I will share this with my friends here, especially those who want to make better money.
My best luck has been: Find something consumers will pay for that your business can do relatively efficient and do a lot of it.
It pays the bills, doesn't yield the same bragging rights, but it will spoil you.
The consumer doesn't understand much more than "how much". It is not about what they get it is all about "how much". Those who do understand it all, quality, etc, will pay and some will not ask the price. That type of customers gets the attention they deserve.
It is important for us small business people to pursue markets that the big box stores don't or can't support, that is don't go head to head against them, small operators will lose.
Repairs, for example. Wood repairs can be a good source for profits. I do them, low material cost, not much competition, they can be done fast, usually.
Consumers are keyboard oriented, some of the things we do with our hands (using tools) are foreign to them or they have no interest or understanding of how it is done, many will have the work done if it is less than replacement.
My .02 cents.
What works best for you in business? We all can't or won't do it the same way.
Doyle
I love repair work. Always have. I have only 1 requirement now... any work has to be clean. I do a lot of interior "home dec." work in my shop and "dirty/grimey" is not compatable. I'm happy to repair horse blankets, but they have to be clean when they come into my shop. I won't struggle with really big and heavy items any more. SORRY! I've done enough pool covers to last me into my next lifetime. All done with that crap, thanks.
Clothing alteration/repair? GRAVY for a well trained person. Takes me -10 minutes to remove and replace a fly zipper in a pair of jeans, I'd do 'em all day long, thank you very much! Make an app't. for a fitting/drop off and I'm your girl!
You're preachin' to the choir. ;D
Repairs are the easiest money I make. They take very little time, and they go a long way in paying the bills.
Some upholsterers are too proud to repair low-end furniture. They don't want to even be associated with poor quality stuff. And they don't feel right about repairing something that is just going to break again anyway.
Well send 'em to me.
Luv's me some cushion foam replacement, too!
If I had enough of that kind of work, I wouldn't do anything else.
OK, so it's agreed that repairs are good profit. My question is how are you going after this business?
Rich
Yellow pages, believe it or not yields calls.
Other shops that don't do them refer you. Some don't want to work on the new junk, no bragging rights for them.
Having a brick and mortar business for a number of year is a tremendous asset.
there are no secrets as to how to grow the business, just a desire to make money and a willingness to go and "just do it"!
Advantages - efficiences (no selling time)
Disadvantages - no bragging rights and a strong background in furniture upholstery and wood furniture a major plus, buy the right tools if they save time, buy them!
Can't say how important experience is!
Believe it or not, not everyone will like the work.
Doyle
Quote from: Rich on February 02, 2013, 06:38:07 am
OK, so it's agreed that repairs are good profit. My question is how are you going after this business?
I stress repairs and foam replacement on my website. And since I have a retail storefront, I have ample signage in my window.
I tried a "Google Ad Words" thing where I designate certain keywords (such as furniture repair) that will turn up first in a customer's Google search. I had a $100 free credit to start out. When the $100 ran out (.25 per click), I didn't renew it.
But for the most part, I just "Let the game come to ME".
Since I do repairs for all the local furniture stores, they refer their customers to me.
I agree with Doyle. The Yellow Pages do still work. But due to some confusion with my inept YP ad rep, my ad under "Upholstery" was omitted from my local phone book this year. My only listing is under "Furniture repair and refinishing". So far, I haven't noticed any drop-off in calls.
My opinion is that Yellow Pages was not cost-effective for me. It cost over $500 a month for a business card-sized ad. Most of the calls I got were telemarketers soliciting credit cards, accounting services, etc. etc.
Then for a while I had just a one-line listing as a business phone / remote call forwarding number. About 20% of the calls I got there were for the prior owner of that phone number (a recording studio) even though they hadn't been in business for a couple of years (either they had stale business cards or something).
I have a one-page web site that generates calls. I also have a good rating on Angie's List and get a lot of inquiries via that. Other than that, it's recurring B2B and repeat jobs that I've done for people.
I do "repair only" I think it's a lot easier for someone to spring $100 for a repair than to spring $1000 for an upholstery job.
Use It Up, Wear It Out, Make It Do, or Do Without
I just did a repair job wensday I bought no materials used stock I had and was extra I get repairs omce in a awhile now seems I used to see in NH ON many Saturdays in spring people bring in resews or bad vinyl windows needing replacement.not as much now. but even with new work I once had a neibor marina owner say to me after a walmart opened up in the area that maybe my tackle could be bought cheaper at ny wholsale costs actualy but my canvas upholstery work will never be .
Quote from: Rich on February 02, 2013, 06:38:07 am
OK, so it's agreed that repairs are good profit. My question is how are you going after this business?
Rich
Put on your salesman hat and stop by your local furniture stores. Most have plenty of work.
Each store is different. Some are concerned with price only. But others are more customer oriented and want fast turn around, quality workmanship and a professional attitude. These are the stores I like to work for. When your dealing with there customer your representing there store. A store like this will also refer customers to you who's furniture is out of warranty.
I quit doing repairs. I only needed to do two of them before I realized it wasn't worth my time.
MY profit was ate up in just cleaning my shop and my machine afterwards. I had sand, dirt and grime all over the place and in my machine. I refuse to do repair work now.
The last one I did the customer washed the fabric before bringing it to me. My machines vibration bounced tiny sand particles right out of the weave and all over my machine.
In regards to doing something efficiently I believe I have a great product. The margins are hefty and the turn around time fast. I can turn products over relatively fast. I love specializing in the niche market I am in. But it took me a couple years to realize that I cannot do all things. I dropped my solar screen line as well as custom covers. They are more time consuming and do not pay as well as canvas work.
I often wonder if I was a young man just getting started in this game which direction I would have chosen. Auto's ? Marine ? Furniture ? No idea to be honest. But I do realize that in order to specialize it takes years to master each one.
At this stage of the game and at this point in my life I am comfortable and happy doing what I currently do. It pays extremely well and is perfect for my health limitations. I also love motorcoaches so it feedss that passion for me as well.
kody's idea of going to the furniture stores was more the answer I was asking for. Getting your name out there is good and certainly builds long-term business, but is there a more aggresive way of actually hunting down this business? Targeting people who have this need and going after them? I'm thinking maybe direct mail if you knew who your potential customers were, but are there other ideas we can come up with?
Rich
Rich one has to start and demonstrate what they can do. In repairs, the activity is closer to working with current manufacturing techniques and materials than restoring older furnitue. That has and does change over the years.
Like Dennis said, the game can come to you, I believe it is a given that there are fewer upholsters and repair people around these days. Repairs require one to be fast and good. That takes us full circle to efficiency. If one isn't efficient in repairs, then there could be a problem.
Business is built of loyalty and reputation, no different in this case.
Just get your feet wet, there are things to learn. Recliners can be a big part of the repair industry, just about everything, new, often has a recliner in it. They can be a head ache.
Getting the work, may not be a problem, over time.
Doyle
Just got a recliner with two broken springs. I figure 1/2 hr to take the seat apart. 15 -20 min to pop a couple of springs in and 30 to 45 min to put it all back together. $150 for less than 2 hrs work. That's good pay in north central Florida. And the customer is tickled pink.
Quote from: kodydog on February 06, 2013, 04:34:13 pm
Just got a recliner with two broken springs. I figure 1/2 hr to take the seat apart. 15 -20 min to pop a couple of springs in and 30 to 45 min to put it all back together. $150 for less than 2 hrs work. That's good pay in north central Florida. And the customer is tickled pink.
Now, if that was a boat seat here's how it would play out... 1/2 hr to take the seat out, except for the last bolt which was in the salt for the past 8 years is now frozen with rust. It won't budge - you need to either get a hack saw blade in there and saw for 25 minutes or get out your angle grinder with a cut-off disk and grind the nut off and rebuild the damaged wood that you turned into sawdust with the grinder. Pop in the new springs, except that the hardware you need to hold them in won't fit in the allotted space so you need to reinvent the wheel to figure out how to keep them in place securely. Reassemble the seat - but the old bolts are too badly corroded so you need to replace them with parts that are $1.75 a pop and you need to either order and wait 3 days for delivery or drive 25 minutes to the next county to pick them up. Gotta love marine work.... :'(
Let us know if it really is profitable in the end.
June
Quote from: JuneC on February 06, 2013, 06:55:03 pm
Quote from: kodydog on February 06, 2013, 04:34:13 pm
Just got a recliner with two broken springs. I figure 1/2 hr to take the seat apart. 15 -20 min to pop a couple of springs in and 30 to 45 min to put it all back together. $150 for less than 2 hrs work. That's good pay in north central Florida. And the customer is tickled pink.
Now, if that was a boat seat here's how it would play out... 1/2 hr to take the seat out, except for the last bolt which was in the salt for the past 8 years is now frozen with rust. It won't budge - you need to either get a hack saw blade in there and saw for 25 minutes or get out your angle grinder with a cut-off disk and grind the nut off and rebuild the damaged wood that you turned into sawdust with the grinder. Pop in the new springs, except that the hardware you need to hold them in won't fit in the allotted space so you need to reinvent the wheel to figure out how to keep them in place securely. Reassemble the seat - but the old bolts are too badly corroded so you need to replace them with parts that are $1.75 a pop and you need to either order and wait 3 days for delivery or drive 25 minutes to the next county to pick them up. Gotta love marine work.... :'(
Let us know if it really is profitable in the end.
June
Preach it Sister!
But you boat guys make $150 an hour. Right? ;)
Kody, I will take those broken spring jobs like that until the end and do also.
I was closing last night and got a call to work on furniture that was just delivered. The movers broke a frame component and customer wanted vendor to fix it now!!! So, I got the call, I keep a set of tools, all lithium powered ready in a tool box, one tool for every bit needed, so no time is wasted looking for bits and changing sockets. An electric stapler is also part of the gear, all that is reqired is just pick up and go! I might add, I presaw wood blanks and have them on the truck, which meets internal frame repair requirements. (yes, I have done that many to know what breaks).
Anyway, I just jumped in the truck and went and repaired it after closing, It was a $100 job that took me about an hou,r to stop by on the way home to complete.
Like I said above, find something that not many want to do, that you can do, and get fast at it, then get a lot of it to do, There are no bragging rights, just do four or five a day, and at the end of the day, it sure helps to pay the bills. In this recession down turn, it isn't over - the government has masked over it with their credit card that is still growing, and tells us it is. But any way, I had the best year last year in all my years in business. I am paying the taxes out the wha - hoo too!
In contrast, I get motor cycle seats that have been beat to heck, bolts rusted, padding in need of repair. Even after charging a good bit, it can be very difficult or impossible to make the same kind of money. But the cycle seats have the bragging rights, pretty shades of vinyl, with perfect stitching. Well, I suppose the furniture frames have some bragging rights, but you just pay the bills. ;) And I should add; just learn to put up with working on cheaply built furniture. Not every one who works on any upholstery could see doing what I do, it is beneath them. I have been there and done that, too.
Kody, you are the man!
Keep preaching, this is the choir.
Doyle
Quote from: kodydog on February 07, 2013, 03:24:57 am
But you boat guys make $150 an hour. Right? ;)
$300 an hour just for getting out of bed in the morning! ;D
Now we're talking!
Rich
ACTUALYi can only get $75 but I try to make up in doing the job fast.i used t gewt a lot of repairs up north and it was easy money reokacing windiw vunyl was a good one the odd widow replacement job I did kast week was odd as not many hewre have windows 90% of my canvas work in covers im working od a couple product I can sell to a mass customer easy to make and a fair profit
Bragging rights........ I sometimes yearn for that. I have none whatsoever. Yes I make some of the very best toppers and awnings you can get but seriously folks, how dang hard are they to make ?
I grant you there has been a ton of time invested in education so I know the full spectrum of motorcoach awnings, toppers, mechanics of the awnings, motors, arms, types, styles, model years, fabrics, colors, patterns, etc. But in the end I sometimes believe I could train one of my German Shepherds to actually make one.
I would love a job that would give me bragging rights like a cleverly done motorcycle seat or a chair or maybe a boat interior job. The money in canvas work is great but there are no bragging rights whatsoever. You have no idea how I sometimes envy the work that you guys and gals turn out.
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on February 10, 2013, 04:40:27 pm
You have no idea how I sometimes envy the work that you guys and gals turn out.
Chris
And I envy your paycheck. Too many times I find I've earned maybe $5 an hour if I'm lucky.
I think Doyle's original subject of this thread is finding a balance of creativity (implies labor-intensive but comes with bragging rights and low pay), and ho-hum products that are REALLY profitable. I think it was Stitcher who used to upholster commercial stuff during the day for restaurants/hospitals/etc. and spent his nights pursuing his first love - auto trim on classics. My problem is I haven't found the ho-hum big-money product yet and if I did, I'm not sure I could stick with it because I'm always thinking of new and fun things to pursue.
June
Chris,
Don't be so negative about your success, your bragging rights are your take home pay and the total business package success. I personally, see you have dimensional capabilities, that all wrapped up, that could yield a very commendable business story.
BTW Chris, I am actually enjoying the new challenges that come with doing new furniture repairs, the business contact is with different elements (up the marketing chain including some manufacturing representatives). In my case, repair engagement is more a direct relationship with manufacturers, they don't take bids or ask how much? However, a business plan that aims directly at consumers would be different.
Working on brand new products carries the advantage of being exposed to state of the art technology, opposed to restoring furniture with considerable age. That is something I appreciate. A point; High technology that is very efficient, marketed by impressive business plans can be very interesting while product quality may be just average. Understandable, because quality is a function of consumer demands and ability to spend for the same. I do hope I am making sense.
Anyway, nothing is perfect, but what is important is being able to pay the bills. ;)
Doyle
I started in the north for 14 years there made good money on simple flat boat covers no bragging rights other then no wrinkles. I dint see many boat upholstery jobs either just enouigh to learn in here in florida for the last 9 years ive done more upholstery then I ever did before and the easy money cover are few and far between.
easy compared to a 20] cockpit and bow cover on trailers I could do 6 a day with two workers .
and chris I agree id love your position to never see the customer and not to have to do the installd easy money repair don't see many here either, ive started trying to sell some items as you customer can call me with give me some measurments and I make it ship it and send it and get paid in advance ive got 4 orders so far :D
id like to make it full time
Quote[I make it ship it and send it and get paid in advance ive got 4 orders so far
id like to make it full time /quote]
If one can select a product (s) that is in demand, not competitive with foreign labor, a doable business can be made of it. I know of two or three who are focusing on automotive related items that are doing well.
They are specialty items, relatively expensive, and are marketed on the internet.
The key to the successful styles I describe is providing a quality product to a middle class and upward market that a mere skill in their trade is not enough.
In general they work with analog patterns and have some degree of proficiency built into the process. I didn't say they were getting rich, but are making it. Low interference from customers is a virtue like Chris and Mike referenced.
But, the vendor has to be very good at generating the product, those with money can afford to be picky.
The risk is someone else gets your idea and competes, as any business. I would think there is some asset to a specialty like that, particularly if the skill could be tranferred and volume is impressive.
In short it takes all the things we talk about plus a vision and how to reach the goal. To raise the stakes, an interprenuer would probably have to off shore the labor to raise the stakes, much like the bigger corps have done (I.E. GE, you get the idea).
Doyle
Quote from: Mojo on February 10, 2013, 04:40:27 pm
I would love a job that would give me bragging rights like a cleverly done motorcycle seat or a chair or maybe a boat interior job. The money in canvas work is great but there are no bragging rights whatsoever. You have no idea how I sometimes envy the work that you guys and gals turn out.
Chris
Seriously Chris? You work on friggin million dollar coaches. Bragging rights for sure. I would love to see some pics of your work.
Doyle:
I was a little concerned about competition at the start but I have had very little except for the big companies that I myself compete against. It was not easy breaking into the " Bus Owners World ". They are very skeptical of new comers and tend to stick to vendors or companies they know.
I had to crack their world by attending rallys and get togethers and conducting educational seminars. By making myself available to them, putting my face in front of hundreds of people at each Rally I was able to get a foothold in the canvas world. Word spread that I did high quality work using the very best in materials and the rest is history.
They are very leery about letting anyone work on their " babies " ( motorcoaches ) so it takes time to build your reputation and a client list. But once you do you find that the owners of these coaches are extremely loyal and hand out referrals like candy. In return I also support them by attending their rallys, advertising in their publications and doing what I can to help them. It is also a HUGE help that I am an owner of one of these coaches and belong to their associations.
It was a lot of work getting there.
Chris
Very Impressive story Chris, I encourage you to keep reaching or keep swinging at the plate for more home runs!
You could take the coach awning business to higher levels, not to suggest you will not. There are most likely related products to coach awnings that are good considerations for expansion. Also, there are efficiencies that could be brought into your production business model, without compromise to quality at all, and above all make doing business easier.
The efficiences that I am thinking of would actually insure higher quality and less probability of error. Much of what I alude to also applies to my business model, hence the reason I brought it up.
You have a great business story and I suggest sticking with it. ;) ;)
Bragging rights are embedded in your story, don't belittle that fact. Some bragging rights come in the form of what one sees, don't forget there are plenty of rights embedded, to those who understand the process as well as the product.
Plus, let's not forget that the magnitude of the numbers and how it translates into success, is equally impressive. Actually, they (rights)vcome in all shapes and forms.
Keep on keeping on Chris, the real fun has just begun. Take things to the next level, then the next level, incorporate technology into the process, add new products to support the technology development and the magnitude of the numbers will tell the real story.
Thanks for sharing, I am a fan.
Doyle
Quote from: Mojo on February 19, 2013, 04:12:12 am
.
I had to crack their world by attending rallys and get togethers and conducting educational seminars.
that one thing I couldn't do i was invited to talk at a few yacht club meetings give a little seminar how to talk .
even in the past when I talked well I couldnt give a seminar speech .
The subject of this thread keeps grabbing my attention and in spite of my previous silly comments I find myself mulling over this topic in my mind almost every day.
There are things that we do that pay well and things that don't. Things we enjoy and things we don't. The bottom line for me is that while facing ever increasing taxes, health care cost, high priced gasoline and this list goes on; I need to make more money. And, not just to have more stuff but just to survive!
A friend once told me that a mentor said to him "to be sucessful, do one thing and be the absolute best at it." Often, I find myself doing way too many things and in too many places which is very inefficient.
So as I have been mulling over this for the last couple of weeks and discussing this topic with my wife; I have decided to start tweaking my business some, and researching the possibility of focussing on one aspect, that being boat covers.
This will not be an overnight transition, but my plan is to push forward in this direction and still do upholstery among other things for now. Hopefully learning to turn away from more of the time waster money loosing jobs, while building a reputation for producing high quality boat covers with fast turn around and a grat value.
Just my thoughts, my appologies for the excessive rambling. :)
Tim,
In a word, to make a business go, find something you can learn to do fast and well, then do a lot of it. Last year in this economy, this philosophy worked very well for me. But, for my operation, there is even more room for improvement. I am looking at patterns and techniques, plus equipments that will set the stage for better performance.
My question to you, or any involved in boat covers is; If you got three boats in a row all made by the same manufacturer, of course same size and style, could the pattern development from the first be the basis for most or all of the pattern requirements for the three boats? If so, even with some modifications would it save time in generating boat covers for all the "same boats"? Or is there a better approach?
Doyle
Quote from: Mike on February 20, 2013, 09:35:05 pm
Quote from: Mojo on February 19, 2013, 04:12:12 am
.
I had to crack their world by attending rallys and get togethers and conducting educational seminars.
that one thing I couldn't do i was invited to talk at a few yacht club meetings give a little seminar how to talk .
even in the past when I talked well I couldn't give a seminar speech .
There are people who can do public speaking engagements and those who cannot because they are just not comfortable with the entire thing. I come from a background
( corporate/marketing/PR ) where it was imperative that I do public speaking. I spoke in front of huge crowds and small ones. I like the smaller intimate groups the most.
I attended training classes on public speaking and learned how to work and control audiences. So this comes easier to me then maybe others. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I maybe able to do public speaking and win over audiences but there are many things I am not good at. Marine work is one of those. ;D
Chris
Tim:
I wished I had the time to sit down and write out ways to discover, tweek, re-invent and then market and move a business. Over the years I have worked on some awesome product and brand projects and learned a great deal from heavyweight Fortune 500 marketing types. Working with manufacturing companies I also learned a great deal on product development and assembly. I wished there was a way to share this knowledge with others.
In regards to my own business, I focused on something that I enjoyed and in an area I had a passion for - motorcoaches. I could train anyone of you to make my products in 2 hours. They are not hard. The problem comes in when a customer contacts you and tells you he has a certain series of awning or topper assembly and has questions. The educational portion of this job is what took years and I am still learning.
I get a lot of my business because of my reputation of being known as an expert in mechanical and power awnings and across all brands as well. ( Little do they know ). It wasn't easy getting there and I still learn from time to time. I have spent countless hours working with technicians learning every single one of the brands, assemblies, etc. heck I have done installs myself just so I could learn. But I had a passion for it so enjoyed the educational process.
I suggest to anyone who is looking for a niche that they learn the product and its application frontwards and backwards and become experts to set themselves apart from the competition.
A perfect example of this are some of our marine people. Mike and June know boats and models like few others do. mention a type of boat and model number and both will recall the exact design in their heads. I consider them both experts because they know the boats from top to bottom, not just the canvas that hangs on them. Heck, Mike and June know powerplants and transoms and all the mechanicals as well. This is why I have such a deep respect for them as tradespeople.
Doyle is another one as is Russ. Both know cars extremely well and have a deep knowledge about them. There are many others on here who took it the extra mile and learned the guts
of what they work on.
We can all learn about fabrics, sewing techniques, etc. but going the extra mile to know brands, all of their issues, etc. is what sometimes sets you apart from your competition. I like to tell people that it isn't my sewing prowess that gets me business. It is my level of knowledge on each application for the products I make. My customers know they can come to me and chances are I will have the answer to their question and if I don't have the answer I will get it in very short order.
Chris
Hey guys, i really like this forum. My shop is part time only , I used to be full time then in 1986, I got into the environmental business full time, but couldn't give up the trim work totally because I really enjoy it. I don't do furniture just automotive, motorcycles and such. I do repairs but on my schedule not theirs. Getting cranky as I get older.
Quote from: bigredneck on February 24, 2013, 07:11:00 pm
Hey guys, i really like this forum. My shop is part time only , I used to be full time then in 1986, I got into the environmental business full time, but couldn't give up the trim work totally because I really enjoy it. I don't do furniture just automotive, motorcycles and such. I do repairs but on my schedule not theirs. Getting cranky as I get older.
Welcome Mr. Neck. Watch out for JD, He's probably going to try and unload a time-share on you.
Imagine how cranky you'd be if you did it FULL time! >:(