My wife and I were talking over dinner the other night about our life and how it has taken so many twists and turns.........some of those changeds we never planned on. :)
The majority of you know that I was diagnosed with a Leukemia type disease and had to retire. This happened in 1999 when I was 41. I had no choice. My oncologist demanded I retire and the fact of the matter is they never expected me to live much past 45 ( I fooled their sorry butts ). In my previous life I was a marketing and Public Relations analyst and worked for a government owned corporation. I was extremely lucky and blessed that I had a pension along with lifelong benefits such as Blue Cross, Dental etc. Trust me when I say I know how lucky I am and I never take it for granted.
But it got me thinking, have any of you have prepared for retirement ? Do any of you have 401 K's or some other retirement vehicle besides Social Security ?
I was just wondering how self employed tradespeople such as ourselves plan for retirement and if you set aside funds for a retirement plan.
Chris
I'm 33 and started my retirement plan a couple years ago, so I feel I'm in good shape.
I take a little bite of cat food every day so that it's not such a shock when I retire.
I was into stocks, I found a real good plan that worked by watching trends, I mean trends that go back 15 years, not just 3 years like many use. I did well, started with a few hundred bucks and ended up with enough to buy a mid quality new car. Then the charts showed me it was time to bail and I did, just before the economy went to H$%. Lucky, yea real lucky, I ended up using that money to buy a kubota and started growing vegetables on a three acre plot thinking if things get real bad, I can sell, or triad food for necessities. What I have learned is I am a real poor farmer. I feel bad for people who think they can put aside some seeds and grow a survival garden if things get bad, it is a huge learning curve. My garden gets better every year, but the real problem is trying to run a business and grow a large garden. I am using organic methods and usually get to busy in the shop to keep ahead of the weeds, not to mention the abundant wild life that is thriving in my area. Its has been three years now and I still cant grow all my own vegetables, never mind having enough extra to sell. As far as retirement goes, I just don't see it happening for me, also many people who have saved all their life for a nice nest egg are going to see it disappear as the value of the dollar continues to drop. I see the dollar going the way of the peso in the not to distance future. I don't mean to be so pessimistic, I think things will get better, but first we have to get through the collapse of this corrupt cabal that has taken over our federal government and get back to sound constitutional money that is printed or minted buy our government, not a private central bank lent to us with interest.
I am a fortunate one too. I was employed by the state and when my job was terminated I took out my retirement for a shop investment. I know it sound like a stupid thing to do, but the fortunate part is my wife's grandfather owned property on Indian Rocks beach in Florida years ago and sold it to developers. he dispersed the money among grandkids in his will wich many blew through quick. My wife was a minor when he passed so it was set in a trust fund for her. Her brother who still lives in florida and a money manager set part of it up into an IRA for us after we were married 13 years ago. Each year we pull a set amount out of her trust and instead of cashing it in we roll it into our IRA. Sure we've taken hits on it and the trust, but it's already rebounded plus additional. Since we're still in our mid thirties we have plenty of time to ride it then be more conservative with the investments as we age.
kyle
Quote from: Ihavenoname on August 18, 2010, 09:42:58 am
And you wonder why I'm a communist.
Sometimes I think that the only reason we don't live in a communist society, is because we don't call it that.
Our government decides which companies to bail out, and which ones to cull from the herd.
As a kid, I used to ask my grandfather why we couldn't just print more money, then we would all have enough. He tried to explain to me why our money system doesm't work that way. Guess he was wrong.
Quote from: Ihavenoname on August 18, 2010, 09:42:58 am
No joke now, I'm planning to rob banks. That way I will either get the money if successful or go to prison and get free room and board if not.
All in all Win/win.
There's only one thing wrong with that plan. You'll need a big supply of Preparation H.
As for retirement, like a lot of small businesses, I bring home the bacon, my wife's job takes care of insurance, savings, 401K,etc.
As long as she doesn't dump me, I'll be OK.
There is an story about twin brothers, say Fred and Ted.
Fred started a job right out of high school and maxed out his IRA for 10 years. At that point, married with family and house, and he stopped contributing, but let the balance invested.
Ted went to college, then to med school, and at age 28 became a Dr. and could finally fund his IRA. So he maxed his out every year from there on.
Upon retirement both Fred and Ted had the same balance.
Compound interest, the eighth wonder of the world - Albert Einstein
Yes this country is fascist. When the gov. and corporations work together to make profits privet, but the looses public this is fascism. Does the word bailout ring any bells? The trouble is, the way our monetary system works has been keep a dark secret since 1913. No body really new how it worked because we were all lied to in school. How many people today still believe the Federal Reserve is a government department? Many, but less do now because of the internet. The Fed is no more federal then Federal Express. It is a private bank owned by its board of directors, this bank lends our government money at interest, money that it creates out of thin air, money that we must pay back with our labor.
I will explain it in a real simple way. Lets say our gov needs 100 bucks, it goes to the fed and asks for 100 bucks. The fed says ok, but it will cost you 10% payable in one year. Our gov thinks this is a good deal so it says ok. Well, one year passes and the gov returns to the fed and says we were able to get the 100 bucks back, but we do not have the extra 10%, or the extra 10 bucks. The fed says that's ok we know you are good for it, lets say we loan you an additional 100 bucks plus the 10 bucks you owe with the same terms and next year you can make good on it. Such a deal huh! Trouble is next year the gov will be in the same boat only deeper because the interest, that little 10% was never made, it does not exist, so it can never be paid back. Of course the gov is us, we the people and we are the ones who are enslaved because the dept can never be paid. Einstein was right compounded interest is the most powerful force in the universe, he just failed to mention it is working against us as long as our gov continues to barrow money from those money changers over at the fed.
Our gov has the constitutional ability to print, or coin its own money and spend it into the economy without interest. That is a fact, and we did this from about 1776, or before, because King George was upset that the colonist were using their own money, until 1913 when the fed came into being. There were central banks in existence before the fed, but they were always defeated, in fact Pres. Jackson survived an assassination attempt because he opposed a central bank. Just think, if the gov. can print and spend its own money as needed without interest, there is no need for taxes. We the people do not have to be enslaved to a central bank working as tenant farmers to pay back a debt which can never be paid.
I paid my dues and did my time in corporate America so I have a pension waiting for me to get old but I have no intention of retiring. I'd just like to be able to cut this down from full-time to part-time and be able to cherry pick my jobs. Hopefully I won't have died by then from lack of medical insurance.
June
QuoteSo what are you doing to make it work for you?
pm sent
Well, as long as we're talking about securing our futures (or at least trying to) what has anyone done about preparing for not being able to work, say in the very near future? I'm talking about disability insurance. I have looked into this on several occasions and always come away with the same conclusion: With all my other commitments, I can't afford to pay the premiums. But, since I am the only one who is doing the production work in my business, I am taking a big risk. Someone had, in a previous post, mentioned Aflac. I called them, but they told me I had to have a certain number of employees and offer it to them.
Anyone?
Rich
Wow, what you guys know about fascism couldn't fill a thimble. Read some history before you start spouting nonsense just because you don't happen to agree with the present administration or the direction of the country. For what it's worth, I don't like the direction, either. But we didn't get where we are overnight and we sure aren't going to get out the present situation overnight, either.
I have no illusions about retirement in the traditional sense, gold watch 'n' all. And we've been maxing out IRA contributions for years now. We converted both our's to ROTHs taking full advantage of the opportunity to do so over the course of 4-5 yrs. (I've forgotten how long that period was). We have both contributed as much as we've been able to our "straight job" retirement funds over the years, thereby reducing our taxable income.
No disability insurance. No Long Term Care Insurance. We contribute to our Health Savings Account weekly and any out of pocket routine exams are funded via the HSA account. Our pathetic insurance policy is through the husband's work, I live in fear of losing it, he's long since stopped worrying about it. Health care insurance is a constant worry, so much so that we've actually considered moving out of the country.
We worked our tails off to pay off the house, have always driven used cars and maintained them well. We grow our own produce, live frugally, and hope for the best. We will likely have to sell our home as we age, but when the time is right to do so we will know it (I hope). We have been fortunate in that aspect, we built at the bottom of the recession in '90-'91 (plywood was $8/sheet) and have done much of the finish work and landscaping ourselves, forgoing expensive "necessities" in favor of monthly payments to the principal of the note. We will realize a solid gain when it's time to sell, even today we would do just fine.
Life's a crap shoot, I don't like to sound fatalistic, but none of us really know what will become of us.
When I was 15 my dad told me. "Marc, i'm gonna give you all the motorcycle seats I take in and give you the matrial to do them and let you keep the money." Back then 40 yrs ago it cost about $10-$15 to cover a motorcycle seat. I was making 10-30 a day after school sometimes. It was fantastic money for a 9th grader.
Now the cheapest m/c seat we do is $85. When I retire and hand my buainess down to my son, I am gonna get all the motorcycle seats he takes in and hes gonna give me the material to cover them and Im gonna keep all the money, plus tractor seats and easy stuff, plus he will pay me rent on the building until I die. I will also get SS I hope if its still there plus i have a bit of cash saved in the bank.
Bobbin:
I can tell you first hand we would be bankrupt right now and I would more then likely be 6 ft under if we didn't have blue chip health insurance. My monthly prescription costs alone ( including my chemo drug ) is $ 4,000. Every consult I have at the Hutch in Seattle is $ 15,000. When I get to the point of needing a stem cell transplant the cost will be $ 250,000.
It still boggles my mind that we live in the richest nation in the world yet we have people losing their homes, their life savings and are stuck paying medical bills for the rest of their life because they got sick and had no insurance coverage. The last I knew my medical insurance was costing my employer $ 1,000 per month. Who in the heck can afford that ?
We have some serious problems in this country and you are right. They didn't all just happen in the last two years. It has been brewing for a decade or more.
Chris
Preparing for the future, retirement namely, can actually depend on a lot of luck in every dimension of your life; work, health, investments, and so on. But, very much in your health. It would take a ton of insurance to cover everything that could possibly happen in a life span.
But, on the financial side, retirement planning needs to start early and should be followed over the length of the plan. It will require living poorer than you might think while working but that is the price you have to pay. Can't drive new this and live in new that and spend, spend. It takes dedication, to say the least plus that luck factor mentioned above.
During times like this, it takes a good head to ride through the waves. Many talk about their investments going down and I hope they haven't sold, the moral of investing is you don't loose until you sell nor do you make a dime for that matter, excluding the dividend category. Money can be made by buying and selling I know but the style I am referencing is avoid selling lower than you buy. So, maybe if one has a good plan, sticks with it through the down cycles, and with a little luck, they can survive. If I sold about two years ago, it would have been a wash, but most have come back and some have weathered quite well.
The encouragement is to keep everything in perspective, life is a "shot" and all we can do is our best.
I don't even want to retire, I enjoy doing my thing, but having started long ago, it is doable now. For now, I just am just thankful for the opportunity to work long weeks, I particularly like the fact that there is always new challenges and new things to learn. The investments, retirement if you will is just a way of keeping score. ;)
Good luck to all with respect to their plan and I especially hope we all the health to see it to the end.
Doyle
QuoteWow, what you guys know about fascism couldn't fill a thimble.
I don't know too much about facism either, but I think it has something to do with the way liberals will shout down anyone who dares to say anything to challenge their widely held beliefs on issues like gay marriage, global warming and gun control.
QuoteWe have both contributed as much as we've been able to our "straight job" retirement funds over the years, thereby reducing our taxable income.
Could you elaborate on that?
Thanks,
Rich
We both work for other employers as well as for ourselves. We have small retirement plans through them to which we contribute with each paycheck, we receive a very small employer match. Our contributions to those funds are made with pre-tax dollars, thus reducing our taxable gross at year end. Monies contributed will grow tax-deferred until we begin to take disbursements, at which time those disbursements will become part of our taxable earnings. I thought that was pretty straight forward.
If you make the time to learn what fascism actually is you will see rather readily that the United States has a long way to go before our country could be loosely considered fascist. Or sot, let alone communist.
I'm sorry, I got a little off track in my thinking when you said you converted your IRA's to Roth IRA's. I guess you meant that your contributions were not taxable before you converted since, of course, now they are.
As far as the what our country would be considered, I hope your right about that, it just seems that little by little, we are having to walk around on eggshells to make sure what we say is "politically correct" so as not to get anyone angry at us for being so "insensitive" (i.e. if your not on our side, your part of the problem, or didn't Al Gore say "the time for debate is over"?).
Rich
Rich we have Simple IRAs at our "straight jobs", those receive a meagre employer match and our contributions to them are made with pre-tax dollars. Contributions grow untaxed and we will pay tax on the disbursements we will eventually take from those accounts. These accounts are not the same thing as personal IRAs; they're basically the really small business's way to offer xomething akin to a "401K" or pension to employees.
We also have personal IRAs. We have been maxing those out for years now. When the opportunity to roll traditional IRAs into ROTH IRAs we jumped at it. When the rollover was first implemented you had the option of spreading the taxes due on the conversion over the course of 4 or 5 yrs., I believe. We took full advantage of that as we were converting signifcant sums from one to the other. The Traditional IRA allowed you to deduct the amount of your contribution from your personal taxes when you filed your income tax, and you then paid the taxes due when you began to take disbursements. The ROTH IRAs are funded with after tax dollars, and the benefit is that since you've already paid the taxes due on the contributions you will be permitted to withdraw from the funds TAX FREE, all the while the monies will grow and compound (we hope!), taking advantage of Albert Einstein's "8th. Wonder of the World".
Do not confuse the current political climate and trend toward fastidious "political correctness" with Fascism, They are in no way remotely related. Fascism is form of government based on totalitarianism and dictatorship, originated in Italy in 1922 and embraced by the Nazi regime in Germany. That model is a long, long way from our republic, a representative democracy. I personally loathe the trend toward "PC" which I feel is little more than a red herring to distract us from the greater problems presently facing our country. I grew up on a diet of Monty Python, Saturday Night Live, and Blazing Saddles, and believe that humor, satire, and parody are the surest ways to fight bigotry and intolerance. If that isn't cherishing free speech, I don't know what is.
Yes, I believe you are correct that our form of gov't does not resemble fascism in the traditional sense.
The thing that has me concerned is that well intentioned individuals will go along with innocent sounding causes that you can really get behind. The trouble is that it is marketed by those who stand to benefit, in such a way as to make disagreement with the ideals taboo. We are told Going green, banning smoking in public places, cutting our carbon footprint, banning guns and being pro-choice are so good for our health and well-being that anyone who raises an objection based on cost, or any other side effect is labeled as being part of the problem and therefore an enemy of the cause. The resulting fervor becomes almost religious in it's attitude and causes people to do irrational things (remember Y2K, and heterosexual AIDS?).
I think the Germans got pretty worked up about threats to their national pride just before the Holocaust.
Anyway, that's my .02, I'll get off my soapbox as I've probably pretty much hijacked this thread by now.
Rich
That's ok Rich, anything to extreme rouses distrust or questions.
Back to retirement, the weekend news now reports money is being pulled prematurely from retirement accounts ( IRA's, 401's). This, they report is significant enough in several respects that some may not be able to retire and the impacts toward recovery from this recession.
I did check my accounts and true enough, values are shrinking.
Doyle
QuoteThat model is a long, long way from our republic, a representative democracy.
I stand by my definition of fascism, at least in the context of this thread. I do realize there are many aspects beyond what is being discussed here. It is true that our form of gov. is "supposed" to be a constitutional republic, but is it really? When was the last time anyone felt there representative really represented them in DC? Today writing a letter to our Senator, or representative in the house only gets a form letter as a reply and no real action. When the bail outs passed 90% of Americans were against them, but still they passed. Our representatives were getting their hat handed to them in their home towns over Obama's health care, but still it passed. I apologize if I offend anyone, but in the evidence I have seen, our presidential elections are a fraud, our presidents are appointed, not elected, its all for show. Our country bleeds jobs over seas, impoverishing Americans, but what do our representatives do about it? nothing. I do believe we have some control over local and some state elections, especially if there is a ground swell support for a candidate. This may be the best place to start taking back our country. Our country is going fascist, a little at a time because they cant get away with it all at once. It's the frog in the pot analogy, turn up the heat all at once and it will jump out, turn up the heat a little at a time and the frog will not notice until its to late. I also feel it is important we do not allow ourselves to be divided by small differences of opinion, we all agree things are not going in the direction we want them, we have to come together and find solutions. I also think it is important we do not confuse patriotism with love of our gov. over our love for country.
Very well put Mike.
Kyle
We discussed the very same thing today, DB. It is said that the banking system operates on trust and public confidence. Nothing we have seen lately has filled us with much trust or confidence. Shrinking values have us worried, too.
We have decided to continue on our present budget but we have also considered getting out of the market more and using some of the uninvested money to do some "around the house" projects we've continued to postpone over the years. At least we'll know where it went; to the local building supplier with great employees, and to any other skilled person we hire. That's how we "grow economies", one small business to the next. ;)
Those people making premature withdrawals from retirement accounts are using that money to pay their present expenses, yes? I know several people who've been unemployed or drastically underemployed for well over a year now. Most have shaken their heads and said they've never seen it like this before.
Bobbin,
Yes, spending your money locally can add value to your community and your life style also. Indeed, such a plan would spur your local economy now. So why wait, since you have your other bases covered pretty well? Keep the money at home.
Something I will share:
At a recent financial seminar, the discussion centered on
"what do I do with my money?",
something undoubtedly on everyone's mind in light of todays economy. The analyst suggested NOT to stop investing, but be sure to pick quality blue chips, that pay a good dividend. This guy does not sell stock BTW, nor would he recommend any specific stocks. He spoke more in a consultant capacity.
How does this recommendation set with most of you? Or has the downturn scared you out of the market?
Doyle
Doyle:
One of the forces that should drive anyone's retirement investment decisions is " time ". If your getting close to retirement then your investments should all be very conservative. If your a long ways from retirement then your investments can be a bit more risky.
Chris
Jeez freedom 95 is looking less likely all the time thanks for the downer you guys.
I think what Mojo said is very important, but if there is time (10years or more) before retirement, I think waiting it out with investments that were well chosen to begin with is the way to go.
Rich
QuoteHow does this recommendation set with most of you?
Like I stated earlier in this thread, I had a good system I was using that worked very well for me and it showed that it was time to get out and I did shortly before everything started falling apart. The system I was using went on the assumption that the market is totally manipulated and that the manipulators foot prints could be read in the charts if one knows what to watch for. Sounds outrageous, but I have to admit it worked. I am thoroughly convinced now that the big banks and the gov. work together and manipulate the market. So as you can imagine, I am completely out of the market and have no plans of getting back in. Not because I am afraid, I never invested money I couldn't afford to loose, but because I do not want to be part of their scam. Also at this time I have no confidence in the economy, they want it to tank. The best investment right now is canned food and shotguns. Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone just IMO.
QuoteYep like I said, the math in investing does not work. Like gambling the odds are in the houses favor. You might win a little here and a little there but over time little by little or all at once, the house wins and you get to go home broke.
Would you say that's a recent development? Since many have done well over the years investing in the stock market.
Rich
Rich: I think it is a resent development. After the crash of 27 the banks started setting people up for the next big fall, which I believe we are experiencing know. The period just after ww2 up until until about black Monday 1987 was probably the best time for investing in stocks.
We continue to invest regularly, that's the whole concept behind "dollar cost averaging", but I have to confess that I do so with more trepidation than confidence these days. As has been pointed out, the trick is to invest in things you understand and you use. I never really understood dollar cost averaging until I read Suze Ormand's (sp?) first book, BTW.
Investing with an eye on your "time horizon" is really important, as Mojo pointed out. Quite frankly, as the junior member for the household I have more time to see my investments "recover" than does the husband. If I allow myself to think about it too much I can get pretty freaked out by it all, but we've followed time honored advice and never got sucked into "livin' large" or putting money in vehicles that carried a very high risk. As tempting as it was we never allowed ourselves to get greedy with repsect to high returns. While the immediate price per share may have taken a tremendous hit in the past 2 yrs., we still own the the same number of shares in quality stocks and believe they will recover. When everything was going gangbusters the returns we enjoyed were reinvested in more shares. Most of all, we've not had to raid retirement investments to pay the monthly nut. I don't believe we will see a return to the highs that made so many behave so recklessly, but historically money invested in the market has returned decent yields. I see no alternative in liquid savings, at least not at .5-1.5%!
But we have some money invested to produce an income stream and that's taken a hit... the stream is now more of a trickle and it's those monies that we're contemplating removing from the market and putting to work on "projects". It seems more practical to spend the money than watch it evaporate with no immediate benefit, you know? The past two weeks have not been fun ones, but we're not completely panicked by them, either. As I said, I can get pretty jittery about it all, but I think reacting to market swings and economic cycles requires a cool, level head.
Anyone who subscribes to the "stock market has had it's day in the sun" theory care to offer any viable alternatives?
Rich
"... canned goods and shotguns." ;)
Quote from: bobbin on August 24, 2010, 04:14:38 pm
"... canned goods and shotguns." ;)
And now we're back to cat food!
Me well im %$#*ed :o when i get old ( wait i am old) its going to be SS a reverse morgage and ill probly do canvas out of my trailor till I cant stitch no more. if i make it that long.
Quote from: Rich on August 24, 2010, 03:14:17 pm
Anyone who subscribes to the "stock market has had it's day in the sun" theory care to offer any viable alternatives?
Rich
Real Estate. There are some amazing bargains at the moment in certain areas of the country. That is where I put my money after the last market crash. I just listed one property last week and will probably double my money when sold. I purchased it about 5 years ago. I have another property that I will be listing in another couple months and I expect a decent return on that one as well. Of course we also just bought this property
( a foreclosure home ) at half its value last year.
The housing market will correct itself and come back but the problem is knowing when that time will be. I am thinking probably another 5 years before house prices rebound. Even then they will not come back to pre-recession levels but there is still some good profits to be made.
Oil is another good bet. Prices are down but will not stay that way. The second that our economy starts to grow, oil will rebound..............big time.
I do not think that the stock market is finished in as far as big gains. There are a lot of corporations out there sitting on HUGE cash reserves that are in good financial shape.
The one industry I can tell you stay clear of is airline stocks. I cannot think of anyone who has ever made money over a long period of time on airline stocks ( unless you were holding SWA stock ). Even Southwest is not performing like it used to.
JMHO,
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on August 24, 2010, 06:28:43 pm
Real Estate. There are some amazing bargains at the moment in certain areas of the country.
thats for sure, you can buy a home on the water down here for as low as 100k thats why i made my move even taking a 70K on the sale of my last house I couldnt pass it up.
An indepth review or study of business cycles sure provides a good or better understanding of the free market. Nothing goes straight up forever nor does it go straight down forever. That concept alone explains most of what is happening today. We are somewhere close or in the bottom of the cycle now, going through a washout or reposition for a new start. But, equally important in an understanding is it takes time and understanding to make the best of anything, Not everyone in the market have the same experience, the investor has to be at the right place the right time. Remember the 90's when the tech stocks were the place to be and at a point the right time to sell? I sure do.
I heard a story this week about an old timer who bought stocks in the depression era and has held them until now, he reports a tremendous success story. Kinds one of the buy low and sell high stories.
So, you guys buying property now, could fall into the same category of success.
If you don't invest in stocks, have all the caned meat and a couple shotguns, then what is next on the investing menu? There are those with money to invest now who have all the other bases covered, like retirement, home, and etc., so where do they put their money now, invest that is? CD's are bit low and soon as this economy perks up, inflation will become something to deal with.
The back yard burial doesn't yield much of anything, does it? ;)
Doyle
I thought this looked interesting:
http://emsnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/us-economic-growth-is-inflation.png?w=500&h=300 (http://emsnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/us-economic-growth-is-inflation.png?w=500&h=300)
Rich