I have one quick question before I spill my delema...what does it mean on this site where they show who you are when you sign in..yet every once in a while it'll have someone hidden ?? how does that work ?...secret agents ?? heh heh ,,,kidding ......How and why do they hide ?
My pet peave.,
Customer brings own fabric ..., mark up yes......I do the job as she comes in constantly asking mega questions how I am doing it... is it going to be this way? can we do it that way..I want it as firm as possible and so on. I convinced her not to go with firm foam ( back problem ) I suggest she go with a medium density ( she really doubted me on this one)
It was a pillow bag style sofa that are so popular with seats and backs attached . I was to take it and redesign it to a loose cushioned sofa ....I did and it was beautiful.
I have been doing upholstery over 25 yrs . I've only had my own shop in the last few. Much to learn.
I picked up on her nature after getting to know her and she was absolutely....,,.I can't swear'' but she was not easy to deal with..maybe smooth is the word for her absolute sophisticated way.
Did the sofa / she loved it...At first.
Princess and the pea I have named her. The med density foam was too firm..thank goodness I didn't order the firmness she wanted.
What was the kicker was is the cushions were shifting but she did not come to me about it for a fix. I always address concerns..
I called her to ask if she was happy with her set and she admitted to what she had done ...she had another upholsterer inspect my job thus saying my seams were not right which was why her cushions were shifting.
I nicely told her all she had to do was tell me what the problem was and I would deal with it no charge .,but she jumped to conclusions. its little bit longer story ...
I was hurt and felt insulted ...should I be ?? I kept my composier though.
in the end I told her the pattern was up and down ., the nap however was sideways which explains the cushions going awry . This fabric was like carpet to work with,
The end all of this ..........she complained to the other upholsterer that they didn't fix the problem so she was reimbursed. It was 900 dollars to re-do 6 cushions ??? Go figure .. I wouldn't ding anyone that much for altering.
It wasn't the mainstream problem anyway
the customer then decided to wash the cushions and they shrunk..she admitted to me at least 4 '' she couldn't get more fabric therefore she went out and bought a leather sofa from the Brick ..ditched the one I did for her...after all that work .,payng my labour being watched with every step I did and she had paid 85.00 a yard for her fabric......14 yds .... nice to have money to waste I suppose
I don't know is it me ?? or is she obsessive conpulsive ? I was told after all this a brick layer rebricked a large wall in front of her house ..she made him tear it down and re-do it...Now the next kicker is my husband and I were passing by and the truck from the Brick furniture store was there and they were taking the new leather set back out she had bought and putting it in the truck.
She wants more work done by me ( a couple of chairs ..?????)..I don't want to do it .
I am needing advice . I've only been on my own for 4 years I have so much to learn .How do you say you don't want to do it ??
Well if shes got money to burn giving s hight prices probly wont do it. Idjust say im way to busy now to do it.
I had a customer like that not long ago i wanted to fix skmtjhing for her she just did t want it so i just shut up and said ok.
Welcome to the business world lc,
She is a tuff one. They will come once in a great while. You can do her work, as it sounds like you sold the sofa well explaining the firmness of the foam. She will be like this with every project she has done. If you can handle the maintenance the continue to work with her. No discounts ever. You might mention that you have stopped working with COMs as they never work out for you. Sell he fabric, mark your price up to make up for the maintenance end of it and continue on.
Do your best and you will be fine in the end.
Or you can bit the bullet and just say I no longer can take any work on.
Yes I know at times you have to set your feelings aside but wow! when you've done this kind of work for so long its amazing how they can punch you in the gut and bring you down with self doubt ..silly I know for as many jobs we pull in but that one customer can put a dagger in your questioning of ability. We think we are gods of upholstery umm I think we are !!...a talant that is fading away., just like the trades for example ., wood carving ...the wood that is carved in the pieces we see that we upholster no one understands the work that went into it...hours upon hours.., I am always in awe.
our children are going into different directions ..the trades are fading. My son seams to like it I hope it sticks
We have so much pride in our work and people are buying all the cheap stuff now ..thank goodness for the ones that actually realize they have good furnture. It`s up to us to encourage recycling but people like her really make it hard ,. I know I`ll get over it but its amazing how one customer can keep you up at night .
Paul I apologize but what does coms. mean ? I am not good at short form lingo..I am just getting into text ha ha.... Us oldies have some caching up to do with the times
I know that a dissatisfied customer can be a punch in the gut. But this one payed 900 bucks to have only a portion of your work redone, and then demanded a refund for the redo. Now she's coming back to you. I think I'd just consider this one to be an "odd nut", and not let her get under my skin.
Like Paul says, charge accordingly.
I think this woman is a wack a doodle. I would starve before I took another one of her jobs.
I just got in a job from an RV tech who owns his own company. He brought me a new awning he ordered ( wrong size ) and asked me to rip out a seam and cut off a few inches and re-stitch it back up. I told him $ 75 for the job. I probablty wasted an hour just wrestling with the fabric. I just finished it tonight and when he comes tomorrow to pick it up I will let him know I no longer will do that type of work. I am setting a new policy...........Unless I make it with my own fabric I wont touch it. The awning he brought in was the cheapest plastic/vinyl sh*t I have ever seen. It was pure hell working with it and I prayed through the whole job it wouldn't snag on something and rip. If anything sharp would have touched it, it would cut right through it. What nasty cheap Chinese crap that stuff was.
I am getting to the point in my life where I am to old and too busy to screw with crap jobs like this or demanding customers. Maybe I am spoiled working with top notch materials and customers who treat me with respect and are understanding and easy to work with.
I do not need the headaches at this point in my life. :)
Chris
Quote from: lc on February 24, 2012, 08:02:23 pm
Paul I apologize but what does coms. mean ? I am not good at short form lingo..I am just getting into text ha ha.... Us oldies have some caching up to do with the times
COM = Customers Own Material
Chris, I'm with you. I've a customer with a patio umbrella that seems to always have fabric problems. The problem, it is a price point umbrella and the manufacturer used cheapo nylon for the covering fabric. Two years ago he brought it to me for a new cover. I priced the material and labor for a good one out of Weathermax. Even material costs were way out of his budget, so he finally found one similar to his for about $89 and brought it to me to modify to fit his umbrella frame. A year later, he's back asking me to reinforce it because it was falling apart. My reinforing bill was like $40 even though I spent 4 hours on it and I knew he was cheap. Who needs it? It's better to take the day off!
I vote cut her loose. It won't get any better, you'll just get used to it. That's a bad thing.
I would have to let her go because I don't think she will be happy with anything.
IC, sounds like you did all you could to make the customer happy. Often I get jobs asking to change the foam out but I always explain were fixing a flaw in the design and experimenting with different foam densities. I'll change out the foam as often as they like at their expense. I bring out three samples; soft, medium and firm and let them choose.
This week I did 4 chairs for a designer. I got lost on the way to the appointment and when I got there she started cussing me out and told me how stupid men were. She questioned whether I would be able to do the job. I had to remind her that she was not obligated and if she wanted me to leave I would. Shes a real fireball and extremely fussy. Shes using a black and gold silk stripe. The job was very stressful every step of the way but they came out perfect and now I can move on to the next project. I deliver them Friday.
Over time you learn to not let those people bother you or you learn to spot them and don't work for them. Price them right out of the job
The lady you describe is defiantly obsessive. And these people seem to seek out upholsterers thinking we can fix all their problems. You can spend hours explaining how your going to fix their sofa and still not cover it all. Like the nap running the wrong way on a pattern. There have been 2 or 3 times over the years I've had to tell a customer, I don't think I can satisfy you. And just moved on.
I told this story over a year ago about a customer who came into my shop.
She told me right up front that she was a "Perfectionist", and would be very hard to please. She wanted to know if I would be willing to take her on as a client. She was opening an upscale store in the "design district" of Dallas.
I pointed to a sofa in my shop, and asked her to critique it.
She came up with a whole laundry list of "imperfections".
Then I explained to her that the sofa she had just picked apart came from a high-end furniture store, and was only in my shop for new foam cores. This particular sofa was as close to perfect as you will ever see.
We both agreed that we shouldn't do business together. She never opened that upscale store, her credit wasn't as perfect as SHE was.
There's a fine line between "Perfectionist", and "Obsessive compulsive".
It's been my observation that most people who call themselves perfectionists actually demand perfection in everyone AROUND them, but not necessarily IN them.
Quote from: Mojo on February 24, 2012, 08:59:59 pm
I think this woman is a wack a doodle. I would starve before I took another one of her jobs.
Chris
That appears to be the gist of it!
Word of mouth has been my best advertising which gives me good indication I am putting good work out...
What I find tricky though, is how do you pick up on these people? She was good at putting on the airs and had that phony smile
When she addressed me on the cushions she used the horrible phrase ''I don't want to insult you but "'
We all know they do want to insult you with that crazy line.
A person like that can give you self doubts ., I guess if anything it isn't all bad . It just makes you watch your work habits more. ha ha
What tips me off is if their house is always immaculate. Always in perfect order. Everything scrubbed and polished, no magazines on the coffee table, even the carpet is vacuumed with all the nap going the the same direction.
Also if they say they were disappointed with the last upholstery job but can't point out why. Might want to stay clear.
One lady (a designer) was complaining about the terrible job her paper hanger did. Looked fine to me. She said when she got home and saw what a sh**ty job he did she said, Harry how could you f**k this up. I called her later and said thanks but no thanks.
I had one OCD customer that brought a chair in to my shop a few years ago. After choosing a fabric and confirming her order, she started to walk out the door.
She turned around, and walked back over to her chair, bent over it, and bit off a loose thread with her teeth. She said that she knew it would be coming off when I stripped it down anyway, but she wouldn't be able to sleep at night thinking about that loose thread.
I waited a couple of weeks, then called her and made up an excuse as to why I wouldn't be able to do her chair.
I'm usually pretty good at spotting a problem customer. When I do, I make up any excuse necessary.
I don't want them to go away mad, I just want them to go away.
Quote from: lc on February 25, 2012, 10:35:21 am
she used the horrible phrase ''I don't want to insult you but "'
We all know they do want to insult you with that crazy line.
my ocd woman used the same line we let each other go.
I have a customer who has CDO. That's OCD but the letters are in the correct order.
If there weren't crazy people in this world I would stand out even more.
There are some people who complain because that is what they do. There is no rhyme or reason, or logic, to it. It takes some effort but if I can accept that they are a complainer and that's just what they do, i.e., it's not about me or my work, it helps me to not take it personally.
I would not want my life to come to a screaching halt so I could bite off a thread that I knew was going to be pulled off when the old fabric was removed. That's sad!
gene
Our job is to respect every personality out there ., we learn how to smooth it out to get our business any way we can, even when we don't agree with their thinking .
I think that people who act like they are above us are plain and simply insecure . I think most of us can agree.
We get to suffer the price at times with dealing with them.
I am usually good at what I call defusing someone who may be skeptical ...she was an exception
The point that stood out with me -- because I've run into this as well -- while you have doubts about your abilities because of her ditching the sofa/having another shop work on it/etc..... she has MORE WORK for you.
She will never be happy with anything, but doesn't mind trying to spend money going for perfection. Car and boat people are the same way. They have in their head how perfect something should be. It is either impossible, or not feasible from a budget standpoint, yet you give it your all. They will leave you feeling you did a bad job, when in reality they are bragging you up to their friends.
Disliking the outcome isn't a reflection on your work, it's more her inability to accept that something is actually done to a point of satisfaction. But you obviously came closer than anyone else she's used if she's coming back. I like these customers as repeats, because the following jobs I can be "in their face," which is what she probably wants. Get cocky with the next project. As she's talking about firmness, tell her flat out "no, you'll hate that foam. We're using this foam." When she shows you samples tell her "Oh my heavens!! Are you serious? You know that you're going to like XXXX better" and show her what you will be using." Wasting the money is a gamem to her, and she's found a suitable opponent.
You've passed the test with that first project, whether she kept it, burned it or donated it to charity. And if she has more work for you, then that means her pocketbook is open and she wants to hand the cash to you. TAKE IT!!!!
Quote from: kodydog on February 25, 2012, 11:49:42 am
What tips me off , no magazines on the coffee table,
I gueese I'm good to go
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi782.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy102%2FMike8560%2F249f19b4.jpg&hash=f02dbb25b199935b67c56b364cb35e5b)
Money to burn is an understatement ...I hope they give to charities as well..we have to work our butts off to get a few dollars unlike a dentist per say..he takes out a tooth that took 5 seconds for a couple hundred dollars.
Wish we had it that easy .
I think when we get a difficult customer they are on the defensive in some cases due to being ripped off or something ...when I get a customer like this I give my big smile and do the yes maam no maam to a certain degree., then once the job is finished they are a totally different person and you win their trust for other work
I think much of the problem also lies with some businesses that 'do' rip people off or say they'll go and see the customer yet never show.
As for the perfect houses where everything is in its place ..they must have a maid ! They would get their fingernails broken if they were doing the work .ha ha
Kidding of course.... I live in a modest bungalow magazines strewed everywhere but thats because I don't feel I need to have a show house I am too laid back for that ..I have to live here .,not my company that these people feel the need to impress with their expensive homes and gizmoes.
As for her getting me to do her other two chairs I will do them and they will be sooooo perfect !! she will not get to me anymore I am busy enough without her but I sure wouldn't complain if she went elswhere.
I did want to bring up one other point. Time is Money. I am to the point right now where I have to watch every single job I take. I am booked solid till the end of April now and for me to take on a fussy customer who will consume my time with phone calls or visits will in the end cost me time which will cost me money.
I simply do not have time to screw around with goofy customers. That is time I could be sewing and if I can kick more orders out the door faster I can squeeze in another order or two. If I take on a customer who eats up my time then I am going to loose.
I was so pissed at myself when I took that re-sew job on. I should have known better and sometimes I just do not know how to say no. I was screwing around burning up time while looking at my order board that is loaded with$ 800 dollar high margin jobs and here I am busting my butt over a stupid awning re-sew that netted me $ 75.
At the moment I can be very picky as I have more work then I need. I told one of my dealers to send all the re-sews and used canvas work to someone else as I do not have the time. Every bit of time I can save means I can move more orders in the door as well as allow myself some time off. This 6 and 7 days a week in the shop is getting very old.
So my advice is when you get a PITA customer that eats up valuable shop time you need to consider working with them again. This is why I LOVE my customers...........I deal with almost all of them through e-mail's...........lol
Chris
I've been in business only a few years and at this time I am not as busy as I would like., it goes in spurts so I guess I still have some grovelling to do.
I worked for twenty years with a very reputable business and they moved shop to the small town I live in not long after I started up.
I worked in the back when I worked for them so no-one would know who I was when I started my business therefore I have to get myself out there and now compete with a business that already has a reputation.
I felt sort of stepped on when they moved but I respect them ., they just happened across a good deal in the area but it took a whomp out of me....I get busy but not as much as I would like.
Quote from: lc on February 26, 2012, 06:33:36 am
As for her getting me to do her other two chairs I will do them and they will be sooooo perfect !! she will not get to me anymore I am busy enough without her but I sure wouldn't complain if she went elswhere.
That's a good attitude lc. I know what you mean by winning there trust. Once someone gets burned they are leery to try another upholsterer. You can see it in there eyes when you pick the piece up.
One good thing about working for difficult people is if you can please them they will tell all their friends.
We did a lot of work for a man in town who owns a restaurant. He was a little compulsive but not obsessive. We have got a lot of word of mouth business from him and every body says, if you can please him you must be good.
I've worked in several shops over the years and they seam to be split on two different business models. Some shops want to get it in and out fast as possible, even if it compromises quality. these shops are easy to work for because they never send anything back to be tweaked. But it makes it difficult if you are a quality conscious upholsterer.
The other type shop wants quality over everything else. Not to say you can poke around and take your time, you still have to make the owner money. But they will send it back if they see something wrong. And even though its more difficult, that's the type shop I'd rather work for.
I totally agree .
The shop I worked for had nothing but utmost pride in what went out the door . Furniture stripped to the bare frame . Totally reinforced.,proper paddings the whole nine yards.
The work was inspected thoroughly before going out the door .We upholsterers would show the other something they overlooked without taking offense . I don't believe in shortcuts., I think they come back to haunt you.
I am proud to have learned the trade with the proper training . Some shops its all about the money get it in get it out ., I take my time and do it right.
Quote from: lc on February 26, 2012, 07:03:40 am
I worked in the back when I worked for them so no-one would know who I was when I started my business therefore I have to get myself out there and now compete with a business that already has a reputation.
I felt sort of stepped on when they moved but I respect them ., they just happened across a good deal in the area but it took a whomp out of me....I get busy but not as much as I would like.
Sometimes when one door closes another opens. Trust me lc there is nothing like working for yourself. You just need to get your business built up. And the people on the forum will help you do that.
Quote from: Mojo on February 26, 2012, 06:43:25 am
This 6 and 7 days a week in the shop is getting very old.
So my advice is when you get a PITA customer that eats up valuable shop time you need to consider working with them again. This is why I LOVE my customers...........I deal with almost all of them through e-mail's...........lol
Chris
]
Chris i used to work 7 days a week for many years in NH in seasone so i feel for you. sounds like you yeally need to figure out how to slow down ant take it easy. like this wekend ive been working in my gardens. and as for pickey custmer ive had 2 in the last few years one when i fished wouls fond some other little things to pix on then when i fixed that had to leave later to find somthin else. i walked off that one for a few $ and last one a lady who picked on the tighness of gromets and when redone wanted to install them herself ::)
I read this book last year, and somewhere in it, probably the chapter on "The perfect is the enemy of the good," the author talked about a major cause of depression is people who expect perfection, but can't realize they live in an imperfect world.
http://www.amazon.com/Too-Soon-Old-Late-Smart/dp/1569243735/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330272659&sr=1-1
A good article on the subject:
http://www.woodshopnews.com/columns-blogs/finishing/498313-practice-doesnt-need-to-make-perfect
Best line out of there is : Unless the customer has unlimited funds to spend on the repair, or the repair technician is willing to work to satisfy his own perfectionist ambitions on his own time, and at his own cost, there will be limitations to the resources available for a given repair. There will be constraints relative to the tools the technician has at his disposal, his skills, the environment in which he works, and the time available for the repair.
You have to believe in yourself, LC. Simple as that (and as complicated!).
Any time a customer says they "don't want to insult you" or tells you they've gone to another upholsterer to "double check" your work your defense should be raised! I think most of us have had to deal with someone like that at one time or another. And if you're new to the game you tend to be more "cowed" by someone of that ilk than you are if you've already had to field something like that.
My baptism of fire came with a neighbor who wanted some alterations to clothing. She came over and I marked the alterations (2 pr. of slacks and a skirt, all with elastic waistlines, all hems and pretty simple). She told me she'd never "liked" the skirt and hoped I could improve its "look" (I was on "alert"). I marked them the way I always do, from the floor (so when the garments are on the body the hemline will be parallel to the floor and compensate for vagaries of the wearer's skeleton). And I explained why I was marking them the way I did. I delivered them and a week later received a call that they were, "wrong". Alarm bells! (been at this for 30+ yrs. and knew the liklihood of error was minimal, though not impossible). She wanted me to come to her home to "show me" the error, it was plain to see on the countertop. I told her she needed to come to my shop and try on the garments for me. She couldn't do that because she was leaving for a trip... OK, contact me when you get home.
3 mos. later she called me. She came to my shop, tried on the garments for me and lo and behold! the hems were just fine. She'd studied them on ther countertop and doing so made my work look uneven and shoddy. Why? because her 70 yr. old body was no longer as symmetrical as it may've been when she was 20! She didn't understand that the hemlines would not look "even" ON A FLAT SURFACE although they would be fine on the body in question. She insisted I rip out the entire hem on the skirt (two side vents) and I refused. She had a srreaming tantrum and refused my offer of her money back. -uck her! She clearly had a hidden agenda.
I'll do whatever is within reason to make a customer happy. But I will not "stepanfetchit" just because customer thinks I ought to.
Quote from: bobbin on February 26, 2012, 08:52:54 am
Why? because her 70 yr. old body was no longer as symmetrical as it may've been when she was 20!
One of the most common complaints I hear from the senior crowd is "Something is wrong with this sofa. It sinks so low that I can't get out of it like I used to."
It's hard to tactfully make them understand that it isn't necessarily the SOFA that doesn't work the way it once did.
Back to the term "Obsessive compulsive", it seems that in this age of political correstness, we must put a less offensive spin on everything. Back in the day, we just called 'em A--HOLES. ;D
Just like kids that we diagnose with A.D.D. Today, we pump them full of pills. 20 years ago we called them "hyper-active" and focused on ways to channel their energy.
When I was a kid, they just called them "BRATS" and whipped their butt.
I am glad I can get the advice of others ., this site has been a big help for me !
I am constantly scrolling over older conversations and have learned so much yet having your own business I sometimes feel a bit overwhelmed with the ins and outs of the business world jargon...
I admit though its the having control and and I love that ! It makes you feel somewhat free., I worked where tempers would fly and it was hard tip toeing around the family quarrels...I do not miss that at all !
Mistakes .,yes I know there will always be some and I have to learn to say no more often ..I admit I have been getting a bit tougher since this one lady . She made me feel so degraded it really has my gaurd up with customers...I felt extremely insulted .
On the other hand after that I was wary until I delivered peices to customers since that happened and the only thing that smartened me up was the fact that 99 % of my customers are happy ..I really had to get that in my head and not let that one lady knock me down.
Elsie:
I was right where you were a few short years ago. I had a confidence level that sucked and was fragile. I felt everything I turned out was bad. I beat myself up constantly over my work and if a customer made a single comment about my work it crushed me.
I finally got my confidence level boosted here on this forum. When you have masters telling you your work is good then it matters and can boost your confidence level. This entire group has made the difference in me and my work and without them I probably would have sold out and quit.
Since then I have seen other canvas peoples work and have realized that my work is top notch. It is not because I am a skilled stitcher but rather that I take my time and focus entirely on quality. I accept nothing less but perfection from my work. It has made a difference which is why I am so extremely busy. RV'ers know they can come to me and buy the best materials and get the best work and that I wont cut corners to save a little thread or fabric. They also know if I screw up that I will back my work 110 %.
My entire problem was I didn't believe in myself and thankfully this group helped me reach the point where I now do believe I can do this work well. I still think a monkey could be trained to do the work I do - sewing awnings and slide toppers and solar screens - ;D, but I still take great pride in what I do. :) I admire the heck out of people like Mike and Mike802, June, Dennis, Gene, Kody, Bobbin, Russ and many others on here who are true masters and experts in their individual niches of upholstery.
Chin up and believe in yourself and do not let some picky ass'ed customer with mental issues rip up your self esteem and confidence.
Chris
Quote from: byhammerandhand on February 26, 2012, 08:15:17 am
A good article on the subject:
http://www.woodshopnews.com/columns-blogs/finishing/498313-practice-doesnt-need-to-make-perfect
Good article hammer. I especially liked this quote,
When it's good enough, quit. This doesn't excuse shoddy work. "Good enough" means "meets the quality standards for this repair" or "conforms to specifications" for that repair.
and this
I don't know of any experienced repairman who has not, at one time or another, started with a small repair, made it look pretty good, and then attempted to make it "perfect," only to ruin what he'd done and make a bigger mess than he started with.
I do a lot of repair for local furniture stores and rental centers.
When a new manager takes over, I have to "break them in".
At first, they expect the whole piece to be better than new.
I have to make them understand that I can only do repairs "within reason".
If I have to go out into the woods, cut a tree down, and start from scratch, it's going to cost more than the piece is worth (WAY more).
I give them the option of fixing EVERYTHING, or just fixing what's broke. When they weigh the cost difference, they opt for "just fix what's broke".
Then we get along fine....until a few months later...when a new manager takes over again.
One manager at a furniture rental center (I won't say which one, but it starts with 2 A's) asked me "Don't you completely re-dowel all the joints?"
I replied "The term "RE-dowel" implies that it was dowelled to begin with".
If I have to chase down each and every squeaky joint, it's gonna cost more than the POS is worth.
Thank you Chris
This now inpires me to stick with this gang to get through the hurdles...it's not like we can go the the competition near by and ask for advice they aren't going to tell you their tricks about how to run a business....I guess thats why it seems at times we're alone with the struggling ., this site is a great idea .
As for the furniture stores oh my !! Thats a touchy subject ! It's difficult enough to open that furniture up only to go gasp !!
The crap they are making now is shameful.
I repaired a set not long ago and the front edge board was made of pine which had broken where there was a big knot. Very few good furniture makers left as far as I can see.
Quote from: lc on February 26, 2012, 05:55:06 pm
I repaired a set not long ago and the front edge board was made of pine which had broken where there was a big knot.
At least it was pine! It could've been wafer board.
It was the second time on a front edge board that I came across a knot from a few years ago same company that made them and yes indeed lots of wafer board !