A little off topic here...
Our high school band received a generous anonymous donation, and I suggested using some of it to purchase a hot knife. This would allow us to produce more professional-looking color guard flags than we have made previously.
I have never used a hot knife, and since I opened my big mouth... researching hot knives and learning how to use one is now MY job. HELP!
Fabric is "China Silk" (lightweight poly flag material, basically garment lining fabric). Would we want this kind of knife, with a rod instead of a blade?
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shop.craftershotknife.com%2Fimages%2F1371260002572-1016710278.jpeg&hash=e65e23189a66068310f2d3998ffa7bab)
What do you use for a cutting surface? Would a blade cut/melt cleanly through such thin fabric, or would the fabric bunch up in front of the blade? Is it safe or wise to cut through several layers at once?
Trying to imagine every possible issue, but I don't even know what I don't know, so... ?
EDIT: I originally said "nylon" -- fabric is actually POLYESTER.
I have, use, and love an Engel hot knife. Mine has the foot guard on it and I leave it in place when cutting. I use it all the time on acrylics (marine and awning weight, also upholstery weight). I have used it cut polyester fabrics of similar weight. I think the Engel might be too much for banner weight nylon, though (and they're expensive).
If you are willing to work on a metal surface I bet you could use one of the cheaper hot blades sailmakers use. The Hot Tool Knife in the Bainbridge catalogue is about $65 and I've used them before; mostly to clean up threads and cut webbings/bindings/etc., and they work well. Ungar also makes one that's probably nicer (looks to be about $80 at Bainbridge), but I've never used one. Neither of these have a switch that allows you to control the heat, so you have to pay attention and you have to have a safe way to set it aside as you move the fabric around!
Fantastic information... thanks so much! I will definitely explore the knives you mentioned.
Quote from: bobbinNeither of these have a switch that allows you to control the heat, so you have to pay attention and you have to have a safe way to set it aside as you move the fabric around!
Are you saying neither has a thermostat?
Fabric used for color guard flags is actually lighter than banner weight nylon. Lame' is often used as an accent color -- that's how light it is.
I just found the hot knife of my dreams... *sigh* It's cutting what appears to be a very lightweight material here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4kJMG0BxOQ
I will call Engel (http://www.hsgmusa.com/) tomorrow for more information on the blade. Maybe we can use it on a cheaper hand-held unit.
Edited to add... sadly, the "delicate materials" blade in the video is not interchangeable with any other unit and is way out of our price range (http://www.hsgmusa.com/Products/hsg-mk-heat-cutter.asp).
Maybe a thermostat controlled soldering iron will work?
Allan
Quote from: Allan on July 17, 2013, 02:45:13 pm
Maybe a thermostat controlled soldering iron will work?
Thank you, Allan -- good idea. I will explore that as well!
I can't speak to whether or not the Ungar or the Hot Tool have thermostats; probably they do but there is no switching mechanism to turn the heat on or off. In the case of those knives they're likely always "on" and the top end of temperature is the shut off point.
I like what I see on the linked promotional video. But Engel is not likely to make that tip compatible with anything other than an Engel product. I only hope it's compatible with the base of the hot knife I presently own!
You might want to check our Harbor freight if your looking for a cheapie hot knife. They sell one for around $ 20 and is used in crafts, etc. It will cut acrylic fabric but not very well. It works good on lighter materials though.
It has a blue handle and a long blade. Check that model out.
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on July 17, 2013, 07:23:45 pm
You might want to check our Harbor freight if your looking for a cheapie hot knife. They sell one for around $ 20 and is used in crafts, etc. It will cut acrylic fabric but not very well. It works good on lighter materials though.
It has a blue handle and a long blade. Check that model out.
Thanks, Chris -- I'll check it out!
Well... talked to Engel today! Very informative conversation. For $203.05 we can get a nice hand-held unit, a blade for curves, a blade for straight edges, plastic carrying case, and a brass wire brush. Not as nice as the table top unit in the video, but very serviceable.
Presenting Engel's advice, plus all the information offered here, to our band director today. Thanks so much!
Try cutting on a piece of glass. Works well for sailcloth and nylon spinnaker fabrics.
Quote from: gscmarine on July 21, 2013, 03:12:01 am
Try cutting on a piece of glass. Works well for sailcloth and nylon spinnaker fabrics.
Excellent advice! Engel also recommends cutting on glass. My only question is... where does one obtain a piece of glass big enough for a spinnaker, let alone a color guard flag? And where the heck do you store such a big piece of glass?
I just have a 3'x2' thick piece from an old glass desk. Just have to move it each time you need to move along the cut but no big deal. Check with a local glass and mirror shop for any old and or broken jobs, could pick something up for short money.
Quote from: gscmarine on July 21, 2013, 01:46:23 pmJust have to move it each time you need to move along the cut but no big deal.
Never actually thought of moving it around... I will definitely check with a few local shops for scraps -- thanks!
Update! Director left the decision up to me, and I chose the Engel. FANTASTIC customer service, by the way.
Here's the unit:
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsgmusa.com%2Fimages%2F%28H-100%29_HSG-0.jpg&hash=66099dced5b3a9313433b0fed61a55fb)
Here are the blades I ordered with it:
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsgmusa.com%2Fimages%2F%28H-200%29__HSO-N.jpg&hash=6ddaa35041485733519d52834c655921) (https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsgmusa.com%2Fimages%2F%28H-205%29__Type_R.jpg&hash=e8f0a4a41680a00e5c333e2b11442a1d)
The first blade is meant for curves, but the unit weighs two lbs and holding it with this blade is awkward. Second blade is for straight cuts -- seems to work okay, but I haven't yet tried it with a straight edge (should be fine). It can not be used upside-down because only the edge gets hot, not the point.
Ordered a couple of new blades to try for curves:
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsgmusa.com%2Fimages%2F%28H-250%29__Type_HG.jpg&hash=2908f8124b8ecf83772ed661898cd9ec) (https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsgmusa.com%2Fimages%2F%28H-255%29__Type_V.jpg&hash=e4da9e2be491dcb550c6fb2a291affac)
These are the "best" blades for curves that will fit in the hand-held unit, and the second one can be used upside-down if necessary. They should arrive this week.
We have a gorgeous piece of donated glass that was mis-cut for a coffee table. Score!
Really exciting! And full of great information, Dede.
I've only seen the first two feet available through Bainbridge (I have the straight version and the foot guard on my unit). But the other two are the ones that interest me most! can you cough up a vendor?
They're all from Engel (HSGM). You can buy direct from their warehouse in South Carolina: www.hsgmusa.com
Here's the German site: www.hsgm.com
Forgot to mention before... there's normally a small handling fee (around $5.00) with every order, but the Senior Vice President waived it "just this once" because he likes marching bands. :-)
On it, Dede! THANKS!
Update on the update!
New blades arrived. We put the glass on a table, and with the cutting surface raised like that... turns out that this blade:
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsgmusa.com%2Fimages%2F%2528H-200%2529__HSO-N.jpg&hash=6a56186f643a28d95314dea5bbeb6fbb)
...really does work the best for curves after all, at least with the hand-held unit. Of course, the BEST blade for fine fabric curves is only available with a $1,300.00 table top unit:
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hsgmusa.com%2Fimages%2FH120_HSG-MK-S1-2_opt.jpg&hash=002f39f0d3248b235930ca48b0fba3d6)
So pretty... but I think we'll be fine with what we have. We're making swing flags from this pattern:
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bandshoppe.com%2Fimages%2Fprd%2Fflags%2Ffl1043_mn.jpg&hash=5eea355abbd88161cb3437906f8e3282)
24 flags (two per girl) -- they look like this when in motion:
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marching.com%2Fspotlight%2Fhow-to-make-flags-and-influence-people%2Fswing-flag-pole.jpg&hash=c54a77d80964b71a204ef37b2dd13430)
Thanks, everyone! I started this project knowing very little about the process, and now I have enough confidence to start cutting. :-)
Love it when a plan comes together. Good luck and if you can make a video of one of their performances.
Chris
...and they're DONE! (https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetsmilies.com%2Fsmilies%2Fhappy%2Fhappy0035.gif&hash=f077f5ac00104d5714a0cdd75522691f)
Quote from: Mojo on August 08, 2013, 05:41:40 pmGood luck and if you can make a video of one of their performances.
Very first performance so still a little rough. Flags from about 5:30 to 7:10 --> watch to at least 6:10 to see full effect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-9hltIFKtI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-9hltIFKtI)
nice job dede I was a trumpet player in my high school band and marching band (Burlington mass) I remember many a freezing days in November trying to blow but my lips were to cold to play .
btw my gym teacher and the teams coach was a victim on a plane on 9/11
Nice job, Dede. I was going to go to the HS game last night, but it was cold, windy, and raining a downpour. Did enough of that as "pit crew and props band parent." Tonight would have been perfect.
I went to my granddaughter's school football game where they had "elementary student" night 2 weeks ago. The opposing team had about 18 band members and 6 auxiliary. They did the <stand and blow, move, repeat>. My granddaughter's school had over 250 in band and auxiliary, which is too many to do much maneuvering, as they spanned 20 to 20. Having been to state band competitions, DCI, and Bands of America Nationals, I know both small and large bands can have great programs if they have it together.
Of course, there's nothing like TBDBITL.
Those look great, Dede! what machine did you use to assemble them?
Great job DeDe. I was a drummer but never did march as our band was too small. Love the flag work and the flags. My daughter Natalia was a flute player in the band but was a flag girl in the marching band. ( They didn't have flute players in the marching band only picolo's I believe ).
Thanks for posting,
Chris
you know the bicentennial in mass 1976 was big with the marching band I think we had flute and piccolo's I was a called in over the summer for that on a volunteer deal I was 16
Many, many thanks for your kind words!
Quote from: Mike on September 21, 2013, 07:00:39 pmI was a trumpet player in my high school band and marching band (Burlington mass) I remember many a freezing days in November trying to blow but my lips were to cold to play.
Chelmsford (MA) High graduate here! I sang (badly) in chorus. Band required actual talent...
Quote from: byhammerandhand on September 21, 2013, 07:20:56 pmOf course, there's nothing like TBDBITL.
Wait... isn't that some tiny backwater college in Ohio?
Quote from: bobbin on September 22, 2013, 04:32:30 amwhat machine did you use to assemble them?
My portable Viking died as I was threading it. Ran to Neverett's in Nashua, NH, explained I needed a machine RIGHT NOW and they handed me a Janome (http://content.janome.com/index.cfm/Machines/Sewing-Quilting/DC2013) with an even feed foot. Worked really well. I do love a walking foot but my Juki 1541 would have eaten the silk. The even feed foot was perfectly acceptable for the job.
I ended up overlapping the seams 3/8" by eyeball with a 3-part zigzag, and did a 3/8" double-folded hem (also 3-part zig-zag, also by eyeball) -- no pins.
Hot knife worked well, although some moms felt more comfortable using it than others. We used a piece of plywood under the yardage and it worked fine (although a plywood Zamboni would have been nice toward the end). Apparently, some bands use wood burners. One advantage seems to be that you can cut directly around the poster board pattern, whereas we had to trace them first. I did try using my wood burner on some scraps, but it felt "skittery" after the Engel. I didn't try going around a cardboard pattern with it, so maybe that makes a difference.
Quote from: Mojo on September 22, 2013, 06:45:59 amMy daughter Natalia was a flute player in the band but was a flag girl in the marching band.
Did you get the "I do not twirl, I
spin" lecture, too?
Quote from: Dede on September 23, 2013, 07:35:36 pm
Quote from: Mike on September 21, 2013, 07:00:39 pmI was a trumpet player in my high school band and marching band (Burlington mass) I remember many a freezing days in November trying to blow but my lips were to cold to play.
Chelmsford (MA) High graduate here! I sang (badly) in chorus. Band required actual talent...
we played your school I was class of 78 maybe we were at a game together
Quote from: Mike on September 23, 2013, 08:44:17 pmwe played your school I was class of 78 maybe we were at a game together
It's possible! I would have been the freshman singing the CHS "Fight Song"
really off-key...
Oh that was you? ;)