As your skills, knowledge, technologies improve the overall business performance and profits grow, do these factors make you think your prices should be lower? Do you ever feel guilty by your shop rates?
Don't consumers think they pay too much?
Or is the rule, if you can get it, go for it?
What is your feeling about all this?
Doyle
True, we find faster, more efficient ways to produce the finished product. But as the cost of living rises, the two seem to offset each other.
Quote from: DB on January 22, 2013, 05:35:53 am
Don't consumers think they pay too much?
I'm sure they do. I suspect that customers of ANY trade or profession think they pay too much.
Quote from: DB on January 22, 2013, 05:35:53 am
Or is the rule, if you can get it, go for it?
Whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not.......yes, I believe that IS the rule.
I firmly believe that the cost of ANYTHING is based
solely on what the consumer is willing to pay.
QuoteI firmly believe that the cost of ANYTHING is based solely on what the consumer is willing to pay.
So true, a free market will always control the prices of good and services. That being said I have found in "my area" that it is nearly imposable for upholsters to charge rates consistent to what a plumber, mechanic, or an electrician can charge. In my area people spend their money on necessity items and upholstery is considered a luxury.
My shop rate is based on my overhead plus a % markup for making a profit, so no I do not feel guilty, I would classify my feelings more like frustration. >:( Frustrated because people come to me complaining about the cheap junk furniture they bought thinking I can work mearicals for them for less they they payed for it in the first place. Or I tell them I can build them a new chair that will last for 100 years, they like that until they hear the price. Many end up just replacing the junk with more junk, a never ending cycle. They never stop to think that it cost less over the long term to buy quality.
So many people talk about bringing manufacturing back to this country, buying local and supporting the local economy, and that is all good, until it comes to putting their money where their mouth is.
Doyle,
In this business, there are so many factors that contribute to making small profits or just losing it altogether, I see few times when a business owner should feel guilty about his pricing. I think if you're doing the right job, not shortchanging the customer and generally being fair, there's no reason to feel guilty about making a decent profit when the job allows.
As far as how to charge as skills and knowledge increase, I think customer's see the lack of those things as reasons to pay less, so why shouldn't the price go up as the level of expertise goes up?
At any rate, I've always taken the position that the customers will ultimately determine the price, so on those occasions when you have been able to convince them that your price is justified and they are happy with he results, everyone should be happy!
BTW, the words I don't like to hear are "Oh, that's all?"
I have struggled with a guilty conscience since I began specializing in canvas work. I set my prices by calling around and checking my competitors prices ( mainly the big canvas makers ). I set my price below that by about $ 150 for a quad slide order.
It worked out good as I was slow at making them in the beginning. But then I found alot of techniques that shaved huge amounts of time off my production clock. I now am at approximately $ 135 per hour which I consider to high. But then on complex awnings I am down around $ 75 per order. These numbers are all profit numbers as I calculate my labor after all materials and overhead is taken into account.
I have though about dropping my prices as I feel like I am gouging people. Then again I deliver one of the very best products in its class and my competitors have yet to match my warranty or quality. So should buying the best equate to paying more ? I know that as a consumer I am always willing to spend more to get the best. many of my customers are finding this out as I am doing fabric replacements for people who bought my competitors replacements and now after they have failed are back once again after 2 years buying more. ( My warranty is for 3 years).
Still what I try and do is offset my profit margins with pro bono work now and then. Maybe its a feel good thing for me. But I still feel that a successful person should give back to their community and if this means making dog beds for the local ASPCA shelters so be it. I also donate money to the Leukemia society and Bone Marrow foundation. I am a firm believer in giving back.
Still I have days I struggle with what I earn. But my wife likes to remind me that I do not set my prices, the market sets them for me.
Chris
I get the occasional call from the young guy who may think he can get a full cover on his boat for $400. and they ask a ballpark price over the phone and that's it. I will lower my labor rate if its a easy job id like to do ,but if im busy I usually dont
My rates have gone up as I gained more confidence in my skills, the only time I really get any complaint about my rates is when people bring in small jobs and I tell them up front I have a 1 hour minimum (45 bucks) and the job only takes me 15 minutes or so.....I have learned from experience to tell the customer to drop it off and come back tomorrow for it...because if they cant see me do it that fast, its not as bad!
I have had some furniture customers try and bring me a cheap couch, like a long sectional with chase lounge on one end, they said they got it for 200 bucks and wanted to get it recovered, I told them the price and they almost screamed
Interesting reading, easy to relate to all input.
I stay busy in the business, no question and over time, I do pick up significant efficiencies that sometimes even doubles profits.
There are a lot of comments around, we see, hear them from everywhere regarding greed, especially in the social sector of our world. The younger consumers, who work every angle to buy cheap, usually think my prices reflect greed. I often think it is; because they can't buy the service right off the internet; hence I am an overpriced greedy business owner. Truthfully, I don't think they understand all that is involved in upholstering and how scarce quality skill is in most cases.
So, like most of you, I work long hours, get my price, and beieve me - pay the taxes at all levels, in the end. The emphasis, going forward, is to continue doing it better but faster without sensivitiviy to profits being too high. Isn't it interesting when a business loses money, it usually can't expect any sympathy support. ;) I think it is usually thought of as a loser instead and a dummy doesn't deserve consideration.
I think it is safe to assume the younger market is more skeptical of business people. Wonder why that is?
Doyle
Not to beat a dead horse, although when I was a kid... Well, never mind, that's another story for another time. :o
I think we are changing to a s o c i a l i s t society where the government provides everything for the people, or "the peoples" as Zorro the Gay Blade would say.
Young people have grown up with politicians, the main stream news media, and Hollywood saying the corporate world is all about greed and greed is bad.
This, by the way, is not necessarily a criticism, but rather an observation. And I could be wrong.
I learned that there are two ways to price products: The price I want, and the market price that people will pay. I don't see anything wrong or greedy with "the price I want" always being higher than the price that people will pay.
Business is about making profits. Government is about spending. They are two mutually exclusive ways of looking at the world.
Big corporations got into the profits of manufacutres by saying, "Hey, if you make that part year after year, you will experience efficiancies, so we want a 10% lower price next year." The joke was that in 10 years manufacturers would be making the parts for free.
gene
Still I have days I struggle with what I earn. But my wife likes to remind me that I do not set my prices, the market sets them for me.That's true: Set your prices too high and you won't have much business. Set your prices too low and you'll go unprofitable and out of business. In my econ classes, this was expressed as price set by
marginal revenue = marginal cost. This is the mathematical balance point of maximizing profit. Profit is not a dirty word -- without it, we would all eventually go out of business.
Let's say you drop your prices by 50%. Then what happens?
* You get a lot more work and can't keep up. Hire employees, train them, they leave, train more, quality goes down, you spend time managing, training, fixing their mistakes or eating time and material costs for failures.
or
* You work twice as many hours and end up making the same take home.
If the market will bear it; it's yours for the picking. Do you really think a CEO tells his corporate board that he's not really worth $15 million a year?
Quote from: Mojo on January 23, 2013, 04:41:32 am
I have though about dropping my prices as I feel like I am gouging people. Then again I deliver one of the very best products in its class and my competitors have yet to match my warranty or quality. So should buying the best equate to paying more ? I know that as a consumer I am always willing to spend more to get the best. many of my customers are finding this out as I am doing fabric replacements for people who bought my competitors replacements and now after they have failed are back once again after 2 years buying more. ( My warranty is for 3 years).
Still I have days I struggle with what I earn. But my wife likes to remind me that I do not set my prices, the market sets them for me.
Chris
P.S. My wife (a retired CPA who can't seem to put down the green visor) does all our personal expenses on Quicken. Our biggest expense last year -- drum roll..... Taxes. 25% of our expenses and that does not include any of the sales taxes we pay on everything except most food from the grocery store. Second expense - health insurance and healthcare costs (and yes, we're both healthy)
Around here there is a variance in just about any market for stuff like we do. There are some who never ask the price and there are others who seem to ask only the price and probably don't have a dollar in their pocket.
BTW, Hammer, do you build custom wood fruniture or is it more novalty type market (conversation pieces)? I hear the Amish around us do considerable wood furniture wood building.
Doyle
I don't custom build furniture, except for myself and family. Got a bedroom set done for one daughter last year, did two dressers last fall for another, bunch of Christmas presents for kids and grandkids, and ready to start bunk/twin beds for granddaughters. I try to squeeze this in on weekends and evenings when I'm not otherwise busy :-)
It just doesn't work well to do furniture construction if you don't have longer periods of un-interupted time. Halfway into a glue up and the phone rings, just get re-oriented on something and you have to leave to do a service call, etc.
There are lots of Amish furnituremakers in Ohio. Most are north central (between the NE corner of the state and Columbus. There is a smaller colony about an hour east of here. I used to go to an annual tool auction at one of the farms there. Most of the Indiana Amish are across the northern fringe, I think. We used to travel US 6 and see a bunch of kitchen cabinet factories and RV factories that were staffed by Amish men.
I stopped in to see a friend who's a full time custom woodworker. He's had a rough few years making a go of it. He has started making items to speculation (smaller things mostly, bowls, boxes, kitchen and sewing trinkets, cedar chests) rather than waiting for custom orders.
Quote from: DB on January 24, 2013, 06:00:46 am
Around here there is a variance in just about any market for stuff like we do. There are some who never ask the price and there are others who seem to ask only the price and probably don't have a dollar in their pocket.
BTW, Hammer, do you build custom wood fruniture or is it more novalty type market (conversation pieces)? I hear the Amish around us do considerable wood furniture wood building.
Doyle
byhammerandhand
"I stopped in to see a friend who's a full time custom woodworker. He's had a rough few years making a go of it. He has started making items to speculation (smaller things mostly, bowls, boxes, kitchen and sewing trinkets, cedar chests) rather than waiting for custom orders."
I have a friend with a custom wood shop just down the street from me as well, and he has had a bad year with the start up....it saddens me because he comes in and sits in his shop all day with nothing to do but he knows that he needs to be there in case a customer does show up....I plan to send my pontoon frame rebuilds to him, just so I can help a fella out some
Our own Mike802 makes some amazing furniture. He is what I call a master craftsman. I love watching his videos and have learned so much from them.
The next time I go to buy new furniture I will order it from him. My Great Grandkids will be using it after I am dead and gone.
Check out some of his work and his videos along with his website. His couches and chairs are amazing and what I call heirloom pieces.
No idea how his business has been. How about it Mike ? You been busy ? Sell any of those firelog carriers ?
Chris
This is an interesting topic. I think the way you price also reflects your confidence in your work.
I tend to undercharge consistently. I just can't get out of the mindset that I my shop is at home, so I don't have lots of overhead, and deep down, maybe I don't feel like I deserve a good price for my work. Despite 90% of my customers being referrals, I always get nervous when it's time to turn over the work to the customer and collect the money. And just about always, they are more than thrilled with the job. So that's something I have to work on.
I admire you guys who say "my time is worth $x and there's my price." I feel like I have to beat everybody else's price, but in the end, only about 10% of my customers care about the price.
Yeah, I need to get my head right.
Got a call this morning from a guy with wobbly chairs. I gave him my price (which is almost always a loss-leader for me because they often take more time.). He questions if that's the price if he brings them to my shop. Yes, that's right (you don't really expect me to make a pick up and delivery for that price do you???) I tell him that I'm out the door in a few minutes, but someone will be here if he wants to drop them off in my absence. He says he probably won't.
Of course, I could do it for less, and worse.
"There is hardly anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse
and sell a little cheaper, and those people who consider price only, are this man's lawful prey. It is unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot; it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better"
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
Have confidence in yourself and that is accomplished by a measure of your success.
If I was selling a product or service that was equal in every way with everyone else doing the same service or product, then I explain to consumers that pricing is the way to base your decision. But, the logical follow up to that premise is to ask them if the product or service they are seeking is equal every where else? Most times they get the idea, that all skills are not equal. Therefore quality matters.
As time passes and the number of crafts people providing the service, actually the customers are the choir, they end up telling me something like glad to see you are still in business because your skill is dying.
So, getting the business isn't hard, but a good craftsman (person?) can benefit on doing the job not only well but more efficiently. For example, I just did an anolog patten of some five year old truck seats that are starting to come in. It has cut my time significantly. In furniture repairs, I have a special tool rack for that work, tools already set up to do specific things. This has speeded up repeat type repair work and at the end of the day increased profits measureably.
We want to always get better, but equal in importance is Faster!
At the end of the day, I still enjoy working.
Doyle
Ever since I started I made it a policy to quote a fair price for a job, fair to both the customer and myself. I don't want to resent the piece or customer because I'm working for nothing.
I try and price by the hour, why not, I consider us to be professionals. Just becasuse I choose an apprenticeship to University dosen't make my skills any less worthy. Obviously my hourly rate has a way to go before I reach that of a Doctor or Lawyer 8)
I've never loaded a price to be able to knock it down to secure the work. I visit a vaiety of people some live in small cottages some live in stately homes, I never bump the price up because I think a customer is wealthier than another. If someone asks me to cut the price I politely refuse. I am never idle, sure I have low overheads so can roll with the ebb and flow but I still need to work and work I do. All my work is word of mouth (no advertising) with many returning customers.
Does that sound arrogant, sorry if it does, it's not meant to. I've been in upholstery/trimming a long time (33yrs) so it didn't happen overnight, it wasn't and isn't always easy and it could all end tomorrow.
Next time you visit someone with a new Merc or BMW on the drive consider how much the customer pays to have those cars serviced usually by a lad who has done less than a years training. It's all about percieved value, if you don't value yourself why should your customer.
Have confidence in yourself and your trade.
Sorry to ramble on.
You have been at it a while, Steve.
I presume you are primarily furniture? What capacity, true antiques or good older furniture, or do you get into repairs on newer furniture? Are you confronted with working on the newer imported Asian furniture or is that a strong marketing force in your territory?
Doyle
What do you respond when people say something like, "Can you do it for less?" I typically just say, "No." I'm wondering if it would just be too snarky to say, "Why would I do that?" and put them on the defensive.
The one I hate is "Could you do it for less for cash?" "So, you want me to lie and cheat the government, but trust me not to lie and cheat you?"
snarky
adjective \ˈsnär-kē\
Definition of SNARKY
1
: crotchety, snappish
2
: sarcastic, impertinent, or irreverent in tone or manner
"I've never known you to be snarky, byhammerandhand. OH NO! Not you!!! Never!!!" - said the crotchety old gene, with a sarcastic nod of his head and an impertinent conveyance of superiority from one who clearly can't be bothered by such ridiculous tripe.
When asked if I can do it for less, I say 'No'. I point out that if ALL you are looking for is the cheapest price, I'm sure you can find a cheaper price. (Emphasis on the word "cheaper".) I then point out that I try to provide service and quality that is second to no one. That's why my price is what it is.
When asked about doing it for less if they pay cash, I tell them that I pay tax on all my income - federal, state, local, and sales tax. This tends to make me seem honest and them not so honest. My business adviser from SCORE said to pay taxes on everything. That way you don't have to worry about anything and you eliminate the possibility of getting into trouble in the future.
You also don't have to worry if that customer was seriously interested in getting upholstery work or if they were working for some particular tax agency.
gene
You guys are funny! I can't be snarky to potential customers. I think guys are better at that. :P
I am so naive. Whenever I'd offered less for cash, I'd offered avoiding the credit card charge. Next time I'll be more specific precisely what I'm suggesting.
charging less for a cash customer isnt saving you the credit card charge anyways....should be the same price cash or charge
I think they're implying it's an under the table deal that I won't have to report as income.
Quote from: JDUpholstery on January 27, 2013, 02:02:58 pm
charging less for a cash customer isnt saving you the credit card charge anyways....should be the same price cash or charge
Quote from: byhammerandhand on January 27, 2013, 03:50:48 pm
I think they're implying it's an under the table deal that I won't have to report as income.
Quote from: JDUpholstery on January 27, 2013, 02:02:58 pm
charging less for a cash customer isnt saving you the credit card charge anyways....should be the same price cash or charge
Many retailers that accept credit cards pass their merchant fee (from the processing company) right on to the customer. Then they offer the customer a "Discount for cash". Nothing illegal, or unethical about it.
Several years ago, I came through a sales tax audit "clean as a whistle", but it was still very stressful. So I say no when they offer cash if I'll "wink-wink" forget about that nasty old sales tax.
DB Yes I do mostly furniture, my trade papers say Coach Trimmer, I did my apprenticeship with British Rail. Back then the train seats were still made of horse hair, lots of quilting, blind quilting and hand sewing so this training translated well to antique furniture. For a while in the mid 80s I worked for a well respected UK furniture manufacturer called Peter Guild. This taught me a lot about high end modern furniture. I set up in business the first time late 80s and did that until 2000. I then got offred a position with Aston Martin and ended up running the DB7 DB9 and V8 trim shops for a few years. I have to say I really have no desire to go into car trim. Now I find myself back on my own and have been since 2006.
I have no idea about the Asian furniture? I don't think it's hit us yet. Can you explain a bit more.
As I said most if not all of my custom is word of mouth I guess that means that the customer is of a type maybe. The nice thing about word of mouth is that I don't need to sell myself.
Going back to price dropping, my favorite is when someone you've never dealt with rings up (maybe its a small scale manufacturer) and say 'if you do us a really good price there will be more' my reply is 'no I'll price this as I normally would then if there is more I'll review the price' do you really want to work for someone who wants to screw you to the floor. Those calls rarely come to anything and I'm glad.
Cash: I do get offred it and sometimes it's nice but I don't offer discount for it. Most of my payments are via cheque although a few people like to do electronic bank transfers.
Credit Cards: Like Sofadoc said some companies here add a surcharge to use a card and make that clear, maybe that's a way for smaller businesses to handle it?
Steve:
I wished I had a dollar for " I can send you more business if you cut me a break ".... But then again almost all of my work is referrals and word of mouth. It is the silent customers who seem to bring me the business. The ones who run their mouth rarely produce referrals.
I enjoyed spending time in the UK. I was everywhere from Edinburgh to Ross on Wye. Had some very great memories there. Seen the devastation in the once booming Sheffield, flew my first bi plane/ open cockpit out of Duxford and ate some of the best fish and chips in Whitby.
The one thing that sticks out in my mind is the expense of everything there. I was really amazed at the taxes, wages and general overall cost of living. It isn't just the UK either. I seen the same thing in Holland, Luxembourg, France, Germany and Belgium.
In regards to cash, I do get cash payments ever now and then. It goes into our safe for a rainy day fund. :)
Chris
Numbers. I know what I have to have to meet my weekly "nut". When I factor in what I must pay in taxes I know what I must charge to "make my nut". Pretty easy on paper, but not always so easy IRL, esp. when my quotes are so often met with a curt, "thank you".
I have a different take than many on this site when it comes to taxes. As a citizen I've derived great benefit from tax revenues of others as well as those of my friends and fellow citizens. I enjoy a fabulous road system, and I attended public schools from primary school through university level. My parents were beneficiaries of both Medicare and SS and I paid for the benefits they derived even though my contribution was far greater than theirs ever was. I am happy to pay taxes, actually. And I am dismayed when they're wantonly squandered. I don't believe "gov't. is about spending". I believe, as a taxpayer and voter that gov't. spending is OUR responsibility. I'm not OK with how our taxes are presently being spent half a world away, nor am I OK with bolstering the Military Industrial Complex or allowing huge multi-national corporate "citizens" to skate by with minimal tax liability. But you already know that. ;)
I agree that a lot of young people don't really understand the price of labor because they don't know how to perform it. It's true. As a girl, in Jr. High I was required to take Home Ec. (I hated it, wanted to take Wood Shop). I HAD to learn how to make bread, plan menus, budget a weeks worth of meals with the local grocery stores advertisements, and sew. I was required to learn how to MAKE THINGS and while I loathed the focus of what my sex required me to learn I did actually learn to appreciate the value of labor. I think that's sadly missing in our present educational system. My father was a plumber. My brother was a natural mechanic (an artistic bent moved him into body work and higher end restoration work). My mother was always doing something around the house... braiding or hooking rugs (dying her own wools), stripping paint and recaning chairs, making clothes, etc.. "Labor" was always in the forefront of my childhood, as was a level of respect for the knowledge required to deliver a professional result. I am regularly stunned by the number of customers I have who have no clue whatsoever about how to even approach the most basic project! They just "don't get it".
However, I've also found that my knowledge of how to "do something" is now beginning to receive more respect and a willingness from my customers to pay for it! The key has been to focus my marketing on those people who have the discretionary money to pay me what I must earn to make the living I expect to earn. I don't play the, "Let's Make A Deal" game. I have to make X amount and you have to pay X amount. Pay it or get lost. If I'm going to make "no" money I'd rather work in my garden or do chores. My "minimum wage" days are long since gone!
Asian Furniture: Executive Summary:
- Make it as cheaply as possible.
- If you can save 5 cents on a piece by using inferior material, do it.
- Your factory labor was probably farming last month.
- Don't waste any wood -- knots, rough, wet - staple it in and pass it along.
- The factory that made this piece last month may not be the factory that makes it next month, and they not make it the same. And the importer won't know there is a difference.
- The consumer is the quality assurance group.
Unless there is some economy of scale, what's the incentive to do more work for less? If they're going to refer their friends, forget it. "You want me to do this for less money so I can do even more work for less money???" Most of the time they're blowing smoke. You don't want to compete on price; you want to compete on quality.
There was something that happened this week due to a class action suit that merchants can charge a surcharge for credit card transactions. The general consensus was that no one wanted to go first in a competitive environment. And if it became the trend, many consumers would resort to checks (checques) or cash.
Quote from: UKSteve on January 28, 2013, 01:15:16 am
I have no idea about the Asian furniture? I don't think it's hit us yet. Can you explain a bit more.
Going back to price dropping, my favorite is when someone you've never dealt with rings up (maybe its a small scale manufacturer) and say 'if you do us a really good price there will be more' my reply is 'no I'll price this as I normally would then if there is more I'll review the price' do you really want to work for someone who wants to screw you to the floor. Those calls rarely come to anything and I'm glad.
Credit Cards: Like Sofadoc said some companies here add a surcharge to use a card and make that clear, maybe that's a way for smaller businesses to handle it?
Re: Asian Furniture, since the mid seventies we have had really cheap furniture and people willing to buy the stuff. Furniture has become more of a fashion accesorie here in the last 20 years and there is a mindset that is happy to treat it as such. This furniture has a life cycle that sees it through the latest trend or fad then it's cosigned to landfill the people who buy this stuff are happy to live like that and do not become attached to the furniture, I never get calls from these people. Most of the cheaper stuff came into the Uk from eastern european countries during the last decade, being part of the EU amde this easy. Some larger furniture companies even had it bought in with no bottom cloth on just so they could fix it on here and claim it was uk made. It wasn't all junk but it was built down to a price and had/has a life expectancy to suit.
QuoteOur own Mike802 makes some amazing furniture. He is what I call a master craftsman. I love watching his videos and have learned so much from them.
The next time I go to buy new furniture I will order it from him. My Great Grandkids will be using it after I am dead and gone.
Check out some of his work and his videos along with his website. His couches and chairs are amazing and what I call heirloom pieces.
No idea how his business has been. How about it Mike ? You been busy ? Sell any of those firelog carriers ?
Chris
Hay Chris: Thanks for the plug, you made my day brother! Actually the handcrafted furniture business has been rather slow lately. I had a good holiday season though, the bread boards and candles sold ok. I am trying to add more smaller items to my site that are not to expensive, working on building brand and consumer confidence, that sort of thing. The fire wood carriers are still in the R&D phase, I have one that I am currently using, I can load it up good about 7 to 10 pieces of cord wood, which depending on the wood size is all someone would want to carry, holding up good so far, I think I can offer it with confidence, just need some shop time to finalize the details. I have so many ideas for new products, from candle holders to desks. My Staples desk is starting to fall apart and now would be a good time to design and build a new one, one for the business and one to lug around to trade shows, I am thinking along the lines of Shaker, but computer friendly. The reupholstery side of the business is keeping the bills paid, but I long for the day when I can stop offering upholstery services to the general public and use that skill for building my own products.
Well said bobbin!
Rich
Let's not think that our government doesn't waste tax money on domestic issues. Plus, what is the hourly wage of government workers? This info is available and the average job in Washington is well over $50 now. Those employees are not doing jobs that demand that kind of pay.
The focus on government spending is not only on welfare, it is on waste and over spending, domestic spending also. Some say, well it cost that much to live in DC, well, that can be changed.
Doyle
No arguement on domestic spending, Doyle. It's time to "get real" about what we can afford, what's "fair", and what's necessary. We're broke! we're runnin' up the tab and we don't want to face reality and the necessity of increasing taxes. So, something has to give.
I want to see the bloated, out of control military brought "to heel" in a BIG WAY. Retirees and their families receiving health care for $500/yr.? UNHUH, needs to stop, IMO since the husband and I can't touch meaningful coverage for less than $12K/yr.. I have a big problem with that inequity! Back to the issue, how can I possibly price my labor rate at a price that will allow me to compete with "back roomers" with that expense hanging over my head like the sword of Damocles? I can't! I haven't been able to afford insurance for 2 yrs. now. How many members of this board have spouses who work jobs that provide health insurance? and how many of those jobs are with "gov't."?
I'm very "competitive" when health care is removed from my equation. Factor it in and there is no way I can compete. You want to solve the economic crisis in this country? deal with health care! But the lobby for the closed market is too strong and it'll never happen.
We can't afford national health care? please! if we don't deal with it we're really sunk. Medicare Part E (E= everyone) and we have to start RATIONING what it will cover. Buy extra coverage in the "free" market! But every kid should be immunized (and it should be manditory!) and everyone should see a physician's ass't. once a year. If you're FAT, you should know you are and it should factor into the price you pay for "extra" coverage. When you go to hospital for a colonoscopy you should be able to see the PRICE up front... no more of this tiered pricing BS, why isn't "cash king" any more?!
Sorry, this one hit a raw nerve, you guys.
Yes the health care industry is out of control. That's why I have decided to take responsibility for my own health. There is so much info available on the net for alternative methods, herbs, silver, etc. I think it is important for people to realize that health care is "BIG BUSINESS" and is profit driven, it is better to keep people sick so they require your services, curing disease is not profitable. Most rank and file health care workers believe they are helping people, its those at the top who are profit driven. I had not been to a doctor in ten years, but I did get sick about a year ago, high fever with pain in my abdomen. Everyone in my family kept hounding me to go to the doctor, so I gave in and went to the white coated cereal killers at the ER. While waiting and waiting and waiting in the waiting room, my fervor broke. I was giving a bunch of tests, hydrated and given antibiotics, which I detest. and sent home. I reacted badly with the antibiotics, a follow up with a GP I was told to stop taking them, which I had already done. $7000.00 later and guess what they found, absolutely nothing! Oh, I should mention, I did find out that my prostrate was in good health, I could have performed that test at home myself without having to be violated by a female doctor while in a vulnerable state. Doctors, they can kiss my prostrate access location. I will take care of my self at home, the next MD I see will be postmortem.