hiya
I have this Sealine 310 to do on monday, I've decided on
my plan of action but wanted to pass it by you guys.
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the front cover i'm going to raise the bow because the headheight inside is silly
and make the window the same angle as the front screen, I want to make the
whole screen removeable can i just pattern this like a reverse convertible top ?
and the back will be a convertible top off the arch, i'm going to make
a new 2 bow frame as he wants the aft curtain more vertical so the top
needs to be longer. i'm thinking
the big curve around the back of the seats my cause me a problem though ??
or am i imagining it. ?
I was thinking the side curtain to aft curtain zipper needs to be right round the
side of the boat at the start of the curve otherwise it will be at a crazy angle
to reach the end of the rain flap where the curtains intersect. ?
notice the amount of boats with pram hoods Peppy :-)
What do you meen Rich is the front top silly high? Of low o the feat top and frame I think a cantslevrr top like peppy like would be cool if the top is t going to be rolled up.
I'd make thentear panel meet the side panel on the side also and as far as the curved stern I don't see a big problem for you straigght is easier but insee many curved sterns with no trouble
the front top is silly low at the moment Mike and the
pvc screen is tiny.
I want to lift the bow up to make the screen wider
and the head height taller.
I've just been thinking about it , patterning it like a
convertible top won't quite work? it needs to be like
one of those brow covers that comes off the rear of an
arch, but on the front. ?
does that ring any bells ?
rich
You brits make some funny looking tops! ;) Although every marina has it's own look, why should countries be any different?
If given free reign I'd totally make a shwang out (or cantilevered if you like Mike) top off the back. Use his current deck mount for the tention bar and come off the arch with the main bar. Photobucket won't let me draw on your picture but it'd be like this-
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1020.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf328%2Fpeppypower%2FBoats%2Fth_P4150024.jpg&hash=ef9cd6024313f61b00b7a116b86327f5) (http://s1020.photobucket.com/albums/af328/peppypower/Boats/?action=view¤t=P4150024.jpg)
And I'd do awning rail on the arch. And probably less canvas more window. Although I do like the PDQ style windows. And get rid of the tension piece on the back corner. I hate those. And a strap in the center back? Come now. But I will say that baby blue binding is kick ass. Set that off with pink snaps.
You think you'll be able to just raise the front bar? Can't tell from the picture but I'd guess you'd need a new one?
The curved back won't be a problem.
QuoteI've just been thinking about it , patterning it like a
convertible top won't quite work? it needs to be like
one of those brow covers that comes off the rear of an
arch, but on the front.
I don't follow you....
Can't really see the side of the front top how the frame is.
Most exress I've seen have the front frame mount on the window frame and a spreader bar to bold it up then the rear top is as you say like this
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/Express%20cruiser%20enclosures/34SEARAY.jpg
it looks as if the front top angles down so there is room to play raising the front of it without making it taller then the arch the rear top as you say a brow is the one in my pix what you meen?
That's what I meant only being farther out tonthebrear so thebaft panel would be more verticle I would call that a canitelar top. Peppy calls it swanved. I'd make a horizontal. Frame come off the arch with a support angles off the arch sonit would all be open space when thebpanels are off like a brow only sticking out farther to the rear.
that brow pic is what i was thinking Mike, but turning it around and mounting it
on the front of the arch ?
some inside pics of one of those would be good if anyone has any ?
And i'd love to make a cantilever top but i've never made one, they do look nice.
i did think awning rail but the arch edges are pretty curved so not sure about
doing that as i've only done little rail jobs, nothing this size. i'd probably
mess the patterning up.
It seems again this year i get all the jobs i've not done before hehe I guess there
comes a point when ive done em all hehe then something new will come along
the canvas on the boat is OEM and the binding peppy is a horrible green that
sealine use, made from vinyl so looks like poo after a year or two in the sun
Oh, bRow! I thought that was a typo for bow! Ya on the front I would totally change it up. If it has splitter bars now off the arch I'd use those fittings to mount the arch and the fittings on the window to mount the tention bars. Not sure if it really matters but I'd rather 'pull' than 'push'.
What do you mean you'd pattern it differently? A top's a top's a top, no?
Horrible green? It's awesome! It's the accent on the Filthy Oar!
Rich I don't k ow yours boat measurments but on the s/r I showed the front top is mounted on the widow with spreader/ push var for tention off the arch I like pushing as there is no obstuction in the way of open space like a strap or strut. The vow could have come off the arch with aeg to pull the top toligbt comming down to the window Id make my crown crown up if the frame was off the arch.
I don't see any advatage on the sea Ray pic if it was that way.
if you fitted a keder track Mike would you make the top first and fit it
before patterning the window or would you pattern it in one go ?
Rich
I pattern them I. One go Rich. Mark the slot for the kedar and do all as any other topSome dot will just be on the arch
I'm with peppy on the back. That way the frame can follow the curve of the
transom.
The front is going to be your problem. If you raise it higher the bimini will be
above the arch. That frame needs to go. You need to create one that matches
the contour of the arch better. You're not going to get it much higher without
it looking funny but if you move it further forward you will get a better angle off
the windshield.
This has always been a problem with this style boat. They have a mid cabin which
creates a stepup at the helm. Which in turn reduces the headroom. SeaRay fixed
the problem by making the arch sky high. Fine for the helm but to tall for anywhere
else in the cockpit.
This drawing shows the difference. Top image is with an extended top but same
height. Second image shows how a raised top would look.
(https://sn2files.storage.live.com/y1pbbNP7ajiGyXbMbBNmSs-itl8O4HQMOm_VUP6hxRrnrVnkczn37yiq5pIHiSgrtDtTReRDCDbuA_Qcdtc48f4Pg/sealine.bmp?psid=1)
hiya
i have looked at the pitch of the front cover but the customer
is over 6ft tall so it really has to be raised higher than the arch.
As the aft cover tips to the stern so much i can raise that too
and try to blend the two covers together to make one gentle drop
to the stern.
I was kicking back yesterday so took the boat out on the river and
took the opportunity to check out some boats in the marina.
this is the same make and the screen is more curved on the one i'm doing.
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Same make is irrelevant. That second boat has a totally different windshield/arch
profile.
If you make the the bimini follow the line of the pram, as you call it, you will be
creating a parachute with the forward windscreen off.
Sometimes you just have to tell the customer certain things don't work on certain
boats. My number one policy is to be honest and direct with a customer. Saves you
headaches and saves them disappoint when they realize they spent a lot of money
for something they doesn't look very nice or function properly.
Rich doese the front top angle down from the arch ?
If so is the arch tall enough for the owner? You could raise the top mayby slightly taller
i didnt think about scooping up the air good point.
does it really make a problem if the front cover opening is
higher than the arch ?
Well if the top was taller then the archthe you would need to fi down to it.
I once. Did a cruiser Inc. 80s era it ha a mid cabin so the helm was raised and the oem top swastika a sport top snapped on the window and with bows went up and snappd to the arch. The ow er wanted a taller top so I made a normal Bimini I don recall if the main bow was mounted off the arch or the window frame. (long tome ago). But it was a 3 bow bimni and the rear bow gear the arch was probly at least a foot. Above the arch. I made a rear window from the top down to the arch. As. Have done many now only down to a rear hardtop like the white silverton I did not long ago.
Thenrear camper top came off the arch to the seen the hight there was ok. This was kind neat as you could look out back over tue arch and rear top from a standing position. Of course dockng you would need to look under the arch to see the dock backing stern in
Maybe some pics will help you out. Most of these come from rightboat.com
http://www.rightboat.com/
1994 360 Ambassador
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1990 365
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.croatia-broker.com%2Fcomponents%2Fcom_virtuemart%2Fshop_image%2Fproduct%2F668b165fe6ffc91e0906c4052ee7209c.jpg&hash=e72e944c6d85acba28989bbc2b21372c)
2007 S34
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyacht-photos.rightboat.com%2Fboat-images%2F12121254%2Fsealine-s34-0a34f2.jpg&hash=57dc0bd8a8d1773da50338ab16765c90)
1988 285 Ambassador
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyacht-photos.rightboat.com%2Fboat-images%2F12107083%2Fsealine-285-ambassador-467dcc.jpg&hash=4e8187c3f2642d9f1f92cbadc8bc2bdc)
1994 310 Ambassador
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyacht-photos.rightboat.com%2Fboat-images%2F12121279%2Fsealine-310-ambassador-4c872a.jpg&hash=7385017b4fc2e8a9fb98437199622562)
hiya
many thanks for your input, that last pic is the one .
the bow on the front cover is higher than the arch and the back cover
drops at the same angle, thats just what i was thinking.
it's a pity the pic isn't higer res, thats the same boat as my customers too,
i was getting worried but after seeing that one i'm sure it'll be fine.
now all i need is a crash course in track installs and i'm set heheheh
thanks for that
The track is easy rich there is a tape that will hold it on till you screw it they have small screws that go intothe slot in the track some are Phillips others are a square hex head
Hold it in place and mark where you need to cut I start at the top sticking it on then at the bends a heat fun will help I'd needed screw every 6" or so then get to the bend bend it and put a screw in. Repeat till done. On the screws use pressure o. The head so the tip dosent strip I. The head if it dose the screw will stick up a tad a d the kedar will not pass it
Caulking on the track is a good idea after install
Here's another one that shows the headroom problem
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyacht-photos.rightboat.com%2Fboat-images%2F12175640%2Fsealine-310-153789.jpg&hash=a6d5acfc92d4c8b9906c44e7e6a7c719)
Direct link to page
http://www.rightboat.com/Sealine-310/boat-12175640/
Use Costa track instead of Flexirail if you can get it. The recess for the screws is deeper
and the welt won't catch on the screw heads. You can also use regular #6 countersunk
flat head screws instead of the special #6 screw with a #4 square recess head that is a
must with the Flexirail. Costa is thicker and made of a softer vinyl. Almost every boat I see
with Flexirail older than 5 years has pieces broken off the track.
Important!! Determine if the arch is fiberglass, aluminum or fiberglass with aluminum
pipe wire chases. If fiberglass then sheet metal screws will work fine. If it's either of the
latter with aluminum then it's best to use machine screws and drill and tap. Also, you must
tell your customer you are not responsible for any damage to wiring in the arch. You're
working blind here and it's impossible to tell where all the wiring is. You're probably going
to drill 30 to 40 holes on each side of the arch. 6" apart is fine for across the top and down
the legs but you will need to add a few more at each corner to maintain the curve.
Putting this track on can be time consuming. I took Flexirail off the arch of a 42' Regal and
replaced it with Costa Track. Stripping off was a bear because of the foam tape Mike mentioned
before. Luckily I lined up most of the existing holes. If you drill and tap you will have the better
part of an 8 hour day installing the track. Longer if you're new to the application.
Having to heat it is dependant on the outside temperature and the radius of corners. The Regal
I just mentioned went around the corners with no problem in 55 F weather. Didn't add any heat.
thanks guys , the only problem i can see with installing track
is the arch is so rounded at the edges which could make life difficult
.screws shouldn't be a problem i have some that self tap but if you drive
them too hard the heads occasionally come off .
that pic is spot on thanks, and in their ad i'm pretty sure the front cover
has been raised as his screen looks much wider than the one i'm doing.
looking around i think the front is going to be made like a California
dodger, splitting the front panel with zippers
this is pretty much exactly what i had in mind
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_4e071085.jpg&hash=24c739dce0f480eeab16568d4d025d18) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/4e071085.jpg)(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_350ashore_002.jpg&hash=7be5b8aa48c95edf4975049669f7f1c7) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/350ashore_002.jpg)(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_DSCN8481_000.jpg&hash=8db31626a557e4864a02d906f1806f0b) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/DSCN8481_000.jpg)(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_sealine-ambassador-310-6b8bfa.jpg&hash=c290983f732473b3140b424bb0bf5ad6) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/sealine-ambassador-310-6b8bfa.jpg)
On a roundy arch I run a line of tape on the arch so you can get a good eyeball on the line then but the track up to one edge. I hate screwing it into aluminum arches. Like DBR says, it takes life times. I rivet them on now. I ground down a rivet gun nipple so it can stick into the track. Then I put my 1/8" drill bit in my drill sticking out a 1/2" from the chuck. I drill through the track, and the arch at once then when I'm through the arch I keep pushing and the chuck cuts a hole in the top of the track to let the rivet head through. Then I caulk the back and rivet it on.
I always use heat to bend it, and find it really helps to have a compressor handy to cool it down quick. I like using the 'p' kind on the inside at the back. I like the sounds of the tape. What's that about?
I've never used costa track only flexirail. And sear rays mostly they used to just have the track with a flap and zipper to zip the top to. I supose the sun got to the track and all the tention was on the zipper after a while they starter snapping also there was the track on the back edge of the arch sipped to the top (no flap now ) and the top snap to the top of the aech ad the old way the snaps took tention off thenzippers and thread. Thebcanvas now covers the track and thebtrack makes a good weatherproofing
no snaps
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/Express%20cruiser%20enclosures/34SEARAY.jpg
snaps
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/Express%20cruiser%20enclosures/100_0902.jpg
me the track alone looks sleek and trim but I like thebsnaps look better stronger then a zip to me
and yes I've seen the track flexitrac break I didn't know it was widespread. I seen it motly alter a hurricane and just thought it was a resullt.
Mike, you should try Costa Track. Much better than Flexirail.
Fragged, the Costa track comes flat backed and with a concave back.
The concave back works better to fit on rounded edge arches.
Peppy's tip of using tape to mark off the install line is a good one.
i love the look of the sundancer Mike it's really tidy.
this is the one i have in stock Flexarail. we are very limited in
the products we can get here compared to you guys.
I cant even buy colour matched tabling here :-(
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i like the tape idea i'll have to try that if i go ahead with the track,
i'm still in two minds about doing it and the customer just said
if you want to try it just go ahead :-0.
I guess i have to take the plunge sometime .
when you pattern it do you mark the high point on the side of the
track or the edge of the opening ?
the only time i've used it i put the keder strip in and pinned the fabric to
it to pattern.
Rich what is colur matched tabling?
Patterning. With the track l. The forward edge od the arch with the slot opening on the horizontal side I put trancer/ seam tape on the top edge ot the track And pull my pattern from tue front bow to the track sticking it to the tape also I almost alway slide I. Some kedar as you and then mark my dots and on the arch I Marduk the position of the kedar along with marking and edge where I want to cut my material at the track.
Ehat is normally done here is a flap and zipper is I serted on the tr k and the top is ziper to it
It sound tricky. But from the pattern I will figure for my flap and zipper
you could sew a zipper onto the kedar and pattern to the zipper then remove the kedar and zipper and sew a canvas flap onto it You can get the curved shape fit the flap but you would need to pattern the curve
The flap will need Velcro to gold it down to the top with Velcro on it also.
This should be able to be seen on the tan sea Ray canvas
my local sea Ray dealor moved out so I havnt done one of theese for a while now
Sounds similar to how I do it Mike. I trace the closest track edge to the top, then Minus 1/4" to allow a little gap between the kedar and the bound fabric.
We've been doing the kedar/zipper->top with the top snaping over the track to the arch like searay does on the fronts for a while now. Works well but a pain in the ass if you ask me. On the backs we do kedar/flap/zipper->top with no snaps. It's all about water runoff. Some of the new backward arches make it really tricky. RunOFF becomes runIN on the sides. Awning rail has replaced downriggers as the main source of headaches in the last couple of years.
Quote from: Mike8560 on June 27, 2011, 09:12:44 pm
Rich what is colur matched tabling?
i mean the reinforcement you guys can get made from the same material
as the top. I've never seen it here.
Oh facing. I know of one myself Tri vantage. Therefore I make my own
it is nice to have it on a roll