There is a great thread going on regarding how your time is spent in the shop, that is time spent on billable hours opposed non billable hours.
That is an important subject to anyone in business, it especially applies to a small custom operation.
In my business some business is absolutely a loser because of the overhead related to getting the job (closing the sale). Small jobs can fit into this category, but not always.
Then, my shop efficiency is higher on some types of work. For example, a seam needs sewn in a furniture related item or much auto work takes a lot less customer time than a decorating problem.
Therefore, maintenance type work in general can be handled more efficiently, than a comprehensive type sale, where the item is totally redone. Another type job that raises the billable side of the equation is; newer furniture requiring repairs opposed to total redo. repairs are more cut and dried, the issue is to fix what broke and do it reasonably fast.
Repairs, in essence, are proving to contribute more to the billable column. Obviously, more shop profits.
Any other experiences out there similar? Do you have a speciality of sufficient volume that affords you with a healthy income?
If so, list the specialty. Good ideas are never to be ignored. I read once where a shop (auto trim) specialized in leather seat kits, that is the shop made seat upholstery for certain cars and was doing quite well going in that direction. Sales were primarily, I understood, via a website. Get the order, cut from a pattern, sew, and ship. Pretty efficient, huh? I would imagine a lot of communication is by email. One can take care of that at their best time.
Thanks,
Doyle
As much as we like to gripe about the new furniture coming out of China the repair work from it is a money maker. I have found the simpler a piece is the better the profits are. Antiques are usually time hogs and hard to make a profit when you have to strip down to the frame. But without them I'd be out of business.
You got that right Kody.
Repairs are not all bad, my income went up by saying "yes" I repair also.
There are a lot of man hours in traditional work, as much as I enjoy it. But I think we all enjoy making money! Grin
Actually, some of the newer stuff is a challenge, just to fix it. So, it isn't all boring stuff. A lot has been changed in the technology of building things, that can be a different head problem too.
To the point of making a profit, I guess this thread was started to avoid Rich's point, of noting how you spend your time and what doing. To keep the issue simple, I find that efficiency goes up when doing something that can be done fairly quickly and do a lot of it. So, you are in concert with the repair thing.
Just wish parts were easier to get for some of this new stuff.
Being mostly imported doesn't make that easier.
Doyle
Doyle, good follow up to the time thread.
I think any time one deviates from the original design of the work, the time spent goes up dramatically. I'm reminded of my years in my auto trim business. Repair work on dealer cars, inserts, convertible tops, vinyl tops were all good, predictable profit. But as soon as there was a request to do something different than the original such as with a custom interior or interior component, it became a minefield of time consumers. Time spent on the design, time spent reworking the design, time spent dealing with unintended consequences of the design etc. The problem I had and I think many in this business have is that the custom work is so much more intriguing than the straightforward stuff.
I will say this, though; when your engrossed in enjoyable work, you will find it easier to plug along than you might on work that may become boring over time.
Rich
I like my little niche. I thought I would starve jumping into the RV world and doing what I do but it turned out to be a huge profit maker. I have healthy margins in my orders and thankfully, with being hooked up with Miami Corp and MiamiMike my margins stay healthy. They do an awesome job for me helping me hold down my costs through large scale purchases and with shipping. They do a few extra things for me ( like moving stock to Jacksonville to lessen my shipping costs which results in flat rate shipping of $ 10 per order). But I am also buying full rolls of fabric most of the time ( 60 - 65 yard rolls ) so you would expect price breaks. Just by moving stock around for me saves me a huge amount of money in shipping costs over the course of a month
It would appear on the surface that my $ 130 per hour average rate is higher then most but I also put in a lot of extra time that I do not calculate ( I should though ). My rate has been as high as $ 175 per hour on a few jobs but the one thing many do not realize is that I have had to bust my ass to carve out this niche. I hold numerous seminars every year in Florida, SC and Indiana ). I support two motorcoach associations with renting booths and buying advertising at their rallys. I also act as an expert to the members on slide topper/awning issues and participate on their internet forums. I have also had to spend a great deal of time getting educated in not only fabrics and thread but also the mechanics of the toppers and awnings, their internal parts, etc. which includes motorized and non motorized versions.
I used to think I was greedy by making as much as I do but then I also know how much time, effort and expense has gone into building this business and my niche market.
Yes, I will agree, I can turn around products quicker then most other upholstery sectors and I make a bigger profit and much faster then if I was doing work in other sectors of our trade ( simply because I am to slow with other work ). When I think I am making easy money I need to remind myself it has taken a great deal of time, energy and money to get to where I am not to mention maintaining my presence in this sector. Just the time it has taken to forge relationships and a reputation within the RV world has been a killer.
In regards to doing repairs, I no longer do them. They eat up precious time for me and the payback is not worth the headaches of having to clean my machine. $ 40 for a restitch versus 130 for a topper. No brainer. :)
I am extremely happy with my niche market but I also have days I wished I was doing something different like car's, furniture or something. I see your pictures or read stories on your latest projects and I get VERY envious. Canvas work, while highly profitable is fairly easy and boring as heck. I consider many of you guys masters. I con sider myself a monkey with a sewing machine....lol... :)
Chris
I don't have nearly the experience a lot of you have so am still learning and everything takes me longer than it should, but I have found repair work or replacement (making a new cover while using the old as a pattern) make me the most money...I especially like boat covers and Bimini tops, they are larger but have less seams so go together quicker....I also enjoy recovering boat seats, as long as customer wants it all to stay the same its quick and easy, its when they order something custom that it takes time to design and pattern
It took me sometime JD to get to where I am today. I was real slow when I first started and I assume everyone is slow when they first take on and learn this trade.
In my type of work it is so straight forward that speed becomes your best friend. It is almost like assembly line work. I have finally reached the point to where I can kick these toppers and awnings and solar screens out fast without compromising quality. I studied every step of the manufacturing process and was able to shave off a great deal of time by changing the way I did things.
I can make a brand new topper almost as fast as I can do a restitch. Actually I can do it faster when you consider the time it takes to rip out the old thread and re-stitch it plus clean out the sand and dirt on the machine. This is the reason why I no longer do repair work.
I turned away alot of repair work last winter because I was so bogged down with new orders. I couldn't afford to take on the repair work. I did one repair this last summer and I calculated it costing me approximately $ 200 in lost production of new toppers.
The problem I have is the market price is already set for re-stitching jobs. The same holds true for new orders. I do not set the price, the market sets the price for me. Thankfully the market price ( and margins ) for new products is very high.
I am curious to know when all of you do repairs do you charge like you would for new work in regards to hourly rates ? Or is there a set market price for some repairs ? Most of the restitching jobs I have heard of from RV'ers have been around the 40 - 50 range. So I cannot charge by the hour because the market has set that price.
I know I have read before where some of you have said it is easier and quicker to make all new versus repair some things. Just wondering.
Chris
today I redid a Bimini top, restitched it and replaced all the zippers, I charged hourly for that, it wasn't too bad 2 hours to redo all stitches and replace 4 zippers so 100 bucks and he walked out the door happy...the cover was in great shape but the elements had taken a toll on the thread...that job made me profit
JD, I think you are undercharging. 4 zippers and an entire restitch for $100? Sounds like the zippers should've probably cost $50....I don't know, maybe some of the others will chime in, but it sounds like you did the guy a favor. Unless he bought the zippers, of course.
the 4 zippers I replaced were 10" long and I got them for 2 bucks a piece, so 8 dollars, 2 hours of labor at 45 an hour, 90 dollars and the thread 2 bucks...I think I could have done it faster too on the next one...in my area the high end shops charge around 65 an hour...I have no overhead to speak of, and with my disability move slower than the other guys (closest is around 70 miles from me) so because I am slower I charge less...in a few years when I can consider myself proficient, I might charge more...
JD:
Like you, when I first started I was slow as well so I never charged as much as others would have. I also lacked some confidence in my abilities and felt my work was not very good so I had a hard time charging what others would have. it took a long time till I gained confidence in my work.
Taking into account how slow I was I never charged full hourly rate. I felt it wasn't my customers fault I was slow and that I was learning so why charge them for my inefficiencies ? I started out charging $ 20 per hour because I was working out of my trailer and felt my work sucked. Then went to $ 35 per hour. Then to $ 50 then to $ 65.
Today my rates are dictated by my competitors, all of which are large companies. They set the rates for each slide topper/awning. I charge just under what they charge. Depending on the dealer I can be anywhere from dead even with their prices to $ 250 underneath them on a full quad slide topper order. My competitors sell through a large dealer network. They do not sell to the public. I could charge more then the others based on the fact that my toppers and awnings are all of much higher quality ( Sattler fabric, Solarfix thread and double perimeter stitching ) but to be honest with my profit margins the way they are I would feel guilty charging more.
I just want to make a decent living. I am not looking to get rich. If that was the case I would sell my machines and equipment and go into another trade like maybe opening a brothel..........:)
Chris
yeah that sounds like me...I started around 20 an hour, up to 35 as confidence grew, now I am at 45, I am not looking to get rich either, as long as I have enough cash flow to cover the utilities, and pay for the mortgage so that I can have a huge shop to play around in then I am happy. It sounded cheap but really the amount of work was not much, I did it fast and other than the thread and 4 small zippers I had no upfront costs. I also believe that just starting out doing it a little cheaper will get more customers to start spreading your name. Today I start work on a pontoon boat cover, again it is probably under-priced, but I figured since the customer brought in his old cover, and I do not have to take time patterning, then 900 was a fair price...will let ya know when I am done if I turned a profit or not lol....and I forgot again to take pictures of the restitich...hopefully I remember during this!
I have days I miss doing what I used to do. I started out doing solar screens for RV's but I also took in any and all work ( except furniture ). I have done everything from boat interiors to gun holsters to sewing patches on motorcycle jackets and vests.
I used to do restitching on all kinds of things from motorcycle covers to awnings and gazebo tops. I liked the mixture of different things that came into the shop back then.
Yes my work now is a money maker but it is so boring it drives me nuts. I have days I really need to force my old ass out to the shop because I dread making another slide topper. It is so monotonousness. :)
Chris
[quoteYes my work now is a money maker but it is so boring it drives me nuts. I have days I really need to force my old ass out to the shop because I dread making another slide topper. It is so monotonousness.][/quote]
Hey Chris, I'm not saying this because it's something I'd do (actually, been there, done that, hated it!) but since your work is fairly straightforward, would it make sense to train someone to do it to alleviate some of your boredom?
Rich
I actually considered it last winter when I was so buried in orders. Then I got to thinking about paying taxes, salaries, all the paperwork involved with an employee, social security, workers comp, etc and said screw it. :)
I talked with the head of Sattler North America during a seminar him and I did together. He said he knew of some contract sewers that I could use if I got really far behind again. They are specialized shops I guess that do marine canvas work and other things and work for companies as contractors.
My big concern would be quality though. I am extremely anal about my quality. It has to be perfect or it doesn't get shipped.
Chris
Chris, if the market is there in sufficient volume to get support go for it. Take small steps at a time, then the change won't be too much to deal with.
Small steps, for example find someone who want coffee money to do things like sewing. Where would Ford be today if Henry remained hands on? Dumb anology but said to merly say it might turn out fine and better for everyone.
Today, being small has disadvantages, bottom line is we all have to work and manage smarter.
Take a deep breath and continue to analyze and review the situation. Someday I can say I knew the founder of that corporation. :D
Doyle
"Someone who wants coffee money" can wind up suing for workers comp, medical payments for injuries, discrimination, or claiming that they were an employee and not a subcontractor. Oh, paying them cash under the table thinking that local, state, and federal tax agencies who are strapped for income wouldn't be interested?
Just some thoughts...
gene
my CPA told me that hiring someone as a contractor but having them work in your shop doesn't count...it might have worked in the past but now if they felt like claiming unemployment, whether you had them on a W-2 or a 1099 they are still considered your employee and can claim workers comp, unemployment, etc...under the table is not an easy way to go either, especially if you keep your books straight, if they dont claim the taxes you end up footing the bill!
It was explained to me (by my CPA) several years ago that if I supervise them in any way, I cannot count them as contract labor.
But like JD says, the laws and definitions may have changed.
There used to be a handful PASS/FAIL questions to determine if someone was an independent contractor or employee, that fell into
* Behavioral control
* Financial control
* Relationship of worker and the firm
http://www.jolanders.com/bookkeeping/10_employee_and_subcontractor_information/employee_vs_subcontractor_2.php#.UEUqepYnD90
Now, it's a bit more complex because "You didn't build that business by yourself." http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss8.pdf
Thanks for the info Keith.
My partner is supposedly an independant contractor for a company that makes pharmaceutical computerized drug dispensing equipment (she's phone tech support). But of course they tell her when to work (a set schedule), how to work, and she has to attend meetings. But when it comes to the good stuff like benefits and paid vacation, she's on her own. I can see from these checklists that she's probably more like an employee, but this company wants to have their cake and eat it too.
My son owns a large tech company. He has employees scattered all over the world ( tech's ). He used to have all American workers and would never farm out work overseas then he started seeing a trend here. He had tech's come on board, would work hard till they were eligible for unemployment and then screw off. He would release them and they would file for benefits.
He pays his techs very good money and they had awesome benefits ( Blue Cross, 401 K, etc. ) and he paid them large bonuses every year at Christmas time. Because his techs are all young ( they seem to be the only ones who can grasp the computer programming they use ) they didn't care if they got canned. They would sit back and collect unemployment and my son was stuck going back out on the street and hiring new employees, train them and start the cycle all over. He had several techs without a high school diploma making $ 50 K a year.
They were so dang good with the programming he didn't care about their education. But their young age really brought them down in regards to their work ethics.
He closed down their corporate headquarters in VA and put all the employees on home based offices. This created a problem as some were not disciplined to work independent of supervision. So he then started hiring contractors to do the work. One got fired and the State said he was not a contractor and was actually an employee so he got unemployment benefits.
So my son got tired of the BS and started hiring techs from Europe. No benefits, no unemployment, etc. He still pays them bonuses and actually pays them a bigger salary but no longer has the headaches. He hated to do it as he has always been a huge supporter of the USA and American workers but then his products and services are worldwide now and covers the globe.
He maintains some staff in the USA but hires techs overseas. He kept all of their security work and data centers in the USA. It is a damn shame to see and it still bothers him but they were getting killed with costs over the BS. After talking with him about all that he goes through I decided I would stay small and a one man shop. :)
Chris
There have been instances where people have sued for things like workman's comp, FICA contribution, etc. Just saying.
Quote from: jojo on September 04, 2012, 06:35:53 am
Thanks for the info Keith.
My partner is supposedly an independant contractor for a company that makes pharmaceutical computerized drug dispensing equipment (she's phone tech support). But of course they tell her when to work (a set schedule), how to work, and she has to attend meetings. But when it comes to the good stuff like benefits and paid vacation, she's on her own. I can see from these checklists that she's probably more like an employee, but this company wants to have their cake and eat it too.
I used to work with someone who left the company and got hired on somewhere else. They would never "hire an employee" off the street. You had to work as a contractor for six months. I always thought that was a neat idea because you can bluff your way through an interview and even behave for a while, but generally you can't fake it for six months. Nowadays, you'd need to be careful, as an employer, to keep the job for sure as an "independent contractor" status.
I used to work with a bunch of people from Europe. Contractors there are popular because the labor laws are very strict. At that time, at least, you could only lay off an employee on two days a year. And you have to give them six months notice. I don't remember the days, but say it's January 1 and July 1. If on January 3, you decide that someone needs to be laid off, they would be employed for the rest of the year because you could not give them notice until July 1. Talk about "lame ducks?"
Just as much as we prefer to gripe concerning the new furniture taken from China this repair do the job from this can be a money producer. I have discovered the simpler a chunk is the higher the gains are. Antiques are generally time hogs and also hard to make a profit if you have to strip down to the shape. But without them I'd be from business.
Back during my business consultant days I had a client located in England. She was having a problem with one of her employees ( namely he was stealing stuff ). She had a company on retainer and this company did nothing but coach employers on the laws and help them when they needed to fire someone.
She had to document things, get proof, etc. before firing the guy. In another instance she had a guy that was lazier then hell and it took her a full year and heavy documentation, numerous warnings, etc. to sack the guy.
You think our labor laws are bad for employers they are nothing compared to the ones in the UK and elsewhere in Europe.
Chris
Just finished my first full boat cover (start to finish new materials, not a repair job) and actually turned a profit, again I was cheaper than the other guys and could have probably charged and made more, but I was happy with the profit I made..
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1087.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj467%2Fjdackerson%2FPontoon%2520Cover%2Fth_IMG_4804.jpg&hash=22a712f6ca51c857e3c7abf28229543c) (http://s1087.photobucket.com/albums/j467/jdackerson/Pontoon%20Cover/?action=view¤t=IMG_4804.jpg)
it was copy of an existing cover so I did not have to pattern off the boat, just measure and cut, and in a few cases cut off part of old cover to use as pattern on the weird angle stuff
I know in my business, repetition = greater $profit - doing fifty identical restaurant chairs will be more profitable than 12 sets of 4 chairs. I find I can charge something around 20% less for the bulk job than I would for a one or two item job. But once in the groove of doing the same thing again and again, I get more assembly line type efficiency/mentality and whip through larger jobs fairly quickly.
The more custom a job is, the more time spent doing intangible head scratching or trial and error that I can't bill for.
Jeff
I dont do so much repairs now that im in florida nut when i had my waterfront shop in Nh i hX alot of walki ins bring inanrepait on saturday. A resew or windows needing new vinyl. Resew ana average runabout top I charge like 75 and hour labor And i could resew it in less mYbe 20 mins. Or a new eindow vinyl on a 22' boats side window less then kne yard of 30 roll. Inyl in get $35. And 1O mins work.
One thing inalway hated was the guy that would. Ring me a
BimIni top to resew frames and all id have to r
Ove the stews sometime frozen in place to romovemthe crame from the canvas.
Ot of times id to a wuick easy fix for free to make a happy repea customer with a larger project.