In the past, when manufacturing restrictions affected the quality of vinyl, it developed a bad rap - especially when compared to genuine leather. Dubbed plastic leather or "pleather", the general public disgraced the product and wrote it off as a cheap imitation of the real thing.
Today, technological advancements have improved the quality of leather-simulated vinyl to the point where it's arguably better than the real thing. The stigma, however, remains.
Read the 4 reasons why we think the stigma is unfair and tell us what you think: http://tinyurl.com/c9s98ew
As posted on your site....
I Must share a job actually two I've done last week and today. These were dinning room chairs, and a recliner. Both from reconstituted leather. I have to say this material surpasses leather in its hand. Very nice to work with. Not exactly vinyl but man made imitation leather none the less.
je ne sais quoi (uncountable)
An intangible quality that makes something distinctive or attractive.
If your talking about that cheep leather used on $800 sofas then defiantly yes, better to go with vinyl.
For the people who want leather its all about status. Driving a $60,000 Porsche with vinyl seats? I don't think so. These people aren't concerned about price. In fact they would rather pay more, it gives them the feeling of success.
I'm going to say no. Everyone thinks that leather is better than vinyl, but it never holds up as well.
The reconstituted (or recast) leather, which I call "leather hamburger", is typically only about 3-15% leather. The rest of it... vinyl.
-Andrew
vinyl was invented as a less expensive imitation of leather. Vinyl and other plastic coated fabrics will always be a cheap imitation of the real thing. No imitation will age or patina as fine leather will. Leather has stood the test of time. There are very few occupations older than leather worker. Hundreds, maybe thousands of books have been written on leather, leather working, or leather working tools. Would you admit to being a "vinyl worker"? Leather has character, vinyl is utilitarian. It's like comparing real fruit to wax fruit.
Johann
www.coachtrim.net
Kodydog: We couldn't agree with you more. For many people, it is more about status than pragmatism. For a lot of lay people, leather upholstery is a sign of class and wealth.
MinUph: We'll definitely be looking more into reconstituted leather. Perhaps we'll even write up a post about it for The Hog Ring. Thanks for the tip!
ahkahn: lol... leather hamburger? Love it!
coachtrim: You raise a good point. Leather, and especially leather work, has a long and rich history that deserves respect. And we do respect it. In fact, some of the most beautiful interiors we've ever laid eyes on were done entirely in leather. But like you said, we're speaking from more of a utilitarian perspective. For most people, the every-day drivers, it's more practical to have vinyl seat covers. The leather I'd save for my Sunday cruiser... something that deserves the care and attention that leather requires.
When I explain to customers, I use the diamond analogy.
There are many synthetic gems on the market that are better, prettier, and cheaper than diamonds. But for many, nothing less than a diamond will do.
I sell a lot of recycled leather. I refer to it as "The bologna of leather".
I tell my customers that genuine leather is nice, but you really don't get as much "bang for your buck" as with vinyls, and recycled leather.
So all things considered, I would have to say no as well.
We do work for a refinisher in Gainesville. He usually picks leather. When I tell him we'll work around the flaws he says, NO, leave them in. He says that's what leather is all about. Can't get that with vinyl.
One other significant point for those of us with a concience...
1) I would rather not share my vehicle with a corpse
2) An animal WAS KILLED AT HUMAN HANDS to provide that material. Give me vinyl or fabric every time.
Quote from: ajlelectronics on December 07, 2011, 06:52:57 am
One other significant point for those of us with a concience...
1) I would rather not share my vehicle with a corpse
2) An animal WAS KILLED AT HUMAN HANDS to provide that material. Give me vinyl or fabric every time.
You make a good point. I love animals as much as anyone but on the other hand vinyl is a petroleum based product that off gases toxic chemicals and fabric is produced in a corporate manufacturing environment somewhere in China using slave labor. Leather hides are usually a bi-product of the beef industry that would be thrown out if not used for this purpose.
Fair point, but I object to the killing of animals for any reason. In the 21st Century, there are many alternatives to the "caveman" approach.
Cavemen, and cave women, also drank water and breathed air.
I know a couple of vegans who say that they believe humans are destroying the earth and the only way to save the earth is for humans to stop existing. So far, none of them are willing to go first.
gene
I've been watching British comedy shows for awhile now. I seem to have taken a liking to their dry sense of humor. Or maybe I've always liked a dry sense of humor and I've finally discovered an entire race of people who are like minded.
Here's a clip that I had thought of when this topic first turned to vegetarianism, but couldn't find it until now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63NNuG-6-hQ
Oh, and if anyone thinks I'm being smug and arrogant just because I'm a meat eater, I think I would be just as smug and arrogant if I were a vegetarian.
Peace, or "peas" as some might prefer.
gene
Can we have the site administrators install a "like" button similar to facebooks?
Here Puss,puss,puss,puss! ;D
Kyle
One thing I do know Corbin who make bike seats the seat is leather but the sidss of the seat that get squished are vinyl.
Why so many people ask for leather for their cars is a mystery for me. The cloth the Mfg. uses now is so much better and will outlast leather. I sell so many products that will outlast leather and is softer and much easier to clean and keep up. Now I am talking Polyurethane Brand names are Ultraleather, Rave, Studio Collection and several more. If I was going to have something covered I would first want to be told about these kinds of products. If I came into your business and asked for Leather, would you sell me that or tell me I have options for you. I know it is easy to sell someone what they want but will you sell them a better product for the job? I sell leather and lots of things, but if I have someone call me and ask for xyz and was going to put it here, I would rather tell them that I have a better product for that job. And then let them make up their mind. This is what I do; do you do the same or just sell them what they ask for? Again I'm just asking. ;D You can ask Mojo.
When a customer asks for an estimate to do a chair in leather first I give them the labor then the price of the leather. After they recover I offer all the other choices. I usually start out by saying I can show you some vinyls that you can not tell is not leather.
Last week a fellow called with two recliners he wants done in leather. He was very surprised my price is higher than a new recliner. Next week I'll try to sell him on my best vinyl. But I have a feeling, being a guy, he's going to want leather.
I happened upon a web site once where people were getting into leather in a sexual way. Quite bizarre! I don't think there are any such web sites for Ultraleather or Rave.
Many people like the smell of leather. Of course there is the smell of leather in a spray can.
And you do have excellent points, Mike, about synthetic leathers?
I find that folks who want leather furniture, want leather, and not faux stuff. However, if you came into my business Mike and asked about leather, I would talk about leather, and not faux leathers. So how much of this is the customer and how much of this is me not talking about the benefits of alternatives to leathers? I will endeavor to find out! Another good point, Mike.
Thanks,
gene
I have several samples of vinyls that look like leather. Right now I'm looking for a chair that I can reupholster in one of these vinyls. I'm getting a lot of Calls for leather as well. I thought what better way to help educate someone about these new products than to have them see, touch, and actually sit on something that,s covered in it. Anyone have photo,s they could post of one of their projects? I sure would like to see it!
Since many new furniture stores use the word "Leather" so deceptively, many people have no idea as to the cost. The stores never call it "Leather", but they certainly don't correct YOU if you call it that.
Last week, I quoted a lady a price for covering a recliner in cloth fabric. She gasped, and then asked "Would leather be cheaper? 'Cause I know where I can buy a new leather recliner for $499"
I probably quote a leather job at least once a week. I end up doing a job in leather maybe twice a year.
They usually opt for Allante, Carerra, or a recycled leather.
Quote from: Mike8560 on December 09, 2011, 03:13:13 pm
One thing I do know Corbin who make bike seats the seat is leather but the sidss of the seat that get squished are vinyl.
Mike, I believe they do that for cost reasons. There is way more leather used in the side banding of a seat than the seating surface from my experience.
When was the last time anyone went looking for a nice pair of vinyl shoes.....LOL
Mother Nature grows something that man just cannot reproduce. Like Johann said, "Leather has character".
I do feel that nothing is as nice as real leather.
But with that said, I use them all, Ultra Leather and the likes, etc.
I feel that it depends on the application, cost, longevity, etc.
Usually leather wears poorly because the user does'nt take care of it or "over" takes care of it. It is a natural product just like us and matures and ages to perfection over time lol
Stitcher 8)
Quote from: Saddleman on December 13, 2011, 01:16:05 pm
When was the last time anyone went looking for a nice pair of vinyl shoes.....LOL
Around a fortnight ago. Not easy at all. Most of them are cheap and nasty products.
Mr. Stitcher,
What is the significance, or meaning, of a mummy walking on top of a cow?
gene
Gene, that's not just any cow, its a spotted dancing cow!!! 8)
Clearly the mummy is thirsty and everyone knows the best milk comes from happy cows.
Who was the first guy that look at a cow and said, "I think that I'll drink whatever comes out of those things when I squeeze them?" ~Bill Watterson
How much vinyl ends up in land fills for years and years? Leather on the other hand biodegrades and does not pollute our environment. This does not take into account the manufacturing process, which in some cases I suppose could be just as nasty as making vinyl, but I have seen naturally processed hides, wont find this with vinyl. I think vinyl has its place, marine applications are one place I think vinyl would out perform leather, just like fiberglass out performs wood, but people still love mahogany, teak and leather boats, they just require a higher degree of maintenance and care. Leather is supposedly more breathable than vinyl, making sitting on it more comfortable, especially during hot days, this may be true with some leathers, but some of the finishes, such as the shiny glazes I wouldn't think there would be much difference. Many people do not know the difference between leather and vinyl, that leather sofa for 499.00 only has leather on the seating surfaces, the rest of it is upholstered in a matching vinyl, same with car seats. When we upholster something we usually do the whole thing in leather, Just one very small difference in the pricing.
Miami Mike: It is nice to get your prospective on a subject like this, education concerning the many different fabrics available is hard for the small shop owner to come buy. The manufactures clams are very subjective and the shop owner ends up relying on his or hers past experience with a given blend of fibers, weaves and so on. Once this experience is deeply rooted it is hard to change someones prospective. It also makes it difficult to steer our customers toward one fabric or another when fabrics lines keep getting dropped and new lines added quicker than we are able to become experienced in using them.
I drive poor MiamiMike nucking futs. Ask him, he will tell you. :) I am forever asking him for help in selecting the right fabric for a job. :)
I cannot keep up with all the latest fabrics out there. This is why I call Mike all the time to get his input. The beauty of working with someone who I consider a fabric expert is that Mike has been inside the manufacturing plants and have seen how they make things. He knows the processes of manufacturing but the bonus is that he sells so much fabric that he knows what works and what doesn't simply by getting input from his customers. He knows what works in the North and what wont work in the extreme South. This info is invaluable to me because it helps me educate my customers and makes me sound like an informed and knowledgeable stitcher ( thank God they do not know the truth ). :)
I have worked a little with leather and I like how it machines but for longevity I would go with one of the vinyl fabricsand would push my customer towards a good vinyl.
While on the subject, there was such a stigma attached to vinyl that there was a move in the RV industry to start using the name Ultraleather in their advertising of interiors. I have had a number of people tell me they have leather seats. I hate to break their hearts and tell them no they have vinyl seats. Some have actually went out and bought high dollar leather treatment creams. :)
Chris
Gene,
Just being silly that's all
Stitcher