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General Upholstery Questions and Comments => General Discussion => Topic started by: njpatriot on November 30, 2011, 11:00:20 am

Title: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on November 30, 2011, 11:00:20 am
 I have already posted this on the welcome forum and it was suggested that I post it here, so here we go.  I have had my Juki LU-563 brought in for service to have this same problem fixed many times.  I constantly have problems with my bobbin thread knotting or not catching on the needle.  There is always an issue with this machine.  It had it serviced in October and I just got to using it and It knotted up again.  I have attached a video of what one of the problems is, can anyone explain how to fix this if it is possible?  I have put a lot of money into this machine and I am on the verge of tossing it out.  I have never had the chance to sew anything on this machine, maybe it is not worth keeping around.  Any suggestions?   I am sure that it is operator error but I do not know what I am doing wrong.  I hold the needle thread tight and the bobbin thread tight as I start which is what I was instructed to do by the person that sold me the machine. 

youtube video options:

http://youtu.be/09rfpRGgZ4U

juki lu-563 problem 001.MOV
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: Toledo Mach. Sales on November 30, 2011, 12:03:37 pm
You must have it threaded wrong,when you put the foot down is there alot of tension on the thread?
Bob
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on November 30, 2011, 01:06:37 pm
Yes there is a lot of tension where I am holding onto it.  The little foot that the needle goes through closes on the threat that I am holding.  I am not sure how to thread it otherwise.  Thank you for your response. 
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: bobbin on November 30, 2011, 01:13:23 pm
Do you have an operator's manual and parts book for the machine? one of those will give you the proper threading pattern for both the top thread as well as the bobbin thread, the other the helpful exploded views of the various assemblies of the machine.

I had a  562 (small bobbin version of your machine) for many years.  It was a nice machine, but personally I find the model a bit quirky and persnickety about starting to stitch.  You have to hold the top and bobbin thread securely when you begin sewing or you'll end up with a big bird nest of snarled thread on the underside of the work.  Very important to remember that! big snarls can trip the safety clutch and leave you with a bobbin case that spins although the needle bar will not go up and down.  This is a safety feature to keep the machine from getting damaged by forcing it.  If that snarled thread thing happens repeatedly there is the liklihood that some of the thread has wound around and gotten jammed under the bobbin case, and this makes everything sieze up.  You then have to remove the throat plate, the feed dog, and lift the bobbin case out to remove the (usually tiny piece) of thread under the bobbin case.  

Caution:  put the tiny screws on a piece of paper towel where they won't hit the floor or end up the oil pan (ask me how I learned this).  Pay good attention to how things look before and as you disassemble the mechanisms (use your digital camera!).  It is important to pay attention to that because you have to get it all back together in the precise order and alignment to get the machine to work properly.  I know you are frustrated but this is a nice machine and with some help you will quickly master it.  
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on November 30, 2011, 02:07:31 pm
Bobbin, thank you for the encouragement!  I had that exact "birds nest" under the material that I was attempting to sew.  This is when there was additional thread knotted up under the plate where the bobbin is.  I must have tripped that safety clutch that you mention.  I have a poor copy of the owners manual.  My copy does not clearly show if the needle is threaded above the walking foot or if the walking foot is threaded followed by the needle after if passes through the walking foot.  I am saying walking foot, I am under the understanding that the foot that the needle goes through is the walking foot.  I love to have a copy of a repair manual to fix minor problems with this machine, but I have not been able to find one.  Thank you again. 
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: bobbin on November 30, 2011, 02:17:24 pm
All threading of any machine is done when the needle is in its highest position in the cycle.  For you, this means that you will pass the thread through the eye of the needle (from left to right) when the needle can go no higher.  Once the thread is through the eye of the needle rotate the hand wheel slowly and watch the needle descend and the hook pass by.  A loop will be formed and you want to pull the bobbin thread up through the hole in the throat plate so that both threads are under the presser feet.  The needle thread will then be through the hole in the centre foot.  Make sense?

This is one of the "persnickety" details that annoyed me about the 562 and the 563.  It's fiddly and if you don't follow the protocol you will find yourself in "a world of hurt".  Now that both threads are where they ought to be make sure you hold onto them "on take off" or the snarled, bird nest thing is sure to follow.  I certainly hope this helps you. 

Do yourself a favor and split some leather to buy a good copy of the both the operator's manual and the parts book.  They are invaluable and worth every dime.  Most times you can get them for zippo, too!
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: sofadoc on November 30, 2011, 02:48:14 pm
I'm with Bobbin's theory about a knot of thread UNDER the bobbin case. Did you remove the 3 tiny screws that she mentioned, and lift the bobbin case out of the hook assembly? That's where the knot would be at.
The thread goes through the eye of the needle, and THAT'S IT. It doesn't go through the welt foot hole (although that probably isn't causing the problem).
Did the service center offer any advice as to why this problem reoccurs?
Do you have new needles? What gauge? What size/type thread?
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: JuneC on November 30, 2011, 04:27:32 pm
What they all said...  Before pulling the hook out, though, flip the machine up and see if you can see any obstruction from the underneath.  Maybe if you can grip the tail end of the thread with a pair of needle-nose pliers you can wiggle the bobbin back and forth and get it out without pulling the whole thing apart. 

I have two Singer versions of that same machine.  My first one gave me fits for ages and I couldn't figure out why.  Same symptom as yours.  Random birds nests under the throat plate.  It took me probably 2 months to figure out exactly what was happening.  You see that little square(ish) protrusion on the bobbin case?  When you put the plates back over the feed dogs (the metal parts with tractor treads) and screw it down, that little protrusion needs to be between the little upside-down "ears" on the bottom of the plate. 

Now what was happening with my Singer was that any amount of tension on the thread would cause the whole enchilada to spin.  It's not supposed to.  The hook spins, but the bobbin case is supposed to jiggle back and forth and that tab needs to stay pointed left, toward the needle.  Mine would flip out from under the plate, regardless of how tight I fastened the screws and the bobbin case would spin completely around, causing a thread mess.  I solved the problem by simply replacing the throat plate that goes under the needle.  The "ears" underneath had just worn down letting the case spin.  Hang in there.  I know how frustrating it can be.     

June
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: sofadoc on November 30, 2011, 04:51:31 pm
Quote from: JuneC on November 30, 2011, 04:27:32 pm
What they all said...  Before pulling the hook out, though, flip the machine up and see if you can see any obstruction from the underneath.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting pulling the hook. I'm just talking about taking the bobbin case out and checking to see if there's a ball of thread under it.
I'm assuming that when it comes back from the shop, the tab that June spoke of is correctly in the slot of the feed dog plate. If not, you REALLY need to find a new repairman.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: brownie2 on November 30, 2011, 05:07:28 pm
I'm sure if you ask here, someone will tell you about a knowledgeable service center.
From your video, it appears that the feed dog is moving fine. It may need adjusted up more.  It should be a full tooth above the throat plate.  The single adjustment screw is underneath the machine.  
You mention that the bobbin holder doesn't spin.  It shouldn't.  The hook assembly should spin as well as the bobbin.  That sword shaped hook should catch on that triangle piece and stop the bobbin case from spinning.  (correct me if I'm wrong folks, I'm new to the machine as well).
I also think you should check under the bobin case by removing those three TINY screws.
Manuals are easy to find with a web search.  I hear that some of the downloads for $ versions are not very clear with the pictures.  A photocopy version may be best.  If you contact Greg at Keystone, he may be gracious enough to provide you with a nice PDF version for no charge.  If he does, it would be nice to order some stuff from them like I did!  They are some really nice folks.
If your machine isn't sewing perfectly when you leave the service center, they're not worth using again.  They should at least be abler to tell you if the machine is completely wore out or how to operate it.
Look up a youtube video of how to thread a consew 226,225, or singer 111.  THere all the same pretty much and most parts are the same.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on November 30, 2011, 05:18:26 pm
Thank you all for your assistance.  I removed the three tiny screws and removed the bobbin case to find a piece of thread underneath.  Once removed, I replaced the bobbin case and attempted to sew again.  I have another knot.  I had to walk away from the machine, I will attempt to clear the knot tomorrow.  I am going to review all of your suggestions again and see if I can clear this up.  Thanks again, I will keep all updated.

Jeff
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: Mojo on November 30, 2011, 05:39:01 pm
Jeff:

PM me your e-mail address and I will e-mail you a good PDF copy of the manual. It is the same one that I got from Greg.

Chris
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: Mike8560 on November 30, 2011, 05:58:43 pm
I just wanted to say I've for a couple tools o have at the ready

1 is a broken seam ripper.  The ball broke off kea ing the poi Ty part I use it to help
pull up
my bobbin thread pulling the loop up. And pick grad out from the bob in and I r have a set of curved tip
hemostats. Like June said I. An grab a thread and wiggle thebwheel
forward and. Ack a n slip it out  without removing the case.  A tackle shop should have theese hemostats many guy like them flyfishibg. 
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: sofadoc on November 30, 2011, 06:08:40 pm
Quote from: njpatriot on November 30, 2011, 05:18:26 pm
I removed the three tiny screws and removed the bobbin case to find a piece of thread underneath.  Once removed, I replaced the bobbin case and attempted to sew again.  I have another knot.

After removing the thread from under the bobbin case, did that at least take away the "rough spot" when turning the wheel by hand?
Try holding both threads off to the right, and rotate the wheel by hand until the threaded needle goes down into the fabric. Maybe even manually sew a few stitches. After doing this, does it still knot up when you sew by motor?
As others have stated, that model is cantankerous when it comes to starting off.
My Grandmother sewed on old Singers for 40 years. When she would try to sew on my Lu-562, it would take her exactly one nanteenth of a second to get it in a tangled up mess. It was strictly operator error. 
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on November 30, 2011, 07:29:40 pm
I am trying to clean up my last knot so I will post two videos of me attempting to load the bobbin and me attempting to sew.  This may help to explain my problem.  I will next attempt to try to sew my first few stitches by hand when I clear the machine up.  I will get back to this tomorrow, have to walk away from the machine again.

Juki LU-563 problem 1.MOV

http://youtu.be/IHfr6dIHOoI

Juki LU-563 problem 2.MOV

http://youtu.be/SuJzDkPuZYw
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: sofadoc on November 30, 2011, 08:01:08 pm
Try to pull the bobbin thread tightly to the left, so it will snap in under the tension leaf.
Press your right index finger against the bobbin so it won't turn while you are pulling the thread to the left.
It's a little hard to tell in the video, but if the hook isn't picking up the top thread on every go-round, then you have timing issues.
I always pull both threads to the right rear when I start to sew (and hold on to them). And I don't run the top thread through the needle hole on the welt foot.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: brownie2 on November 30, 2011, 09:35:33 pm
Try tightening the needle thread tension.
Is the thread fully seated between the tensioner discs?
Try both threads held to the back.
Those videos are great.  Someone should be able to diagnose the problem soon.
I have barely got to sew with my machine.  I took lots of it apart to clean.  I replaced a few items too.  Tonight after reading your post,  I threaded it up and had similar problems.  I first had to adjust the needle bar height then had to remove thread from under the bobbin case.  I too got frustrated and walked away till tomorrow.  I will fill a bobbin with matching thread and start over.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: Therapy on December 01, 2011, 05:39:03 am

I have the 563 and sometimes i cant get it to pickup
the bobbn  thread
What i do is tie both threads together
and then pull the bobbn thread up and cut it off
hay it works for me and sews just find
I would try this before you do anything
  Mike H
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: JuneC on December 01, 2011, 06:56:34 am
Can you post a photo of how you have the machine threaded?  It almost looks like your take-up spring on the tension assembly ain't working (or top tension is too loose) so that too much thread gets under the fabric. 

Also, instead of using the motor, turn the flywheel by hand with your fabric right on the edge so you can watch the hook do its work.  Using white thread will help you see.  Not enough hands?  Pull both threads out to the left and hold with the left hand while you start turning with the right. 

Hang in there.  We'll get you through this.

June
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on December 01, 2011, 05:50:26 pm
  Thank you all, I am up and running!  I started fresh this evening and took a little advise from all who gave suggestions.  I tightened the needle thread tension ensuring it was seated in the tension discs.  I removed all debris from under the bobbin case ( there was plenty of thread under there).  I threaded the bobbin thread under the bobbin tension spring by holding the bobbin as I pulled the thread to the left.  Once I threaded the needle above the walking foot I held it and the bobbin thread to the left for the first few stitches.  I started the first few stitches by hand to get it started, preventing the knots under the fabric.  This is the first time this machine has worked for me, and I an very appreciative for all of your help.  I am attempting to upload three videos of me as I was attempting to fix my problems.  I will post this and create another post with the videos if anyone is interested in viewing them. 

One more question, if my machine is successfully sewing does that mean that the safety clutch was not engaged and the timing is not off?  Thank you all again for your cooperation and assistance.

Jeff
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: sofadoc on December 01, 2011, 06:16:34 pm
Quote from: njpatriot on December 01, 2011, 05:50:26 pm
One more question, if my machine is successfully sewing does that mean that the safety clutch was not engaged and the timing is not off?

If the safety clutch had kicked in, the hook wouldn't be turning.
And if it is sewing sucessfully, then the timing can't possibly too far off.
Try this:
Put black thread on top
Use a white bobbin
Sew a couple of layers (medium weight)
If the 2 tensions are set properly, you shouldn't be able to see any white thread on the top, or any black thread on the bottom
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: kodydog on December 01, 2011, 06:25:56 pm
Quote from: njpatriot on December 01, 2011, 05:50:26 pm
I held it and the bobbin thread to the left for the first few stitches.  
Jeff


I usually hold my thread straight back or to the right when I start sewing. You will find your work will be on the left which will make it difficult to hold the bobbin thread that way also.

Feels good to finally get it going doesn't it?

Also BigJohn posted a good chart on needle and thread size here

http://get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/index.php?topic=6371.0
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on December 01, 2011, 06:55:45 pm
Here is my threading video.  I am working on the others.

http://youtu.be/tZArgqw_y00

Yes it does feel good to get it right.  Now I can get working!
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: brownie2 on December 01, 2011, 09:50:47 pm
Dang it!
Now I'm having pretty much the same issues.
I'll start over tomorrow.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: bobbin on December 02, 2011, 01:52:07 am
It takes a village, baby! good to know you're up and running.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: Mike8560 on December 02, 2011, 02:02:12 pm
Glad youngot it going it's can be frustrating.  I took a series of pix loadinb the thread  bit I see you got it.;)
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: bobbin on December 02, 2011, 02:31:43 pm
Now that you can actually operate the machine without tearing your hair, NJ, what sort of project do you have in mind?  (are you a Patriots fan who lives in NJ or a Revolutionary War Re-enactor?)

I was thinking about this thread today and I was reminded how much you really have to know to be able to operate a sewing machine with confidence.  I feel the same way about computers! and was dazzled by your linked footage. 

(big fan of the broken seam ripper as a tool, too, Mike! very useful, I like it for removing cheap, 20g. glass in window replacements)
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on December 02, 2011, 03:49:52 pm
   Not a patriots fan, patriot was my call sign back when I was in the military.  I am not a New Jersey native, moved here for employment with my family.  It njpatriot was just something that I use on the internet. 
   My projects are sewing dog leashes for police dogs.  The canine handlers like cotton leashes that I custom make to fit them.  Different people will wrap them around their waist, loop them over their shoulder like a sam brown belt, or around their neck past the front of their shoulder then clasp it around their lower back.  There are many different sizes so I measure them and sew them up.  Just a nice little hobby. 
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: brownie2 on December 02, 2011, 06:43:35 pm
did you ever get that last video?  I'd love to see video of the bobbin in action. 
I haven't tried again today.  I've missed something.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on December 03, 2011, 05:10:21 am
This is what I have.   I hope this helps you out.

http://youtu.be/FhKShSlMYM0

http://youtu.be/7jqZX7QRa9Y
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: bobbin on December 03, 2011, 05:34:45 am
NJ, big on obedience work with our large dog (100+lbs.).  I have a friend who had 2 completely out of control Labs., at least until they had to spend 10 days w/me.   ;)  First thing I did was fit them with training collars and buy 6' leather leashes for them.  And I spent "20 minutes a day" on obedience work.  It really is that easy. 

They knew "sit", and quickly mastered, "down".   We learned, "leave it".  And then, "wait".  And it was obedience work at every opportunity.  When she picked them up they were different dogs; more mellow and confident, attentive, and a whole lot easier to control, lol.  They'd learned to listen to me, look to me for direction, and were secure that everything I asked them to do meant they'd get praise.  What a concept!

What a cool hobby!
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: Mojo on December 03, 2011, 05:59:32 am
Quote from: bobbin on December 03, 2011, 05:34:45 am
They knew "sit", and quickly mastered, "down".   We learned, "leave it".  And then, "wait".  And it was obedience work at every opportunity.  When she picked them up they were different dogs; more mellow and confident, attentive, and a whole lot easier to control, lol.  They'd learned to listen to me, look to me for direction, and were secure that everything I asked them to do meant they'd get praise.  What a concept!

What a cool hobby!


I hope my wife doesn't see this post. She will be wanting to send me up there to you to be trained to do these things.  ;D

Chris
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: kodydog on December 03, 2011, 06:48:43 am
Bobbin that is quite a concept. One year for Christmas my sister in-law gave two cute furry puppies to her parents. They quickly grew into 80 lb uncontrollable devil dogs that everyone swore were dumb as rocks. But they loved them so that summer we drove to Pennsylvanian and spent a week building a fence and twice a day training.

First day on a 20' lung line. Every time the dog ran one way I went another. After 15 mins the dog learned to always keep an eye on me. We gave a crash course in all the basics but mostly heel and stay.

At the end of the week my sister in-law came over to watch us train. Her mouth hung open as the dog heeled next to me always keeping an eye on me. We did left and right turns, fast, slow, about turn, and when we stopped the dog automatically sat right next to me. I told the dog to stay and walked to the end of the leash, he never moved a mussel. Tons of praise. The sister in-law was dumbfounded and amazed.

At this point all the dogs needed was a once a week refresher. But of course nobody has time for that, and we live in Florida.

Point is almost any dog can be trained with as little as 15 min a day. Problem is the human needs to be trained first.

and it only took 3 pages to completely go off topic
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: Vtool on December 03, 2011, 08:20:15 am
has any one thought of a thread for different sewing machine help thread ? a place to post videos for individuals to view common problems. I have found this post helpful. Vtool
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: sofadoc on December 03, 2011, 08:28:05 am
Quote from: kodydog on December 03, 2011, 06:48:43 am
and it only took 3 pages to completely go off topic

Yeah, if a newbie looked at the thread title, and skipped straight to page 3, he'd probably think that somebody named their dog "Juki Lu 563". :D

Not a bad idea. I could get an Akita, and name him "Juki". Then get him a companion German Shepherd and name him "Pfaff".
Then I'll get a mutt, and call him "Chandler". ;D
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: bobbin on December 03, 2011, 08:40:57 am
I have a kitty who is a "talker", I could rename her Singer.  I like the idea of christening an Akita, Juki, too!

If I had 2 dogs or a 2 kittens I could name them Willcox and Gibbs...

Back to Vtool's suggestion, though.  It's a good one, it might be very helpful to be able to refer to a specific place on this site for specific machine help.  Would it be possible to archive videos, or would that hog up too much space and be redundant with YouTube offerings?
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: sofadoc on December 03, 2011, 08:53:25 am
Quote from: bobbin on December 03, 2011, 08:40:57 am
would that hog up too much space and be redundant with YouTube offerings?

Hell ain't half full yet, and neither is Youtube. As long as we link to them, or whatever photo/video storage website that you choose, it sounds like a great idea.
Actually, this has pretty much been available to us for quite some time. But only recently have most of us become savvy enough to upload a video.
I agree that it would be nice to have a board devoted exclusively for sewing machine problems/instruction.

Setting up different boards seems to be Bobby's specialty. I know that he doesn't check in as much as he used to, but maybe he'll see this.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: kodydog on December 03, 2011, 09:42:51 am
Sewing machine problems are a hot topic. They always seem to go 3 or 4 pages.

and thanks Sofa for masterfully steering this topic back on track
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on December 04, 2011, 05:40:17 am
  I have learned more about my sewing machine from trying suggestions posted here.  Problem/instruction would be a great thread!  Little hints like" keep tension on the needle thread when starting" was useful.  I have used an old singer 30-15 for my basic sewing needs, but it is a world of difference from my Juki LU-563. 
 
    Back to dogs, when training with them I always clean up their obedience and heal work by chewing on a hot dog.  When the dog looks up at me I spit a little at him and he gulps it down.  It keeps him looking up and where I want him along with a quick praise method that does not stop the exercise at hand.
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: Mojo on December 04, 2011, 07:06:57 am
I am sorry about not having that manual. I lost the one Greg sent me when I changed laptops.

Sorry about that. Now I need another copy. :)

Chris
Title: Re: JUKI LU-563 driving me insane
Post by: njpatriot on December 04, 2011, 03:56:08 pm
No problem.  Thanks for the effort.

Jeff