Tried to get a wholesale account set up today, and the place said they needed 250 bucks to set it up and send me sample books....I said I could not afford that right now, they said OK, lets set you up an internet account...you can look through samples online and order swatches if you need them,,,I said sure that sounds good, they said OK that would be 100 bucks....
is this common practice among suppliers? I have to pay them so I can buy from them?? makes no sense at all!
Is the $250 refundable with your first few orders? Or is it gone for good? I've never given a supplier one thin dime for sample books. If they don't want my business, they can take a long walk off a short pier.
I REALLY don't understand the 100 bucks for an online account.
They say it is refundable, but the 250 requires 1000 bucks in sales the first 12 months, and the 100 bucks requires 500 in sales the first 12, I just cant justify risking 25% on the off chance I don't meet the 1000 bucks in sales...I want to do more furniture and open up more work, but its not my primary business right now so not worth the risk....it was one of the suppliers you referenced, I will personal message it, because I dont like to drop names when I complain lol
heres the email she sent me after I talked on phone, just in case I changed my mind...
(Name Removed) is the fastest growing supplier of mid-priced multipurpose fabrics, to the design trade. We also offer a complete line of upholstery fabrics, vinyl, leather, and supplies to the upholstery trade, and furniture manufacturers.
Most of our fabric ranges between $18 to $35 per yard, wholesale.
Below is the information on opening up a fabric account with (Name Removed):
$250 initial investment to open a (Name Removed) account:
- Receive 10 of our best fabric sample books to get started
- Dealer access for (Name Removed) website
- Free memo samples as needed
*After reaching $1000 in sales, we will reimburse you for the $250 initial investment. This goal has to be met within 12 months of opening the account.*
* New books to come: Require at least $2000 in sales (per year) to receive books at no charge.*
Yeah, if you're in a rural area and just starting to dabble in furniture upholstery, it might be pretty tough to hit a grand in 12 months. But then, if there aren't many retail fabric stores in your neck of the woods, then you won't have as much COM, so you might be able to sell that much. Hard to say.
I have never had to pay to have an account set up. Sounds to me like they are trying to make up for dropping sales, I would look into some different suppliers before I sent them a dime. Its kind of like having to pay admission to enter a store, I was in Maine antiquing and any shop that required I pay admission to enter was left unvisited.
(name removed) is pretty easy to infer with a quick Google search ;D Just sayin'
.
true, I don't really mind ya knowing who it is, but just on general principle I try not to use names when I post stuff, but google is always an option
Things change, I can remember when suppliers wanted to send me more samples. This new suppliers, I already had more samples than I needed. But, these books cost and they can't do that, nor is it smart.
Must be something to it, there have been a lot of fabric people close their doors.
Consumers are buying from pictures on the internet, where ever they can get "cheap", I am sure that eats into distributors, with sample programs, business.
Add in the discount retailers, the big ones, it compounds the problem.
I get calls for prices to recover something and they announce "I have my own material". Often it turns out they have bought drapery material and now want an upholsterer to do upholstery with it. The flimsy material slows an upholsterer down.
My walking foot machines can be to strong for drapery fabric and often it ravels, makes me want to send it back and tell the customer to do it them selves.
There is one thing consumers know about furniture and that is price, but little about what they are getting. When confronted about using drapery fabrics for upholstery, they counter with something like " I wanted it to match my drapes".
No body wins but the discount vendors who don't have to fuss with the work.
My .02 and it is worth about what you paid. :)
Doyle
I got a letter from United Fabrics in Pennsauken NJ. They own Pacific Hide & Leather, which has sample books in my shop.
The letter was refuting allegations from a "competitor" that they sell directly to consumers over the internet. The letter was sent to "set the record straight" by clarifying that in '06, they opened a retail outlet store in Rehobeth Beach, Delaware. The store sold closeouts and overstocks. They sold the store in '09. The store also had a website, hence the allegation that they were selling directly to the public.
I only give them a couple of orders a year, so it really wasn't necessary to set the record straight with me. I never even hear rumors about them.
But I see 3rd party sellers on the internet all the time selling Greenhouse and Charlotte fabrics, as well as several others. My customers can go online and buy the same fabrics that I sell. And they get them for about 20% over wholesale. And they get better shipping rates than I do (sometimes free). The 3rd party seller makes a quick 20% for doing nothing. They don't even stock any fabric. It's "drop-shipped" directly to the customer.
We complain about those crooked E-bay stores, when many of them are probably virtual storefronts set up by OUR wholesale suppliers (NOT accusing any suppliers that support, or otherwise frequent this forum).
Like Doyle said, "Things change".
Companies used "wholesale" pricing as a way to pay for a massive sales force - those vendors that would sell their products to the end user.
Those days are going the way of the buggy whip as people use the internet to find the lowest prices. And with the economy as it is, companies and industries are doing whatever they can to make money where ever they can.
I mentioned before on this forum that a customer of mine got a Robert Allen fabric cheaper at JoAnn's with a 40% off coupon cheaper than my wholesale price. But then she found it even cheaper online, including the shipping.
The bolt of fabric was shipped to me from a Robert Allen warehouse address. It didn't even have the name of the ebay seller on it.
Times change. It's up to us to change or get run over. I'm glad I don't make buggy whips.
gene
The price difference between suppliers is a lot different too, I have used a supplier out of washington for some time, takes a week to ship to me, so was very happy to find a local supplier where I get material over night in most cases.
Today I called my local supplier to get prices on some sunbrella fabric....the standard sunbrella they quoted me 21/yard my price and sunbrella plus was almost 40/yd
My supplier in washington sells it for 18/yd on standard and 21/yd on plus...needless to say I ordered from washington and just let the customer know it would be a week before I got his materials!
JD, if you're going to be doing marine canvas and upholstery you need to set up an account with either TriVantage or Manart Hirsch. TriVantage is a bigger company with more distributions centers - one in Missouri, I see which may be close to you, but Manart has slightly better prices. TriV currently has Sunbrella 60" for just under $15 in cuts (cheaper for full rolls, but some colors are higher priced - usually reds and yellows) and just under $19 for Plus. TriVantage also has good prices on top fittings and hardware and fasteners and a large selection of marine grade vinyls.
Also MiamiCorp has a Cincinnati location and stocks lots of marine stuff like vinyls and cover fabrics and hardware. They don't sell Sunbrella, but have lots of others to choose from.
June
I have no idea why you wouldn't share the vendor's name. It's their policy and it's going to apply to every upholsterer who calls them. Why make the rest of the community figure it out instead of just telling us? Or would it be helpful if I replied:
"Hey you should call [name withheld] and set up a new account with them. They have great books, they are free if you pay shipping and the sales rep [name withheld] will generally quote you a price 10% off wholesale if you commit to buying $1k per month."
Sorry, maybe I got up on the wrong side of the bed but the usefulness of this thread is really compromised if we don't actually tell each other which vendors do a good job of supporting their clients and which don't. Although maybe it makes us feel better posting the story?
On a related note, for Sunbrella fabric specifically, I've found I can buy it cheaper off the internet than I can from Trivantage by just googling what I need. But I finally found a good sales rep at Keyston - they stock Sunbrella out of their Arizona branch. He will quote me a Sunbrella price that is around 30% less than Trivantage.
IMO, if you want good pricing, you need to get on a first-name basis with an individual sales rep.
I agree with crosjn. The whole "$250 start-up.....$1000 a year" thing is pretty common throughout the industry nowadays. It's their publicly stated policy. It's kinda their way of saying "serious inqueries only". Nothing illegal or even unethical about it.
I come from a different time, when sample books were free. Greenhouse (yeah, I said the "G" word) has told me that once I reach a $1000 every year, they will send me new books. I reach that goal by March (at the very latest) every year. The day that I start paying for sample books will be the day that I "hang 'em up".
But if I were just starting out in the business today, I would understand that it's just the way things are done now. You just have to decide whether or not you want to "dive off into the deep end".
One reason is that they're not here to defend themselves or to justify their rationale.
However, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+the+fastest+growing+supplier+of+mid-priced+multipurpose+fabrics%2C+to+the+design+trade.
Quote from: crosjn on August 23, 2012, 11:01:07 am
I have no idea why you wouldn't share the vendor's name. It's their policy and it's going to apply to every upholsterer who calls them. Why make the rest of the community figure it out instead of just telling us? Or would it be helpful if I replied:
I don't name the supplier because I was just ranting, it did not matter who supplier was and I believe in keeping names out if it is nothing more than a rant....like they said it is common now, so I was not trying to bad mouth any specific company, just ranting about them wanting money up front....it is hard for a start up to toss out that coin when fabrics of this type are not the primary business, but something I am trying to expand into. If they did something that is unethical and I was pointing that out, I would say who/where to warn my fellow upholsterers!
Quote from: crosjn on August 23, 2012, 11:01:07 am
On a related note, for Sunbrella fabric specifically, I've found I can buy it cheaper off the internet than I can from Trivantage by just googling what I need. But I finally found a good sales rep at Keyston - they stock Sunbrella out of their Arizona branch. He will quote me a Sunbrella price that is around 30% less than Trivantage.
I've been buying from Keyston for probably 6 or 7 years. I get most of my marine vinyls and a lot of supplies like sew foam and stainless staples from them but their Sunbrella used to be a LOT higher than Manart Hirsch. I don't buy much at all from TriVantage, but JDUpholstery might do well to buy from a supplier close by to save shipping costs. In any case, I'll have to price Keyston's Sunbrella again and compare with Manart. Both of them are right down the road from me. And you're correct, it's cheaper off the Internet, but I can't be sure I'm getting first quality or even Sunbrella (might be CoastGuard or some knockoff) and my reputation hangs in the balance.
June
Quote from: byhammerandhand on August 23, 2012, 03:59:46 pm
One reason is that they're not here to defend themselves or to justify their rationale.
There's really nothing to defend or justify. Those big ring books (or a set of smaller ones) probably cost $200 to manufacture and distribute. If they want a firm commitment in cash form, that's certainly their discretion.
Where I think that wholesalers drop the ball nowadays, is that they don't visit shops too much anymore to verify that a legitimate business (deserving of FREE sample books) exists.
Used to be, a salesman would roll into town, check the phone book for local shops, and walk in the shops with an armload of free sample books. With more and more stitchers working out of their garage now, there are just too many "virtual" storefronts.
Another problem is that sample books don't stay current as long as they used to. So they have to be choosy about doling them out.
JD:
I was in your shoes a few short years ago. I was just starting up and had a helluva time getting good suppliers to work with me. I started out with Rochford and they sent me a sample book with what I needed and charged me a fee. They also said they would refund the entire amount once I hit $ 300 in orders. Yeah right. I never seen that money again. So I got PO'ed with their over the top shipping costs and went to Bry Tech down here in Florida. I had a few issues with them and did not like having a dedicated person to handle my account so I looked elsewhere. I finally got to the point that I was getting sick and tired of dealing with so many different suppliers.
This is when I hooked up with MiamiMike from Miami Corp. He is a member here and helps all of us from time to time so I tested the waters with them and found they were an awesome company to deal with. Mike looks after me quite well and is always there for me. He set me up with all my sample books I needed plus wall carpet charts and other things. Free. He has introduced me to the manufacturers reps and honchos and they now also supply me with a ton of marketing materials to help me promote my products and business. I now sole source everything I buy through Miami and this has really helped me as well because I spend less time chasing products and prices down. I just ordered some fabric today from them, the entire transaction took 3 minutes. I call, give them my name, tell them what I want and bingo within two hours it is packaged and on its way. They have all my financials ( credit card, etc. ) on file so the transactions are fast and smooth.
What is sad is I order so often all the sales people know my name. I just mention my name and they have my account pulled up. What this means is I order alot of product but the point is there was a time when I was ordering 3 yard cuts. Mike and Miami Corp still took a chance on me and treated me like I was a big customer. My business has grown and I now order 60 yard rolls at a time but the way they treat me now is no different then back when I was small.
I admit my positive experience with Miami is largely due to Mike. We have become fast friends and I think the world of him. He has saved my ass numerous times. When I had problems in the past with a product or whatever he took care of it. When I screwed up and order he went to bat for me and got me new product quickly. Whenever I have a question about a product he educates me. It is all about customer service and Mike provides some of the best. Because I am a heavy user of Sattler fabrics they keep rolls of certain colors stocked for me in Jacksonville. I could go on and on but the point is, having a personal relationship with your supplier really helps.
They ship out of Jacksonville, Cinci and New York BTW.
Give Mike a call and discuss setting up an account with him. Tell him I sent you which will get you a cup of coffee and a doughnut. :)
Chris
I forgot to add in my last post.
Consider switching from Sunbrella to Recacril or Sattler. Both are much better products and the Rec and Sattler costs are 5 - 7 dollars a yard cheaper.
Recacril and Sattler have a different weave to them which prevents stretching. They are both European made and use premium yarns. They are used exclusively on high end commercial awning jobs and I use them exclusively for my slide toppers and awnings. Both are awesome acrylic fabrics.
There are several of us who have switched to Rec and Sattler and have had great luck with it.
Of course I appreciate the better margins I get by using them as well.
Chris
So I had told the supplier I just was not ready to take the risk, and left it at that...today I got a call from them and they are waiving the deposit and sending me books out, that renews my faith at least, that business still want the little guys selling for them
Quote from: JDUpholstery on August 28, 2012, 07:07:19 am
they are waiving the deposit and sending me books out, that renews my faith at least, that business still want the little guys selling for them
It seems to go in cycles every few years. When sales are good, they stop catering to the little fellas. When sales are down, they reach out to anyone and everyone.
Back in prehistoric times, when travelling salesmen still roamed the Earth, it was common for a salesman to quit one wholesale supplier and go to work for another. When that happened, he took the client list with him, and
voila, you just got yourself another set of sample books!
JD: Glad they came through for you.
Good deal JD. :)
I do not have many sample books but then I do not do furniture. I would assume that this is where you have to have a lot of sample books.
I am curious, how many books do you furniture guys have on hand ?
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on August 28, 2012, 02:41:28 pm
I am curious, how many books do you furniture guys have on hand ?
Too many to count. 200 to 300 for sure. And female customers aren't satisfied until they've gone through every one of them. And if there's a discontinued book somewhere in the cluster, you better believe that's the one they'll pick from.
There are just so many options that samples are way to go....I have tried to look at swatches online with a customer once and just about pulled my hair out!
We've never was required to pay with an account setup. Sounds to me like they making the effort to make upwards for shedding sales, I might look in to some unique suppliers before I directed them the dime. Its kind of like having to pay for admission to help enter the store, I was a student in Maine antiquing as well as any go shopping that needed I shell out admission to help enter had been left unvisited.
was somewhat surprised by the package I got today, The rep said that they would send a couple books, but I got the same package they would have given with the deposit...15 sample books and a bunch of free crap...mousepads, etc...will definitely be trying to send them some orders soon!
Really, if you're inside a rural area and just starting to dabble in furniture upholstery, it might be pretty tough heading to a awesome in 12 several weeks. But and then, if at this time there aren't numerous retail cloth stores in your neck in the woods, then you definately won't have all the COM, so you might be able to sell very much. Hard to mention.