I found it amazing the amount of interest in all these blogs about taking Upholstery classes.
No one has raised the issue of cost.
As we well know, education in the US is big business, so it brings me to ask :
-1- how much are you willing to invest or spend in your Upholstery education?
-2- most importantly how much time are you willing too dedicate to your training/education?
-3- to what end are you seeking such an education?
Well, in Florida, if you want an education in Upholstery, you need to get arrested first :-\
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/facilities/region4/405.html
There are no commercially available classes, even in the "continuing education" (fun) adult classes that are offered throughout South Florida on school campuses where you can take everything from yoga to Chinese cooking to outboard motor repair.
Seriously, though, I think the most important question you ask is to what end? For self-improvement, interest in the skills or a love of doing hands-on work, the requirements for educational certification are much less than if you're seeking employment at a prestigious furniture manufacturer or design firm.
Now I don't do furniture (unless it's on a boat), but started just dabbling. At that point I would have paid probably a few hundred dollars for a local class had it been available. By the time I decided to go full-time, I had already gained most of the skills I need so any class would have been for "fine-tuning" and increasing productivity. At this point, I'd pay $1000 to $1200 a week for a class, IF (big IF) it could promise me a return for my dollar spent in increased productivity or reduced materials waste or customer satisfaction.
June
Tapissier,
Your questions are good ones and the good answers will vary with the type of student you ask.
Perhaps in most cases the idea of a class would appeal to someone who basically would like to learn to do the craft with the abition of doing all their own work or upholstery needs, to save money, and as a way to earn extra money from part time effort.
That group interested in taking training, would probably be willing to spend perhaps a few hundred dollars. They would justify the cost of the training by the amount of savings they thought they could derive out of performing their own work at home.
Then, if the same question was targeting journeyman upholsters, someone already in the trade who wanted to enhance their skills significantly to keep up to speed in the business, their answer would be different. This group would likely be willing to spend more because the return would likely be greater to them. For example, if someone wanted to get into authentic restoration of antique furniture, or learn how to do award winning custom interiors in boats or autos, then I believe this group would be willing to spend a bit more.
Then, turning up the dial, a state of the art class that demonstrated the benefits of interfacing computers with the rudiments of upholstery fabrication of about any category would definitely draw a different crowd and a higher course fee. The upholstery field, at the custom level has ignored this opportunity and much has and continues to be grabbed by smaller manufactures because of the efficiencies can be very profit making. Instead, we continue making a pattern everytime for a project that we probably did last week when if the operation was brought into the digital world the pattern could be made and reused. That is where the money could be made. All achieveable with the mathematics and computer digitizing capabilities that could be interfaced in what we do. So, develop a course, tailored to that end today and serious money could be derived. Instead we continue to argue over the best machine or best way to manually pattern something. Recently, in reading here there was interest expressed in software that would do pattern layout, well with a digitizing capability that could be easily addressed with great accuracy and the information could be stored for future use, again and again. The limit hindges on the imagination and intellectual capacity. Then, to add, set up a introductory class on benefits that folders and binders provide and how to effectively to incorporate them into your business would generate a lot of interest because its end effects. All these ideas might work very well in the right setting and would certainly draw a respectful return in terms of money to both the course developer and those interested. Like stated, you gotta believe and if so the limiting constraints begin to be lifted.
Therefore, the answers to your questions as to how much time, how much money would someone spend, would likely correlate with the percieved benefit from taking such a class. So, it turns out your third question answers the first two and that is logical because if there is greater benefit from doing something then a student will spend more time and money for the training. You have also heard it put another way, vision often establishes sights, training that facilitates meeting those goals are invaluable. That puts it more succinctly. How much demand is there for shoeing horses today? Some, sure but how much? ;)
Good questions, yes training can be big business, actually in any country. It is like any service or product, target the right group with the right quality and deliver, then it will sell.
The little class that meets for five or six weekends to learn how to build a simple ottoman is one product that will sell but it might not have an end that will attract the student who wants to seek higher challenges and rewards. The latter group would spend more, needless to say.
Like anything, just depends, hope you get my drift. ;)
Doyle
So you want to become a pro upholsterer: (meaning you want to make a living/career out of it and eventually support a family)
How to get the proper training/education?
first and foremost you need to be in the right environment.
Upholstery is a metropolitan trade, you need to be in a huge city like NYC.
-1- asses you own talent, you need to be a good mechanic in order to become an upholsterer. You also need upper body strength and particularly forearms and hand strength.
If you do not have common sense nor a mechanical mind, forget about it.
-2- You need to devote 3 to 5 years of your life learning/working and NOT thinking about making money.
-3- Sign up with a shop for minimum wage and keep a photographic journal as well as regular journal to take notes and diagrams.
-4- Read , read and read again, all there is available on upholstery literature.
If you are in a big metropolitan area chances are you will find plenty of material patterning to the upholster trade in a public library. I did find myself a 19th century trade book on upholstery, and that's where it's at!
-5- go to museums and learn about decorative art and furniture history, train your eye on how furniture were done and how it is supposed to look.
You will not be a good upholsterer is you do not have the basic academic foundation, you will need visual references in order to recreate and perform tasks.
-6- go to a furniture store, and dissect the chairs and sofas , try to to reverse mechanical fabricating.
-7- practice, practice and practice, upholstery is a trade where the body and muscles need to get trained. Start with a square foot stool and do it as follow:
a- all hair, no springs.
b- all hair with springs
c- all hair with springs, tufted
d- all hair with springs, semi-attached cushion ( down)
now repeat the exercise but with foam.
-8- ask questions, and demand answers.
-9- move often form shop to shop , do not stay in one shop, meet as many seasoned upholsterers you may encounter and pick their brains, be aggressive.
-10- master the foundation before thinking about fabric, each task should be as well done as if it was the fabric. If you wait for the fabric stage to devote all your attention you will give your self unnecessary stress,
on the other hand if you apply yourself from the get go, when its time for the fabric you will stress less.
Anyway, who on earth would devote 5 years at minimum wage for entering a work force already saturated with illegals?? I'm such a downer!
signed: your devoted and disillusioned upholsterer.
I'm such a downer!
signed: your devoted and disillusioned upholsterer. ;D
Of course that is a key ingredient for being a good upholsterer. Tap. I'm not sure what you mean be Mechanic maybe that is what is missing from my work? The internal combustion engine that propels these horse-less carriages has long been beyond my sphere of comprehension. ;D
On a more serious note there are some excellent points discussed here. DB integrating digital technology day to day is a tricky one for a lot of upholsterers one example of a potentially key area i'm championing at the moment is digital textile printing, I really do see it as being a great way to counter this trend for discount fabric warehouses that encourage our customers to to by-pass us supplying fabric and will give us the opportunity to deliver truly unique (custom) products.
As to how much incoming apprentices/students are willing to invest, in cash terms here in the u.k its probably going to take around £8000- £10,000 ($12,000 - $15,000) to get your paperwork. Tappissier among your many valid and accurate points you hit the tack squarely on the head by talking about how much time people are willing to invest in learning, You cant buy muscle memory you earn it by repetition of process, repetition of process, repetition of............
I am concerned that the model of a commercial training centre will fail the industry long term, one/two days per week study or short bursts of study are simply not enough on their own not by a long chalk. June c points out the only real people accruing funding are ex-offenders, its the same here in the uk. I see no reason why some ex-offenders cant become upholsterers but there are many attributes required to blossom into a seasoned and skill craftsperson and if you cut out 95% of society to only recruit from a narrow band then your never going to achieve the very best that is possible.
There are a few things i can't (am not willing to) discuss in an open forum, examples of mal practice, conflicts of interest and protectionism/nepotism in trainning. It really does keep me awake at night, i wish i didn't care about the generations of upholsterers to come but when traditional values course through you veins and the knowledge you hold feels like a privilege its hard to reconcile. I keep coming back to the guys who passed on their knowledge to me, sitting on my shoulder restlessly questioning what am i going to do to help uphold the craft?
In 1995 I had an apprentice that went to London College of furniture, thru the Rural Development Commission.
It was 1 year full time, practical and theoretical training.
he was 32 and never drove a nail in her life prior to this.
She graduated with honor and went on working with a top shop in London for 2 years, then came to me for an other 2 years.
She is now in business in rural VT and specializes in traditional Upholstery
In 1997 I had an other Gentleman that took my classes in Boston and went on becoming my apprentice for 5 years.
He was 31 when he started upholstery, and became a pro, now he makes good living in a custom shop in White Plains NY.
Today I have a young lady that graduated from Boulle school.
She is still a novice in spite of her education , she has a ledger at work and keep notes and photographs all day long. She is a good pupil and will stay for 18 months until her visa expires, she is 24 and last week she started a spring job that has rows 6 coils in depth X 8 coils in the length. (#2's)
I pay her $10.00 per hour.
In a month I will have an other young lady hat just graduated from Boulle school , she has a certificate of aptitude in cabinet making AND in Upholstery, she is coming to train for 7 months @ $7.25 per hour.
I love having young blood in my shop and I love being surrounded by smart and challenging individuals, but I really have a problem if you come to me with your so called 20 years of experience and you would not even know what a flexolator edging is about. or if you do not know how to sew a zipper, I did not invent upholstery and certainly not the English language, know the proper lingo of the supplies and technical terminology.
When people tell me they will to do it "my" way, I reply it's not my way it's the academic way.
here's a good one: http://thelondonchaircollective.com/
great concept, based on common interest. Totally foreign here in the US.
Glad you like it they are all my ex students, I'm very proud of what they are doing.
Quote from: alge on October 02, 2011, 02:46:39 am
a potentially key area i'm championing at the moment is digital textile printing, I really do see it as being a great way to counter this trend for discount fabric warehouses that encourage our customers to to by-pass us supplying fabric and will give us the opportunity to deliver truly unique (custom) products.
Funny you should mention that. My daughter just sent me this website a few days ago. I wonder about the quality of their upholstery weight fabric, but I can see just this sort of service taking off. I'm sure there will be developments in the technology.
http://www.spoonflower.com/welcome
June
Quote from: tapissier on September 29, 2011, 06:13:07 pm
I found it amazing the amount of interest in all these blogs about taking Upholstery classes.
No one has raised the issue of cost.
As we well know, education in the US is big business, so it brings me to ask :
-1- how much are you willing to invest or spend in your Upholstery education?
-2- most importantly how much time are you willing too dedicate to your training/education?
-3- to what end are you seeking such an education?
Bringing this thread back to the original questions.
6 years ago I attempted to make a career change during the housing boom. Carpentry always interested me so I enlisted in a vo-tech course called Construction Technology.
To answer question #1. The advertised price was $600 per semester. After taxes and a state mandated fee of $100 to help the less fortunate (another tax) the tuition was $1000 every semester (3 months). I took 2 semesters.
Answer # 2. 5 hours a day 5 days a week then go home and work 8 hours then do a couple hours home work each night.
Answer # 3. To learn more skills and make more money. I would not take the class or make a career change if I couldn't make more money.
When I interviewed the teacher I asked him if I could make $20 an hour when I finished his class. He said yes. He said experienced carpenters (in Florida) were making $30 to $40 per hr.
I did well in the class and learned a lot but for personal reasons I didn't finish the 2 year course.
Would this be a good comparison to someone taking an upholstery course?
This is the course I did,http://www.holmesglen.edu.au/careers/furnishing_and_decoration/certificate_iii_in_upholstery (http://www.holmesglen.edu.au/careers/furnishing_and_decoration/certificate_iii_in_upholstery) except instead of doing 1 full day a week over 3 years, I did 5 days a week for 26 weeks, it cost me nothing and I got paid an allowance which was equal to unemployment benefits .This is why I don't mind living in one of the highest taxed countries in the world, after I did the course I went straight into a NIES schemehttp://www.kangan.edu.au/industry/bec/neis/ (http://www.kangan.edu.au/industry/bec/neis/) which got me the start that I needed and I am now paying back the government in the form of taxes. i get irritated when I hear businesses whinging about having to pay tax, well you gotta be earning a fair amount of money before you get taxed, so I ma quite content to get a tax bill. Also you can do part time courses with the same teachershttp://www.holmesglen.edu.au/programs/short_courses/furnishing_and_decoration/furniture_re-upholstering_-and-_repair (http://www.holmesglen.edu.au/programs/short_courses/furnishing_and_decoration/furniture_re-upholstering_-and-_repair) a bit expensive but no shortage of hobbyists.
Here in the USA we tax business so much that their all moving to countries with lower taxes. Don't you find taxing business creates inflation as they just pass the tax on to the consumer in the form of higher prices on their product?
New York is a good example. Business and wealthy people are leaving there in droves because taxes are so high.
Without getting too political, there was an interesting column near this subject yesterday:
http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/11/TheFinancialMessintheUSandEurope
Quote from: scottymc on October 02, 2011, 08:22:13 pm
it cost me nothing and I got paid an allowance which was equal to unemployment benefits .This is why I don't mind living in one of the highest taxed countries in the world, ... which got me the start that I needed and I am now paying back the government in the form of taxes.
I guess you can either pay in advance, pay as you go, or pay in arrears.
One thing about upholstery is that I can earn while I learn.
I worked for a guy who had about 6 months of training in upholstery. He did not start out restoring antiques. He started in repairing furniture for furniture stores. I did all his high end custom work. To be honest, he makes more repairing furniture then I do restoring high end antique sofas and chairs. I have a lot of stress making it perfect and repairing bad work. While he repairs junk with minimal skill needed. He get paid per service call even inspections. While I spend ours a week giving free estimates.
To me it's not can I make money or how long does it take to make money, but simply the old model of high end furniture upholstery may not be as needed as it once was. There is a lot of furniture that the dog chewed, or the movers damaged, or has defects when made.
My point could be that new furniture is made to be built with little skill needed while older furniture was made by craftspeople or tradespeople.
I know I could not have started 27 years ago restoring 1700 William and Mary Chairs and sofas. I started out repairing new furniture and little by little I did dining chairs, then ottomans, then wing chairs, then recliners, then love seats and sofas, then did my own cutting, and then my own sewing until after some time and skill learned, I could pretty much do it all in furniture upholstery. But I started slow and small and built.
I know and admit that I still don't know it all after 27 years and working at 9 or 10 different shops, and nether did the shops I worked for know it all. I'm still learning and improving.
I know I can teach someone to make money in upholstery pretty quick. I've done it a few times. One would start slow like repairing furniture or restaurant booths. I don't need to know everything about everything to make it. I've been teaching upholstery for over 10 years, and it really has to do with the student more then anything else. Some take what you teach them and go with it. While others worry about not knowing what to do. When all they really need todo is start and move foreword. I guess some just don't have the pictures in their head of the next step.
The biggest challenge I have with my students is to teach them the process of upholstery. To often I've had them come to class with a stripped frame feeling they have made a great start. Sorry Big mistake.
Tools, process, mental focus, vision, mental map all play a great part.
It can be done. Maybe it's that I look at upholstery as a skill rather then a step by step process.
Quote from: OneBoneHead on October 03, 2011, 01:26:46 pm
The biggest challenge I have with my students is to teach them the process of upholstery. To often I've had them come to class with a stripped frame feeling they have made a great start. Sorry Big mistake.
Tools, process, mental focus, vision, mental map all play a great part.
It can be done. Maybe it's that I look at upholstery as a skill rather then a step by step process.
I think this is one of the trickiest aspects of upholstery teaching (for me personally anyway), conveying that the processes that are being looked at are not set in stone but need to be adapted in form to each and every piece. The method for one piece don't always fit for the next but tweaking the basic concept and applying it to the next job in a time scale that makes money is the true skill.
Perhaps we should all meet up get our heads together and pool our experience and set a super company doing "on the job training" in a live commercially viable business.
Ok maybe not geographically possible and maybe our styles would clash a little but there are some really good things being said in this thread.
Algae, its all about the fabric.
the fabric calls the day
the fabric calls the method
the fabric calls the skill
the fabric is and will be forever the boss.
WE, as upholsterers, are at the mercy of the fabric, that is why, education os paramount.
Every upholsterer should know about fabric and how it is made, the contents, the different weaves and so forth.
Some fabrics are not compatible with upholstery and so many times I had to give a lecture to the designer about what is and what's not appropriate for upholstery..
On the other hand, if you give a Holland and Sherry suit fabric and you want me to make you a custom couch, I will not turn down the challenge, just raise the cost, for it will take more time, more prep work, and even the outside will have to be in muslin, the sewing/tailoring is totally different from your average Robert Allen piece of good.
As for Upholstery education how about this: http://www.upholders.co.uk/upholding%20our%20trade.htm
Thank goodness we slightly disagree, albeit due to legislation.
For me the budget/breif is boss, in the uk we have a lot of loose fillings to hand so we can tailor the upholstery pad (Deck?) density with similar techniques but the filings cost vary, horse hair pound for pound is ten times the price of coir. and the mixes of fibre in between are fractions.
Fabric and filling suitability is made easier for us due to Fire regulations which means most non upholstery fabrics are illegal for us to use so we can say No very easily and legitimately.
http://www.fira.co.uk/publications/flammability-guides (http://www.fira.co.uk/publications/flammability-guides) here is a guide to the regulations. Anyone importing upholstery into the uk needs to comply with these regs too (Antiques have a different compliance)
As to the Upholders company. Do you actually know me and are in fact are reminding me that i am demonstrating the craft on behalf of the company for three days later this week? if so dont worry i wont forget this most important of events, if not then how funny/coincidental you mention them. They are good guys (and ladies) who every year issue small but helpful bursaries to many students. Every june they asses my students and ultimately my work and honestly do give me feed back if i have missed something.
Alge
So Alge are you a member of The Worshipful Company of Upholsters of the City of London?
That web site Tapissier posted makes me want to go to London and learn the ancient skills of the craft of upholstery.
To bad there's nothing like that here in the States. That I know of.
Hi K.dog
In short no, I'm not a liveryman its a pretty long process starting with becoming a freeman of the company and getting the the freedom of the city (of london) first, to get that first you need to be proposed and seconded which requires a fair bit of dedication and commitment to demonstrate your commitment to the craft, hopefully my efforts are not going un-noticed and in time when the livery feel appropriate I will be invited to step up. to be honest i'm simply happy to repay the company in kind for the help and advice offered to our courses at the moment and if it goes anywhere that all good if not then so be it.
This particular event will be attended by up to 140,000 apprentices from many crafts and trades + school children the aim is to make the young uns think about a career that does'nt rely on celebrity antics. If a few get a better understanding of what a chair is and the skills employed to make one the hope is a few may pursue a career in furniture.
I'm sure if you ever make it to london we could introduce you to some top class upholsterers and some awesome chairs. :D
Hi Algea, who would be the top custom upholstery shop in London?
Thank you
Quote from: tapissier on October 05, 2011, 08:35:25 am
Hi Algea, who would be the top custom upholstery shop in London?
Thank you
Tap, I love your directness, but I cant answer your question, i'm a director of our national trade associstion and represent 400 other members equally. I'm sorry it may appear lilly livered but I wont be drawn into saying so and so is better than so and so. Besides There are so many faces to best .....best at self promotion.....best at adhearing to confidentiality agreements they sign with their clients so never discuss their work or use example images. I hope you catch my drift. Who do you think the most prestigious clients in the uk could be? If you work for them you dont shout about it or you loose the contracts sharpish I imagine.
Try contacting the upholders company directly they would no doubt help you out if you asked in a more detailed way, but I image they would answer with a few company names rather than say in a city of 10 million people one company is best at every facet of the craft.
I do hope that helps.
Quote from: alge on October 05, 2011, 10:28:32 am
Who do you think the most prestigious clients in the uk could be? If you work for them you dont shout about it or you loose the contracts sharpish I imagine.
I imagine it might be more who you know than what you know, ;), ol lizzy would have so much furniture lying around she would have her own upholstery shop out the back of the stables wouldn't she?
Algae, I understand in spite of the fact I can give a list of the best in Paris ( the Upholstery barons), and the best in New york, best in terms of quality, craftsmanship, integrity, "savoir faire", tradition.
To me a top shop is a shop that can create any piece of upholstered furniture according to the laws our ancestors laid down.
A top shop is a shop that does 17th,, 18th 19th and 20th century upholstery technique and fabrication.
Plus wall upholstery and any style of window treatment.
There are such shops in France that have members of the guilds and recipient of the distinctive medal of " meilleur ouvrier de France".
These guys compete between each others and its all about being the best in your trade following tradition and values that deeply rooted in the culture.
In New York its different, there is a different culture and definitely not pro- craftsmanship.
So the ones that succeed have a motivation beyond what we could find in EU, here, you really have to want it, it builds character and it has its pros and cons.
The standards of the Upholstery trade in NYC has been set by Italians, a couple of generations ago and the know how has been handed down from father to sons. So what you find in these top shops is a version of European technique, but Americanized.
In other words, when you build an edge it has to be soft right away, no one has time to brake it down like a new pair of Jeans.
It has to be soft but hold, and that requires a different hand altogether. The use of synthetic hair is very common and it does help making it all softer.
At any rate I always wandered who's who in the major cities of the world.
Best wishes