So Im getting ready for the next dodger and was looking at the job and came up with this idea and thought it would be worth kicking around. This sailboat like many others didnt make provisions for a dodger like a combing, doghouse for sliding hatch. My idea is to build a 3rd bow tg run low over the cabintop just above the sliding hatch, handholds, sail lines etc. then cut this stuff into a tail that would be coming off the bow pocket for the bottom bow. The area where the clear vinyl goes is now simply a bow to bow pattern with even support all the way around. Opening windows would all be smiley zips. Could see some fine results not worrying about uneven tension from intermittent attachment along the bottom edge. snap attachment along bottom would be inconsequential due to it only supporting a couple of inches. Pocket for extra bow would have to be small to fit all in below clear.
That should work. Kinda like snapping to a traveler but not. How will you mount the bar?
if the boaw would be easy to make for the bottom to follow the boat. i use a track kedar but i see how this would be a even pull
mounting would be like regular bow with a jaw slide and eye end. to the deck would only need 2 proper attachment points where the straps or hard kicks would be. Bending the bar to fit the required contour hopefully wouldnt be to bad with bendarc and crownarc, can see a rounded bow to follow natural lines of the boat. This particular boat has an angle moulded into the companionway hatch that would naturally be followed to fit the boat.
Would that actually be easier than mounting trailer molding (Keder track) to the deck as Mike suggests? I'd think the molding would give a more watertight fit forward. Either way should work but IMHO the track would be easier. How will you seal the bow to the deck? Or will that just stay open? I'd think there's bound to be small gaps here and there.
June
So it's essentially a three bar dodger with the forward bar an inch-ish off the deck? How does the front bar get fastened to the deck? Then you need to cut your pocket around the tiny bar...I agree with the others, kedar is the simpler streamlined solution.
I've also just turnbuckled to a flat deck with no problems. If you're worried about pulls between fasteners, add more into the hem like June does and put the closer together.
Keder is an acceptable way to do it, Have it in my arsenal. Customer was inquiring about cutting starboard fastener ledge like he sees on one of his friends dodgers. This boat has a sliding hatch to deal with too. Im betting If I made the "tail" piece out of multiple layers and a little extra large it could be mostly fastened just at the ends and where it goes through handrails. Also does away with the evil screw holes in the coring of the boat which no marine canvas company treats properly. It would be impractical for a canvas guy to dig out the coring and fiberglass over the area then match the finishes etc.... This bow takes the weight of the weather and can be held in place with a hard stainless kicker going back to the next frame inside so each bow can be set independently. Doing away with fasteners into the deck is huge Being keder track or commonsense studs, they all need screws. Ive come across boats that have been done many thousands of dollars damage by leaky canvas fasteners across the deck. Ya walk across them and the fiberglass gives underneath your step while water oozes from the fastener holes from the saturated mushy coring underneath. The fasteners handle a live moving load when in weather, its hard to keep them sealed a little dab of 5200 just isnt enough.
Im also thinking here that maybe the clear window could be put in simply as a panel for a bimini sewing the smileys in first. Might have to go home and build one of these for the project sailboat that I have going. A prototype would tell me a bunch.
Here's one I made a couple of years ago on a 20 ft. catboat that i was involved in building.The front window snaps down to a piece of tubing that I crowned to approx the same shape as the hatch.It is attached to struts that hold the forward bow up with eye ends and jaw slides.I will try to get a picture of the frame set up for a better idea.Thre is a pic on my website under Covers.Lower left picture of dodger.
www.gscmarine.com
Geoff
I got the idea from looking at a similiar bar going across a sliding hatch. It required welding and putting those darned fasteners into a cored area of the deck. Im enthusiastic about this as ive always felt kind of criminally negligant when im drilling pilots for fasteners and see core material coming up in the shavings.
Quote from: forsailbyowner on February 11, 2012, 04:14:48 am
I got the idea from looking at a similiar bar going across a sliding hatch. It required welding and putting those darned fasteners into a cored area of the deck. Im enthusiastic about this as ive always felt kind of criminally negligant when im drilling pilots for fasteners and see core material coming up in the shavings.
IMO if the boat can't handle a few holes drilled in it or a guy walking on the deck the owner has much more serious problems on his hands. By making the dodger 'free floating' you're putting an incredible amount of stress on the few holes you will drill to mount the deck mounts. 4 holes for the main bars 4 more for the tension bars are now carrying the entire stress of the dodger that normally is spread across the 60 (80, 1000 or whatever) holes that would fasten the dodger down. Yes you now have exponentially more holes that are potential water entry points, but those holes are much less stressed so the caulk of your choice has a better chance of working.
I tell customers worried about it that a dodger needs fastening, if you don't want holes you don't want a dodger. In my mind awning rail would still be the way to go, the channel under the track holds the caulk and protects it from UV. I've had to remove track with a hammer after taking out the screws.
Again this is only my opinion, custom canvas is the only trade I can think of where you can do a job three different ways and they can all be wrong.
Comming from a sailing person, as we live aboard our FIRST 42 Beneteau..
You want to give the customer what he wants, and if the dodger is just for a Sun Shade, there isnt much reason to attach it to the deck but if the boats dodger is used as a Spray Hood, you want it tight to the top of the boat and all zipper ends hidden up under the flap ..
as I sun shade, it just has to look good but as a Spray Hood where the boat might take a wave over the deck, will it keep ALL the water off the people huddled in behind it in storm conditions..
Your idea is a good one but will it do its job, and look well on the boat..
been done in the Uk .. scroll to bottom of page
http://www.martexmarine.com/sprayhood_kits.htm
Quote from: Peppy on February 07, 2012, 04:17:38 am
If you're worried about pulls between fasteners, add more into the hem like June does and put the closer together.
I tend to get a pull from the windscreen fittings on the pram hoods i make and have been thinking of sewing
window material behind the reinforcement ?? I haven't done it because I was thinking it might
shrink too much. What do you do ?
Rich
Quote from: fragged8 on February 13, 2012, 10:34:32 am
I tend to get a pull from the windscreen fittings on the pram hoods i make and have been thinking of sewing
window material behind the reinforcement ?? I haven't done it because I was thinking it might
shrink too much. What do you do ?
Rich
Everyone around here wants the water stop/ stop leak rubber gasket. I don't really like it, buts its quick and they ask for it, so.... I go less than 8" apart on front windows. Usually around 6". And pull tight sideways between snaps.
How bout that Rich, Ijust happened to look at Marine Fabricator just now, and it's about fabric reinforcement!
http://marinefabricatormag.com/articles/0112_st1_fabric_reinforcements.html
Does anyone staple the seams together first like this guy?
Quote from: fragged8 on February 13, 2012, 10:29:32 am
been done in the Uk .. scroll to bottom of page
http://www.martexmarine.com/sprayhood_kits.htm
IMHO, the gaps under that sprayhood would let through a phenomenal amount of cold water and wind in foul weather. Now if someone was dead set against fitting it to the deck with track or turnbuckles, I'd be VERY tempted to sew some 60 gauge window material into the lower hem, flapped against the deck and fitted around the hand rails. I do the same for fitting against hard tops where there's a difference in level of the track(s) and/or snaps. Or if there's a gap when there's a transition from one part to another. I'll add in an extended flap, reinforced with something stiff to hold it against the top (always hidden between two layers of fabric). I've been in my share of boats where spray finds it's way through the tiniest gaps to get me wet and I don't like it a bit. When I want to swim, I prefer it not be in the cockpit or on the bridge of a boat.
And I put rubber gasketing around every windshield and wherever else I think it can help keep the water and wind out.
June
Quote from: Peppy on February 13, 2012, 06:50:23 pm
Does anyone staple the seams together first like this guy?
Nope, but I have, since day 1, added at least a 2" fabric reinforcement along the edges of all covers (I call it "facing" - Bobbin understands ;D) I just cut strips 2.5 inches wide and turn under 1/2" before stitching. I do staple the strip where I'll start sewing just to be certain I have everything placed correctly. I do facings on huge mooring covers so if I didn't staple the beginning of the strip my curves would be all off when I got to them. I cut curved strips. I do NOT (yeech! :-[ ) put them on with little folds to accommodate the curves like some people do.
June
Quote from: JuneC on February 13, 2012, 07:05:34 pm
Quote from: Peppy on February 13, 2012, 06:50:23 pm
Does anyone staple the seams together first like this guy?
Nope, but I have, since day 1, added at least a 2" fabric reinforcement along the edges of all covers (I call it "facing" - Bobbin understands ;D) I just cut strips 2.5 inches wide and turn under 1/2" before stitching. I do staple the strip where I'll start sewing just to be certain I have everything placed correctly. I do facings on huge mooring covers so if I didn't staple the beginning of the strip my curves would be all off when I got to them. I cut curved strips. I do NOT (yeech! :-[ ) put them on with little folds to accommodate the curves like some people do.
June
Same here june, takes a lot more time to cut them out individually as opposed to straight stripes, but I am not into mass production ;D and I find staples don't stay in too well either. I just mark the start & stop of each strip & number them or pile them up in sewing order.
Suzi
We do either or. Waterstop or facing. Usually when it's turnbuckles like a dodger or it snaps somewhere the gasket is going to get in the way we do 2" facing. Do you do both at the same time June? And I'm with you, I hate the foldy pleaty look of the straight piece bent to a curve. Unfortunately the sewer refuses to listen to either the boss or me and won't cut shape into the facing. Something to do with her red hair I think. She did actually admit to me this fall that she agrees that it look like crap and that she promises to change her ways. We'll see I hope she does because it really is ugly.
Rich that's a pretty cool idea for a dodger in a box. Would make it way easier for the customer to install it them selves. Although if I was selling them online I'd make the one I took pictures of a little less wrinkly. Looks like he got that one at the boat show.
Quote from: Peppy on February 13, 2012, 06:50:23 pm
How bout that Rich, Ijust happened to look at Marine Fabricator just now, and it's about fabric reinforcement!
http://marinefabricatormag.com/articles/0112_st1_fabric_reinforcements.html
Does anyone staple the seams together first like this guy?
Nice one Pepster, I haven't renewed my subs for MF mag yet ..
Thanks Dude, if you to Marks website he usually has those articles
in pdf format to download.
I do mine like June and Grebo, cut all the curved parts to fit the cover
unless its a real cheap cover and i'll use Dacron tape and fold it around the
corners/curves.
You lucky so and so's in the US can buy ready made reinforcement on a roll
we can't get it here.
Rich