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As an outsider looking in, your right to bare arms has really baffled me, that sign says so much about the person who erected it.
That's great Gene. On the way to a customers house I noticed signs all pointing to one particular house. A closer look read, "a sex offender lives here". The house had a for sale sign up and three months later he was gone.
The right to bare arms is a good deal different than the right bear arms. Or arm bears. ;)
i have to say the right to an armed citizenry is central to the idea that the government is "of and by the people". And it's important and central to the founding documents of our country that that right is discussed and upheld. How we, as a nation, decide to stick to the "letter of the law" with respect to that particular amendment (#4) to the Constitution of the United States will likely be debated long after I've drawn my last breath.
To outsiders the debate seems silly, but if you're an American it isn't! It is central to our personal rights and while personal feelings change with the times the greater issue has remained pretty straightforward in every case that has landed before the courts at a state and Federal level. As an American it is my legal right to keep and bear arms. That is so that no government of my country may coerce and force me into subjugation. It is also a sure-fire way to ensure that no other sovereign government can easily overpower my government and therefore easily subjugate me. Naturally, the subject of control arises and remains a very hot topic. But the right to keep and bear arms is central to who we are as a country.
It's Amendment #2
Eric
Thanks Eric, it's Article 4! my error.
Quote from: kodydog on September 03, 2011, 04:11:25 pm
On the way to a customers house I noticed signs all pointing to one particular house. A closer look read, "a sex offender lives here". The house had a for sale sign up and three months later he was gone.
I'm certainly not going to defend sex offenders. But why don't we ever see a sign that says "A murderer lives here" ? I think I'd rather take my chances with a sex offender living next door, than a murderer, an arsonist, or a gang of drug dealers.
Well I see a sign like that and I see someone that is bullying his neighbor because he is not like minded, which is scary cause the bully owns a gun.
I believe in gun control...... I want to hit what I aim at ;)
Rick
Quote from: sofadoc on September 03, 2011, 05:14:51 pm
Quote from: kodydog on September 03, 2011, 04:11:25 pm
On the way to a customers house I noticed signs all pointing to one particular house. A closer look read, "a sex offender lives here". The house had a for sale sign up and three months later he was gone.
I'm certainly not going to defend sex offenders. But why don't we ever see a sign that says "A murderer lives here" ? I think I'd rather take my chances with a sex offender living next door, than a murderer, an arsonist, or a gang of drug dealers.
We had a "sex offender" in our town, it was a small town so there was no need for a sign, it was not quite clear on what he did but plenty of rumours. It seemed like a good excuse for normally nice people to act like outright a__holes with the backing of the community, interesting and sad to watch.
Thank you Bobbin for a clear and to the point post.
I am a gun owner as well as a CCW permit holder. I carry a 9mm but my love for guns comes at the range. There is no better stress reliever for me then packing up all my guns and heading to the range for a morning of shooting and competition. God Bless this great nation for allowing me to be able to do that.
Scotty. In Florida ( as well as several other States ) we have what is referred to as the Castle law. This law states that I have the right to shoot and kill any intruder who may break into my home. This law also extends to my car and my RV. In addition, since I am a concealed weapons permit holder I have the right to save my life or that of another by shooting someone I witness committing a forcible felony and who is armed with a weapon.
To outsiders you would think we were all a bunch of cowboys but in reality 98 % of gun laws are broken by criminals, not your average citizens. I have never had to so much as unholster my weapon. In Australia they took your guns away. Now the only ones who have guns are the criminals. In the USA 70 % of homes have guns which is why our home invasion and robbery statistics are so low.
I would hate to think what our crime statistics would be like if we were not allowed to own guns. They are a major part of our heritage.
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on September 04, 2011, 04:41:21 am
Scotty. In Florida ( as well as several other States ) we have what is referred to as the Castle law. This law states that I have the right to shoot and kill any intruder who may break into my home. This law also extends to my car and my RV.
Chris
I wonder if that golds true in. Boat also
me not a gun owner. Not against it
I k kw many boaters
also carry onboard anchored in a cove dark at night or mine off shore and to have a boat aproach you from the distance could be anybody. Didntounhead of thebcharter boat out of Miami where the captians and crew were dumped in the ocean ?
There is still some piracy taking place in the Carribean. Mainly drug cartels who steal boats from owners, dumping their bodies over the side.
Yes you can carry a weapon in your boat. As a matter of fact they had a special on boat safety which included a shotgun designed for boaters. This show was on Ship Shape.
Chris
In my rural neighborhood every homeowner has a gun. Even the 80 year old lady down the street. If you don't have one when you move here we'll give you one. It's not unusual to hear gun fire (target practice) all hours of the day. Our crime rate is 0%.
Gene's pic reminded me of a front yard sign in my town. The house is surrounded by barbed wire with a sign that says the property is protected by ex-Marines. The sign says "YOU WILL BE CHALLENGED--YOU WILL BE STOPPED!!
The owner of the house is this guy:
http://www.upi.com/topic/Donald_Lee/
He drives an old Trans Am that's covered bumper to bumper with stickers and decals. The car has a megahorn mounted on top. If you get in his way, he will let you know it.
He married Susan Atkins (Charles Manson's gang) back in the 70's.
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My neighbours sign could read "HIS HOUSE IS UNLOCKED!" (It's true. In fact I don't even have a key to my house.) I could put a sign on my lawn saying "SO IS HIS!" I'd rather have stuff stolen than a broken window. But they wouldn't break into my house cause I don't have what the majority of robbers are looking for...GUNS!
Rue Pepys. Friend once named his. Oat absolute with a bots and glasses on the transome to probly kids broke his ca on door to get in only to find a six pack in the fridge
Man, I wanna be the rootin'est tootin'est upholsterer; I'm getting myself a bazooka. Other than mandatory m-16 rifle experience in Air Force basic training, I've never touched a gun before or since then.
Peppy, I don't lock my door either, nor do any of my neighbors. The day I have to, I'll move.
Mike, are you saying that a six pack is not worth breakin into a boat for?? :o
Quote from: jojo on September 04, 2011, 01:39:48 pm
Man, I wanna be the rootin'est tootin'est upholsterer; I'm getting myself a bazooka.
Here's one ;)
http://www.rochfordsupply.com/shop/Upholstery_Tools/Air_Equipment/Bazooka_Filler/index.html
Quote from: jojo on September 04, 2011, 01:39:48 pm
Peppy, I don't lock my door either, nor do any of my neighbors. The day I have to, I'll move.
Same here. I don't lock my door, nor do I own a gun. But that doesn't mean that I'm against private citizens owning them. The gun is the great equalizer between the strong and the weak. So I fully understand the need for them depending on where you live. But like Peppy, when I need one. I'll move.
I've lost my wallet 3 times in the last 15 years. It contained at least $300 each time. Most recently at a Little League game, my wallet containing over $600 fell out of my back pocket while I was sitting in the bleachers. All 3 times, my wallet was returned to me with all contents intact. Conversely, I have found 3 wallets, all containing $50-$200. I returned them.
Recently, an armored truck driver failed to secure the back door while transporting a bank's deposits. A bag containing $20,000 in $20 bills fell out, busted open, and scattered in the wind on my town's main street.
Dozens of cars stopped to help round up the money. They recovered all but one $20 bill.
Chris. you have been misinformed. Australia did not get all of it's guns taken away, only automatic and semi automatic firearms were banned. You can own a handgun, but it can only be fired at a firing range/gun club and the gun must be kept under lock at the club, Anyone with a permit is allowed to own a rifle after getting a permit which takes about 30 days, it must be stored in a locked metal anchored container. Seems reasonable to me, when they are locked away it stops the little ones from accidentally shooting themselves and the banning of rapid fire rifles has stopped nutcases buying rifles that can kill multiple people in seconds. It takes the sport out of hunting if you use a machine gun isn't it?
Also, if someone gets shot over here it is big news, yes criminals do get hold of guns, but not as common as in your country as they are not as easily available to the public so they are harder to come by. If you own a gun here you are accountable for it. I have never shot a gun, I'm sure it would be fun having that feeling of power ,but I don't need it.
Quote from: sofadoc on September 04, 2011, 12:15:22 pm
Gene's pic reminded me of a front yard sign in my town. The house is surrounded by barbed wire with a sign that says the property is protected by ex-Marines. The sign says "YOU WILL BE CHALLENGED--YOU WILL BE STOPPED!!
The owner of the house is this guy:
http://www.upi.com/topic/Donald_Lee/
He drives an old Trans Am that's covered bumper to bumper with stickers and decals. The car has a megahorn mounted on top. If you get in his way, he will let you know it.
He married Susan Atkins (Charles Manson's gang) back in the 70's.
Isn't this guy gonna be running for President of your great nation.
Quote from: jojo on September 04, 2011, 01:39:48 pm
Man, I wanna be the rootin'est tootin'est upholsterer; I'm getting myself a bazooka. Other than mandatory m-16 rifle experience in Air Force basic training, I've never touched a gun before or since then.
Peppy, I don't lock my door either, nor do any of my neighbors. The day I have to, I'll move.
Mike, are you saying that a six pack is not worth breakin into a boat for?? :o
I don't need to lock my door either, Last year the head cop in our town went away for a months holiday and left the front door open, only found out when they got home :)
Another one who refuses to live in a "lock down". If someone wants to take my stuff they clearly need it more than I do. No one in this household owns a gun or has any interest in owning one. Guns in homes increase the likelihood of gun violence. This summer there were a couple of high profile shootings in my state... both were cases of domestic violence where the woman was murdered by her spouse. One was in front of the kids, the other resulted in the kids being murdered, too.
A gun, a pissed off spouse, add some alcohol and/or drugs and you have a recipe for disaster.
O. K. here goes this is the point where I open my mouth and insert foot creating major stereotype of myself. As a reply to the first post, The guy is just looking out for the criminal, he doesn't want to shoot the robber he's just giving good advice ;)
I could write a book on my opinions about gun advocates and anti gun ah,ah, ah, ah..... people. No I don't disrespect anyones op. about gun ownership but I sure as heck don't understand why anyone would be against owning a gun, simply because, where i grew up having a gun was (is) like putting on your pants, you just did and it was/is what you did when you were a kid. Getting that first bb gun and proving that you were as good as your old man(hitting target) that was like the first right of passage to manhood on a very small scale at that age but a big deal nonetheless. My father was raised without a dad,from the age of 11 and being the oldest boy of 5 kids in a family of sharecroppers his siblings looked to him to put meat on the table. Maybe my dad valued the ability to hunt and handle a gun more than some and instilled that to me? Don't know if I'm sounding weird to some but I still hunt and fish and I can/will survive if the time comes that you can't buy food. With all that said, I look at personal preservation the same as personal protection, I live in a small town( rapidly growing) that everyone knew each other and in the last twenty years you do good to see someone that you know out nowadays. I hate it because there are so many misfits and transplants that just don't value a good sit on the porch glass of sweet tea, they come from a different time and a diff. lifestyle. Then throw the drug culture in the mix and I get real concerned with safety for my family. I for one support gun ownership and always will, I also believe an unarmed society can very easily become a victim, And an unarmed country can as well become a victim of it's govt. or another govt. for that matter. Sorry to bore you guys but I just couldn't turn away without saying that piece...... Mike
Wow. Awesome comments. It's interesting to read such different perspectives on this topic.
When I posted the picture I just thought it was a funny picture. I didn't intend for it to generate comments, but that's OK. As I said, it is a big issue in our country and around the world.
I believe Texas is the only state where you can use deadly force to protect your property. All other states it is illegal to do so. You can only use deadly force to protect your life.
Here in Ohio, you can use deadly force if there are 3 conditions:
1. Your life must be in danger.
2. You are not able to run away.
3. You did not start the situation or have a part in starting the situation.
One thing that I find absolutely absurd is NEW gun laws. Criminals have guns because they are criminals. That is what they do. Criminals do not obey the laws we currently have and to expect that they will obey new laws is absolutely absurd. NEW gun laws, like most new laws, only control the behavior of law abiding citizens.
Most police officers who work the streets want conceal and carry laws. They want responsible citizens to be armed. It is the administrator/politician police, such as chiefs, who speak out against it.
I saw on a show about Alaska police where one police officer said, "We know that everyone here has a gun. We want them to know that we know they have a gun. And we want them to not make any moves toward their gun."
Columbine, Virginia Tech are 'gun free' zones. Would less people have died if citizens or off duty police officers had their guns with them? There's a lot of controversy about this issue.
I do not own a gun. I do not need one for protection or collection, and I do not have any interest in hunting or target range shooting. I also do not care if others have guns for protection, collection, hunting, or target range shooting.
There is a big police shooting range right beside my shop. Guns are being fired there all the time - sometimes in the middle of the night. I tell people that that is my security system. I also point out that they are practicing killing people. That's a sobering and sad thought!
A friend who is a retired police office said a few years ago a company from the Ukraine made sub machine guns and they were trying to sell them to police agencies. He got to shoot them at this firing range. He said it was 'massive fire power".
gene
Quote from: gene on September 03, 2011, 03:08:46 pm
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I think it's obvious the guy got into an argument about gun control with his neighbor. It's a funny sign but it's sad that neighbors can't get along.
You know, Kody, I am an avid gardener and am a member of several garden forums. I'm always stunned by the number of "issues" between neighbors and the number of fences that are erected because of them.
It's really sad and (to me) speaks to a loss of ability to speak to and with each other cordially and arrive at "common ground" so we're able to get along. I grew up in a "neighborhood", later we moved to a teeny town in the boonies. I knew all our neighbors and later most of the people in town. In all my years on this planet I've always made it my business to meet my neighbors and know their names. I was welcomed to my present home by guy who lived next door and happened to wander past my living room window (this is a pretty rural area). None of the other neighbors bothered to come over and introduce themselves! But I went over to their homes and introduced myself and over the years we've become good friends and trust each other enough that when we need something we aren't afraid to ask. A friend of mine who was a state trooper once told me that crime in "neighborhoods" generally involves those who are "strangers"... . I've never forgotten that.
I was in England visiting my best friend a few weeks ago. She was surprised at how readily I would speak with complete strangers. And she was even more surprised when I told her I view the world as full of friends I've not yet had the pleasure of meeting! If the 2 of went into a diner alone she'd head for a booth. I'd go right to the counter and sit next to someone. The charming guy in the post office recognized me the 2nd. time I went in and I had a great train ride into London chatting with a guy whose heavy Yorkshire accent left me asking him to repeat himself... he was a blast and we laughed and laughed at how one language could sound so different. One less stranger in the world! :)
It is interesting to hear the working persons opinion on this subject, glad to hear your all not living in the United State of paranoia :D. Which one do think will invade first , Mexico or Canada, or are there reds still under your bed!!! :o I'm a bit like you Bobbin , always up for a chat, I live in a tourist/fishing town and walk into town every morning with the dog to get the paper, whenever I see anyone I greet them good morning, most of the tourists just about fall over, some manage smile. You must be a hard core chatter to if you got someone going on a train in England, maybe it's a bit easier out in the country, try it on the tube in London, it could law on the tube not to speak I'm not sure. There is nothing I like more than starting up a conversation in the confines of an elevator, you have limited time in an uncomfortable environment (for most people) to get a smile out of them. I will be more careful when I visit the U.S. from now on, I think I was pretty safe in Hawaii as everyone I accosted in the hotel elevator was usually dressed for the beach and not packing, if ever I visit Texas I will use the stairs. :)
Lol, Scotty. In New England people have a reputation for being a bit stand-offish, chilly, and very reserved. But I'm native to the area and I can't say that that perception is anywhere near close to accurate; it's just that the sense of humor is very dry and deadpan. I walk through life with a ready smile and pleasant comment about something... anything. Maybe I like your shirt, maybe I'd like to meet your dog... I find that eye contact and a ready smile is the best ice breaker in the world. I didn't have any trouble in Paris, either! My halting, broken French didn't seem to matter (and even if it did the odds were I'd never meet the person again, anyway, so I was game to try!).
My big break through came when a very dear friend from Ecuador pointedly asked me if I thought someone who spoke halting English was "stupid" (she spoke 5 languages). NO. I assume they are really smart because they know another language and are willing to use it even when it's hard... DUH... that works both ways. The milk of human kindness is a universal tonic, dispense it readily and receive it in kind!
My next door neighbor is one of my best friends. He watches our dogs when we go away and I watches his horses when he go's.
My wife and I do a 3 mile walk every morning rain or shine great way to meet people and we have met almost everyone in our 40 home neighborhood. Great group of people from all walks of life and from all parts of the nation and world.
The neighbor across the street thinks the whole world is against him. Hes divorced and has few friends but when I see him I smile, wave and stop and chat. When ever he starts on one of his triads I say yes but isn't it a beautiful day or doesn't the air smell fresh today. I'm sure he thinks I'm whacked but it makes him stop and think.
But I bet he never wastes a moment's thought on why he's alone and unhappy. NOPE! because it's all about what everyone else has done to HIM.
Life is the most honest mirror we'll ever encounter. You see reflected back to you precisely what you project to the world around you. That's why I try very hard to smile and be cordial to all those friends I've not yet formally met!
This topic has been interesting. Gun ownership can be a very volatile subject on any discussion board.
Just to re-state, I don't personally feel the need to own a gun, but I respect the rights of those who do.
Quote from: bobbin on September 05, 2011, 02:31:16 pm
I didn't have any trouble in Paris, either!
Everyone warned me about how rude, and downright snooty Parisiens could be. I never got that feeling when I visited there. I think some people only see the world as the world sees them.
BTW, I talked to strangers on the subway in London, Paris, Lucerne, and Frankfort.
The day I finally "got over it" and decided to go for it with my less than terrific French occured riding a bus. I was seated next to a woman with a cat in carrying case. I love cats and couldn't contain my curiousity. I haltingly asked about the cat... who was 17 yrs. old and returning from a trip to the vet.. We talked about our cats for some time before she asked me if I was English. "No", I replied, "I'm American". "That can't be so!" she said in French, "you're far too polite to be an American." It took my brain a bit of time to figure out what she's said and then I smiled at her and laughed. She winked back at me.
Wherever I go in this world I honestly believe that genuine warmth and a good sense of humor will open all doors! Sofa., if you ever happen up my way I sure hope you'll let me know! :)
I had a very different experience in France, I did find them a snooty catching the train, my wife was trying to communicate using her high school french while buying a ticket on the fast train out of Paris, but she was not getting anywhere, so she asked if he spoke English, yes he said as he rolled his eyes and did his best to make my wife feel small and reinforce a stereotype. Years later while spending a bit of time with a French man surfing in Indonesia, he pointed out that if he worked for the railways he was a public servant, he then asked what Australian public servant were like at public relations. Point taken, LOL
My specialty language on our travels was Spanish, I would just talk like an Italian speaking English ,add an "O" or an "IE" onto a descriptive word and gesture enthusiastically with my hands, I really wish I had the education to learn a second language, there were so many times in Mexico when we met some really nice people but could not communicate past the very basics.
Nope! the French were universally gracious and helpful But , again, I'm that way in my own country and am cordial and generous wherever I go, so it's not surprising that my experiences have been universally terrific. :)
Life is a mirror! You see that which you project. Spin me around, put me on a plane, and I'll make friends wherever I debark. I only wish I could afford to travel more than I'm able!
While bartering with a sidewalk artist in Paris, I summoned from my archives all the high school French I could remember. In retrospect, I think I may have called his mother a pipewrench, or something. ;D Our negotiations didn't go too well until I gave up, and reverted back to English.
It's funny how they can be speaking another language to someone else, turn and take ONE look at ME, and say "May I help you?"
It's like I have "American" stamped on my forehead.
When they come here, they'd better damn well speak English. ;)
When we go there, they'd better damn well speak English. ;)
I've got a vietnamme guy next to me I was talking with a (American guy} across the way one day he said he did t know what there saying having a outdoor Party can get a bit loud somtimes Me kinda annoys me not knowing what there saying. It seems when kids show up they speak English. There a grandma who o ly can say hi
I have been fortunate to have traveled the world. I have found that many of the people in other countries when engaged in small talk enjoy a good conversation. For the most part the people in Australia I consider to be very much like our Southern folk. Very friendly, hospitable and caring but they typically have to be engaged first in conversation. I completely enjoy every trip I make to Australia and love the people and their culture. I would have immigrated there if their laws were not so tough. Unlike the USA where anyone can walk in and live, Australia has some of the toughest immigration laws in the world.
I have traveled Europe extensively and found the Dutch to be the most friendly and hospitable group. These people will feed you, provide you a bed and do anything for you. They are a very warm group of people. They love company and love to chat it up which is why they always open their doors to others. My wife's parents are from Holland and my wife speaks fluent Dutch so I always had an interpretator by my side. :)
While in Germany I found they have a dislike for Americans in certain parts of the country. I had shop owners turn and walk away from me and refuse to help me. But my wife could walk up to them and speak to them in German and they would help her. :) As soon as they heard my Yankee accent, they would wave their hands and with a terse look on their face walk away. Of course this was all during the Iraq war and we were not well thought of in Europe at the time.
My wife knows enough French to get by with and I found the French people very nice. But we traveled in the countryside and most French attitudes you will find only in Paris. We stopped at a large home improvement store ( French Home Depot ) and I was intrigued by their kitchen cabinetry. A sales person came over and spent half an hour with me explaining everything to me ( construction, wood, etc. ). He was awesome and alot of fun.
England, Scotland, Luxembourg, France, Belgium, Holland, Australia, New Zeeland, Mexico, I can honestly say I have never been treated badly by any of the locals. Germany is another matter. I love traveling because I love experiencing the different cultures. I always thought America was the Cat's meow and everything we did was right. But after my travels I have found that a few things we do is ass backwards. There are some awesome ideas out there in other countries that would work excellent here.
Chris
Mike:
Some of the greatest people you will ever meet are Asians. Very polite, respectable and hard working.
I was stationed at MCRD while in marine Corps boot camp. While there Saigon fell. When I was transferred up to Camp Pendelton we were met by 50,000 Vietnamese refuges. These people were so grateful to be in our country that everytime I was out on the base they would come up to us and shake our hands, bow and say thank you Joe. I had one old man come up to me and bow numerous times and say thank you then handed me a $ 500 South Vietnamese bill. Obviously it was worth nothing, but it was the gift from this man that made it worth thousands to me. I still have that bill. :)
You will find that the Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese and other Asian people are very honorable and respectable people. They are hard working and one of of our greatest immigrants to this country. They ask for nothing, never bitch and go about life never hurting or bothering others.
I have on my bucket list to travel Asia and do missionary work. Not from a religious standpoint but from a humanitarian standpoint.
Chris
Re sign. I reckon the guy's sign is a bit out there, kinda "my way or the highway" genre.
He's probably a lawyer. A good lawyer is a bad neighbour.
In any event, his gun's ensure that he is garde mobile (Fr.), a guard liable to general service.
Moreover, noblesse oblige(Fr.), rank imposes obligations.
So, sue him for undue care.
Yeah, in oz we have heaps of Asians. They are ok. Heaps more want to come on humanitarian laws as refugees or they arrive illegally in boats. We have the highest density of Islamic peoples in the world being on our doorstep, that is, in Indonesia. There's more Indonesian millionares then Australians. Muslims are ok to me. Extremist's aren't. The extremists are in all cultures and religions. Just look at Ireland, say.
The Australian National University predicts that within fifty years the population of this country will be approx 90 - 95 per Asian or Eurasian. My old man used to work in intelligence and always reckoned that that mankind will all end up with a yellow tinge. Hey we all bleed the same colour. The government here has sold off about 80% + of our minerals to offshore investors. The immigrants better hurry up before there is nothing left but broken sewing machines! On the news recently they say there are over thirty thousand immigrants working for four dollars an hour in Queensland (that's east coast oz) in sewing sweat shops in people's home garages..
Chris, of course we aren't going to let you into into our fair country easily, we don't need anymore upholsterer's in the country. Hey Needles don't you worry about those poor Asians in the sweat shops, they are just working there butt off to put the 1 or 2 kids that they have through school to become a doctor or an engineer, there not feeling sorry for themselves just like the Europeans before them. Australia being surrounded by sea and with tough immigration we only get the most desperate of refugees coming by boat (criminals would not risk there life) and 99% are legitimate. I am glad we don't have borders with other country's like you guy's do but happy to be more a part of Australasia.