I am currently using a Yamata 5618 that I bought about 18 months ago. I have had zero problems with the machine but I want to purchase a second machine and use the Yamata as a back-up etc. Looking at the Consew 206RB5 and the Juki 1541 and trying to decide between the two. I understand the Juki is made in Japan and the Consew in China. It seems that the Japaneese machine would be better quality based on my experience with other products, however it also cost more $$$$.
Anyone having thoughts on this matter I would appreciate your contribution.
Tim
Check with Greg (Keystone) on this site. I bought a Highlead from him and it's fantastic. A real work horse and very reasonable.
I've been looking at their website, prices are competitive and I do want to support the community here. Kind of got my heart set on a Juki or Consew but still researching. Thanks for the input on the highlead, had not considered that but will have a look at their product line.
I've been extremely happy with my Juki LU-1508, which is the top load version of the DNU-1541. If for some unforeseen reason I had to replace it, I've always thought that I would go with the 1541. It's about $500 cheaper than the 1508, and I have no real preference as to top or bottom load.
But I've been curious about this one:
http://store.keysew.com/single-needle-walking-foot-sewing-machine-msk1541s
It appears to be a generic copy of the Juki for about $300 less. Anybody got any opinions?
I'm starting to think that the anti-China bandwagon is somewhat perpetuated by the E-Bay stores that just drop-ship machines straight to the customer without doing any set-up.
While Consew is getting their machines made in China, the bottom line is that they are still a well respected American company. It's hard for me to believe they would slap their nameplate on a POS.
These theories are all "half-baked". If anyone has another angle, I'm all ears.
It was my understanding that the Juki was also being made in China now. But I could be wrong. Pfaff moved their production I believe to China as well.
The Consew is a Chinese machine but the 206rb5 is still a work horse and a very reliable machine.
I have a Juki N563 and really like it but prefer the Chandler which is my primary machine. I like the bottom load machines mainly because I am so used to them. I also like the fact that they can have the bobbin changed while on the fly and I also like not having to hold/pull the thread when starting a stitch run.
The Chandler has been a great machine and a great value for what I paid for it. I still like the Consew 206 though.
Chris
I also have the Chandler zero problems gregg was very helpful and highly recommended. He was a great help in choosing a machine to fit my budget. Set. The machine up i took it out of the box and off i went
If your looking for a consew206rb, I have one for sale. This is a seiko made in Japan, good shape, email me.
$600.00 you pay the shipping.
Eric
quote][/It was my understanding that the Juki was also being made in China now. But I could be wrong. Pfaff moved their production I believe to China as well.
quote]
Can anyone verify this? The Pfaff website, not long ago indicated that all Pfaff production was moved to Germany by the government.
Some years ago, one Pfaff model, a cheap industrial was started in production in Russia but that flopped early in the plan. This goes back over 20 years ago.
Also, Sieko made in China? When did that happen? To what extent, assembly using Sieko parts perhaps, but does it include parts manufacturing?
Where are the parts made for the Highlead?
Manufacturing is in or has been in a state of flux, we got seats in for CAT and John Deere heavy equipment and both were the same seat built in China. The only difference being the label. From observation, the seats are high tech and are not cheap seats.
China can built as well as anyone if the American spec drives that to happen. Often, Americans want it cheap and spec it accordingly, China is often outsourced to for part of a product requirement, but the assembly may not be accomplished by them. I work on a lot of american new furniture that is basically assembled here but a significant amount of the product may be generated in that country.
Doesn't this bring it full circle to "one could very well get what they pay for"?
There are some very good older machines on the market that would encourage investigation. Is new always better?
Doyle
I could be completely wrong Doyle but I thought Pfaff moved its production to China. maybe Greg or Bob knows for sure.
Does Japan make any sewing machines anymore ?
Chris
According to this, Pfaff, now operating under the name Mauser Spezial has their management and R&D in Germany, while the factory is in China:
http://www.productpilot.com/en/suppliers/pfaff-industrial-taicang-co-ltd/en
It's funny how we yearn for the "good ole days" when everything was manufactured in Japan.
When I was a kid, my dad considered every Japanese product to be a POS.
I agree with Doyle. China is only giving American companies what they are paying for.
If China won't do it, they'll find a village in Zimbabwe that will.
My competitor in town ordered a Pfaff 1245 from an E-bay store. It had to be timed when it arrived. There was a similar story at Carr's Corner recently.
I was recently servicing a late model 60hp Mercury outboard- Made In China stamped right on the serial number tag where it used to say Fondulac Wisconson. I guess it's just the way it is now.
Sofadoc, That Reliable looks interesting, may have to look in to that one.
I recently purchased a Juki 1508N from Keysew, and the machine was made in Japan. Chinese quality, just Japanese quality 50 years ago, is rapidly improving, but not enough for me to risk proven quality for what might be good-enough quality. I think I would have preferred German quality, but Japanese price-performacne quality was good-enough.
Sofadoc that link you provided is very informative, a recent development that is still in transition. Not only does China become the big player in manufacturing of Pfaff, the link clarifies that China has bought them out. Germany no longer owns the company. But there is a flip flop in the deal, China will buy engineering support from Germany. (The U.S. needs jobs, wouldn't it be encouraging if we could support China some way?)
Thanks Sofadoc, very interesting.
Mauser, the new name for the old Pfaff company has great plans in further development and marketing of of the Mauser, which will now include domestic equipment..........like I say very interesting to say the least. Wonder who and where the first dealer will be in America? Or will there be some other marketing approach?
As they say, stay tuned.........
Doyle
Quote from: DB on May 12, 2012, 06:21:54 pm
Wonder who and where the first dealer will be in America? Or will there be some other marketing approach?
Are you talking about a retail dealer for Mauser Spezial sewing machines? As far as I know, all the existing Pfaff dealerships transferred over.
The Pfaff 1245 now says Mauser Spezial on it.....same model.
Gregg has them:
http://store.keysew.com/catalog/product/be954ed280ec44b5ab54efccbf5218c2
Looks like they've gone down a couple hundred bucks since Mauser took over.
HOORAY FOR CHINA!!! :D (sarcasm)
Yes,
In perspective since China has bought Pfaff and have plans to be a front runner in the domestic market, their marketing approach would be expected to change. There is a high dollars domestic market because Mauser, as stated, plans to focus very much on that. That gets them well into embroidery, serging, and quilting. Let's not forget that Phaff was part of a holding group for Viking, Singer, as well as for their products. The domestic market, as demonstrated by Baby Loc and Taconey (sp?) corporation is an arena of big players which Mauser also plans to be with these companies they have bought.
That is why I envision prominent dealers to appear on the scene. Along with this marketing approach it will be interesting to see if the industrial will be included or will be separate.
Another thought, since Mauser has bought these product companies, does this mean that Singer is history also?
You may be right, shops like Greg and Bob may be the market outlet for the domestic as well as the industrial products?
The 1235 takes on a whole different appearance, doesn't it?
Doyle
China is the new Japan of yesteryear.
Alot of the stuff that came out of Japan years ago was junk. People despised anything made in Japan as it was considered crap and manufactured with no standards. Heck the cars back then that came from Japan landed in the USA and the rust cycle had already started. The metal was so bad that entire frames and bodies would rust out in a couple short years. I had a Datsun 240Z that had the frame rust in half and it wasn't that old.
Somewhere along the line Japan got on a quality kick and everything made in japan was of higher standards. Sony TV's were the best you could buy and lasted years. Look at their cars - Toyota for example. They held the # 1 spot for reliability for a long time. Look at Hyundai. Talk about a turn around. Their earlier cars were POS. Now days they make one of the most reliable cars available here. I just bought a Sonata for the wife actually and we both love the car.
I wonder if China will follow the same path and make a large move upward in quality. My Chandler, made in China, seems to be a very well made machine and I have had no issues with it at all. My Tuffsew ( Thompson ) was made in China and was complete junk. The tolerances were so bad it was laughable. The casting of parts looked like a kid did them. But the Chandler is completely different. It makes one believe that the importing companies that contract production out of China has a lot of input into quality.
I suspect India will follow suit once that country modernizes and comes on line and starts manufacturing more products. It is interesting to watch production of common goods being moved around the globe. First from the USA to Japan, then to China and Mexico and now to India. I did buy some tools made in India and I much prefer those to the ones made in China. They seemed better quality.
Did anyone see that a brand new company just started making TV sets ? They are all made in the USA and inside a brand new factory. They are sold out and their production is fully booked out. Maybe we have gone full circle. :)
Chris
Chris your overview is generally the situation in a word.
China isn't going to be a main driver in the international economy, it already is and they are quite capable of producing high quality stuff. There ace in the hole today is a cheap but highly competitive work force. They can produce good quality and do work cheap.
What you say about India and their economic thrust is true, economist have predicted this would happen for years now. They also are a very intelligent work force who will work for peanuts.
There is nothing the "uppidity" countries can do but cut labor cost if they want to compete. If we don't compete then we already see what will happen, first we live off the government then after that back is broken, then we become a Greece.
This will draw all kinds of comments, but to get this country back into manufacturing where labor is required we first have to lower our wage standards and "want" to be a production stalwart again. If we can manufacture without labor, meaning develop machines that will practically take the labor cost out, we will be back in business again.
This idea if we get a better team in Washington is not all bad but Washington can't do us much good in this arena except stop taxing and get out of the way (reduce the size of government).
That's enough, this is an upholstery discussion board.
Regarding the sewing machines coming out of China, I see no reason they can't be good. I am sure some today are good. China, India, and there are others with a very intelligent labor force are a major factor that other countries will have to deal with today and in the future.
There are several bottom lines to all this but one is but whatever, unions are not the savior for our workers today. It isn't because they have bad ideas, it is because our competition is beating their brains out!
There is no loyalty today, price sells, and the numbers are bigger when the products are just as good, no matter who makes them, like Chris is saying.
Gone!
Doyle
Quote from: Mojo on May 14, 2012, 05:07:02 am
I wonder if China will follow the same path and make a large move upward in quality.
Probably. And when that day comes, China will drastically increase their prices.
Their workers will get tired of working for pennies, and demand decent wages, just like Japan did.
I thought Hyundai was Korean? My daughter bought a Hyundai back in '05. The engine blew at 90K. My other daughter has 160K on her Toyota, still runs like new.
While I worked at Texas Instruments in the late 70's, the company began trying to instill the Japanese work ethic in all of it's employees. We went to motovational seminars, watched films, and were given literature to read.
All I got from it was that they were trying to get the most amount of work for the least amount of money. It didn't catch on here. And it wasn't long after, that the Japanese workers rebelled as well.
Dennis, Hyundai is a Korean car builder. Their earlier models were complete junk. They went back to the drawing board and put in place much higher quality standards but because their name was poor in the USA they had to offer the best warranty in the business - 10 years / 100 K miles. 5 years bumper to bumper. They either upped their quality or went out of business as their name was a liability due to poor quality during their USA launch.
I think we are starting to see the rebellion in Chinese workers already. Due to public pressure in the USA and European countries, the living/working standards of their workers is under a microscope so companies such as Apple, Nike, Adidas, etc. are demanding from their manufacturers in China better pay and working/living conditions for the workers. If nothing more then to avoid a public relations scandal that has already hit several of these companies and in some cases resulted in boycotts of their products back here and in Europe.
Once the Chinese starts upping the pay and working conditions of their employees I cannot help but think they will start losing a little of their competitive edge. Other countries are already starting to knock on China's door - Vietnam, India, Indonesia, etc.
Still many foreign corporations have huge investments in Chinese factories so I do not see anything changing very fast. What will have the biggest impact on Chinese competitiveness in the world will be their currency. if they ever let their currency go wild and quit manipulating it like they do then you will see a loss of some of their ability to produce and compete on price.
Many US corporations have a foot hold in China not because they can produce products at cheap
prices but also because they have the largest consumer market in the world. 1 billion people can make for some pretty hefty sales. :)
We have mentioned China, India, Taiwan, Vietnam, Japan, Mexico and South Korea but lets also not forget our Southern friends in South America. They are also starting to produce as well. There are three things that has kept the USA in the markets with their products and that is 1.) Our ability to produce at the highest productivity rates in the world 2.) One of the very best engineering staffs and minds the world has ever seen. 3.) The ability to produce on a large scale quality products using quality woods and metals. Metalurgy in this country is superior to other countries.
Chris
the new hyundai's sonata,s are built in Montgomery , Alabama. Kia builds cars in Georgia.
I have the same Consew you are looking at - it has been great! No issues - I purchased mine new..