gather is common. In the UK, a tip is an optional reward for service which is out of the ordinary. Typically it would be around 10% and although clearly it would be appreciated, it is by no means the rule to add a tip. That having been said, there are a few establishments who have the brass neck to add it to the bill automatically. It doesn't go down well and is a custom loser.
Sofa, you probably would take up waiting tables over here at $25 an hour, dishwashers also get the same. I clean motel rooms for $27.
We only leave loose change for tips if we got real good service, it is up to the the owner of the business to make sure the staff is doing their job up to standard and hire and fire accordingly, same as hiring an upholsterer. I see a flaw in the tipping system that if I was really unhappy with the service I would just leave without tipping and the owner would never know, whereas in a non tipping environment, I would complain to management.
An Aussie friend waited tables in Hawaii for a few years and said to get tips you sometimes had to be an entertainer in the hope of getting a decent tip, or hang around an empty restaurant all night for $5hr, not really fair.
Quote from: Tejas on April 15, 2013, 01:52:25 pm
Subject is roughly quoted from a thread on BoatOwners.com. Skipper really writes:
"I'm educated, experienced, and talented at what I do. So why is it that a guy who sews canvas is entitled to charge 4x as much as I make?"
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=151325
Well, I'm educated (BA in Accounting (now don't laugh ;-()), experienced (7 years in canvas, 22 years in IT Systems Integration (plant floor and warehousing) and as for the talented bit, that remains to be seen. And you know what? I'm driving a 13 year old Toyota, living in middle class America because I can't afford to buy myself a new Escalade etc. etc.... I'm not aware of any custom canvas supplier who's getting rich. except maybe Mojo ;)
As for servers who are making $25 an hour.... sign me up! In this country it's maybe $2 an hour plus tips.
June
June:
I wished I was 30 years younger. I would be making some serious money today. But I no longer have the health or stamina to go after these big business deals. So I control my growth carefully and accept what comes to me along with taking my measly earnings and hand it over to my boss........the wife. If I woukld have known all the money is in marine work I would have done that....lol.. :)
Scotty, the basic wage for wait staff in the USA is $ 2.35 per hour. That is federal minimum wage law for waiters. In a high end restaurant or a busy one waiters can make good money. Same for bartenders. Dishwashers fall under the other min wage law of $ 7.35 per hour ( I think that's the recent number ). They are at the bottom of the totem pole and are typically treated like crap.
Typical tipping for customers is 15 % of the bill. If we get exceptional service my wife and I will tip 20 %. If service was poor much less. During Christmas time we always tip heavy. I never withhold tips if the food is bad. The wait staff doesnt cook it.
I was in Katomba ( Blue Mountains ) with the wife and asked my waitress 3 times for water. I finally got up and got it myself. I was so pissed I told the wife " this woman is NOT getting a tip. She said " thats OK because they don't tip in Australia "....lol
We attended an opera at Sydneys Opera house a week later and ate afterwards at a nice place. The waiter was awesome and I tipped him a normal 15 %. The wife said " you probably now have a best friend ".
I have had horrible service in Oz and good service. Same for the US. But at least in the US I can make my displeasure known to the waiter through my tip. :)
Aussies are shocked at what yanks tip for. Hotel baggage staff, maids at hotels, taxi drivers, baggage handlers at the airports, etc. My brother in law about freaked out at all the tipping that goes on here.
Chris
I worked in Vail in the Rockies in the 80's as a maintenance, I used to have arguments with some customers because they tried to give me a tip and I would say no thanks I got paid to do the job you don't need to do that. I point blank refused to take there money as I found it embarrassing, little did I realize that I was embarrassing them by my refusals.
Most of the places my missus worked at shared the tips with the kitchen hands and dishwasher, there is no busboy that's the waiters job, as far as bad waiters go well like any good business the owner is in charge and the buck stops with him, so if he isn't taking enough interest in who is a good or bad worker then he deserves to lose your business.
I feel the whole deal of paying someone 2 bucks an hour make bosses a bit slack, like they can roster on 2 waiters when he knows there is only going to be enough customers for one, but at 2 bucks an hour why not, in Aus he is up for around 25 bucks with a 3 hour minimum, so the boss has to know his business, it's not uncommon to have the owner of a swish restaurant waiting on you.
My wife loves American because on a good night she picked up $50 in tips, cause Australians tip just like Americans(must have seen it on TV) monkey see monkey do ::)
Do you remember this from a few months ago?
http://rt.com/usa/god-tips-waitress-applebees-272/
Waiters and waitresses following customers outside the restaurant who do not tip, supposedly to ask the customers why they did not tip, seems to be a not too unusual accordance.
gene
Quote from: gene on April 17, 2013, 05:45:50 am
Do you remember this from a few months ago?
http://rt.com/usa/god-tips-waitress-applebees-272/
Waiters and waitresses following customers outside the restaurant who do not tip, supposedly to ask the customers why they did not tip, seems to be a not too unusual accordance.
The pastor in the story uses a very poor analogy. A 10% tithe is meant to be 10% of EVERYTHING you earn. Not just 10% (or in this case 18%) of a bill at a restaurant. If Applebee's was charging the pastor 18% of her total salary, then she would have a point.
Still, I don't agree with a restaurant setting their own tip fees. They charge outrageous prices for the food, and then they expect you to pay their employees' salaries.
I agree Dennis. I wont eat at a restaurant that includes a tip on the bill. That is my business not theirs.
My daughter worked for a brief time for Ruby Tuesdays and many customers would include the tip with their payment when using a VISA card. Ruby's was pocketing some of those tips and some of their wait staff never seen some of the tips.
I always pay cash directly to the waiter even if I am paying with a credit card. Especially at the big chains.
Scott: Why didn't you stay in the USA ? My Aussie relies love America and have a blast whenever they come over. They always leave extra room in their suitcases to take home clothes and shoes. I guess the selection there is not good and if you have large feet shoes can be hard to find. My BIL and nephew both wear size 15 shoes. I guess the shoes and clothes are cheaper here as well.
Chris
I get a tip once in a while. Maybe once a year. On the other hand, I get in $500,000 houses for a job for a store and they ask me if I can fix something else while I'm there and don't offer anything for my time. In the future, I'm going to say, "Yes, it will be $xx, right up front."
Lady this morning had a bill that was $xx.95 with tax. I even had a nickel handy if she wanted to just give me all bills. She pulled a Tupperware out of her kitchen drawer and counted out two quarters, four dimes and a nickel. ::)
I've noticed that any time I hand the customer an invoice in the high 90's (such as $195...$595....$1295....etc.), they round up to the nearest 100. Even the ones who are writing me a check do it. I guess they want to keep the math simple in their ledger. Cool with me.
I think it's funny that when you hand a waitress $60 to pay a $52 check, she will bring you eight $1 bills, in change.
If she brings you a $5 and three $1's, there's a greater likelihood that the three $1's is all that she'll get for a tip.
But if she brings you eight $1's, odds are she'll get at least a $6 tip.
Some of these wait staff really earn their money which is why I always tip well. The BS they have to go through sometimes is atrocious.
I have seen them getting an ass chewing for food quality. Really ?? As if they had anything to do with what was cooked and prepped. Some people can be real jerks when dealing with waiters/waitresses and the way they look down on wait staff really flames my butt.
I wouldn't want the job.
Chris
Sofa, bad luck for the poor girl if she is running short of $1 notes, no offense to you mate, but this is a good example of how hard the job is for them sometimes. The girl may have been doing a reasonable job up until she ran out of $1 bills, she stumbled at the finish line, sounds like they have to major in physiology to make a buck in that game :D
Chris, most things are cheaper in the U.S of A. and we pay way more tax, but I didn't stay there cause I was working illegally and I can only handle the different culture for so long, I love coming over for holidays but it's to dog eat dog for me.
You may like the "pay as you feel restaurant" lentilasanything.com/about/ (http://lentilasanything.com/about/), probably wouldn't work at a steakhouse. :)
Quote from: scottymc on April 17, 2013, 02:28:06 pm
Sofa, bad luck for the poor girl if she is running short of $1 notes, no offense to you mate, but this is a good example of how hard the job is for them sometimes.
I always tip at least 15%, unless I had a really un-attentive waiter. Like Chris, I don't blame the waiter for bad food. But I can't stand it when they practically break their neck to look the other way when I'm trying to get their attention. And I really hate it when I'm held hostage at a restaurant after I'm done eating. When I'm ready to leave, I want my check. Some people make an entire night of eating at a restaurant. Not me. I swoop in.....eat.....and leave.
Stand up, put on your coat, have your wife pick up her purse, head for the door, and see if they come quickly with your check.
Quote from: sofadoc on April 17, 2013, 03:08:16 pm
And I really hate it when I'm held hostage at a restaurant after I'm done eating. When I'm ready to leave, I want my check. Some people make an entire night of eating at a restaurant. Not me. I swoop in.....eat.....and leave.
Quote from: sofadoc on April 17, 2013, 03:08:16 pm
Quote from: scottymc on April 17, 2013, 02:28:06 pm
Sofa, bad luck for the poor girl if she is running short of $1 notes, no offense to you mate, but this is a good example of how hard the job is for them sometimes.
I always tip at least 15%, unless I had a really un-attentive waiter. Like Chris, I don't blame the waiter for bad food. But I can't stand it when they practically break their neck to look the other way when I'm trying to get their attention. And I really hate it when I'm held hostage at a restaurant after I'm done eating. When I'm ready to leave, I want my check. Some people make an entire night of eating at a restaurant. Not me. I swoop in.....eat.....and leave.
Believe it or not restaurant owners and managers try and get the customer in, seated and then out right away after they eat. The more times then can turn a table over with different customers, the more money they make. The big chains are very good at this.
I once had an owner ask me and a client to finish what we were doing and leave. We were actually having a working lunch and going over paperwork and stuff while also having lunch. It was a small place but he had numerous empty tables.
I told him not a problem we would leave. And wont be back again. :) I used to take clients there for lunch and sometimes he would stand and stare at customers after they ate hoping they would get the message and leave. I guess many did what I did and left and never came back. He ended up closing down and going out of business.
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on April 17, 2013, 03:58:01 pm
Believe it or not restaurant owners and managers try and get the customer in, seated and then out right away after they eat. The more times then can turn a table over with different customers, the more money they make.
I always considered myself to be a waiter's "wet dream". I seldom complain about anything, and I'm in and out in 30 minutes. While others may tip more generously than I do, they also sit there and gab all night long.
We used to occasionally eat out with a guy that would ALWAYS complain about the food. The manager would comp his meal, and then he would leave the waiter a huge tip. So technically, HE wasn't tipping the waiter, the manager was. He actually had the nerve to accuse ME of being a chintzy tipper, when he rarely ended up paying for his own meal.
Quote from: byhammerandhand on April 17, 2013, 03:34:17 pm
Stand up, put on your coat, have your wife pick up her purse, head for the door, and see if they come quickly with your check.
I once followed a waiter from table to table for nearly 10 minutes. Since he knew that I was pissed, and he wasn't getting a tip, he just kept on waiting on other tables, refusing to go total my check.
Ok 4x as much as who makes? I did a zipper for a guy yesterday . Came in at 9 . called him at noon and said its done. $40 bucks , flipped me a 50 and said we're even. I will quote bloboaters only time plus materials. Don't get too many that will go for that but like right now in high season it's not worth my time to dick around.
me I dint calculate a tip if its 52 I give here 60 and say ge the change and get up in not a all night guy either eat and leave 1/2 hour. im not a complainer either one Friday I had a early day so I stoped to reregister my boat then stoped for lunch at a new spot I was done quick with lunch and the old lady waitress left me sitting there to werer I was getting hot and about redy to look for her but about 20 minutes waiting I got my check to being still an early day I went to the marina to stick on the new sticker on my boat bypassing my house on to the marina not long there but then went on home to find my wheelchair handicapped father drowned in my pool I wish I had not been so forgiving that day and left sooner