Picked up this chair last weekend at an estate sale. I'm having a hard time pinning a date to it. I know it's not an antique but its for resale and the older the better. I'm hoping its from the 1940's but that's probably wishful thinking. More likely 50's maybe even 60's. I striped it down to get a better idea of the age.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2FOccasional%2520Curve%2520Back%2520Chair%2Fth_KentuckyOccChai.jpg&hash=02b3e0201704499b25742a872cc88b78) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/Occasional%20Curve%20Back%20Chair/?action=view¤t=KentuckyOccChai.jpg)
The top of the back has a unique design, but that probably doesn't date it
What makes me think its old is there was no poly foam used and the base for the seat and back was this mat type material. I think its horse hair. And a thick layer of cotton over that.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2FOccasional%2520Curve%2520Back%2520Chair%2Fth_KentuckyOccHair.jpg&hash=18d537c1608e6f9fb66b1dd931a24873) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/Occasional%20Curve%20Back%20Chair/?action=view¤t=KentuckyOccHair.jpg)
Here's the back of the mat.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2FOccasional%2520Curve%2520Back%2520Chair%2Fth_KentuckyOccHairmat.jpg&hash=aaa15306d453b37ba7556ab2238112fe) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/Occasional%20Curve%20Back%20Chair/?action=view¤t=KentuckyOccHairmat.jpg)
The front of the arm was covered
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2FOccasional%2520Curve%2520Back%2520Chair%2Fth_KentuckyOccArm.jpg&hash=e272d63be523db8992c0d48d85e6492c) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/Occasional%20Curve%20Back%20Chair/?action=view¤t=KentuckyOccArm.jpg)
And when I took the cover off there was finished wood underneath.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2FOccasional%2520Curve%2520Back%2520Chair%2Fth_KentuckyOccarAr.jpg&hash=43c20763abef78a931069a565ae3f137) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/Occasional%20Curve%20Back%20Chair/?action=view¤t=KentuckyOccarAr.jpg)
The finish is in exceptional shape but I'm sure its been redone.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2FOccasional%2520Curve%2520Back%2520Chair%2Fth_KentuckyOccLeg.jpg&hash=fadcd1b18b8387b93e2d63bd336631b3) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/Occasional%20Curve%20Back%20Chair/?action=view¤t=KentuckyOccLeg.jpg)
The only thing that tells me it's not old are the No Sag Springs. Although they are held together with little springs rather than edge wire.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2FOccasional%2520Curve%2520Back%2520Chair%2Fth_KentuckyOccSpg.jpg&hash=8dc984ea6ade0b8d7ff1fae635715305) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/Occasional%20Curve%20Back%20Chair/?action=view¤t=KentuckyOccSpg.jpg)
Does anyone know when this type spring was first used. Couldn't find any info on Google.
Honest opinions greatly appreciated. Thanks all
kodydog,
It doesn't look all that old. It looks like a large staple on the front leg/leg joint. Ziggar bases have been around a long time so it could be 50 or so. The fill looks more like straw from the picture. Hair is much thinner strands.
Id venture a guess maybe the 60s or 70s.
I agree. Probably 60's - 70's chair. I'm looking forward to see your finished project. Hope you post photo's of it.
Any earlier then the 60's would be a stretch.
Has anyone researched the exact orgin/first use of No-sag springs? That would go a long way in determining the earliest possible age for that chair.
I'm guessing mid-60's.
But like I tell my customers, "Today's reproductions are tomorrow's antiques".
I can't. I'm already married. LOL
I agree with the others, post 1960.
I thought I had read somewhere about the introduction of sinuous springs, a.k.a. S springs, a.k.a. zig zag springs, but I can't remember. It would be interesting to know when they came on the scene. My guess would be 1930's.
How do you sell your chairs? Internet, Craigslist local, newspaper, work of mouth, store front, consignment stores?
Thank you for your reply on the other post about this topic. I appreciate your comment that you focus on chairs. That is food for thought.
gene
I believe that padding is sisal
Wish we could still get them, they are very good padding to put on top of springs
Date of chair: late 60's to possibly up into the 80's. The finish on the wood looks to be lacquer also.
Zig-zag came into use in the 50's. A review of furniture as well as auto supports that. Early 50's cars were coils with metal wires and support. By the mid 50's use of coils was significantly reduced.
Thanks all for your expert opinions. I think I'll call it vintage and if anyone asks I'll say 1960's.
Paul, If you would PM your address I'd love to send you a piece of the matting. I don't think its straw but I don't think its hair either. I don't know what it is.
IBstitchin, I will post the finished product. Hope to finish it this week. Here's a pic of the fabric my wife picked out.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2Fth_WilliamsbugFabri.jpg&hash=b0f552c7f2a78e7eb9083960483a59eb) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/?action=view¤t=WilliamsbugFabri.jpg)
A real attention getter. Its called Williamsburg Ming Garden and the design is approved by the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. Neat.
Gene I'm going to start a new topic to answer your question.
Your wife picked a nice print. I think it will look great on that chair.
Hi Kody,
sorry for the late response, I understand that No-sag springs were invented in the 40's but like you i have'nt been able source the answer myself, but my colleague fired this link my way
http://www.nosag.com.br/site_nosag_eng/empresa.htm (http://www.nosag.com.br/site_nosag_eng/empresa.htm) :D
Rubberised hair or coir, or even hair and coir mix (which i think yours is due to the fibre combination) has been around since the fifties. I still use it a lot as an alternative to traditional or foam, the rational being my customers can get a natural filling but with a more modern process and closer to foam price.
http://www.cocolatex.com/rubberisedcoir.htm (http://www.cocolatex.com/rubberisedcoir.htm) this site is just the cocolock (coir and latex)
You can even stitch it to make a faux top stitch so it feels a bit like traditional. ;D
Alex
Thanks Alex, that was just the info I was looking for. Molas NoSag do Brasil was founded in 1949. Gene was right. I guess in my arrogance I always thought No-Sag was a U.S. company.
The Coco Latex link is interesting to. Sounds like a good natural alternative to poly foam.
kodydog, could that be shredded coconut?
gene
Ya know that is kinda what it looks like. When you pull one of the strands out its not smooth like hair. I'm sending a piece to Paul tomorrow. See what he thinks. That would be cool to put that in the description of the chair.
Getting back to No-sag springs. While they may have been introduced in the 40's, I think it was probably several more years before they were fully embraced by American furniture factories. I don't see many chairs with them that I could confidently place before the mid 50's.
What's ironic is, that No-sag springs require very strong wood to anchor them. So as they became more common, the wood got softer. To the point that I now see them mounted to wafer board.
Sofa, I once read somewhere that it generally takes 20 years for a product to go from introduction to mainstream. Examples: Television sets, cell phones, PC's. I have an Ice Box I salvaged from the family farm. My mom dates it to 1920. Even though electric refrigerators were widely used then they chose ice.
This would mean no-sags became standard use in manufacturing in the late 60's. Does this sound about right to you?
Quote from: kodydog on December 08, 2011, 06:21:46 am
This would mean no-sags became standard use in manufacturing in the late 60's. Does this sound about right to you?
Depends on how you define "Standard use". I think there was a fair amount of furniture in the late 50's with No-sags. But yeah, I don't think they really "took off" until the late 60's.
The VCR was invented in the early 60's, but you didn't see it in homes until the late 70's (and the damn thing weighed 100 lbs.).
Speaking of dating chairs, a lady called me a few years ago and offered to pay me my normal service call fee if I would simply come to her home and assess the age of her La-Z-Boy recliner (in order to settle a bet that she had with her sister).
Armed with the knowledge that all La-Z-boys have a tag stapled to the inside rear seat frame that clearly states the date of manufacture, I said "Sure, I'll be right there".
When I arrived, it was apparent that the 2 sisters had been bickering about it for quite some time.
I pulled the tag off, and showed them that the recliner was made in 1967.
While one sister began laughing maniacly, the other sister insisted that someone had placed that tag there falsely.
She contended that "My mama rocked me in that chair back in 19 hunnert and 42".
I certainly didn't want any of THAT arguement. I collected my fee and left.
BTW The difference between dating chairs and dating women?
The chair usually isn't as old as you thought. The woman is usually OLDER.
I agree with the general consensus of 1960 - 1970. 1960 makes it 50 years old - an antique in some circles! Personally I think they have to be over 100 years to be classed as antique.
Anyone know for sure? (it's definately 100 years in th UK)
Lynn
Lynn
Its true to say 100 years is the norm but the market is dictating the change towards shorter periods. "classic" is being used more "vintage" too.
The market for mid century modern is massive here.
Kody
If you want to put in a like for like filling, once you have identified the consistency i could possibly post you some out (if sourcing within the us is no longer possible) like i said previously we still use these types of filling a lot in the uk.
Thanks for the offer Alex. The mat padding is still in pretty good shape. The seat will need some more padding as you can feel the springs beneath it. Its not a period piece or anything like that so I think I'll just use a little poly foam under the cotton that's on it.
I sent a sample of the mat padding to Paul yesterday. Hope he has a better idea what it is. I'd like to put it in the description when I sell the chair.
Quote from: Joys Shop on December 06, 2011, 05:30:39 am
I believe that padding is sisal
Wish we could still get them, they are very good padding to put on top of springs
Maybe Joy. This from wikipedia.
Sisal (Agave sisalana) is an agave that yields a stiff fibre traditionally used in making twine, rope and also dartboards. The term may refer either to the plant or the fibre, depending on context. It is sometimes incorrectly referred to as sisal hemp because hemp was for centuries a major source for fibre, so other fibres were sometimes named after it.
The plant's origin is uncertain; while traditionally it was deemed to be a native of Yucatan, there are no records of botanical collections from there. H.S. Gentry hypothesized a Chiapas origin, on the strength of traditional local usage. In the 19th century, sisal cultivation spread to Florida, the Caribbean islands and Brazil, as well as to countries in Africa, notably Tanzania and Kenya, and Asia. The first commercial plantings in Brazil were made in the late 1930s and the first sisal fibre exports from there were made in 1948. It was not until the 1960s that Brazilian production accelerated and the first of many spinning mills was established. Today Brazil is the major world producer of sisal. There are both positive and negative environmental impacts from sisal growing.
Traditionally used for rope and twine, sisal has many uses, including paper, cloth, wall coverings and carpets.
For more info,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisal
http://www.google.com.au/patents?id=HvkBAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA3&dq=sinuous+furniture+springs&hl=en&ei=H8biTrexJObZ0QHMv53UBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEkQ6AEwCDge#v=onepage&q=sinuous%20furniture%20springs&f=false
gene
I grew up in the family mattress renovating/furniture upholstery business.
We used sheets of sisal to cover the innersprings on box springs. The scraps, we used to tack over springs on chairs (I remember seeing a lot of sisal scraps sewn together). It looked just like sisal rope, only in mat form. It was a great foundation for building up a seat.
Mattress renovation? Yup. My grandfather would come to your home, pick up your mattress. Take it back to the shop. Cut the tufting, and the lacing along the edge. Remove the cover. Re-gin, and re-pack your old cotton. Put a new cover on. Re-tuft, re-lace. Return the mattress to your home the same day (same day service was a MUST in the renovating biz).....all for $30.
Most upholterers seem to have grown up in the business or have grown up in a similar type business. I do not have any such background experience which certainly adds to one's abilities and knowledge.
gene
There is definitely some hair in this. It smells like hair when you burn it. But not much is there. The rest is plant material could be the shredded coconut mentioned as it looks like the outer shell fibers of a coconut. Or some other plant as there are branch sections like a plant. It is not straw, or moss. When it is matted together it looks like hair pad but looking at it closely I don't see hair but the smell burnt is undeniably hair. So if you want to call it something call it a blend of fibers containing hair and young plant material possibly coconut fibres.
A very interesting thread.
How come I have to scroll left to right to read the entire posts? Has anyone else had to do this?
Quote from: bobbin on December 10, 2011, 11:50:31 am
How come I have to scroll left to right to read the entire posts? Has anyone else had to do this?
Every now and then, there's a thread that "Goes wide" on us. Not sure what the deal is. I didn't notice it on this one until Gene posted that patent link.
Quote from: MinUph on December 10, 2011, 11:29:22 am
So if you want to call it something call it a blend of fibers containing hair and young plant material possibly coconut fibres.
Perfect description Paul. Hope you don't mind if I barrow it. Never in a million years would I think to burn the padding to see what its made of. You must be a forensic furniture detective. Thanks for your help, I owe you one.
Wow jean you have sinuous springs dated to 1936. Never dreamed they were that old. Interesting how the coil springs are on top of the sinuous springs.
Quote from: sofadoc on December 09, 2011, 08:47:29 pm
Mattress renovation? Yup. My grandfather would come to your home, pick up your mattress. Take it back to the shop. Cut the tufting, and the lacing along the edge. Remove the cover. Re-gin, and re-pack your old cotton. Put a new cover on. Re-tuft, re-lace. Return the mattress to your home the same day (same day service was a MUST in the renovating biz).....all for $30.
Talk about nostalgia. Could you see doing that in this day and age?
Kody it was written for you so by all means use it.
Here's my 60's era curved back occasional chair. Covered in a floural Williamsburg Ming Garden design, approved by the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. Padding includes a blend of fibers containing hair and young plant material possibly coconut fibers.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2Fth_WilliamsburgSide.jpg&hash=605f84dee6c3134bdf1db758533d9406) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/?action=view¤t=WilliamsburgSide.jpg)
For some reason my camera doesn't like this fabric. See how the top of the seat is blurred. I tried several different settings on the camera and different angles but couldn't make it go away.
OK, we've got the "wide body" thing goin' on again... pissin' me off, makes reading harder than it sholuld be.
Kody, I bet your camera trouble is connected to the background... it's all kind of the same shade and the fabrc doesn't stand out against it. Just a thought.
Good point bobbin. Is this background better.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx386%2FEdwinNorthuis%2Fth_WilliamsburgOut.jpg&hash=204665f0c76d39dea53e24833158c51f) (http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x386/EdwinNorthuis/?action=view¤t=WilliamsburgOut.jpg)
But the blur is still there. Look how the natural light changes the color of the fabric.
I don't have the wide screen problem. Between that and the jumping cursor I wonder if you and sofa have some kind if glitch in one of your programs.
What I get is if I am writing a post and jump to Google to look something up, then come back to the post, The cursor disappears. I can still type but can't see where the cursor is. If I hit preview and go back to message it reappears.
Yeah, I think the contrast is a lot better. But I do see what you mean about the "blur". I now wonder if the more muted palette of the fabric is the root cause? meaning that the basic color palette of the fabric is so closely related that the colors tend to "bleed" into each other when photographed? Sometimes I have the same trouble when trying to get a "good" shot of something that I think is noteworthy.
It's pretty fabric and nicely suited to the piece, Kody. Beautifully matched, too, I must say! Probably not something I'd chose for my own home (I tend to be a bit "out there" when it comes to colors/combinations, although I draw from traditional palettes), but it offers a great "starting point" and is familiar enough to blend in nicely with many decors. It's a lovely choice.