The December issue of Practical Sailor has a five-page article Functional Fabrics: Sunbrella and WeatherMax face off in a long-term test. Both are recommended. The sewability of Sunbrella was rated higher that that of WeatherMax.
Quote from: Tejas on December 01, 2011, 02:22:33 pm
The December issue of Practical Sailor has a five-page article Functional Fabrics: Sunbrella and WeatherMax face off in a long-term test. Both are recommended. The sewability of Sunbrella was rated higher that that of WeatherMax.
Thats a very nice first paragraph, but I will never pay to read an article about boat tops. Care to post a synopsis?
Briefly, Practical Sailor reviewed three marine fabrics:
Sunbrella (6001): $18.25 per yard / 10 year warranty; sew ability: excellent
Sunbrella Plus (8401): $23.40 per yard / 10 year warranty; sew ability: good
WeatherMax 80: $14.50 per yard / 5 year warranty; sew ability: fair
Half-dozen unnamed canvas shop "pros" were asked why Sunbrella was favored and reportedly "Handle-ability is a big consideration, and many find Sunbrella more user friendly. The material's texture is sewing-machine friendly, and with an industrial walking foot or a conventional-feed machine, there's no seam puckering or slippage."
Tests included breaking strength, ability to shed water and pressure permeability for new, after two years and standard Sunbrella after 10 years, and flogging and chafe testing.
Mechanical properties slightly favored WeatherMax.
I got some Sunbrella awnings in the other day from a customer. They were 3 years old and looked terrible. Stretched, distorted and they looked pretty poor. I have not been impressed with the Sunbrella material I have seen that has come off RV slide awnings.
I cannot wait to get my hands on the Sattler to see how that machines. Miami Mike just sent me a Top Gun cut and that looks like a nice material. He also sent along some Odyssey and am going to play with that as well.
Speaking of Weathermax, I screwed up my order ( my bad ) this week and got 14 yards of it. Hopefully I will get a request for a Weathermax job in Taupe color. :)
Chris
Are you sure it was real Sunbrella and not just a "knock off" or a very lightweight acrylic more suited to interior work? I've worked with the Glen Raven fabrics for a lot of years now and have found them very stable and durable. Aside from fading issues with the reds and yellows I think it's good stuff. The first set of awnings I made for this house lasted 10 yrs. easily, with one restitch.
They came off the factory carefree awnings. But it could have been a knockoff. They supposedly used Sunbrella but who knows.
If used for patio awnings or window awnings I am sure they are good. When you used for slide topper awnings they are not. They stretch too much, sag, bubble and then distort. RV'ers then have to pay $ 100 per awning to have them re-stretched. It has been an ongoing problem but one that makes me money. :)
Chris
Thanks Tejas! I know nothing about weathermax (aside from R.A.F.'s testimonials) but I do think sunbrella's gone for a s**hit recently. I think they're cutting back on the acrylic and amping up the 303. We're trying Tempotest, like sunbrella but thicker and with uglier colours.
We're sick of 30 year old sunbrella canvas out performing 5 year old canvas.
Peppy:
What I have found is the newer the fabric the worse it is. Their quality has gone down hill in the last few years. Carefree and A & E both do not use Sunbrella anymore. They have went to Recacril.
I have seen some old Sunbrella from 2000 and it was in decent condition. Right now I am having a run on 2008 slide out topper awnings where Sunbrella was used. Those awnings looked like crap. It is really strange how different years show up like this. Last year it was awnings from 2005. It appears 2006 seemed to be better as I have only had a few of those jobs.
Chris
Again, we use a lot of Glen Raven Sunbrella (marine canvas and awning work) and I have to say again that we've not encountered any marked fibre failure in it. We also use Dixon, and occasionally a Sattler (they have the best colors out there, IMO) and they perform reliably, too. I have heard good things about Recacril on this forun, though it's not come through the shop before and I've never worked with it personally. It's been a long time since we used Tempotest or another blast from the past, Para.
We do a tremendous amount of awning work (a lot of retractables) and even on the largest canopies I've never seen Sunbrella stretch way out shape or present an issue and I've been doing this sort of work for 20 yrs. now. Now, perhaps the lack of stretching is due to proper sizing in the cut, quality framing, lacing technique, and the fact that retractables are under tension when extended, but I have to say that Glen Raven turns out a good product overall.
Bobbin:
The slideout awnings have a vertical surface. In other words the awning lays flat. There is no curve or angle to the fabric.
What happens is that when it rains, the water pools in the center, the sun comes out, heats up the water and then distorts the fabric putting a bubble in the center.
I did replace a patio awning for a motorcoach that was made with Sunbrella and it was in good shape. But it has a good angle on it and runs water off. Other then that I have not replaced any awnings that have been used on an angle. I should also say that the vast majority of Sunbrella awnings I have replaced have been from High UV ray areas - Florida and Arizona.
I am guessing you haven't encountered any problems with Sunbrella because of the type of awning it is ( angle versus
flat ) and also because of the climate in your region.
Chris
I don't think it's really fair to expect a woven fabric (or any other, for that matter) to support the weight of accumulated rain water. I think that's just unrealistic, Chris, and unfair. I know exactly what you mean, though. I have seen biminis collapse under the weight of pooled rainwater, but that wasn't the fault of the fabric, rather it was due to inadequate crown on the frame that the fabric was stretched over! If you know the fabric will be basically flat, then it behooves the designer to incorporate some drainage (a few reinforced #0 grommets stategically placed works beautifully). In construction you always add pitch to any outdoor deck or roof!
I agree completely that UV is the real destroyer of fabric, though. I live in the northeast and we don't generally see the rapid degradation of fabric that those in the south or (esp.!) the southwest do. I suspect that's why there is a 5 yr. guarantee on the fabrics and why we in the NE regularly see a longer life that that. Here, in my little coHnuH of the country we generally expect to restitch work within 3-5 yrs., but boats that spend the winter mos. in the tropics are on a much shorter schedule, and we always use 138 on those!
Interesting disccussion.
I have a buddy of mine who ordered online a boat cover. he lives in new York. I ordered the same boat cover for mine down here. His is still going. Mine was ripped, tattered and complete junk in 6 months. Florida is brutal for fabric and thread. I believe what works great for Northern stitchers wont handle Florida or Arizona UV rays.
I am sure the warranty period would be longer on these fabrics if Florida and AZ were taken out of the equation. :)
Some people think I am nuts for using all 138 Sunguard but the sun and heat down here is downright brutal. On the awnings I use nothing but Solarfix ( Tenara ).
Chris
When I was a kid, we had an awning on our front porch made of canvas. (I don't think anyone had ever heard of Sunbrella in the 70's, or if it even existed).
That thing lasted at least 20 years! Why not just go back to natural canvas?? I wouldn't even know where to find canvas that heavy; I'm thinking it would have been at least 12oz? Some of my customers want this, but I have no source for it, and don't know if it would come treated, or if there's something you can spray on it to make it more waterproof.
I've tried out a little weathermax RAF kindly sent me
I won't be buying it anytime soon.
Rich
Jojo, the odds are that any "natural canvas" used for awings was painted and it was the paint that protected the natural fibre (cotton) from the ravages of the sun. You can buy 100% cotton canvas, in anywhere from 36-144" wide. I use it for the floorcloths I paint for customers. But you have to preshrink it before using it or you'll find yourself up the proverbial creek minus a paddle...
Acrylics are fabulous! they are king of the road and for good reason. They're stable, color-fast, and they work up beautifully in an awning application.
The "good old days" weren't always quite as rosey as we like to believe!
Just sayin', 20 years with virtually no special care seems to trump anything available today, painted or not.
Try pre-shrinking canvas and then applying the requisite coats of paint to deliver a "20 yr." finish and you will quickly learn that it's not as simple as you may think. Just sayin' ;)
Found 10oz pre shrunk for 5.99 yard, 60 wide.
http://www.sellfabric.com/servlet/the-636/fabric%2Ccotton%2Ccorduroy%2Csewing%2Capparel%2Cupholstery%2Cbuy/Detail
or this, which they claim naturally repels water:
http://www.phoenixtent.com/canvas.html
But 40 yrs. ago they didn't have the luxury of off-shore, pennies for an hour workers now, did they? Times have changed. 100% cotton canvas, pre-shrunk and painted has gone the way of the dinosaur, Jojo. Sure, you can reinvent the wheel if you wish, but why? there's a better product available... solution dyed acrylic!
I've been making awnings and boat canvas for a lot of years (20+yrs.) 100% cotton canvas can't compete with acrylics. Its shortcomings and the age of "plastics" set the stage for the rise of synthetics. I, for one, have no intention of wasting my time "looking back" to reinvent what too many THINK they remember as greater wearability!