I guess I'm gonna be the go-to gal for restaurant booth business in my little town. There is a new Denny's opening here and the upholsterer they hired, backed out at the last minute. A friend referred me. They called and I bid 25 booth seats only. I hung up the phone and said to myself, "oh s@*t, now what do I do? They have to be done and put back together by the 24Th. The owner is going to try and do the backs. We'll see. I'm guessing I will get those as well.
They are standard bench seats with gussets (well that's what we would call them in the party dress world) on the sides. Like a "U" shape sewn in the sides. They are top stitched around the gussets. Fabric comes in tomorrow. I have help tearing down, so I should be able to get it done. I have no time to mess this up so I have a couple questions.
1. Does it matter which direction I cut the vinyl?
2. Using the existing vinyl as a pattern, do I cut the main piece smaller than the old vinyl? I'm guessing the old vinyl would be stretched over the years, although they seem to be good and tight. They are changing them because of color. They are using Naugahyde expressions.
I understand that this is something you have all learned with experience. Unfortunately, I don't have this kind of experience. Yet... I am so thankful that you are all here so I can say "yes" to these projects. I always know there is help available. Thank you. When you folks start altering clothes, I can help ;D
when I pattern off existing vinyl i usually subtract 1/2" since vinyl has some stretch, its better to be a little tight than too loose....benches are fairly simple (even I can do them!) so you should be ok with time frame...if they are all the same size then find an average measurement and cut everything the same, then its just a matter of sewing and fitting/stapling
You mean to tell me that this is a new Denney's, and the owner is going to try to cover the backs himself? Boy, I knew times were tough, but I didn't know they were that tough. :o
That's going to look strange. With a professional seat, and an amateur "wrap job" on the back.
If that particular Denney's is cutting similar corners everywhere else, I predict they won't last long.
We have a ton of restaurants in this area that are UTBAD'S (used to be a Denney's).
It was a Green Mill. Changing to Denny's. Big stuff for this little town. I understand cutting costs, but I am invisioning the guy with a swingline at 3:00 am trying to finish before the grand opening. :D
It might explain why the previous upholsterer bailed on the job.
Don't worry if his makes your work look bad. 3 months from now, nobody is gonna remember who did what anyway. They'll probably be on their second manager by then.
Quote from: sofadoc on September 12, 2012, 11:00:35 am
Don't worry if his makes your work look bad.
After reading my own post, I realize that it could be interpreted 2 different ways.
I didn't mean that HIS work might outshine YOURS. I meant that HIS work might bring down the overall appearance of the job.
I would use the end panel to pattern that part out while it is still on the frame, but I would use the frame width to get the width measurement (that would be the width when you are sitting on the cushion L to R). The reason for using the frame is that the vinyl has probably shrunk, not stretched. Using the frame measurement and adding a small (1/4" per side if you sew with a 1/2" seam allowance) and then checking this against the old cover just to be in the correct ballpark, (since the foam may have added bulk to the cushion at the ends) you should do well. As far as across or into the roll, it depends on the size of the cushion. If it's 54" or wider, than you're bound to going into the roll since the vinyl will only be 54" wide. If you go across the roll, say, on a 48" cushion, then you might want to eliminate the extra 1/4".
The front to rear measurement is also going to come into play here, since in some cases even if the cushions are less than 54" it might make more sense to run them into the roll if the F to R can be gotten out of 1/2 the width of the roll (27").
Rich
Quote from: cthomps on September 12, 2012, 05:40:25 am
They called and I bid 25 booth seats only. I hung up the phone and said to myself, "oh s@*t, now what do I do? They have to be done and put back together by the 24Th.
Don't sweat the small stuff. Once you get the first two or three done the rest will be a breeze. With your helper you will get your time knocked down to 1/2 hour or less each. The hardest part will to stay focused. About the fifth one you will be asking yourself, are we done yet.
Quote from: cthomps on September 12, 2012, 05:40:25 am
1. Does it matter which direction I cut the vinyl?
Vinyl will stretch in one direction more than the other. pull on it to see. In this case if you use the less stretchy direction for up and down you will find it easier to pull the seams tight and not have wrinkles. It seems like your talking about sewn in channels.
QuoteVinyl will stretch in one direction more than the other
Yes, that's right and I forgot to make that clear in my reply. Vinyl will stretch more selvage to selvage than into the roll, which is why you might want to allow for the extra stretch by cutting it slightly shorter if you're running the longer length across the roll.
Rich
Rich, wouldn't you run the width of the seat up the rolls, this would align the stretch on the cushion on the shortest distance, the depth?
I haven't made any in a while, but that is the way I made them, I ran the stretch in the long distance on the boxing. This assumes a seam at the front and side edges, of course.
You have done a good number of these if I recall correctly, huh Rich? Sometimes, in recall, we almost always had to repair spring clips and spring strut support wires, the ones wrapped in paper. That work can go like a breeze but then the repairs in wood, springs, and strut wires, could slow the process.
Doyle
Doyle
On restaurant booth seats, I run the stretch whichever way I get the most efficient coverage per yard.
I don't think stretch is all that critical on booth seats. Not like the inside of a curved back barstool.
Wow. Thanks for all the help! They are just foam, on plywood, covered with vinyl. Should be easy peasy, but you all know how that goes. I just want to prevent the phone call in 3 months by trying to do it right in the first place! I will let you know how it goes. I have them all stripped down and the vinyl comes tomorrow. It is going to be a busy weekend! Is it wrong to secretly want to put more staples in than the last guy/gal?
[quoteRich, wouldn't you run the width of the seat up the rolls, this would align the stretch on the cushion on the shortest distance, the depth?
][/quote]
Doyle, many times, the F to R measurement is over 27" (I've found 31" to be fairly common) which means that if the width of the bench is under 54", you'd want to make the best use of vinyl by running the longer length across the roll. Running them into the roll gives a lot of room for the end panels but leaves you with strips of unused vinyl and of course a higher charge to the customer for the extra vinyl needed.
I've not seen to much in the way of springs lately (thankfully) as foam is used more often these days. Finding broken springs or clips does slow you down, but I always charged a per spring price to replace them.
CT, More staples? One per inch is probably plenty for most applications, I use Duofast 50 series staples which have a wide crown.
Rich
Rich. The seat board measures 47", so across the roll it is. Also, after pulling several thousand staples, that touched each other or over lapped, I acquired a bit of an attitude! Even with my inexperience, I thought it was overkill.
My staple statement was nothing more than "vengeance." :)
One of the seats had a previous vinyl layer "cut out" with about 1" left in place. The new cover was applied over this strip of previous staples and vinyl. Is this common practice, or lazy?
Again thank you all. Fabric comes in today.
Carol
I am going to vote for Lazy.
Almost all self respecting stitchers and rag tackers remove the old material. :)
Chris
If I don't think that it will create any excess bulk, I cut out the old panel with a razor blade and leave a 1" strip. Not always, just a "case-by-case" basis. It can save a ton of time not having to pull out every last staple. But if it's already been done once, you can't hardly get away with it again.
I don't mind being called "lazy". ;D I check my self-respect at the door every morning when I come to work. ;)
That's what I thought. I will do a project many times, and even loose money on it, until its perfect. Word gets around in this little town. Alot of my customers are cast overs from the other two sewing ladies in town with poor workmanship. And then there is my mother, second generation professional seamstress, always on my shoulder saying..."baby, are you sure that is the best you can do?" "you know that now quite good enough". Argggg. She was a great teacher and master of the guilt thing! LOL
Quote from: sofadoc on September 13, 2012, 06:33:25 am
If I don't think that it will create any excess bulk, I cut out the old panel with a razor blade and leave a 1" strip. Not always, just a "case-by-case" basis. It can save a ton of time not having to pull out every last staple. But if it's already been done once, you can't hardly get away with it again.
I don't mind being called "lazy". ;D I check my self-respect at the door every morning when I come to work. ;)
For shame........... :o................ ;D
My OCD wouldn't allow it...............lol....... I am curious. How can you get a good attachment if your stapling through old material ? Are you not preventing the staple from going all the way in if it has to go through an old layer of material ?
I do not do furniture so I have no idea. Do you use extra long staples to penetrate the old and new material to get a good hold ?
Chris
I have not seen may cases of overlay on the actual cushion, but bases are often just recovered over the old vinyl...I consider it laziness and remove it, but if the vinyl is in good shape it does offer an added layer of protection between the vinyl and wood so I doubt it hurts much....staple overkill is always fun for the next guy...go for it! lol
Quote from: JDUpholstery on September 13, 2012, 07:08:04 am
I have not seen may cases of overlay on the actual cushion, but bases are often just recovered over the old vinyl...I consider it laziness and remove it, but if the vinyl is in good shape it does offer an added layer of protection between the vinyl and wood so I doubt it hurts much....staple overkill is always fun for the next guy...go for it! lol
I would love to, but would probably shoot myself in the foot! Since this is a little town, I would be the "next guy" or gal as it were! ROTHFLOL
Quote from: Mojo on September 13, 2012, 07:04:00 am
I do not do furniture so I have no idea. Do you use extra long staples to penetrate the old and new material to get a good hold ?
Remember, I said "case-by-case basis". And I said "
IF I don't think it will create any excess bulk".
If there is just one thin strip of old vinyl along the edge, you won't need any longer staples to get a good hold. And yes, sometimes the old strip of vinyl can be a buffer between the wood and the new vinyl.
Where you sometimes need longer staples, is when the booth has been recovered multiple times, and the wood is literally perforated with staple holes.
Most newbies complain about the inordinate # of staples in a piece. I've been yankin' staples for so long, I couldn't tell you whether a piece a 100 staples, or a 1000.
Gotta agree with sofa on this one. I don't run a slop shop but restaurant owners want cheep prices and could care less if a strip of vinyl was left under the new. I'm sure overlapped staples is more than you bargained for. I would strip the corners where there is buildup and cut the rest.
If I remember correctly, an asphalt shingle roof can be done over the old 2 or 3 times before it has to be completely stripped down. I agree with kody that the bunched up corners should be removed, but on long runs? cut it and staple over the strip. I ask myself three questions:
1-Will doing it this way compromise the longevity of the job?
2-Will it adversely affect the appearance?
3-Will doing it more meticulously be of any benefit?
If the answer to all three is NO, then I go with it.
Rich
On a restaurant booth I may cut off the vinyl and leave the old stuff, but I don't do it often. Seems just as easy to rip it off sometimes. We do roller coaster upholstery for a nearby amusement park (has it's uph's and downs).
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2Fnot%2520boats%2Fth_PC090002.jpg&hash=22305a4ce2918df790d819e01f7ba39e) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/not%20boats/?action=view¤t=PC090002.jpg)
This is a down.
We do lots of work over the winter for them and have done so for almost 30 years. We lost the contract once and got it back after a couple years because the new guy was cutting off the skin and upholstering over the old strip. After a couple years the pads didn't fit on the rides anymore and some of the Tnut holes were covered over. So it's sort of a selling point that we 'do it right'
I made this thing that I use for stripping pads and seats and what not-
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P5080006.jpg&hash=6c45d821cbfdcacc5cccac7ff7b59d56) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view¤t=P5080006.jpg)
I use it to weasel under the vinyl between the staples and the edge of the board and pry up
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P5080004.jpg&hash=5596584f5e7105e59fb18616703938a3) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view¤t=P5080004.jpg)
It looks awkward because I'm trying to take a picture but it works great. Most of the time it rips the fabric from under the staple or rips one leg up. It's my go-to tool for stripping. It isn't always the best but it's the first I go for. I call it the Quicker Ripper
Thanks Peppy. I now have tool envy! Do you need a shop volunteer? I was peeking at your other photos. I'm impressed! I could use a working vacation, and I do play well with others.
Hey peppy, that stripping tool looks like it can do the job. I can imagine you getting pulled over by the police and you have that tool in your car. LOL "Honest officer. It's an upholstery tool!" LOL
Hey, your email is 'fartface6000'. Does that mean that there are 5999 other people who chose 'fartface' before you did?
gene
Restaurants and Pizza places are mostly hard to deal with; price is mostly all what counts.
When taking off the old vinyl I use the bantam bully from superior pneumatic.
It has some useful attachments for staple removal.
Perfect for this kind of job; especially if one encounters a situation where the previous upholsterer
did not remove all the old vinyl and just stapled over it.
Peppy - rollercoasters...I never thought about that. Interesting. Wondering what your pricing structure is? Per piece, or did you quote a price for the whole lot...do you replace the foam? And how did you get a contract like that...did you approach them, or vice versa?
Yes Gene, there was quite a run on fartfaces a while back. I was late to the party. It's only embarrassing most of the time when I'm asked for it.
I reccomend everyone build a quicker ripper. I made it out of some thick steel about an inch wide tapering down to about 1/4" at the tip. Then I spent some time with a file rounding the tip over. The handle I traced from a wood hand saw.
Cthomps- we're kind of chock a block with volunteers at the moment. A co-op student, an upholsterer in training, and a sewer in training. Try back in the spring, we might be ready for a new batch of 'un-helpers'.
We price the pads per pad. We have prices for new boards, new foam, and new skins. We replace 'as needed'. It's hard, when you strip them boards that looked okay turn out to be rotten. Sometimes they make the boards sometimes we do. It depends on their budget and what their accountants will say. It's a big operation so there's a lot of beauracracy.
Legend has it that a foreman had a boat at the marina in town and had some seats recovered by us. The next time he was up he brought a side pad from one of the rides and asked if we could recover it. He took it back with him and we've had it ever since. They used to do it all in house but I guess they got sick of running an upholstery shop.
Come on Peppy, I work hard. I have been sewing since I was 3. 3rd generation professional seamstress. 1st generation wanna be upholster, however :D
Job done and delivered. Here is what I learned.
1. Gum... seriously?
2. Measure a whole bunch of times before you cut. Barely made it with fabric provided. oops.
3. You all are really physically fit! I'm so sore and can hardly move.
4. My hands hurt and have blisters. Duct gives good protection.
5. After the first 3 I could stretch and staple in 15 minutes.
6. Spend money and get good tools.
7. Fleet Farm Supply has pneumatic staplers for 25. My 16.00 one died. Open till 9:00. 9:05 if you politely knock.
8. You can drink beer after 5:00 when working on restaurant booths.
9. I made the most money I have ever made on a project, while creating a job for another!
10. No worries on bills this month.
11. Can now afford to buy a better stapler!
12. I really enjoy doing this much better than altering party dresses!
13. I couldn't have done this without all of your help. Thank you so much!!!!!!
I will let you know when the next project comes. I will need help!
As soon as I figure out the photo bucket thing again, I will post a picture:)
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1049.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs385%2Fcthomps123%2Fdennysboothpic.jpg&hash=4020e11412b56f631b14d5d973b66f8a) tada! hope this works.
So did the owner do his own "wrap job" on the backs?
Yours looks great BTW.
Thank you. And yes he did. They had ripples. Not enough staples, I'm guessing. I would have never let them leave the shop the way they looked. I understand that people's standards are different. I am not sure anyone else would notice. My novice helper noticed right away however.
I'll bet the owner would've noticed ripples if they'd been on your work!
It's funny how people can have such high standards......until they have to do it.
Great job. They look nice. :)
Chris
Ain't that the truth.
Gosh, I was at a house today. I had to wait for 10 minutes while the homeowner complained to the contractor/architect about his painters splattering on the woodwork, and several other picky complaints. When I left she was out on the driveway with the carpet installers who had already installed the MBR and stairway and had just cut a piece for the dining room. She thought it was the wrong shade of white and was going to get her sample (never mind that whites are very susceptible to metamerism with different light.) Personally, though, I would classify her wardrobe as "frumpy and dumpy," right down the the support hose.
Quote from: sofadoc on September 17, 2012, 11:37:02 am
I'll bet the owner would've noticed ripples if they'd been on your work!
It's funny how people can have such high standards......until they have to do it.
Wow Keith, your smart. I love new words. Had to look it up.
For those of you in my boat; metamerism. A spectral power distribution describes the proportion of total light emitted, transmitted, or reflected by a color sample at every visible wavelength; it precisely defines the light from any physical stimulus. However, the human eye contains only three color receptors (cone cells), which means that all colors are reduced to three sensory quantities, called the tristimulus values. Metamerism occurs because each type of cone responds to the cumulative energy from a broad range of wavelengths, so that different combinations of light across all wavelengths can produce an equivalent receptor response and the same tristimulus values or color sensation.
Wiki
I am soooo gonna use this one!
Metamerism is just a sesquipedalian word meaning looking
different color under different conditions. Commonly occurs under several different conditions:
- Ambient lighting and light source. Examples: natural light, incandescent and fluorescent lighting
- Direction of observation. Examples: Diamond veneered table tops where quandrants look the same from one viewing angle, Walk around and some corners appear dark and the others light, keep walking and they get the same, then dark and light corners switch.
- Different people can see colors differently due to their eye physiology
"Never use a large word when a diminutive one will do?"
So now when a customer asks me why the nap is upside down on one cushion, I'll just say
"Oh that's just a metamerism.......you silly sesquipedalian!"
It is very common in fashion fabrics as well. I just didn't know there was a word for it. Love your quote! Good for a chuckle this morning!