Frequently customers will come in wagging an item to be reupholstered and a bag
of material that they bought off the market, example JoAnn's.
The thrust of bringing this up is they have bought junk or the wrong fabric for the objective. Example, more than one customer yesterday brought dining room chair requpholstery work with thin drapery fabric for the covering.
I have learned not to preach about the issue, instead just go ahead and perform the task of getting their items done. I suppose the positive side of this there is money left in the budget for me to get the shop rate.
Like said, I don't get into the issue about the fabric, they bought it and I install it. Interesting thing about these transactions is seldom do questions come up about quality of the fabric they bought. That wasn't the case just a few years ago, even if my shop sold them a quality fabric, they wanted assurance that it was quality.
My have things changed!
What primarily drives this, is everything all about the money?
These same consumers sometimes drop the information that they have season pro football seats, therefore will pick up the work the next day.
Go figure,
Doyle
I think we live in an age of transition, Doyle. There are those who care only about price and know "the price of everything and the value of nothing". Those are the people who regard reupholstery as a "pain" and expensive and think they'll save money if they provide the fabric themselves. They don't know up "up charges" and they know even less about fabric and the process of upholstery/fabrication. They don't want to know, they simply want to cross the task off the "to do list". I do the work, emphasizing that I am responsible for the quality of the work only, pointing out that the fabric is not really suited to the task for which it was purchased.
And then there are those who are basically familiar with upholstery work or are curious about it. They are often horrified by the price they're quoted, but they're reasonable, thoughtful, and consider the alternative of purchasing new. They ask questions and they realize that they are purchasing time. They also understand that asking questions of a skilled professional is part of price they will pay! And they are receptive to suggestions about the appropriateness of a fabric selection. These are the customers we've come to revere. They're the ones that tell their friends and spread the gospel about the worthiness of reupholstery.
Interestingly, I'm finding a lot more "young" people the latter category.
I have a relationship with an RV dealership that can only be described as "contentious".
I realize that they're trying to turn a profit on selling refurbished RV's. They don't mind if I "simplify" the sofas and cushions by eliminating gathered seams and inserts. They just want CHEAP. They never provide enough fabric, and I kid you not, the last bolt they sent had a Wal-Mart sticker on the end that said $1.47. For these guys, Joann's would represent a tremendous upgrade.
I've made it very clear that their work goes to the bottom of the pile. I'll get to it when I get to it. And some of the stuff I flatly refuse to take in.
There've been several times in the past that I thought we had parted ways. But they keep coming back.
When upholsterers come into my shop looking for work, I immediately send them to this RV place. But even out-of-work stitchers won't work cheap enough for these guys.
Heck, even the name of the place has the word "budget" in it. Really, would name your shop "Budget Upholstery"?
ON this subject.
When I started upholstery in 1985, an average new sofa was about $800 to $900 if I remember right. Using an online inflation calculator that would be about $1650 to $1900, or about that is.
How much is the average sofa from the same retail store today? About $700 is a good estimate. Again working back words on inflation. The cost in 1985 money would be about $300.
So the cost of a sofa has dropped about 20% or so but by over half to 2/3s counting for inflation. It's amazing.
Furniture is like toasters, you toss them when they brake in 3 months to 3 years.
But I do think you did the right thing. Their fabric their problem. I did not sell it, I don't guarantee it.
Quote
When I started upholstery in 1985, an average new sofa was about $800 to $900 if I remember right. Using an online inflation calculator that would be about $1650 to $1900, or about that is.
How much is the average sofa from the same retail store today? About $700 is a good estimate. Again working back words on inflation. The cost in 1985 money would be about $300.
That's exactly why I quit doing sofas and recliners many years ago!
Rich
Bobbin, you are right on about consumers groups today. There are those who "think" they conceptualize what is happening and they see what professional upholsterer's do as simple. If I have heard it once, it has been many, where they describe what I will be doing is merely "wrapping" and stapling. That descriptor "wrapping" for some reason is a turn off. I believe I have to fit, pattern, sew, and then install just about everyting I do. Don't we wrap presents! Even if you don't do them right the job looks tacky.
The other group seeking quality are an inspiration to work for. They can be pretty cerebral.
Bonehead, your numbers and perspective of the furniture popular price market is correct. Cheaper labor, materials, and simplification of construction has really kept the price down. One wonders how much longer the price of furniture will trend like this?
Sofa - Yes there are some out there who are just down right cheap and some of those just don't have the money.
Rich - Oh heck no, we can't compete with the popular price stuff today. All I do is repairs on them while they are close to new, after that they are history. Dining room chairs and similar items where upholstery doesn't make up most of the cost are a few items that are brought in.
Great perspectives and answers people. Ten years or so ago, If the customer didn't buy the fabric from me then it would not be done by me. The, when my suppliers started selling direct, I went in the direction as going now; just install the material brought to me and let someone else worry about the executive details. Actually, there is more money in it for me, no sales or pick up and delivery time, everything is reduced to the work time. Like Bonehead said, any problems with the materials won't come back to me.
This type of business just keeps coming in........
Sounds like our experiences are very similar.
Doyle
Quote from: DB on April 07, 2012, 06:09:38 am
My have things changed!
What primarily drives this, is everything all about the money?
These same consumers sometimes drop the information that they have season pro football seats, therefore will pick up the work the next day.
Go figure,
Doyle
I think it has more to do with peoples priorities. Used to be people took great pride in their homes. Inviting company over was a big deal. Taking the time and money to showcase their home. Didn't mater how rich they were, they would still try the best they could to keep an impressive house. This included no children roughhousing and no pets on the furniture. I have only a handful of customers with this attitude.
Most homeowners these days seem to spend less on the inside of their homes and are more concerned with the visual aspects of their lives. e.g. Nice car, fancy cloths ($100 purse) and they will spend a fortune on a big house then fill it with junk. Its all about the facade and how well it looks from the street. People don't have dinner parties (who has time?) but rather meet friends at a nice restaurant or offer a season pro football seat. Impressive.
I try to push people toward the fabric outlets. This makes the whole job more affordable and more likely I will get the job. What I can't stand is when they come in with $80 a yard fabric and want me to squeeze a ten yard job out of 8 yards, because they couldn't afford any more fabric. That wing chair looks really nice, to bad we had to use muslin on the OB and one side of the cushion. ???
Quote from: kodydog on April 07, 2012, 07:01:51 pm
People don't have dinner parties (who has time?) but rather meet friends at a nice restaurant
True. I remember one year back in the 80's, I did nearly 300 dining room seats in the weeks leading up to Thanksgiving. Last year, maybe 60.
Quote from: kodydog on April 07, 2012, 07:01:51 pm
I try to push people toward the fabric outlets. This makes the whole job more affordable and more likely I will get the job.
Not me. I still sell quite a bit of fabric. If they're not buying from me, they can find it on their own.
When they ask me about a particular fabric outlet, I'll usually say something coy, like "Yeah, that place isn't bad. Most of the flaws aren't too visable. You'll probably be happy with it". Then I tell them to get 2-3 extra yards just in case there's a "problem" with the fabric.
I like to
at least plant that little seed of doubt. ;D
Quote from: kodydog on April 07, 2012, 07:01:51 pm
Quote from: DB on April 07, 2012, 06:09:38 am
Doyle
I think it has more to do with peoples priorities. Used to be people took great pride in their homes. Inviting company over was a big deal. Taking the time and money to showcase their home. Didn't mater how rich they were, they would still try the best they could to keep an impressive house. This included no children roughhousing and no pets on the furniture. I have only a handful of customers with this attitude.
Most homeowners these days seem to spend less on the inside of their homes and are more concerned with the visual aspects of their lives. e.g. Nice car, fancy cloths ($100 purse) and they will spend a fortune on a big house then fill it with junk. Its all about the facade and how well it looks from the street. People don't have dinner parties (who has time?) but rather meet friends at a nice restaurant or offer a season pro football seat. Impressive.
I try to push people toward the fabric outlets. This makes the whole job more affordable and more likely I will get the job. What I can't stand is when they come in with $80 a yard fabric and want me to squeeze a ten yard job out of 8 yards, because they couldn't afford any more fabric. That wing chair looks really nice, to bad we had to use muslin on the OB and one side of the cushion. ???
I never actually thought about that one but it certainly fits today's mentality of putting your money where it will gain the most attention from those around you. It's sad, but this is where we are today I think. Good observation Kodydog!
Rich
Rich
Bright Idea! This facade thing.................if we change our company name to studio and reference it that way instead of a shop, everything will go upscale!
;)
I agree with the presented analysis of this image thing. After driving two new cars, buying season tickets to sports activities, and eating out, there is no money left! There sure is a lot of that going on, restaurant parking lots are pretty full these days.
All that and the price of gasoline, it is a wonder they can afford fabrics at Joann's even if it isn't enough to do the job.
I can see the future already, but wonder how in the heck my customers will be able to bring me a chair on a bicycle.
What to do, what to do? I know, we need a new title, color matchers have become designers. What is a good name for us staple pullers/pushers? Plus, we need to rid ourselves of this "wrapping" imagine! Would you pay a guy $10 an hour to just wrap a chair? ;)
Doyle
Quote from: DB on April 08, 2012, 06:18:16 am
Would you pay a guy $10 an hour to just wrap a chair? ;)
Doyle
Were now dealing with a designer who has concocted an idea with her client to redesign an ottoman. She says it'll be fun, it'll be a challenge. People have no idea how technical our jobs are and how many skills are involved. They think, if you don't want to do it I'll just do it myself. They want to add casters to the ottoman. I told her first I need to drill a hole and insert a sleeve for the caster to fit in. She said, no just stick the caster stud into the hole.
They want to do a process called Trapunto to the skirts. I have absolute no desire to learn this skill, no mater how much fun or challenging it will be and I told her so. Now the customer wants to do it. If I'll just cut the skirts to the right size, she'll apply the Trapunto and give them back to sew and fasten to the ottoman. I don't know what size to cut the skirts till I install the casters and I cant install the casters because she thinks I don't need the sleeves. And I just know the whole project, when finished, is going to be one big mess.
I already have 3 hours in the project and haven't even made my first cut. So the ottoman sits in a corner of my shop untouched. Soon I will bring it back to her and explain it is above my skill level.
Quote from: kodydog on April 08, 2012, 06:54:23 am
I told her first I need to drill a hole and insert a sleeve for the caster to fit in. She said, no just stick the caster stud into the hole.
That sounds like a lady that I had to deal with recently. She wanted me to unscrew her dining room seats and take them with me. I didn't bring any tools, so she came up with some little piece o' crap cordless screwdriver. She thought that you could just hold the screwdriver up to the screw and press the button. She didn't understand that you still have to provide the "elbow grease".
Kodydog,
I mistakenly mentioned Bonehead as the one I quoted but it was actually you-so I made the mod. Not that Bonehead doesn't also come up with good observations, but I wanted to give the credit to the right person.
Rich
That's cool Rich. For a minute I thought you were nonchalantly calling me a bonehead. Wouldn't be the first time. :D
Lol!
Rich
If someone told me I was just "wrapping and stapling" I would show them the door, wouldn't be the first time.
when i was a kid i wasnt allowed to have feet on he vcouch dont sit on the arm as many do.
theing wee to bew taken care of im still that way i hate it when i see someone on the road where there passenger has there shoe on the dash.
i did have a cheap used rv guy bring me a few yards of spradling seat vinyl to make rv slide out awnings totaly wrone but hey it was his money.
Im just glad my marine customer never bring me vinyl or sunbrella to do somthing .
Had a lady bring me material (leather) she had acquired from an old couch she riped apart at the seams. They were two foot square pieces and she wanted me to upholster two bucket seats and a bench seat for a 1971 Falcon. The leather was brown and she tried to dye it black. I refused to do it and insisted I use my material. She agreed to it and of course I made sure she had beautiful seats for her car. She has sent me 3 more customers since then. I tell them my way or the highway and it has worked good so far.
Catfish you da man. And welcome to the board.
Sometimes you just have to say no. We just got the go ahead on an ottoman we've been screwing around with for the last two months. She wanted some kind of applique on the skirts and when we picked it up we told her we couldn't do it . She called us later and again we told her we couldn't do it. She called us last week and she said just do it any way you can.
Perseverance always pays. Even if you don't get the job.
Last week inhad this guy he wanted a new upholstery skin for his rear Sunpad motor cover you know probly. 75" by 40" he removed the vinyl off the wood and foam and wanted me to make it the same size with stripes. So I did giving him a little extra length in the 4o" side.
As I knew would happen he called to say he didn't have the new Vinyl on nd it was real tight I told his ya it will be I'd heat the skin. Score streaching it on. Maybe he could lay it out in the sun first But if you want a nice tight snug city with no wrinkles then it's tight. He wanted to save money now he see why the cost would have been more he actually had the hard job. Today I got a call for a new t top canvas the guy would remove the old and install the new I just had to make it. I gueese my price was still to high for him
I'd still have to go pattern before sewing
A market overview and a good one at that is what is being presented here.
Perhaps in a summary form, there are a couple glaring points that draws attention/questions. The first one is, what makes the consumer think that providing their own fabric is a major cost savings to a project?
For example, the typical call to my business is "I have my own material and how much will you charge to make this or make that?", which is usually cushions. Then, after hearing the labor rate, they quickly push the escape button, discussion ends.
My other question is, it seems they have conceptualized the labor process and in their mind, nothing to it.......................they don't grasp that the task isn't easy.
All that said, it leaves me with the question about why does our culture, a big part anyway, really think that trades which require skills are easily executed?
That one leaves me without a good clue or understanding of how this mind set has developed?
Anyone into marketing have a good reading on this?
Traditional drapes, those with pinched pleats, lined and more often included with sheers has gravitated to attaching a rod on the wall and "just" start wrapping is all it takes. It would take a moroon to not see and understand the difference.
Or are consumers in denial that there are professional ways of doing things and this consumer attitude stems from the simple fact that they can't afford to have anything done by professionals?
This "attitude" thing isn't only associated with home furnishings, in business it is identified with our auto work, and it is very obvious in our marine work also.
So it is a prevalent thing.
Sorry, but thanks for reading.
:)
Doyle
Doyle, your "pinch pleat" analogy is a prime example of why customers have such low cost expectations.
Pinch pleat drapes can be extremely time consuming and tedious. So the sewer would have to charge accordingly. The sewer quotes the customer a "custom" price for pinch pleat drapes.
The customer is thinking "I can buy them for less than half that amount at BB&B".
Mass-produce factories have devalued the rates for custom work. The customer now has absolutely no concept of the degree of difficulty.
The ONLY customers who do understand are the ones who've already tried to do it themselves.
Adding on to what Sofa said.
Not all trades are under paid or devalued. Look at auto mechanics, electricians and plumbers. The difference is the consumer cannot go to Ikea Auto Repair and compare prices. In fact I've found if you compare most mechanics prices they are all about the same. Unlike upholsterers, and this is part of the problem.
Most consumers have no idea what the difference is between a $800 sofa and a $2000 one. They just know the $800 one looks good and feels good in the showroom. They also have no idea the difference between buying at Ikea or having a skilled craftsman reupholster and restore their old sofa.
There is a reason people are not getting into this field for employment. Its hard work, requires a ton of skills and takes years to get to the point of making a decent living.
Having said that, I have many customers who do appreciate my skills, and those I treat like gold.