Hi all...
As many of you know.. I'm newly in business and starting to get some calls for estimates.. But I'm having people request photos of the work we've done..
I had worked with another upholsterer who has since left the state and moved back to florida.. so I don't have photos of my own personal work...
How have or would you all handle this? Thanks!!!
Lauren~
Two possibilities;
1-make up some simple sample pieces so they can see firsthand what your workmanship looks like,
2-Tell them the truth, that you have just gone out on your own, but that they will benefit from a lower price.
Then, take pictures of their job to show future customers when they ask.
P.S. Then make sure to gradually bring your prices up to where they belong!
Rich
I agree with Rich.
You don't have any pieces of your personal collection?
If you can beg, borrow, or steal a wing chair and put a stripe on it, matching it all around, do a really good job on the cushion, that will make some impressive pictures.
I have begun taking a ton of pictures. Some are OK, some totally suck, some are great. The point is, you have to document your work. For too long I would ask a customer to send me a picture of the work in situ, but they never did... opportunity lost!
So now, no matter how poor my photography skills I take pictures of my work. I have lots of "action shots" and finished shots. And I try to keep a snippet of the fabric on hand, too, so a customer can actually feel the fabric used in the photographs.
Pictures are important. Really important!
-1- cut pics from a magazine.
if you think you can deliver what you just cut from the magazine...
scan the pics and put them in you portfolio.
-2- start taking pics right away of your own work, from start to finish, that's just about 10 shots, start showing that. the befores, durings and afters are always appreciated from the customers.
the hardship:
you have a deadline and you burned out, you don't give a @#$% about taking pics... conquer your burned out state, take picture ALL the time of ALL your work... at the end of the day you'll be glad you did!
I certainly don't dispute the importance of having pics of your work. But it hasn't been the case at my shop. VERY rarely does a customer ask to see pictures of my work. Maybe because I have a well established business in a small town.
Before the days of digital photography, I considered myself a bit of a camera expert. I don't anymore. Like tapissier points out, it's easy to get caught up in the rush of getting a job done and delivered without taking the time to get a GOOD photo of it. And just like humans, many pieces of furniture simply AREN'T photogenic. And I don't see any reason to take pics of the "same ole, same ole" micro-fiber or chenille sofa that's "as common as the day is long".
But your points are well taken. I am going to make an attempt to shore up my photo-taking abilities.
I agree with tapissier. If your work looks as good as a magazine pic, I wouldn't have any qualms about using one.
As a rule of thumb we should all take pictures of our work.
here's why:
just for ourselves, as a referential in order to keep the information in a hard copy form.
I personally keep a pictorial folder on every piece of furniture and fabric that comes thru the shop.
I have a wealth of pictures that serves me as a technical referential in order to assess and solve problems.
I label my folders by style, whether contemporary or period style.
Ultimately these documents help everyone in the shop to visualize the correct shapes and finish look.
Quote from: tapissier on September 21, 2011, 03:38:55 pm
-1- cut pics from a magazine.
if you think you can deliver what you just cut from the magazine...
scan the pics and put them in you portfolio.
This is the dodgiest advice that I have ever seen on this forum, under no circumstances do this. Do not start your business in upholstery by misrepresenting your self, do not assume customers are dumb. If you have not got any of your work sitting around your lounge room then you probably aren't ready to go into your own business. I don't personally know an upholsterer whether in there own business or work for someone that has furniture cover by someone else. :o
I stated in my post above that it is rare for a customer to ask to see pics of my work. After thinking about it, I'm ready to amend that statement.
I have NEVER had a customer ask to see pics of my work. A few have asked to come in and see some of my finished pieces, but even that is very rare.
I guess it's a lot more common in more highly competitive areas.
I see no reason to take pics of everyday "cookie cutter" furniture.
When I HAVE done some nice, or unusual pieces, I've asked the customers if I could take a picture of it in their home, since the setting is much nicer. I've sensed a little reluctance. I think some consider it an invasion of their privacy to have their living room photographed for public viewing. These are probably the same people that expose WAY too much info on Facebook.
ok, I was being sarcastic, this is all so pathetic. you guys take yourselves way too seriously.
Of course don't misrepresent urself by cutting pictures form magazine, although I had interviewed people that did just that...
So here's a real solution, get yourself a bare frame of an Art Deco Club Chair and build it up from scratch using at least 3 or 4 different techniques.
Take pictures of each steps, I guarantee you it will be the best start to build a portfolio.
How could anyone sells his labor without showing what the process is all about?
QuoteThis is the dodgiest advice that I have ever seen on this forum, under no circumstances do this. Do not start your business in upholstery by misrepresenting your self, do not assume customers are dumb. If you have not got any of your work sitting around your lounge room then you probably aren't ready to go into your own business. I don't personally know an upholsterer whether in there own business or work for someone that has furniture cover by someone else.
To do so, is to miss represent yourself, if you don't have any pictures of your work do something of your own and take pictures of it. My Grandfather was fond of saying "some times self respect comes at a high cost" In this case it's only the cost of your reupholstering a chair, cheap if you ask me.
Quote from: tapissier on September 23, 2011, 04:04:29 am
ok, I was being sarcastic, this is all so pathetic. you guys take yourselves way too seriously.
Of course don't misrepresent urself by cutting pictures form magazine, although I had interviewed people that did just that...
So here's a real solution, get yourself a bare frame of an Art Deco Club Chair and build it up from scratch using at least 3 or 4 different techniques.
Take pictures of each steps, I guarantee you it will be the best start to build a portfolio.
How could anyone sells his labor without showing what the process is all about?
Well this guy asked a question, he might have been a bit wet behind the ears and taken your suggestion seriously.
You tried loading the tacks into the staple gun didn't you ;D Show some photos when your done.
Quote from: tapissier on September 23, 2011, 04:04:29 am
How could anyone sells his labor without showing what the process is all about?
I do it all day long, every day of the week.
In my town, when a customer walks into my shop, it's likely that MY grandparents did work for THEIR grandparents.
The only time that I'm asked to show a sample of my work, is when a distrustful northerner moves into town.
Dallas is 50 miles away. I get a ton of work out of Dallas from people who've only heard of me through "word of mouth".
But like I said before, you guys have convinced me to get up a portfolio. If for no other reason than my own personal reference.
Make the customer a small sample out of the fabric they are interested in. A lot of people have a terrible time visualizing what something may look like. Using photos from a publication of others work to show a customer a style...etc and telling them you could it make it look like that piece in the photo letting them know it it not your work. Build the relationship with the customer.....invest in them and they will invest in you.
Quote from: sofadoc on September 23, 2011, 05:58:28 am
Quote from: tapissier on September 23, 2011, 04:04:29 am
How could anyone sells his labor without showing what the process is all about?
I do it all day long, every day of the week.
In my town, when a customer walks into my shop, it's likely that MY grandparents did work for THEIR grandparents.
The only time that I'm asked to show a sample of my work, is when a distrustful northerner moves into town.
Dallas is 50 miles away. I get a ton of work out of Dallas from people who've only heard of me through "word of mouth".
But like I said before, you guy have convinced me to get up a portfolio. If for no other reason than my own personal reference.
Honestly Doc its worth having a record for those rare ones, i recently landed a $15,000 sofa commission from a client who didn't come to me via word of mouth. it's the most expensive sofa i've made off my own name and it took some serious evidence to swing the client my way.
alex
Quote from: alge on September 23, 2011, 10:34:57 am
i recently landed a $15,000 sofa commission from a client who didn't come to me via word of mouth. it's the most expensive sofa i've made off my own name and it took some serious evidence to swing the client my way.
If I ever even sniff a $15,000 sofa job, believe me, I'll have the most comprehensive photo journal possible to show them. ;D
Congratulations, Alex. Sounds like you've really "got it goin' on" (NOT being sarcastic). Always glad to hear when the stitching brethren are doing well.
Hey guys let's get this straight once and for all:
Taking pics of our work should not be to showcase your work at the first place.
it should be for yourself first and foremost.
As a reference tool, wether technical or financial or both.
But most importantly as a feel good tool.
If you feel good about your end product you should have a record of it, if you don't feel good about your end product...then you are in he wrong place.
I ALWAYS took pics for myself first, but what ever the media , it has never generated business, (newspapers articles, shows, videos) business has always been coming from word of mouth, but I will keep shooting the processes and making movies just to scream to the world how beautiful and fulfilling the work is all about.
more to come...stay tuned...here's my site: www.atelierdefrance.com..I took all the pics and did all the work, and NO I don't have a social life and I don't play baseball on weekends.
week-ends? what week-ends?
I like your sense of humor, Tapissier. ::)
I am in awe of your manifest talent and am glad to see your name pop up on the forums again. Really!
Great site Tappisier, obviously with work like that you know how to use a staple gun.Your photos look like they came out of a magazine, sorry I missed your sarcasm, it is probably one of those cultural differences that bob up from time to time as people people from different countries converse on the internet, in Australia sarcasm is considered the lowest form of humour, to be used when having at best, a friendly swipe at someone. Keep up the good work, it's great to see someone with your talent that does not take themselves to seriously(not like some others on this site ;) ;) :-X) Looking forward to hearing more from you, as long as there is no talk of bobbin parties.
Quote from: tapissier on September 23, 2011, 02:37:35 pm
Taking pics of our work should not be to showcase your work at the first place.
it should be for yourself first and foremost.
As a reference tool, wether technical or financial or both.
One reason that I'm so lax in taking pictures is the hassle of setting up a good backdrop, and lighting.
But, if pics are mainly for my own personal use, then I can just aim and click.
Tapissier: Your website is amazing. You have a lot to offer this board. I hope you won't be such a stranger from now on.
Dont get me wrong S.doc its taken two decades of taking hits on price and seeing my work with other peoples names all over it to a get even the merest whiff of this kind of commission as me, myself and I.
Awesome site tappisier, your work exemplifies why the french system/tour works so well. I wish our government had the testicular fortitude to acknowledge it takes 6/7 years full time to train as a traditional upholsterer rather than 3/4 years one day per week. Its probably why we get so many french students doing six month placements here in the uk.
thanks all for the kind comments, in terms of taking pictures, I found it essential to ease the communication with employees.
Most of the labor in the states, in the field of Upholstery are High-school drop outs, very seldom I had college educated laborers, let alone trade-school or vocational school educated, so having pictures makes things easy to teach my labor force on how I want things done and how it is supposed to look.
I also have white boards, one for the deadlines and assigned job and one for technical data to explain the know how.
In all these years in being in business I still have to tell people how to "tie their shoe", it's getting tiring, but that's the price to pay for being in the states, at least it is more business friendly than in France. In France, it would cost be $2.00 for every dollar I pay my help. Someone has to pay for the freebies and the small business are the ones getting hit.
An other subject of conversation I guess.
I think you need to ease off, Scotty. ::)
Here's why: a lot of the people who come into the shop where I work finished high school and that was it for them. Every few years we get an ex-convict who comes in looking for a job as they frequently "teach" upholstery skills in prisons. It's not that they aren't bright and capable people at all, but many of them have simply decided to shut the door on further education; they want to do the work, get their check and then go home. They aren't interested in professional criticism, mastering more advanced techniques, or stretching their minds to learn about subtleties in a business that is really full of them.
But even for the brightest, most sincerely interested employee sometimes a picture is indeed worth a thousand words. I can't tell you the number of times I've suggested to my boss that a digital camera and a laptop would make my job a whole lot easier. Being able to look at the shot of a difficult site on an enclosure and SEE what I have to do is so much faster than reading a poorly scribbled work order. It would actually save time and money and avoid costly errors... but no... . That will never happen because Boss "doesn't want a computer" (read: doesn't know how to use one) and is perfectly happy controlling all the information and doing the things the way they've been done for the past 20 yrs..
All of which is fine, except that it makes my job harder and more frustrating because when something goes awry I am dressed down and reminded in the most condescending tone possible that I should have asked more questions... fair enough... but how can I ask questions when Boss is out in the field and won't carry a cell phone, either?
So I don't think Tapissier was dissin' the quality of his employees, just pointing out a simple way to make it easier to avoid frustration and delay in his atelier. I wish my boss was as interested in making things easier! it wouldn't "insult me", one bit!
Okay Bobbin I just found it to be very condescending, it's one I'll back away from as I find it a bit "tiring".
Can see your point about the photos, as it is always a help , but the tone of the post struck a nerve with me, I can't read anything into it that could change my mind, enough said.
I know we've touched on this point before but it's worth repeating. It's so easy to read something and interpret it one way instead of another because we don't have the person sitting in front of us and can't see th4 eyes, the body language, or hear the intonation in a voice.
And I know exactly what you mean about something rubbing you the wrong way, Scotty.. And so does everyone else on this site because it's happened to us, too, lol. No hide lost, no big deal, right? ;)
.
In all these years in being in business I still have to tell people how to "tie their shoe", it's getting tiring, but that's the price to pay for being in the states, at least it is more business friendly than in France. In France, it would cost be $2.00 for every dollar I pay my help. Someone has to pay for the freebies and the small business are the ones getting hit.
An other subject of conversation I guess.
[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOyDR2b71ag&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOyDR2b71ag&feature=related) This chick say's it better than I can, If you guys don't want her, send her over here we need a new Prime Minister.
Scotty., I love Elizabeth Warren. She's smart, she pulls no punches, and she asks questions that embarrass the really hard-core right wingers, the nascent "Tea Party", especially.
The Republican Party in the USA loathes her and you can clearly see why when you listen to what she says. She scares the livin' daylights out of them because she has taken a vocal stand against abuses in the financial industry (the mortgage debacle, in particular) and has been very outspoken about regulating credit card companies and requiring them to fully spell out the interest expense that will be incurred if only "minimum payments" are made. Changes in both those industries have been instituted because of her no-nonsense, "just the facts, ma'am" approach to the underlying causes of so many personal bankruptcies. She is an outspoken advocate for the necessity of sound, comprehensive "financial literacy" for all citizensm esp. KIDS, in this country.
She doesn't have all the answers, by a long shot, but she is down in the trenches and gruntin' out for the workday, hourly employee who pays the lion's share of taxes in this country.
Quote from: tapissier on September 21, 2011, 03:38:55 pm
-1- cut pics from a magazine.
Absolutely NOT! I realize that you were being sarcastic, but I'd hate to have someone take this seriously. Someone should never try to represent someone else's work as his own. Only take pictures of one's own work. To build your business on a solid foundation, be honest and truthful in all that you do.
Quote from: tapissier on September 21, 2011, 03:38:55 pm
-2- start taking pics right away of your own work, from start to finish, that's just about 10 shots, start showing that. the befores, durings and afters are always appreciated from the customers.
I agree with this. 10 pictures would do fine. As for myself I take a lot more pictures than this. I admit I go overboard, I generally take 25 pictures for a simple job and up to 150 or more on a large job. Then I pick and choose which pictures I want to use.
Quote from: tapissier on September 21, 2011, 03:38:55 pm
the hardship:
you have a deadline and you burned out, you don't give a @#$% about taking pics... conquer your burned out state, take picture ALL the time of ALL your work... at the end of the day you'll be glad you did!
I also agree. Take pictures all the time no matter how you feel. To accomplish this, make a safe place out in your workshop that is in the middle of your work area so that you can grab your camera every time you think about it.
Best Wishes,
Stephen
Quote from: bobbin on September 25, 2011, 03:46:06 pm
She doesn't have all the answers, by a long shot, but she is down in the trenches and gruntin' out for the workday, hourly employee who pays the lion's share of taxes in this country.
None of them have all the answers, is this lady in government?
She was unable to win confirmation to the newly created post Obama wanted her to occupy, due to hard-line Republican opposition. They have enough control and votes to scuttle any Democratic bills/appointees.
She is a law professor (I believe) from Harvard University. She has been mooted as a Democratic candidate to challenge Republican Scott Brown (who won the late Ted Kennedy's seat in the US Senate). Frankly, I don't think she has what it takes to campaign and win an elected seat, but she is bright, very competent, and clearly a great candidate for an appointed seat on any important commission with respect to tax payer rights and consumer rights.
Yeah, I'm not sure I like the way you choose your goverment, from an outside view it looks more like a popularity contest and then you have people running the country that never had to be voted in by the people, have I got that right?
The problem with the popular vote is a lot of people who vote have no idea what is in the constitution, how the government works or what the three branches of government are. They'll vote for a guy who promises a bunch of hope and change even though he never really explains what that means. The more the person looks and talks like a movie star the better chance he has to get elected. Most people don't bother looking at their history or past political record.
Our presidential voting system is based on electoral votes that can get very complicated but basically each state gets a certain number of votes based on population. If a politician wins that state he wins all the electoral votes from that state no mater how many people voted for the other person. It is possible to win the popular vote and still loose to the person who won the most electoral votes.
This became a huge controversy in the Bush vs Gore election.
I also think people underestimate the uncontrolled power of the paid lobby in Washington DC. There is major corporate money spent on lobbyists who are very slenderly controlled and they wield a tremendous amount of political clout with those representatives who are elected by the good citizens of this country. For a taxpayer to believe that he is not "out moneyed" and under represented is the height of folly. Money runs this country (and all the others, too) no matter how long and loudly the representatives claim otherwise.
There needs to be very strict regulation of lobbyists and huge, multi-national corporate entities need to be brought to heel. Until those things are accomplished the taxpaying citizens of this country will have a small voice in the Washington chorus.
I have never understood exactly how your elections work, the only thing I know for sure is that it goes on for to long while they sort out who is going to be running for president, though we get to see some of your best nut jobs, if it's annoying to us to hear about all these presidential hopefuls it must be hell for you guys.
Down hear we basically vote for a representative in our electorate, which ever wins the most seats governs, the leader of the leading party is Prime Minister but he can be replaced by his party at any time, so you vote for the party not the leader, in theory anyway. A lot of people migrate hate this system as they say we don't get the leader we vote for, but only the people in the electorate that the leader reside actually vote for him/her.
Also by law all Australian citizens have to vote or be fined.
I can see the advantages of a dictatorship, no election campaigns, and no lies cause they don't go through the charade of consulting the people or caring what they think.
Hi i have been going through d same problem for a while now what try to do is document my jobs on my pocket pc n up load them to my face book account then refer my customers to that address so they can easily view what little i have to show ;)
I've got years of photos of my canvas work not as many of ulholsterry i only take pix of complete Interiors I've done and most are cushions and not complete boats so I don't have as many. That fine I can show a customer what his can look like. It when they ask for references that they can call and go see.
Then I have to think of a boat like
there's who I've done if there still in thebstate indont know ind the type of job that asked it generaly one kind and I only vet a couple
a year any more. And I don't have thee name and number probly anymore or if they want to be bothered. I feel funny asking.
I'm very late getting into this conversation, I know. And normally I don't dredge up old threads because you folks generally hit every detail so well. But, oh my, I looked through the first few comments and about fell over dead. Never EVER use someone else's work as your own. My God. Legally you are infringing on copyright laws by stealing images knowingly owned by another. Morally you are misrepresenting yourself which does nothing but tarnish your image.
I have a shop who is (geographically) considered a competitor. His website has pictures of other people's work. His logo uses cars taken from clipart. He has claimed work as his own that he marginally helped with at another shop. His image and business is nothing but a huge joke to us. He has no respectability with anyone and his business suffers because of it.
If you don't have pictures of jobs you've already completed, then you yank the seats out of your daily driver and redo them. Hit the Salvation Army and snag an old ottoman or wingback chair and redo it. Either keep it in your shop to show off, ALONG WITH taking scads of pictures. Or, put it out for sale.
We have been cataloging our jobs for the last 11 years, finished work as well as in-production. Our portfolios are the centeral focus at car shows when we set up our booth. People stop and begin to describe their "different" or "unique" interior desires, and I almost always can flip to a job that closely resembles what they desire. It's a great selling tool. BUT, from day one, every picture ever used by PRO Stitch has always been work done BY US. Never ever taken from any other source. That is just wrong.
I just went back and re-read this topic. I see that most everyone is adamant about not using pics of work other than your own. I stated earlier in this thread that I "didn't have a problem with it".
Just for the record, I've never tried to pass off a pic of someone else's work as mine. I suspect that my competition has, but I really don't have the energy to challenge him on it.
I don't post a lot of pics of my work on my website. In a town where everybody knows everybody, I have a lot of customers that really would rather I didn't put their furniture on my website.
For example, one of my best customers is an insurance agent, who has my competitor for a client. He'd prefer that my competitor doesn't know that he gets his upholstery work done elsewhere. Another good customer is a divorced woman who doesn't want her ex-hubby knowing how she spends her money.
I realize this topic wasn't about public display, but moreso about a private portfolio to show potential customers.
I've always had more customers than I can serve in an 8 hour day, so I never felt any sense of urgency to put a portfolio together.
At 53, I may be getting crotchety before my time. ;D
But I certainly understand the opinions of Russ, and others here who are still at a more competitive stage in their careers.
Sofadoc you can tell me to mind my own F'n business if you want but 53 is way to young to NOT be "competitive."
Quite frankly I hate that word. I'd rather call it growing my business. Don't know if I'll ever stop. I'm only a year older than you.
Of course we all run our business differently. :)
Kody, "competitive" was probably a poor choice of words. I also like the term "growing your business".
But I only see 2 ways to grow my business:
1) Work more hours
2) Hire employees
I have no intention of doing either. I have painful arches in my feet. When the clock strikes 5 PM every day, my body says "enough".
I've played the employee game many times. I'm sure that there are rare breeds of human that are exceptions to the rule, but my observation has been that unless their name is on the sign outside, they don't care.
A couple of exceptions that immediately come to mind are Bobbin at her present job, and Stitcher when he first started out. No one like that has ever darkened MY door.
I believe that my business will always be the type that "There's more than enough for 1, but there ain't enough for 2"
Everything is payed off. I've put 2 kids through college. The insurance, and "nest egg" are taken care of through my wife's job. I take a couple of nice vacations a year. I never missed a minute of my kids growing up, and now I'm ready to do all the soccer and T-ball stuff all over again with the grandkids.
I still love what I do. I don't plan to give it up anytime soon.
Maybe a better word would be "agressive". I'm just not that agressive anymore.
Believe me, I would never tell you that it's NOYFB ;D
I hope you and others here will always feel free to speak candidly.